Hymer fan Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 If I fail the medical for the C1 entitlement at 70 Do I just lose the C1 entitlement Or is the whole driving licence revoked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varonda Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 My mate earlier this year had same issue and his licence just got downgraded to a cat B [ I think or is it B1 ] so he's selling the one he's got to fund a smaller unit that fits his licence, no doubt you'll a better explanation soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Hymer fan - 2020-11-05 6:32 PM If I fail the medical for the C1 entitlement at 70 Do I just lose the C1 entitlement Or is the whole driving licence revoked Unless there is some overriding medical reason for having your driving licence withdrawn then you would only lose the C1 [and D1] entitlements. I guess the question is, putting C1 to one side, would you be able to answer the medical / eye sight questions on the 'normal' licence renewal so as not to be refused the licence on health grounds? Of course this all assumes you have no notifiable condition that would warrant DVLA action in the normal course of events in the first instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 varonda - 2020-11-05 7:01 PM My mate earlier this year had same issue and his licence just got downgraded to a cat B [ I think or is it B1 ] so he's selling the one he's got to fund a smaller unit that fits his licence, no doubt you'll a better explanation soon. It is B, plus BE if he had it originally, so he would still be able to tow a large caravan with a large tow car or even a trailer with a 3500kg motorhome as long as the maximum Train Weight limit is not exceeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 I had a ‘grandfather rights’ C1 driving licence entitlement. I’d never exploited this and, when I was approaching age 70 six years ago and needed to renew my licence, as it seemed highly unlkely I’d ever need the C1 entitlement again, I chose to let the C1 entitlement lapse. However - provided I could meet the requiired medical requirements and submitted the necessary forms to the DVLA - I could still have the C1 entitlement reinstated by the DVLA if I so wished and without any driving test being necessary. If the medical examination that needs to be passed to retain the C1 entitlement reveals a problem that will prevent the DVLA from awarding the C1 entitlement (and presumably the doctor performing the tests will advise the examinee when this is the case) the C1 entitlement will have to lapse at age 70 and - if there’s the opportunity to successfully address the medical condition that’s causing the problem - the C1 entitlement can be reinstated later. Information about medical/eyesight conditions that the DVLA needs to be told about can be found here https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-and-driving https://www.gov.uk/driving-medical-conditions https://www.gov.uk/driving-eyesight-rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmac Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 Hi , there was a thread about driving medicals a couple of weeks ago and Derek kindly pointed to the list of ailments that could disqualify one from passing the medical. As an ex carpenter a quick read through the list it proved well above my pay grade but did not answer the question what is the difference between a 3500kg licence and a 7500kg licence. The difference is that someone else tests you rather than you just ticking a box to say you are fit to drive. Surely if you cannot pass the medical for a c1 license you are not fit to drive and that should be that, whatever size the vehicle is. Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 One of the differences is that when you reach 70 you have to have vision on both eyes to retain your C1 rights whereas you can meet the required standard for C1 up to 70 with vision in only one eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 davidmac - 2020-11-06 8:21 PM Surely if you cannot pass the medical for a c1 license you are not fit to drive and that should be that, whatever size the vehicle is. Regards David So maybe all drivers of all ages should take a medical? The some of the medical requirements are based on nominal risks for certain conditions, this is then balanced against the risks when something goes wrong. There is no 100% certain test to show if a person would or would not have a medical incidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 davidmac - 2020-11-06 8:21 PM Hi , there was a thread about driving medicals a couple of weeks ago and Derek kindly pointed to the list of ailments that could disqualify one from passing the medical... That information can be found in the links I provided in my posting of 6 November 2020 8:59 AM above. Regarding HymerVan’s advice on the C1 driving licence entitlement and ‘monocular vision’, this gov.uk link refers https://www.gov.uk/monocular-vision-and-driving and includes a cross reference to this DVLA guide https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/621557/inf-188X1-standards-of-vision-for-driving-cars-and-motorcycles-group-1.pdf The gov.uk webpage makes it clear that having sight in only one eye is not an automatic bar to driving in the UK. Even if a person has monocular vision, evidently it may still be possible to hold a C1/Goup 2 driving licence entitlement. This is referred to in the “Monocularity” sub-section of the "Exceptions for visual acuity allowed by older licences (‘grandfather rights’)" section of this webpage https://www.gov.uk/guidance/visual-disorders-assessing-fitness-to-drive#monocular-vision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 The thinking behind the requirement to have a medical in order to continue driving a heavy vehicle over the age of 70 years is that above this age an increasing proportion of people suffer deterioration of health and faculties, so medical scrutiny becomes an additional requirement. That's also why licences are renewed only for three years at a time above 70. Three score years and ten is historically our reasonable expectation of life on earth and even though average survival is longer than that these days, 70 