Motorhome weights - VOSA Technical Officer's view

[Brock]

Given my van's weights and Kev's issues, I emailed VOSA explaining, "...The common advice given is to take the motorhome to a public weighbridge, weigh the vehicle in ‘full touring trim’ [probably the heaviest it will ever be] and then weigh one of the axles. Submitting the weight of the one axle from the gross, gives the weight of the second axle. The motorhomer then takes action if the figures show an overload - either by ditching excess baggage or uprating the suspension or licence if possible..."

 

I asked for VOSA, "what steps motorhomers should take to comply [on weight] and your attitude to compliance."

 

The Technical Officer's response was,

 

"Our advice would be the same as you have received in that the vehicle should be weighed with a full tank of fuel full tank of water and all that you would normally carry but we would recommend that a tolerance is used to allow for the items you may pick up on route the different foods you may carry etc.

 

If stopped by any enforcement agency consideration would be taken especially if you have a recent weigh bridge ticket that shows you have done everything to comply. We are aware of the variations between weigh bridges but we will not tolerate people that have checked the weight but continued even though the weight was clearly over the maximum permitted weight for that vehicle."

 

I didn't say anything abut a full tank of water in my query so I presume that as long as you weigh in full touring trim [which I did mention], which in my case would be 20l of water [i have a 20l cut off valve], then it would be acceptable.

[StuartO]

Useful, thank you for posting it.

 

I've never been stopped in my MH for a weight check either at home or abroad but like many people I travel close to being at or over maximum weight, so I ought to be careful.  The MH has never objected in any way if it's been overloaded, although I did burst a rear tyre twice on my first MH out of ignorance about payload limitations.

 

A useful supplementary question would be what do they do to you if they do stop you and find you overweight?  Do they have a threshold at which they take action (like requiring you to shed weight or imposing a fine) or more severe action like banning you from continuing your journey altogether? 

 

If your are only marginally overweight would they let you empty the water tank or abandon the OH by the roadside and tell her to take a taxi?  Would they force you to discard your precious cargo of wine if necessary?

 

[Brock]

Stuart,

 

It will be down to the Examiner and possibly the Courts. My observations suggest they will not allow you to proceed without correcting the overload unless there is an overriding safety issue. I've seen motorhomes dumping water, caravan possessions left on the roadside [presumably to be collected later in the day] and they once helped by son to move a pallet of tiles 2' to correct a slight overload on his commercial van's rear axle.

 

This document is a useful guide.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/226566/Guide_to_Graduated_Fixed_Penalties___Financial_Deposits.pdf

 

To save you reading it, it says, "An element of discretion will be required by the Examiner in certain circumstances, but this will be exercised in a proportionate and fair manner. Decisions will be proportional to the risks to individuals and to the wider public and to the seriousness of any breach."

 

The above is for commercial vehicles. Have a look at page 237 in the document below which may be relevant to motorhomers:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/598371/enforcement-sanctions-policy.pdf

 

The Introduction on Page 6 of the above document says, "This document provides the policy framework within which DVSA examiners will work thus ensuring a consistent and best practice approach. This is not a legal document and must not be treated as an interpretation of the relevant legislation, which only the courts can provide." To that I can add I'm not a lawyer!

[plwsm2000]

The DVSA has published a non-statutory code of practice that provides best practice guidance for DVSA examiners conducting vehicle weight checks.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/weighing-vehicles-for-enforcement-consolidated-code-of-practice/consolidated-code-of-practice-enforcement-weighing-of-vehicles

 

This goes into the details of how the weighbridges are set up and guidelines on accuracy etc.

Might be useful.

Phil

[dougal]

If you read all the guidelines for inspectors, it is very clear that for private users a 5% overload is only a verbal warning. So a 3500kg van could be 175kg heavy !!!XXX???

[plwsm2000]

dougal - 2017-03-31 8:33 AM

 

If you read all the guidelines for inspectors, it is very clear that for private users a 5% overload is only a verbal warning. So a 3500kg van could be 175kg heavy !!!XXX???

 

 

Yes but the 5% also applies to the axle weights. In theory you could be below the 3500kg MAM limit but 101kg over the 2000kg rear axle limit and still be fined!

[StuartO]

dougal - 2017-03-31 8:33 AMIf you read all the guidelines for inspectors, it is very clear that for private users a 5% overload is only a verbal warning. So a 3500kg van could be 175kg heavy !!!XXX???

 

That's comforting to know! 

 

Since they just warn you for a 5% overload and can only prosecute if they weigh you on a proper weighbridgee site, from where you could presumably organise a hire van to unload on to if necessary, the worst case scenario would be receiving a Prohibition by the roadside, for serious overloading. 

 

I wonder if your breakdown service would recover you in those circumstances?

 

[Bop]

Brock, this is a really good thread and it's certainly food for thought.

 

VOSA and DVSA guidelines aside, I'm going to dig out our insurance documents tonight to see what stipulations on MH masses are written in my insurance policy.

