P&O ferries-Unitholders (previously 'Stockholders')

[notdunroaming]

Do any other Motorhomers (or Caravanners) have problems logging on to P&O's Unitholder Website? I log on & hubby's correct name etc. comes up on top of screen but I can go no further as screen totally freezes. I emailed P&O about this last year, they very kindly telephoned, but the only answer they could finally come up with was that it must be my computer! I now know this not to be true as I was told when I eventually had to make a telephone booking, that I was not the only member to have this problem. I have written to them again recently, but have so far had no response. Any ideas?

Think this is the first time I have written on this site, so be gentle with me! Diane

[Derek Uzzell]

Hi Diane

 

I'm assuming that the screen-freezing problem you've described always happens, not that sometimes the P&O Unitholder website works properly and sometimes it does not.

 

My wife's a P&O unit-holder and I've just logged on to P&O's Unitholder website using her unit-holder number and PIN.

 

It seems to be working OK for me. My wife's name appeared at the top of the screen and I tried making some experimental bookings. No sign of screen-freezing and the booking process (though not as intuitive as I'd like) was not problematical.

 

I suspect that P&O's diagnosis - that the problem is your end not theirs - is correct. Although a website like P&O's will have been tested to try to ensure that it cooperates happily with the software that most people run on their home computers, there's no guarantee that individual unit-holders won't experience difficulties.

 

It's possible that the software on your computer (perhaps a security application like a virus-checker) conflicts with P&O's system and that's what's freezing your screen. If every P&O unit-holder were having problems with the Unitholder website, then the fault would clearly be at P&O's end and they could do something about it. However, that's plainly not the case (as I can use the website) and, although you've dscovered that you are not the only one having trouble, I'm guessing that the number of unit-holders having trouble is quite small.

 

If most unit-holders can use the website successfully, unless P&O can identify why people like yourself cannot do so (and this assumes that the reason for the people having problems is the same for all those individuals) it's hard to see how P&O will be able to resolve this.

 

You might try temporarily switching off any security applications you have running (pop-up windows blocker, virus-checker, firewall, etc.) and see if the Unitholder website then works OK. Can't say I'm optimistic that will help, but it's worth trying.

 

(I noticed your other posting back in 2007. Did you ever make it to the USA with your motorhome?)

[David Dwight]

Yes we have had the same problem never been able to get ontothe booking side.

 

But then when we were shareholders we found that Seafrance were cheaper so had'nt used our concession for years.

[Derek Uzzell]

Well, I've just had another experimental go with the P&O Unitholder website and it still works OK for me. I ran through a booking sequence without any screen-freezing and noted that the system automatically inserted my wife's name-details in the relevant 'people travelling' section.

 

Since P&O ceased operating the western cross-channel routes we have not travelled with them and (until yesterday) never had cause to access the Unitholder website. So, where people are having problems, it should not because of lack of usage.

 

Home-computer-wise, I'm using an Apple iMac running Safari as the browser, but most people will be using Windows with Internet Explorer as their browser. It's possible (I suppose) that P&O's system requires the user to have a reasonably recent combination of Windows and IE for the website to work properly, so, if you are a home-computer with old software, that might cause problems.

 

What happens if you experiment by trying to book a crossing via the main P&O website, rather than via the Unitholder one? Does that also freeze the screen when you enter the booking process?

[JohnP]

Have you tried using a different browser eg Firefox of Chrome?

[notdunroaming]

Thank you all so much for your help & advice. I am such rubbish on the computer & had almost fully typed a 'thanks' when it all disappeared! So you might get my comments twice! I do have a Toshiba laptop with Windows 7, which is just over a year old, and I don't recall having any problems with the P&O unitholders site on my previous desktop one, so you might all be right and the problem lies with me!! I did try via Firefox (as recommended by my computer wizard neighbour), but still no good. I will have to try something different this end. All of your advice & coments are very much appreciated. I will let you all know if I do finally get any success!

No, Derek, after all that we never got to America (don't think hubbie really wanted to go anyway) but we did get to Greece finally last Autumn.

Many thanks to you all, Diane

[notdunroaming]

Further to my posts of last couple of days, just to let you know I did actually try to access P&O Unitholders today via 'Firefox' (thought I had previously tried that, but maybe not) and I was able to freely move around the Unitholders' website!! I had, as I think John had commented on, previously been trying to do it through 'Internet Explorer'.

