arthur49 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 We head for mainland Europe shortly and the hot water feed to the shower is faulty. The pigtail from the shower tap is push fit to the supply pipe but keeps springing loose. Its fitted correctly but it seems the connector on pigtail is flawed - can't seem to cope with hot water! Or the pipe tolerance is flawed - does not appear damaged. Problem is dealer can't look at van for a few weeks. I can't get at the underside of tap - looks like complete shower panel on which it is mounted needs to be removed - so I can't DIY replace either the pigtail or the tap without major structural work! Has anyone tried a temp solution eg silicone the pipe into the connector .... or use an adhesive? Van is an Aquatrail , sorry Autotrail, V-line 635SE, new in Feb 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 If it's fairly accessible try this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Self-Amalgamating-Tape-Repair-Rubber-Waterproof-Sealing-Insulation-19mm-x-10m/253483464225?hash=item3b04cab621:g:n3MAAOSwZVlXlemi stretch it as you apply it & don't skimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 witzend - 2018-04-09 10:25 PM If it's fairly accessible try this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Self-Amalgamating-Tape-Repair-Rubber-Waterproof-Sealing-Insulation-19mm-x-10m/253483464225?hash=item3b04cab621:g:n3MAAOSwZVlXlemi stretch it as you apply it & don't skimp Thank you. It never occurred to me. I have some of that - used it for sealing satellite cable/connectors .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Good tip Witzend, you sound like a professional bodger to me, a man after my own heart (lol) (^) . Clicked on the link and for under a fiver ordered a roll for the toolkit. Ta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 arthur49 - 2018-04-10 8:13 AM witzend - 2018-04-09 10:25 PM If it's fairly accessible try this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Self-Amalgamating-Tape-Repair-Rubber-Waterproof-Sealing-Insulation-19mm-x-10m/253483464225?hash=item3b04cab621:g:n3MAAOSwZVlXlemi stretch it as you apply it & don't skimp Thank you. It never occurred to me. I have some of that - used it for sealing satellite cable/connectors .... However, it may not cope with hot water under pressure. An alternative might be, depending on accessibility, to put a cable tie around the supply pipe and then pull it up as tight as you can get it (preferably, if you can, first warm the end of the hose in hot water, to soften it) or, if access permits, a small Jubilee clip type hose clamp/clip - providing you don't over-tighten it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 To be honest Arthur, I wouldn't be prepared to accept the dealers obfuscating. It's brand new, only a month or so old and the dealer's telling you he's too busy to spend five minutes fixing what is obviously a warranty issue? I'd be much more vocal and, as I did on one of my caravans where the dealer did the same delaying tactics, I turned up on a Saturday when I knew he had mechanics at work and insisted he fixed it. Showed him the big signs saying how rubbish their service is that I was going to put up in the windows of my parked outside caravan and all of a sudden he found a technician able to fix my problem in 15 mins. Amazing what a bit of forcefulness can achieve. Take it back and embarrass him into fixing it NOW. How far are they from your home? And if you're too polite do do this, I'm sure one of us more nasty and forceful posters would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 There seems to be a plastic clamp spanner who give some preload permanently to the seal. I used it on my chausson who used it on the grey water drain as a tap valve. Take off by hand, get wet and refix underneath again by hand. Have some spares and the od of the pipe tube and his hardness is critcal for the clampin theets, three of them who penetrate the tube. There are different brands. John West is common. Always test afther fitment for leaks. They were originally invented for air pressure.They sit everywhere in your water tubes Buy some tubing also of the size, and cutter. You can not find them in regular store. Call west for the clanps. Hope you wlll succeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Are you sure it it is push fit connector and not a tube leak. Never seen this on the inside shower tap. It could be a frost leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 ColinM50 - 2018-04-10 1:25 PM To be honest Arthur, I wouldn't be prepared to accept the dealers obfuscating. It's brand new, only a month or so old and the dealer's telling you he's too busy to spend five minutes fixing what is obviously a warranty issue? I'd be much more vocal and, as I did on one of my caravans where the dealer did the same delaying tactics, I turned up on a Saturday when I knew he had mechanics at work and insisted he fixed it. Showed him the big signs saying how rubbish their service is that I was going to put up in the windows of my parked outside caravan and all of a sudden he found a technician able to fix my problem in 15 mins. Amazing what a bit of forcefulness can achieve. Take