is still something of a watershed age. I've just turned 75 and I'm certainly feeling the burden. I'm not as agile or strong as I was even if I haven't needed a stick so far. I stopped motorcycling 7 years ago when I recognised that my reaction times were deteriorating but fortunately I still feel able to drive the MH without feeling overloaded in any way and I took a test for ageing drivers offered by my County Council a few years ago and there were no difficulties. Seventy is the age above which many people start to think about restrict their driving or give up driving altogether at their own instigation (and for example I try to avoid driving at night these days and rarely drive more than 250 miles per day at most) but some people know they are struggling or making mistakes but get stubbornly possesive about continuing to drive, some of whom end up causing serious accidents, inflicting injury or death on others. Drivers of heavier vehicle can cause more serious accidents because there is more weight therefore more kinetic energy involved when they crash, which is why they are required to submit to medical examination to renew their licence. Insurers recognise the increased risk which older driver acquire too and increase premiums. Exceptional people can still be good and low risk drivers well over 80 years old but these are the exceptions and most of us should probably be curtailing or stopping driving by the age of 80 if not sooner. It's one thing keeping a little car to pop down to the shops in and quite another keeping a motorhome weighing over 3.5 tons and taking extensive tours in it to unfamiliar areas. DVLA has its own Medical Branch and over the 40 odd years of my medical career they did more detailed research and study and introduced more and more detailed guidance and instructions about which medical conditions affect driving ability and how much. They have increasingly tightened up in order to exclude risks more effectively and the onus has fallen more clearly on to those who want to hold a licence to prove that they are a safe prospect. If something is spotted which raises concerns the individual willoften be required to undertake speialist investigation to dig deeper, But the system is not, in my view, over officious and it's not yet even all that reliable at detecting high risk individuals who don't want to be detected. Applicants for licences can still choose any doctor they wish to do their medical and, for example, this can lead to failures to disclose problems which will not be detected and so the extra investigations which might be ordered do not happen. Applicants are encouraged to use their own doctor but this is not a requirement - and there are also sensible reasons why it should not be. The process of conducting a driving medical, especially on older drivers, to comply with the system properly, is really quite complex and time consuming and doctors who do this work should probably be specially trained and there should also be a system of quality control (for example double checking some examinations by scrutineer doctors) to keep them on their toes. We're a long way from achieving those standads at the moment. So the sensible way to approach this business of renewing your C1 category over the age of 70 for motorhomers is not to bother doing it if you dont need to (as Derek has done) and to at least consider whether you really need to drive a MH over 3,500kg as well. Mine is currently registered for a MAM of 3,900kg but I'm currently considering (because I have a tow bar) down-rating it to 3,500kg and transferring load into a luggage trailer. I still have a C1 Category but I will need to renew again next year when I reach 76. I know I'm OK against the DVLA standards at the moment and I had an angiogram lalst year which showed my coronaries were clean as a whistle, but I'm not without health issues and I take what my GP calls a "shed load" of tablets every day to keep them under control and there is bound to be progressive underlying decline. I've just got to be sensible about it, as do we all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 StuartO - 2020-11-07 9:56 AM Mine is currently registered for a MAM of 3,900kg but I'm currently considering (because I have a tow bar) down-rating it to 3,500kg and transferring load into a luggage trailer. Which goes to show it is all a bit non sensical and little to do with the risk of driving the unit in question. The BE entitlement is retained without a medical and the driver can tow a very large caravan with a 3500mgw tow vehicle up to a train weight of 7000kg +. The Government is proposing to increase the B licence to cover battery powered vehicle up to 4250kg, primarily due to the weight of the batteries. Their own research found there was no perceived road safety implications to doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Just as a side line, my 3yr renewal will be coming up end of December cant remember if I will be informed of this and what the requirements are, any advice please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fesspark Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 I applied for mine as it runs out in december too, had the medical eye sight near perfect, both eyes had cateract ops in the last 2 years. passed o.k.,just waiting for my new licence now, DVLA had not informed me it was due, and as it takes weeks to get it now . the earlier the better to get your forms from the post office and arrange the medical, I used the cheaper version, doctors on wheels and also 4 D in exeter do the exam it cost me £55.00 hope this helps, (I am going on for 82 yrs old.) fesspark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 chas - 2020-11-11 9:05 AM Just as a side line, my 3yr renewal will be coming up end of December cant remember if I will be informed of this and what the requirements are, any advice please. In the following recent forum discussion Robert (fesspark) mentioned problems he had when seeking to renew his C1 licence. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/what-a-mistaka-to-maka-/56602/ In my posting of 28 October 2020 2:01 PM there I said Having checked further, it seems that ALL driving licences expiring between 1 February 2020 and 31 December 2020 had their expiry date extended by 11 months. This link https://www.gov.uk/government/news/expired-driving-licences-automatically-extended-by-11-months advises "...drivers whose photocard driving licence or entitlement to drive runs out between 1 February 2020 and 31 December 2020 will have their entitlement automatically extended from the expiry date, for a period of 11 months. Drivers do not need to apply to renew their licence until they receive a reminder before their extension expires.” So if your (photocard) licence would have expired in December 2020 and its validity has been extended by 11 months, you won’t receive a reminder until about 3 months before a date in November 2021. You might want to check this with the DVLA as I don’t know of a way to confirm on-line that the 11-months extension has been applied to a licence. There is a procedure to check a licence expiry date https://www.gov.uk/check-driving-information but you’ll see that it will not show extensions. Despite what Robert advises, I suggest you be very wary of attempting to renew ‘early’ a licence that was due to expire in December 2020 (and has probably been ‘extended’ by 11 months) unless you’ve had a renewal reminder from the DVLA. Robert’s difficulties resulted from him using the DVLA on-line licence renewal process to apply for a C1 licence-entitlement renewal (which should not be attempted on-line) and seeking to renew an 11-months-extended licence early may well cause the extra 11 months validity period to be lost from the replacement licence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fesspark Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Thank you Derek, I was informed somewhere that health related licences were not covered by the 11 month extension, Guess, not knowing the law under lock down costs some of us, never mind its only about £14 in real terms unless you do not need it after 11 months. fesspark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 https://www.gov.uk/renew-medical-driving-licence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-11-11 3:03 PM Despite what Robert advises, I suggest you be very wary of attempting to renew ‘early’ a licence that was due to expire in December 2020 (and has probably been ‘extended’ by 11 months) unless you’ve had a renewal reminder from the DVLA. Robert’s difficulties resulted from him using the DVLA on-line licence renewal process to apply for a C1 licence-entitlement renewal (which should not be attempted on-line) and seeking to renew an 11-months-extended licence early may well cause the extra 11 months validity period to be lost from the replacement licence. To add my experience to this discussion my license ran out 06/11 at 70 and I still had the pink paper license not having had to renew my license for any reason previously. I received no renewal; notification, didn't know they sent one, so just sent off! I had my medical with Cotswold Medicals ( Drivers Medicals web address https://www.driversmedicals.com/ ) cost £48 and covers country wide. Filled in D2 and relevant bits of D4 and a cheque for £10 sent off by Post Office registered gauranteed next day delivery and received my new photocard licence in post 04/11 dated to start from 03/11 valid for 3 years with full entitlements carried over from my existing license including all inferred categories, i.e. AM, A, B1, B, C1, D1, BE, C1+E, D1+E. Two days later I received a refund cheque for £10 as although I could not find it in the information apparently you do not have to pay for a replacement for paper license at 70. All in all a thoroughly good experience with the DVLA Swansea. Basil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 rayc - 2020-11-07 10:12 AM StuartO - 2020-11-07 9:56 AM Mine is currently registered for a MAM of 3,900kg but I'm currently considering (because I have a tow bar) down-rating it to 3,500kg and transferring load into a luggage trailer. Which goes to show it is all a bit non sensical and little to do with the risk of driving the unit in question. The BE entitlement is retained without a medical and the driver can tow a very large caravan with a 3500mgw tow vehicle up to a train weight of 7000kg +. The Government is proposing to increase the B licence to cover battery powered vehicle up to 4250kg, primarily due to the weight of the batteries. Their own research found there was no perceived road safety implications to doing this. Which in my view makes a mockery of the system, IF it is OK to drive a 4.t+ ELECTRIC vehicle. what the hell is the difference to a driving a 4t+ Diesel?. (Apart from the extra financial cost to those who have to jump the hoops to retain C1). Just part of the rampant ageism that is endemic in many facets of UK society. Insurance, medicine and many other area`s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 rayc - 2020-11-07 10:12 AM ...The Government is proposing to increase the B licence to cover battery powered vehicle up to 4250kg, primarily due to the weight of the batteries. Their own research found there was no perceived road safety implications to doing this. These links refer https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/871591/guidance-category-b-licence-requirements-1.pdf https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/784/pdfs/uksi_20180784_en.pdf It’s worth noting that this is not a ‘blanket’ change as the following extract from the latter link’s text will make plain Amendments to the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999 2.