Again, thanks so much for everyone's help, much appreciated.

[mikejkay]

Moral of the story, avoid Microsoft like the plague.

[Patricia]

I also had problems last year trying to access P&O with IE9 on a new laptop using Windows 7 and like you contacted them via email. Their reply was to unistall all vestiges of P&O. This did not work (and still doesn't) and my experience was the same; it displayed the page with my name etc. and then froze. I have no problems using Firefox.

[horvath2500]

hi new on here, i would like to gain some of these 600 p+o concession units, would be grateful if someone could tell me exactly what you would save on a last minute return trip of 4 weeks from hull to rotterdam, with car, 2 kids and 2 adults.

i did miss a sale on ebay as they are transferable, so as we would like to do that journey every year, if its worth trying to get some as its normally around £500.

 

steve.horvath@hotmail.co.uk

[Patricia]

Hello Steve and welcome to the forum. I am a unitholder now and have used P&O for many, many years. However, I will probably not be using them again. Last year I booked two Calais - Dover returns (£25 each way with one journey car, the other m/home) and I am presently in France. When I had to change the return half for the carthe operator wanted to charge me £60+ for one leg! When I had regained my breath I said I had booked last year. She said that that would be ok then and reverted to the original price.

 

I am now in the process of booking to return to England and find that the cheapest fare is now double - £49 BUT I can purchase for less than this on public prices or through the Caravan Club. So why would I book as a unitholder? I have written a rather strong protest letter and, although it will not do any good, at least I felt better!

 

So, in answer to your query, I suspect that P&O are phasing out unitholders, at least for this year. I have just received their unitholders brochure (why do they send it out so late?) so I will look up the fare that you are interested in and tell you what the price would be.

[Derek Uzzell]

Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums.

 

P&O operates a traditional ‘fixed-fare’ system for the Hull/Rotterdam route.

 

The route involves a daily Hull-Rotterdam overnight crossing leaving Hull at 20:30 and a daily Rotterdam-Hull overnight crossing leaving Rotterdam at 21:00 (Monday through Friday) or 20:30 (Saturday and Sunday).

 

There are 8 fare-bands and each single crossing falls into one of these bands; consequently, the length of time spent abroad is irrelevant. There are no apparent benefits or penalties for booking at the last minute.

 

You should appreciate from the above that it’s impossible to tell you how much, in real money, you can save on the return trip you’ve mentioned because the cost of the trip will depend on the date you leave Hull and the date you leave Rotterdam.

 

Standard return fares for the Hull/Rotterdam route attract a Unitholder discount of 40% for a full-concession holder or 20% for a half-concession holder. The return fare would comprise a price for your car+the driver, plus the price of the passengers travelling in the car. There is no charge for passengers 3 years old or younger: passengers 4 years of age or older are charged as adults. There’s a fixed price for a cabin (£196 for the standard cabin) and this is NOT subject to discount.

 

The undiscounted standard return fare for a car+driver varies from £96 to £341, and for each (aged 4 or older) passenger in the car from £18 to £64. If we assume your 2 children are over 3 years of age, a standard return fare (car+driver and 3 passengers) would vary from £150 (£96 + 3x£18) to £533 (£341 + 3x£64). So a 40% discounted-fare would vary from £90 (saving £60) to £320 (saving £213). As you might expect, crossings in July and August and on public holidays are the most expensive.

 

In principle, if you could buy 600 units for £500, obtain a 40% discount on any Hull/Rotterdam return trip, and then sell the units for a price close to what you paid, you would be in profit. Conversely , if you paid £500 for the units, obtained just a £60 discount and then could only obtain £400 for the units when you sold them, you’d be out of pocket. However, as you plan to use the Hull/Rotterdam route regularly, it seems like a worthwhile investment.

[Derek Uzzell]

Patricia - 2013-05-13 8:12 AM

 

...I am now in the process of booking to return to England and find that the cheapest fare is now double - £49 BUT I can purchase for less than this on public prices or through the Caravan Club. So why would I book as a unitholder? I have written a rather strong protest letter and, although it will not do any good, at least I felt better!

 

P&O's fare system could be idiosyncratic in the shareholder days and I recall complaining about being charged more for a cross-Channel return trip than the price a non-shareholder would pay. If I remember correctly, this was because (at that time) a non-shareholder could obtain a reduced fare for a limited-duration-abroad return trip and the reduction exceeded the shareholder discount as the same-duration-abroad trip (under the shareholder scheme) was considered to be open-ended.

