freddie Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Hi all I have a Elddis Majestic 185 from Ipswich branch. The step stopped working, and so they fitted a new one in October. The problem is it goes in once on the start of the engine then it stops working, from engine running. when engine is running the switch makes the step go in and out. This should not happen. Marquis Ipswich do not seem to know why this is working this way. They look at it, it works properly then stops working correctly. The last time they fixed it, the engine was running there was a bang and the step went in. Then it stopped working correctly. If you pressed the switch with the engine running the step tried to come out/in, but, only moved slightly. . Now it will not go in when engine starts and will work on switch with or without engine running. The switch is the habitation switch. Any help? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiat Ducato Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 freddie - 2017-12-16 5:45 PM Hi all I have a Elddis Majestic 185 from Ipswich branch. The step stopped working, and so they fitted a new one in October. The problem is it goes in once on the start of the engine then it stops working, from engine running. when engine is running the switch makes the step go in and out. This should not happen. Marquis Ipswich do not seem to know why this is working this way. They look at it, it works properly then stops working correctly. The last time they fixed it, the engine was running there was a bang and the step went in. Then it stopped working correctly. If you pressed the switch with the engine running the step tried to come out/in, but, only moved slightly. . Now it will not go in when engine starts and will work on switch with or without engine running. The switch is the habitation switch. Any help? Thanks Hi very easy, I would say more than likely the relay that controls and switches the power to the step when engine is switched on/off. Habitation steps are fitting with them so when engine is off the switch for the step can be used to open and close the step. The purpose of the relay is - if you happen to leave the step in the outward (extended) position and you start the engine, the power from the engine switches the relay and the step automatically retracts the step. Here is a link to Clive's diagram of the layout, seen this image used a lot on here so I know he won't mind me using it. Best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Fiat Ducato - 2017-12-17 12:37 PM Here is a link to Clive's diagram of the layout, seen this image used a lot on here so I know he won't mind me using it. Best of luck http://www.motts.dsl.pipex.com/Omnistep.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiat Ducato Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Keithl - 2017-12-17 1:02 PM Fiat Ducato - 2017-12-17 12:37 PM Here is a link to Clive's diagram of the layout, seen this image used a lot on here so I know he won't mind me using it. Best of luck http://www.motts.dsl.pipex.com/Omnistep.htm Cheers Keith forgot to copy and paste it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 You're all a clever bunch of chappies aren't you? Never ceases to amaze me what someone knows and is happy to impart. Well done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Freddie has not said how old his motorhome is, but I’m guessing that he has a (2016?) Marquis-marketed version of the Elddis Autoquest 185. If that’s correct, the step will be the Thule-branded single-step fold-out type shown about 1-minute into this video-clip. The advice on Clive Mott-Gotobed’s webpage relates to Omnistor-branded steps and, although the designs and operating principles are similar, Thule-branded equivalents are not identical to their predecessors. This 2015 forum thread discussed step problems http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Retracting-steps-failure-/39522/ and this webpage https://www.thule.com/en-gb/gb/motorhome-accessories/steps/thule-single-step-12v-_-thule%20step%2012v%20460%20new has links to downloadable User Manuals and Spare Parts files. As Marquis Ipswich fitted a new step a couple of months ago (and the motorhome is probably still under warranty) whatever the cause of the present problem it’s Marquis’s responsibility to resolve it. (My Rapido motorhome has a Thule electric slide-out step with two separate operating switches, one extending the step and the other retracting it. If it has been extended, the step will automatically retract when the vehicle’s engine is started. I assume that pressing the manual ’step extend’ switch when the Rapido’s engine is running would (logically!!) not cause the step to extend, but I’ve never felt the need to experiment. I normally do not rely on the step automatically retracting and, if I’ve not manually retracted the step when I start the engine, I always check via the mirror that the step has actually retracted. Having seen a motorhome drive through a busy French town with its step sticking out like a scythe, it’s something I really want to avoid happening.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddie Posted December 17, 2017 Author Share Posted December 17, 2017 Many thanks for that it seems that Marquis are not able to do this, Even after four attempts on under a year old van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddie Posted December 17, 2017 Author Share Posted December 17, 2017 Yes it is the one you say. I agree that Marquis should put it right and yes they fitted a Omnistor not the other one. Four attempts later still not working more than twice. and the van was under a year old thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 This Wikipedia entry gives the history of the Thule Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Group and it will be noted that Omnistor was acquired in 2005 and RV-related products were branded “Thule” from 2009 onwards. Some products (eg. awnings) are still dual-branded “THULE Omnistor” and the steps are sometimes advertised as “Thule Omnistep” (as in this advert) http://www.rainbow-conversions.co.uk/steps/omnistep-dropdown-12v-550-alu-electric-380-p.