—(1) The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999© are amended as follows. (2) After regulation 7(10), insert— “(11) A person who holds a relevant full licence authorising the driving of vehicles included in category B, and who has undertaken a minimum of five hours training by a registered instructor on the driving of an alternatively fuelled vehicle with a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3,500 kilograms, may drive such a vehicle provided its maximum authorised mass does not exceed 4,250 kilograms, when that vehicle— (a) is being driven for the purpose of transporting goods; (b) is not being driven outside the territory of Great Britain; © has no trailer attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowdriver Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Pertinent to this thread I think: No Medical currently required for C1 extension for 70 and over. Since I am 70 on May 12th I am expecting, as outlined in the comments above, an invitation to renew my licence shortly, with the necessary paperwork. The current general process for renewing is outlined here: https://www.gov.uk/renew-driving-licence-at-70. Note the 11 month extension is no longer applicable since we are past the Dec 2020 cut-off date. Therefore the normal online process can be used to renew your licence except, (as in my case) where you wish to maintain your C1 entitlements to drive a vehicle over 3.5 tons, in which case an paper application needs to be made. As outlined here: https://www.gov.uk/renew-lorry-bus-coach-licence (I do find the reference to "Renew or change a lorry or bus licence" slightly misleading since there are many other vehicles that are over 3.5 tons that are neither buses or lorries, e.g. motorhomes and camper vans. But that is the page you are directed to) Apparently, now, if you are over 45, and because of COVID-19: "Before your licence runs out, DVLA will send you an ‘application for renewal of lorry and bus entitlement’ form (D47P)." and "Because of coronavirus (COVID-19), you currently do not need to provide a medical report (form D4) to apply to renew your licence." On the face of it, therefore, and no doubt temporarily, you no longer need a medical and can simply complete and return form (D47P) and if your application is successful, you’ll get a 1 year licence. (NB Not the normal 3 years). I will contact DVLA today to confirm this and, if confirmed, then cancel my D4Driver's appointment for the medical which is scheduled for next week. Am I misinterpreting something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 I notice that this issue was discussed (at some length) on the MHFun forum a few days ago. https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/renewing-c1-over-70.235229/ This May 2020 article warned of DVLA delays processing C1 driving-licence entitlement applications by motorcaravanners https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/news/dvla-warns-of-long-delays-for-motorhomers-c1-applications The article said There is currently a temporary D4 (medical) exemption in place but this does not apply to (C1) and (D1/101) entitlements included on car licences issued before 1997. The COVID-19 FAQ section of the D4Drivers website https://d4drivers.uk/covid-19-faqs/ contains the following advice Renewing your C1/D1 licence at 70 (Grandfather rights) - Do you still need a medical? Yes, but there’s a catch!- DVLA have confirmed that the 12 month licence extension that HGV/PCV drivers can apply for during COVID-19 pandemic does not apply to drivers renewing their licence at 70. However, DVLA have also advised that there are significant delays in processing D4 medical for drivers renewing their C1 licence at 70. DVLA’s advice to drivers in this position is to renew your car licence online (which can be done if you have a valid UK passport) as they are not accepting paper applications from non key workers, and to renew your C1 licence once we are through the pandemic even if you have to go without it for a period after turning 70*- We appreciate that this is very frustrating for drivers and are pushing for further clarity from DVLA . *Source- https://www.practicalmotorhome.com/news/dvla-warns-over-c1-renewal-delays DVLA have also announced on 1st September 2020 that anyone renewing their driving licence in 2020 now has an automatic 11 month extension to their licence. It is our understanding that they have made this decision due to the backlog they are facing, but they have again confirmed that you can still renew your licence in the normal way by having your D4 medical. In addition to contacting the DVLA, as you have an appointment for a medical booked with D4Drivers you might ask them what the present position is. (When you do get a credible answer, please let this forum know what the answer was and who provided the information.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowdriver Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 So I have just got off the phone with DVLA and D4Drivers. DVLA have confirmed that you DO NEED A D4 MEDICAL REPORT and could not give an estimate of turnaround. "Application in as early as possible" seemed to be the sense of the advice. D4Drivers indicated that their understanding that it was taking 3 weeks but that they did not have a lot of feedback directly from customers, unsurprisingly. The person at D4Drivers, did say that under section 88 of the Road Traffic Act of 1988, if you have sent in the application forms to DVLA and they are snagged up because of COVID you can continue to drive using the C1 entitlement. But they are not in the legal advice business so I'll check further into Section 88, and of course, leave my medical appointment in place. Section 88: here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/695575/inf188x6-can-i-drive-while-my-application-is-with-dvla.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Thanks for the feed-back. The examples given in Section 88 seem to be sufficiently informative for a motorist to be able to decide whether there is any appreciablel risk in continuing to drive while the DVLA processes application forms. (Obviously, if a medical examination identifies a previously unrecognised issue likely to prove problematical when the DVLA receives the application, continuing to drive after the present licence has expired would be unwise.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowdriver Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Just for Information re DVLA turnaround times. I had the C1 Medical on Saturday the 20th February at D4Drivers, sent off the paperwork on Monday the 22nd Royal Mail Special Delivery (next day/signed for, £7.50) and got the licence back today Friday 5th March. So DVLA did their bit in 7 working days, (assuming they are not working weekends, but maybe they are). Better than expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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