 

It was pointed out to me that the shareholder scheme (and the present unitholder scheme for that matter) always produced a fare with a significant and predictable discount over the standard fare, but this did not guarantee that a cheaper fare could not be obtained elsewhere (eg. from a travel agent or the Caravan Club), though a P&O promotional offer, or even through P&O's normal non-shareholder booking system.

 

In those days I could usually find something to moan to P&O about and, when I did, P&O usually gave me a 'sweetener' of some sort (like a free cabin). In fact, it used to be quite diasappointing to travel with P&O, have no complaints and not get a freebie!

[laimeduck]

In the 80's & 90's my Father was a shareholder with 300 P&O concessionary shares in order to get discounted Dover- France ferries for their Car & caravan.

In 1993, he wrote to "The Lord Sterling of Plaistow, CBE", the then Chairman of the P&O Steam Navigation Co., complaining about the fact that the fares had increased so much.

"In 1991 our return fares were £113

In 1992 our return fares were £131

In 1993 our return fares were £150

an overall increase of 33% in two years"

 

He prefixed the letter with the paragraph:-

"I am writing to you direct because otherwise I imagine that I would be pushed off with some stereotyped reply which did not take my point."

 

Lord Sterling did indeed reply, delegating a more detailed reply to an underling who....... produced a very detailed stereotyped reply which blamed the increases on trying compete with the Tunnel on an equal basis?.

 

2 items of note here:-

- Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose!

- Just look at what we paid back then!

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

horvath2500 (Steve)

 

Some follow-up observations...

 

1. Your ebay 'normal' price of £500 seems very high - this recent auction ended up with £150 being accepted.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-Discount-Ferry-Tickets-Holiday-P-O-Ferries-concessionary-units-not-shares-/140956507843

 

2. You might want to study the Unitholder rules shown here:

 

http://tinyurl.com/d2h7mek

 

This rule

 

"To be eligible for your concession, you must be the registered holder of the relevant number of P&O Concessionary Units (i) on the 31 December falling immediately before the date of travel (or on such other date as the directors of P&O Ferries (the “Directors”) shall, by not less than twelve months advance notice, determine), (ii) at the time of application to travel and (iii) at the time of travel."

 

means that, if you obtained the P&O units this year, you would not be able to exploit the related discounts until 2014.

 

3. The FAQ section of P&O's website says:

 

"Can I sell my Units?

 

Concessionary units can also be transferred to P&O Ferries if the owner no longer wants them. The owner will receive a payment for their units. Anyone wishing to make such a transfer should contact Computershare who will process the transfer and payment.

 

Computershare can be contacted at the following address:

 

P&O Registrars

Computershare Investor Services Plc

P O Box 82, The Pavillions

Bridgwater Road

Bristol

BS99 7NH"

 

I can't easily find out what's involved in transferring units from one individual to another (I assume it's actually practicable to do this!). It's something you'd be wise to ask P&O about as charges might be involved.

 

[Patricia]

Steve

 

The very cheapest fare quoted by Derek finished at the end of March until the end of September so probably not much use to you. If you want to go for 4 weeks and you have children I imagine you need to travel end of July until towards the end of August. I have worked out two scenarios for you:

 

1. If you had travelled tonight using the unitholder priviledges it would work out as follows:

K crossing both ways - £168 + passengers £93 = £261 x 40% =£104.40 theoretical saving = £156.60 plus cheapest cabin £196 = total cost £352.60. However, the public price is £419 so you would only really have saved £66.40, not £104.40.

 

2. Main school holiday time B crossing both ways £341 + passengers £193 (3 x £64) = £533 minus 40% (£213.20) plus cabin £515.80 (total unitholder price). However, the public price works out to £566 so real saving only £50.20, not £213.20.

 

I hope the above makes sense. Unfortunately you did miss a bargain price offer from £119 each way for two people including cabin but may not have been available in the main holiday period anyway and it had to be booked by 30th April.

 

Still at least you would save something, not like my quotes where I would have to pay considerably more and stand out of the money for the return journey until next year (I already have a return to France booked for this summer) as under the scheme you can only book return crossings, not singles. There is one more perk though - if you have to change your crossings there is no amendment fee.