 

In a world where insurance companies are rigidly abiding by their own T&Cs then I'm not entirely sure if a company will pay out for a £20,000 claim (as an example) when the MH is overloaded in some form, assuming that the insurance company can establish the weight of the MH during the claims investigation process.

[Brian Kirby]

StuartO - 2017-03-31 9:30 AM

dougal - 2017-03-31 8:33 AMIf you read all the guidelines for inspectors, it is very clear that for private users a 5% overload is only a verbal warning. So a 3500kg van could be 175kg heavy !!!XXX???

 

That's comforting to know! 

 

Since they just warn you for a 5% overload and can only prosecute if they weigh you on a proper weighbridgee site, from where you could presumably organise a hire van to unload on to if necessary, the worst case scenario would be receiving a Prohibition by the roadside, for serious overloading. 

 

I wonder if your breakdown service would recover you in those circumstances?

But why should they? I'm guessing, but I assume that somewhere within the breakdown contract will be words to the effect that the vehicle is to be properly maintained and operated within legal parameters. Overload, being a condition directly caused by the owner, I would assume, would place the vehicle outside the breakdown contract terms. I would therefore expect to have to pay for the service, not to get at no cost.

[plwsm2000]

Brian Kirby - 2017-03-31 11:18 AM

StuartO - 2017-03-31 9:30 AM

dougal - 2017-03-31 8:33 AMIf you read all the guidelines for inspectors, it is very clear that for private users a 5% overload is only a verbal warning. So a 3500kg van could be 175kg heavy !!!XXX???

 

That's comforting to know! 

 

Since they just warn you for a 5% overload and can only prosecute if they weigh you on a proper weighbridgee site, from where you could presumably organise a hire van to unload on to if necessary, the worst case scenario would be receiving a Prohibition by the roadside, for serious overloading. 

 

I wonder if your breakdown service would recover you in those circumstances?

But why should they? I'm guessing, but I assume that somewhere within the breakdown contract will be words to the effect that the vehicle is to be properly maintained and operated within legal parameters. Overload, being a condition directly caused by the owner, I would assume, would place the vehicle outside the breakdown contract terms. I would therefore expect to have to pay for the service, not to get at no cost.

I guess there could be a situation where the MH is overloaded with driver and passenger inside but not when no one is onboard (as would be the case if being recovered). I wouldn't like to count on this though!

[Muswell]

Isn't "breakdown" the operative word?

[StuartO]

Muswell - 2017-03-31 1:11 PMIsn't "breakdown" the operative word?

 

I'm sure that's right, especially if you have gone for one of the cheaper breakdown services.

 

The amount by which a MH is likely to be overweight (excluding someone who has decided to carry an enormous amount of booze home to UK) would probably be within the range of what you could unload and/or dump if necessary. 

 

I found myself nearly 200 kg overweight setting off on holiday once - and that was with the OH on board but me dismounted, so something had to go!

 

 

[tonyg3nwl]

Hi, just a small point, if you were obliged to dump some of contents, could local authority then prosecute for illegal dumping????

 

tonyg3nwl

 

[aandncaravan]

I was towing a trailer loaded with a Citroen H van using a Peugeot tow vehicle that was never imported into this country, so not on the VOSA lists.

 

I got stopped by the Police and had to follow the squad car to a VOSA station.

Despite my outfit being legal, I was initially unable to prove it .

I was then told I would get 3 points, a Court appearance/Fine and not be able to continue my journey unless I ditched the load.

I eventually presented evidence to show that the French market Peugeot did have a higher load limit. However, because it wasn't on their lists they didn't know what to do.

 

While my case was being considered I saw a lot of vehicles brought in overloaded. Almost everything from Articulated Lorries to small Vans.

All were prevented from continuing until they unloaded back to under the weight limit, most by getting friends to come with vehicles to take the excess.

A Polish Lorry driver had been there since the early hours and was waiting for another lorry from Poland to take his lorries excess.

 

VOSA eventually half accepted my evidence and decided they wouldn't give me points or prosecute but I couldn't continue as I was, because another VOSA area stopped me with a different 'interpretation' and it came out the 'Manchester crew had let me go'.

I could continue only provided I unload the Citroen H van off the trailer onto a Flat bed.

 

By the time I organised a Flat bed with transfer of load, almost 12 hours had passed from the time of being stopped.

 

 

It wasn't a nice experience and I wasn't overloaded.

 

:'(

[Pete-B]

Surely the 5% means 5% of payload not total weight.

[Brock]

Pete, I put in links to what I think were the appropriate documents. My reading is that it relates to 'EXCEEDING MAXIMUM PERMITTED COMPENSATING AXLE WEIGHT (VEHICLE) – MANUF’S PLATE' or 'EXCEEDING MAXIMUM PERMITTED GROSS WEIGHT - MANUFACTURERS PLATE'.

 

When my son's commercial van is weighed at check points it is on each axle - 5 if he has the trailer - overall weight of the van, and overall weight of the van and trailer.