it back and embarrass him into fixing it NOW. How far are they from your home? And if you're too polite do do this, I'm sure one of us more nasty and forceful posters would help. Thank you Colin. I'm forceful but I know the repair is not straightforward. The shower tap needs to be removed complete with pigtails to effect replacement. It is highly likely that the whole panel on which it is mounted will need to come, tap replaced, and panel resealed. (a ridiculous bit of design!!!!) I have spoken to the Service Manager who told me I was probably correct - panel needs to come out. So, van is going in tomorrow as an 'extra' ie not booked in for a specific start but to see if there is an alternative option. If this is going to be a big repair then frankly I don't want it done before we set off. Rather they or I complete a temp fix with full repair when we return. I'm hoping its simple - is the short easily accessible pipe off tolerance - I'm hoping so, making it a 10 minute job :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2018-04-10 3:06 PM Are you sure it it is push fit connector and not a tube leak. Never seen this on the inside shower tap. It could be a frost leak. Definitely push fit problem - just springs apart under pressure of hot water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 ColinM50 - 2018-04-10 1:25 PM To be honest Arthur, I wouldn't be prepared to accept the dealers obfuscating. It's brand new, only a month or so old and the dealer's telling you he's too busy to spend five minutes fixing what is obviously a warranty issue? I'd be much more vocal and, as I did on one of my caravans where the dealer did the same delaying tactics, I turned up on a Saturday when I knew he had mechanics at work and insisted he fixed it. Showed him the big signs saying how rubbish their service is that I was going to put up in the windows of my parked outside caravan and all of a sudden he found a technician able to fix my problem in 15 mins. Amazing what a bit of forcefulness can achieve. Take it back and embarrass him into fixing it NOW. How far are they from your home? And if you're too polite do do this, I'm sure one of us more nasty and forceful posters would help. Apologies, I missed that the van was new in Feb this year. Specsavers?? :-D Yes back to dealer and insist he remedies the fault. He owes you at least that much service in return for your hard earned! You bought a van, you intend using it, is he surprised by that? £50K is a lot to pay for a garden ornament! He should be falling over backwards to ensure you're happy. Have you gone to the top? Further apologies as I've now seen your 15:16 post. That's promising at least, but how long is it before you go. They have (at least) 8 hours per day in which to carry out repairs, so how many days do they have? Talk to the guy when you take it in, and if he still prevaricates talk to the MD - or whoever gives him his pay cheque. Most vans are put together with screws, and removing screws doesn't take that long. I'm not familiar with your van, but I'm finding it a bit difficult to understand why this job should be such a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 In case of the inside shower tap coming out of the panel of whatever connection it should be removed by screws. Apperently you have a spring loaded rubber sealed conector. As used on outside showers on the side wall.. Do a good flush all the time whit this connection. If this is the case my comments above are good school and not relevant to your problem.They are common to rust debris because of the iron in the water itself. But they are very rare inside a shower. they are used on vans on the back. Something is missing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I checked your auto trail v- line 635 SE 2018. Nice Van On ducato. Oh dear nice bath shower cabin whit a thetford toilet nicely in the corner. easely to clean. But to remove the panel is not so easy, maybe the toilet is easy to remove in that case no problem. Your dealer is to blame. And should fix it afther first call. Flush and try again some times whit the pump on and off. There should be no leaks behind the panel. In case they do not drop in shower floor. You are not the only one, many had leaks there and panel removals to repair whit a smile on their face dixit uor club. Have a nice Maiden trip whit your motorhome and contact us if something strange happen whit you are unfamilar whit . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 Well we'll see what the dealer can come up with. The attached photo shows the detached pipe and connector. To Autotrail's credit a lot of pipework and associated connectors are easily accessed from the cassette door with the cassette out! Pity shower tap replacement involves major dismantling ..... crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 Spot the problem. Just keeps coming apart under pressure of hot water. Over to dealer ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanf1 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Shouldn't the pipe have an insert in the end that goes into the push fit? Domestic system have these to stop the pipe being squashed and to make the connection more robust/solid. However, I don't know if that's the case with these MH systems although I would have thought it should be similar. What diameter is the pipe? You can get speedfit insert for pennies, might be worth investigating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 Alanf1 - 2018-04-11 9:07 AM Shouldn't the pipe have an insert in the end that goes into the push fit? Domestic system have these to stop the pipe being squashed and to make the connection more robust/solid. However, I don't know if that's the case with these MH systems although I would have thought it should be similar. What diameter is the pipe? You can get speedfit insert for pennies, might be worth investigating? Its 12mm outside diameter Alan. The connectors are complete, just the one attached to the shower tap pigtail is faulty and unfortunately the connector is a permanent fit so pigtail/tap needs to be replaced - or better, the plastic pipe is off tolerance. Anyway over to the dealer. The receptionist is very helpful and pleasant but the Service Manager needs a personality transplant. After being prompted by Colin and Brian - thank you guys - I believe they are correct, and I took van to dealer this morning, basically saying its new, not been used, and I expect them to bend over backwards to fix this rapidly. I'll name and shame if service from here on is poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Nice clear picture. And a nasty problem you have. And all the Agony whit it. What kind of make are they? What makes the seal. Are their a track record of them, and fitment instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2018-04-11 4:42 PM Nice clear picture. And a nasty problem you have. And all the Agony whit it. What kind of make are they? What makes the seal. Are their a track record of them, and fitment instructions. Thanks. The problem is now the dealer's ..... here's an example and explanation of how they work http://leisurelines.net/12mm-push-fit-equal-straight-push-fit-568-p.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 looking again at picture, you have here a flexi tap tail hose metal covered of a certain lenght. On the top screwed in to the tap end by a flat surface male- female. And a Oring in between That sits behind the wall panel presumably. the other end goes to a john Guest/ Whale 12mm push fit in metal i think. The white rings are protection caps i think. There are no inserts used for good reason seeing the pipe thickness. The hot-cold lines are similar. It looks that the push fit can be screwed off, seeing the hexogonal flats. The seal o- ring sits in a slot at the bottom of push fit and must make contact whit the od of the pipe. Hold in place by the theets which are very sharp. do not put your finger in their. Very interesting about the outcome of it by your dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Ordered the self amalgamating tape that Witzend suggested Tuesday lunchtime and it was delivered yesterday afternoon. Something else for the tool box 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I do not like that tape comment under my comment. And the bottle of red or white even. This is a serious topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 As you have identified they are John Guest fittings, it may be useful to contact their technical dept. to see if they can shed so light on the possible cause.(01895 449233) or email via their website. Their "speedfit" fittings are designed for hot or cold water at pressures much higher than those in motorhome systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 flicka - 2018-04-13 10:43 PM As you have identified they are John Guest fittings, it may be useful to contact their technical dept. to see if they can shed so light on the possible cause.(01895 449233) or email via their website. Their "speedfit" fittings are designed for hot or cold water at pressures much higher than those in motorhome systems. I don't think they are John Guest pies/fittings, I think they are Whale ..... but its been passed over to the dealer ..... they have van for fixing .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 The “John Guest” descriptor tends to be used generically for push-fit connectors irrespective of the company that actually manufactures the fitting. It’s likely that the braided ’tails’ used for the taps/shower fitted by Auto-Trail come with the taps/shower control themselves and there’s an example in the following advert of a braided tail that has a similar push-fit end-connector https://www.caravanstuff4u.co.uk/water-waste/2067-caravanmotorhomereplacementtaptail18bspto12mmpushfit.html It’s sometimes possible to rebuild the internals of a push-fit connector that won’t hold, but the normal procedure would be to replace the complete tail. If there’s a mismatch between the push-fit connector and the pipe that goes into it (eg. the end of the pipe is damaged or its diameter is slightly undersize) it will be necessary to replace the pipe or remove a section of the pipe, and this may prove tricky if access is difficult and/or there is no ’slack’ in the pipework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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