[Wills Wagon]

I too couldn't book Dover to Calais using Microsoft either. So I wrote to P&O in April. Mr Lelean replied in a grammatically poor letter that neither Google or MS Explorer 9 is compatible with their system. But when I book as a member of the public with Explorer 9 all works perfectly well. As probably 90% plus use these two systems I conclude that P&O want to get rid of the Unitholder concession. They helpfully suggest changing my browser to Mozilla Firefox but why should I?

The cheapest fare in June for a 25 day holiday via P&O was quoted as £124. The CC was £93.50 and the C&CC was £105. All are for fixed sailing times. P&O for fully flexible was £129. Last year using the P&O Unitholder site with no problems we paid £84 in May and £70 in September.

It is not unusual for Clubs to offer cheaper rates and I always check before booking.

[Vernon B]

As it happens - and being quite unaware of this post at the time - I made a booking with P&O today. Like Diane I too could not get onto the Unitholder dedicated page. And like Diane I had the "freeze". Just as I experienced last year. Pity P&O doesn't adequately support Microsoft products!

 

As a result I completed a booking using the "public" website with a view to then contacting an agent by phone to obtain the unitholder discount.

 

On-line I was quoted a £50 each way "saver" fare or a £70 each way "flexi" fare for evening Dover/Calais crossings on the 13 May and 4 July. The agent told me the unitholder price was £60 each way.

 

Now, I hold the full 600 units which should entitle me to a 50% discount on the Dover/Calais crossings. And the paragraphy above ladies and gentleman just about sums up how devious the marketing people of large corporations have become in the art of pricing. Mobile phones, Gas and Electricity, Telecommunications, et al.

 

I've held P&O shares for over 40 years. In the very early days you actually received a 50% discount on the published prices - it was regarded as a reward for loyalty - a characteristic that the marketing people have long regarded as not worth a candle.

 

Of course the agent could readily explain how £60 really was 50% of a "reference" price but had difficulty in explaining to me how many "reference" passengers P&O would get if they were charging £240 return. And his argument that my ticket offered more "flexiblity" than the "flexi" ticket - for which some sucker was paying a £40 premium - wasn't particularly convincing either.

 

And you know what? I'd be quite happy with a genuine 10% discount rather than a 50% con. It might even keep my business

 

We're all just "punters" now. What a sad state of affairs.

 

V

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AnnPaul]

:-D :-S B-) (lol) :-o :-) ;-)

 

Hi notdunroaming (Di & J ) How nice to see you on this site!

 

AnnPaul

[Derek Uzzell]

Out of curiosity, I asked Computershare what is involved in selling/transferring P&O units. This was the reply:

 

"Selling Concessionary Units

 

Concessionary Units can be sold back to the company at a fixed rate of 20p per unit. If you would like to sell your Concessionary Units, please send your request in writing along with your unit certificate to the following address:

 

Computershare Investor Services PLC

The Pavilions

Bridgwater Road

Bristol

BS99 6ZZ

 

Transfer of shares

 

To transfer the shares, you will need to complete a Stock Transfer form and return it to us along with the valid unit certificate. The form can be downloaded from our website, by visiting:

 

Stock Transfer form

 

You will need to scroll down the list of forms available and select ‘Stock Transfer form’ by clicking on the Acrobat icon on the right hand side. Please follow the instructions for the completion of the form, print and send it to us at the address above.

 

On receipt of the completed documentation, we will be pleased to transfer the shares as instructed. We confirm that no charge is made by us for this service."

 

So, if anybody wants to sell a 600-unit allocation back to P&O, they will get £120.

 

It's evidently possible to transfer units between individuals at no charge to the current unitholder. In Steve's case, although ball-park savings can be guesstimated (as Patricia and I did above), it needs to be remembered that, if he bought units in 2013, he could not obtain unitholder fare discounts until 2014.

[Patricia]

That is interesting Derek for, if my memory serves me right, that was the original offer price when the shares changed to units. However, I do not remember having a unit certificate, only a share one, and if I have I have no idea where it might be! Can you remember when this change happened?

 

I eventually received a very conciliatory email from P&O re my pricing complaint, very nice but of little effect! However, there is an admission that prices have risen. Wow! But, they underline the fact that the FULL fare would be £199 so unitholders are getting 50% off that. Not a very competitive fare though when compared to the other routes and offers available - even more expensive than the western channel routes which are much more convenient for many people.