[aandy]

The 5% tolerance is applied to each of the weights shown on the plate - axle, gross and train.

[StuartO]

Pete-B - 2017-04-03 9:17 PMSurely the 5% means 5% of payload not total weight.

 

I doubt that VOSA are interested in payload, it will be 5% overload of the gross weight.

 

[kevandali]

StuartO - 2017-04-04 12:04 PM

Pete-B - 2017-04-03 9:17 PMSurely the 5% means 5% of payload not total weight.

 

I doubt that VOSA are interested in payload, it will be 5% overload of the gross weight.

So..... if you were to get a new van, off the top of my head... say.... an Auto Trail Apache 632 rated at 3650kg and you accidentally overloaded and actually weighed 3800kg, which is under 5% of the gross weight, then a bit of a 'talking to' is on the cards. (sorry for bringing up the 632 again *-))

[aandncaravan]

No one I saw come in during the long time I was there, were given any leeway at all. They were all dealt with and had to unload to BELOW the limits before they could continue.

As I said above in my first post "All were prevented from continuing until they unloaded back to under the weight limit".

There was no evidence of any 5%.

 

One Motorhome was overloaded on the rear axle only and processed by the Police Officer accordingly.

Only after he was processed did they suggest he could try and rebalance the load to the front of the van. If he could do it without breaching any other limits he would be allowed to continue the journey and the immobilisation order lifted.

If he couldn't he would need to arrange to offload some items.

 

He was successful and they cleared him to continue.

 

I would have suggested that if any disgression was being exercised, 5% or otherwise, they would have given him a chance to rebalance before processing him?

None of the processing I was privy to, one big room, did they give out any warnings or 'let any one off'.

 

 

I guess each station may be run differently, but this one had Police Officers handling all the prosecutions and the VOSA boys handling everything else.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bop]

I've just picked up my copy of the June-17 edition of Practical Motorhome Magazine where on Pages 102 & 103 it highlights the key issues of weight limits and sensible loading.

 

I knew from further investigation that my insurance policy would be null and void if I were to operate over the stipulated MTPLM but I didn't realise until I read the article that the Manufacturers Warranty would also be invalidated.

 

There's also the mention of a fine up to £5,000 which would not be pleasant for anyone.

 

It's not a bad article in all honesty.

[david lloyd]

It has been suggested that the 5% leeway is to accomodate differences in the accuracy of individual weighbridges - which may well be true - but the VOSA weighbridges, I would have thought, will be calibrated to a finite tolerance in all likelihood. So, VOSA staff would have no need to rely on the inaccuracies of third party weighbridges or make any special provisions and are, as Alan has indicated in his first hand account above, more likely to just process anyone over the plated limits of their vehicle regardless of whether the individual has or has not had it weighed elsewhere.

 

David

[kevandali]

Oh ....... Crap :-D 

[mgnbuk]

http://www.caravantimes.co.uk/news/holidays/caravanners-be-warned-as-police-operation-cracks-down-on-unfit-leisure-vehicles-$21387406.htm?source=newsletter

[Brock]

Wow, looks like the guys had a good day catching caravanners and those towing railers.

 

The link didn't work for me but I found the article by doing a search. Here is the article is courtesy of Caravan Times.

 

 

Police in Essex have been sending out an early warning to leisure vehicle drivers ahead of the Easter holidays to make the necessary weight and safety checks before starting their journeys during a recent caravan and trailer operation. According to the Chelmsford Weekly News, two drivers in overweight vehicles received £600 fines and 32 other drivers were stopped by police during the first vehicle towing operation of the season.

 

Working with the National Vehicle Crime Intelligence Service and Central Registration & Identification Scheme, officers ran the operation at Junction 19 of the A12 trunk road, Chelmsford, near Boreham Services Lorry Park.

 

During the day of action, 34 vehicles were stopped, 21 of which were towing trailers and 11 were towing caravans. Of the vehicles stopped towing caravans and trailers, only 12 were clear of any faults. Two overweight 3.5 tonnes vehicles were found to be 15 per cent over the maximum authorised mass when weighed and the drivers fined £600. A number of vehicles' tyres were also over the five year recommendation and a total of eight vehicles had breakaway cables that were incorrectly fitted, or none fitted at all. Some vehicles towing caravans had no extendable mirrors.

 

The driver of a trailer with a seized braking system was given a £100 fine and 3 points on his licence for driving a vehicle in a dangerous condition. Of the vehicles that were stopped, four drivers were issued with fines and three licence points after it was discovered they did not have the correct category BE licence.

 

Gary Winfield, Roads Policing Constable from the Casualty Reduction Team, said: "This was a successful day and we can be satisfied that in all these cases, appropriate and robust action has been taken. There are a number of measures that people can take to ensure they are driving safely while towing caravans and trailers. If these measures are not taken, there can be serious and quite frankly tragic ramifications for all involved. We will be carrying out more of these checks, so please heed the warning and ensure you are being responsible on the road."