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIw8v2mIaT2AIVp7DtCh2DSAT8EAQYAiABEgLCQ_D_BwE despite only carrying the THULE brand-name. I would have thought your 2016 motorhome would have been factory-fitted with a current model THULE-branded step and I’m a mite wary of the consequences if (as I understand happened) Marquis fitted a replacement step carrying the “OMNI-STEP” name. As will be seen from the two attached photos, there can be little or no visual difference between equivalent “Thule” and “Omni-Step” steps, but if Marquis has replaced a new-model Thule step with an old-model Omni-Step step, there MIGHT be conflict between the ‘new’ operating electrics and the old-model step. You might try telephoning Rose Awnings at Poole for advice, as they have been marketing Omnistor/Thule products for many years http://www.roseawnings.co.uk/ and there’s also a Thule centre in Clevedon http://www.contactnumberservice.co.uk/organisation/thule-ltd/ Causes of a step not retracting when the motorhome’s motor is started might be a relay fault/failure, a fuse failure, an operating-switch problem, or a wiring fault. Your step can be manually extended and retracted successfully, indicating that its motor is working OK. It's reasonable then to assume that the problem is in the electrical system and (as Fiat Ducato advises above) the prime suspect would be the relay that triggers step-retraction. But Marquis have had four goes at sorting this problem out, and as one might expect checking/replacing the relay to be the first approach to take, the fault may be more subtle. As your motorhome is still under warranty and Marquis have not been able to fix the fault, you need to ask Marquis what they now plan to do. I don’t know if Elddis has fitted anything (eg. a buzzer or dashboard-light) to warn the driver if the step has failed to retract properly when the vehicle’s motor is started, but the present failure of your step to retract automatically is potentially dangerous and you should emphasise this strongly when speaking to Marquis. I’m sure Marquis will accept that it’s their responsibility to sort this out once and for all, and that it’s unacceptable for you to be repeatedly returning your motorhome to them to resolve this type of fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Derek, I don't wish to divert attention from Freddie's ongoing problem with the electric step but, as I am about to decide on having a cassette step fitted to my Hymer, could you just confirm whether those branded as 'Omnistep' are the same as those branded as 'Thule' or are there significant differences in, say, quality of build/operation? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 If the Wikipedia entry for the Thule Group is accurate, steps originally labelled “Omni-Step” would, from 2009 onwards, carry a “Thule” label instead. In principle then, if a step has an “Omni-Step” label on it, it will have been manufactured quite a few years ago. Consequently, if a step is currently being advertised as an “Omni-Step” and is labelled as such, you might want to check when it was made. (I’ve no idea whether an ‘old’ Omni-Step might be better engineered than a ‘new’ Thule-labelled equivalent, but the date of manufacture MIGHT have some inpact on the step’s warranty.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 This thread appears to be deviating from the original problem posed by Freddie. If I understand the original post correctly Freddie's step will only retract once when the engine is started, and not subsequently. At this stage the manual control functions to extend and retract (lower and raise) the step even when the engine is running. This suggests to me that the auto retract relay is either faulty, or more likely not receiving a supply. In normal operation if the manual extend (lower) button is pressed, while the engine running the step will move slightly until the internal limit switch and subsequently the relay operate. At this stage the step motor will have 12V +ve applied to both wires and consequntly will stop. Releasing the manual switch will apply 12V -ve to one side of the motor, which will then wind back in until SLIGHTLY after the limit switch operates, and releases the relay. At this point the step will be in it's resting state with 12v -ve connected to both sides of the motor. I have intentionally used capitals for the word "slightly". To ensure that the step retracts fully, a 2200 mfd capacitor is connected across the relay coil. This supplies the relay for a short time after the limit switch has operated, and ensures that the step retracts fully when the engine has started. However this means that the step motor stalls at the end of step travel. A stalled motor will take much more than normal operating current. Standard step diagrams issued by Omnistep show the manual step switch supplied from the habitation battery, while a supply conrolled by the ignition switch is used to supply the relay and motor for the auto retract function. To cater for the stalling current both supplies are normally fused at 25A. Such highly rated supplies are not easy to find or tap into on the base vehicle. (On my own PVC a 10A fuse had been replaced with one of 25A rating in order to obtain the step retract supply.) Given the above may I suggest that on Freddie's vehicle it is possible that the auto retract supply fuse has blown, probably because of inadequate rating to cope with the step motor stalling current. If the supply was obtained in a similar manner to that on my vehicle, I would not recommend simply uprating the fuse. That is a dangerous practice, and could breach the Motor Vehicles Construction and Use Regulations, which require all conductors to be suitably fused. My own solution was to modify the circuit slightly so that all step motor power is supplied from the habitation battery via the standard 25A fuse, and only the relay coil is supplied via the ignition controlled supply, the vehicle fuse being replaced with one of the specified 10A rating. While Clive Mott's step digram is often quoted, I cannot agree with the wiring colours that he shows. On my PVC and on all diagrams that I have discoverd, the step motor has orange and violet wires. Making the orange wire positive retracts the step. The limit switch is connected to grey and brown wires, the latter being connected to 12V -ve, and the grey wire to the relay coil, but the polarity of these last two wires is not critical. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 The link to Clive Mott-Gotobed’s Omni-Step-related webpage was available well before the Out&AboutLive forums were created in 2005, so it’s not too surprising if the wiring colours Clive quoted back then have changed. In (I think) 2006 I replaced the manually-operated slide-out Omni-Step 400mm step fitted as standard to my Hobby motorhome with an electrically-operated version. I used the wiring diagram that came with the step rather than follow Clive’s guidance, but I do know that the colours of the wiring on the replacement step did not match the colours shown on Clive’s diagram. (I still have the original manual slide-out step - though not the mounting frame. The step is of no use to me, so if anyone would like it please PM me. No charge, but it’s too heavy to post so arrangements would need to be made to collect it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddie Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 Thanks for that. Marquis are just saying bring it back . As for compo, they think it is acceptable to say it is fixed then you find out not fixed. I have told them that this is not fit for purpose. As they cannot fix it. One of There fitters said I do not know where all these black wires go! They should have been looking at the coloured wires. I am waiting for the boss Gavin to come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddie Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 Thanks that is what I thought shame Marquis cannot come to same Idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 The 1st of the two attached photos is of a Thule step and shows the different colour wires emerging from the motor-unit. The step will come with fitting instructions, but additional parts will be needed when automatic retraction is required or a warning light/buzzer is to be fitted. The instructions include wiring diagrams (example in 2nd photo) but the instructions/diagrams are, in any case, downloadable from Thule’s website. There are quite a few on-line discussions about Thule/Omnistor steps not operating properly (example here) http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Omnistep-electric-step-problem/23252/ but there’s never going to be any certainty how a particular motorhome manufacturer will have installed the step and (in freddie’s case) no knowing what Marquis did when the original step was replaced. The relevant Elddis motorhome handbook includes a basic wiring diagram, but an electric step is not shown. Nor is there any reference to an electric step in the handbook’s text. The handbook does, however, include the following advice... "Question. I Am Unhappy With The Service I Have Received From My Retailer/Service Centre, Where Do I Go From Here? Answer. We would recommend that you write to your Retailer/Service Centre, detailing your problems and requirements, requesting a response explaining how they will resolve your complaint. A copy of your letter can also be forwarded to Elddis Customer Care Department, quoting the serial number of your motorhome and the name of the Retailer/Service Centre. Please be assured that we will assist your Retailer/Service Centre in resolving any problems." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 The diagram provided by Derek is interesting, as I note that it does not show or suggest any fuse value for the 12V ignition controlled supply. The fuse rating for the habitation battery supply is shown as 20A. I also note that the wiring diagram / sketch suggests that the relay is located near the ignition switch and remote from the step. This would have made my modification harder to implement, and it results in the motor current for raising the step via the switch, running back and fore through the van wiring. In my professional opinion that is not best practice. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 In case the electric push buttons are in default which can happen and happens be aware that you are familiar whit the manual over ride to retract manually. In case you have to pass the chunnel tracks which are narrow on your rear track tyres. The same goes for your electric elevated beds which is even more important they will prevent you driving. I have an italian P2000 Step whit small openings and a decent widht which my dog like very much. And a very nice height to step in and out. If you step out of a NB flair- iveco you can brake your legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Alanb The 2nd attachment to my last posting showing a Thule step wiring-diagram was copied from the installation instructions that can be downloaded from the Thule website. If the information on the diagram is wrong or inadequate, or represents poor practice, you’d best take it up with Thule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-12-19 5:17 PM Alanb The 2nd attachment to my last posting showing a Thule step wiring-diagram was copied from the installation instructions that can be downloaded from the Thule website. If the information on the diagram is wrong or inadequate, or represents poor practice, you’d best take it up with Thule. My apologies Derek. Perhaps I should have said copied rather than provided. Please be assured that in no way were my comments aimed at you. In my PVC the step relay is mounted close to the switch, and this makes the wiring simpler. The Thule diagram merges a schematic and a layout / wiring diagram without any separation. The schematic is fine, but the layout / wiring section seems to remove the relay from the step switch location, and hence as I commented requires more power wires between the two components. As I am sure that you will know, relays are often used to reduce the number, or length of thicker wires. I believe that my comment regarding the lack of a fuse and its size on the ignition accessories supply for auto retraction of the step, may well be relevant to Freddie's problem. As regards your final comment, I do not intend to start a battle with Thule over what may be a simple drawing error. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddie Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 thanks I have done that waiting for the job to be done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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