 

The reply:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Ms ......,

 

Thank you for your e-mail concerning the brochure and in particular the pricing of the Unitholder fares.

 

Firstly let me apologise for the lateness of the supply of the brochure.

 

Please be assured that all points are passed to the relevant department managers for their attention in order for these to be addressed so that the service we expect for our clients can be given.

 

On this occasion it appears that the cheapest fare available for a standard return after the discount has been applied would be £99 return for a motor vehicle. This I do appreciate has increased since last year but am aware that these prices have not increased previously.

 

It may be possible to find a tourist reservation, Unitholders can get a 5% discount from these fares, which are priced less however would attract different terms and conditions.

 

A tourist reservation is based on demand led pricing and would increase nearer the date of travel and when space becomes less. Once booked if you then change the booking this will attract the new fare as applicable and be charged accordingly.

 

In addition to these charges an administration fee of £20 would be charged if the booking is amended. The tourist fare is also based on travelling on the sailings as booked, should it be preferred to have more flexibility a £20 charge each way would be added to the fare which would allow the traveller to arrive for a crossing up to 4 hours each side of the original booked time.

 

A Unitholder fare however is based on the standard brochure fare and would only differ if the tariff changes. Therefore whenever you make a booking the price will remain the same, if you also change the booking or arrive late at the Port the only difference of charge would be if the tariff now travelling on was different.

 

There is no administration charge on Unitholder reservations.

 

I hope the above explains the pricing system more fully when deciding which is the best for you, should you wish to advise of the travel dates or supply a contact number then I will be pleased to assist further in trying to find the best price for you.

 

In the meantime I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for bringing your comments to our attention, and we do hope that this will not deter you from travelling with us again in the future.

 

If we can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us in writing at the above address, or by e-mail at the following address: customer.services@poferries.com

 

Yours sincerely

 

Customer Services

Customer Contact Centre

 

I have printed the reply in full so that the person interested in buying units has more information - most of this of course is well known to me, particularly no charge for changing sailings etc. I notice that the public charge has now increased from £10 to £20.

 

 

 

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Patricia - 2013-05-18 9:30 AM

 

That is interesting Derek for, if my memory serves me right, that was the original offer price when the shares changed to units. However, I do not remember having a unit certificate, only a share one, and if I have I have no idea where it might be! Can you remember when this change happened?

 

The change from stockholder to unitholder was in early-2006.

 

A Concessionary Units certificate was issued to P&O concessionary shareholders who opted for Units - I know that was the case because I've got my wife's Concessionary Units certificate (dated 16 March 2006) in front of me as I type this.

 

The arrangement in 2006 was that concessionary shareholders would receive £1.20 per share for a complete trade-in, or £1 per share if the 'keep the perks' option was chosen. Presumably that's why one would now get £0.20 per Unit.

[Patricia]

Derek Uzzell - 2013-05-18 12:47 PM

 

Patricia - 2013-05-18 9:30 AM

 

That is interesting Derek for, if my memory serves me right, that was the original offer price when the shares changed to units. However, I do not remember having a unit certificate, only a share one, and if I have I have no idea where it might be! Can you remember when this change happened?

 

The change from stockholder to unitholder was in early-2006.

 

A Concessionary Units certificate was issued to P&O concessionary shareholders who opted for Units - I know that was the case because I've got my wife's Concessionary Units certificate (dated 16 March 2006) in front of me as I type this.

 

The arrangement in 2006 was that concessionary shareholders would receive £1.20 per share for a complete trade-in, or £1 per share if the 'keep the perks' option was chosen. Presumably that's why one would now get £0.20 per Unit.

 

Thank you for that explanation Derek. I am not surprised that I remember very little about this change over as my husband died on 20th March that year so I had much official paperwork to sort out. I do remember a lot of to-ing and fro-ing correspondence sorting this out but I don't remember receiving any money, although I obviously must have done. I do remember having a lot of problems with officialdom as everything was in joint names. The worst culprits for sorting problems were my bank, Sky (which comes under Scottish law and demanded a legal document which does not exist in England so I had to pay a solicitor to prove that!) and Santander who demanded about £90 to change the names on the shares. So maybe joint names is not such a good idea!

[lennyhb]

We had the P&O shares but cashed them in when the change to unit holders took place. In the early days the discounts were well worth having then they gradually went downhill. We took the cash as we had not used the discount for well over 5 years always found cheaper crossings elsewhere.