eddieandsue Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Can anybody help? I started our Motorhome last week for the first time since December due to ill health, it started first time but it sounded as if the engine was racing and the red light stayed on. I turned it off and then tried again, this time the light came on and went out as per normal, but going down the road on a little run the light came back on again. The battery has been on hookup over winter and ive got a battery to battery charger. On testing the battery with a multimeter it is reading 12.9 without ehu and same with ehu. All the handbook says is take it to a Fiat dealer! Any advice would be appreciated. Sue Croft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 As you mention battery can only assume you mean the red light which shows a battery, this would indicate a fault in charging, and that is normally the rectifier, alternator, or belt driving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Assuming it turns over at a good normal cranking speed a bad connection in the charging system is also a possibility, maybe less likely but also less expensive to fix? Worth having it checked by an auto electrician perhaps ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajohno Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 I had a similar issue a few weeks ago, both engine and leisure batteries were charging as normal with engine running but volt meters and battery charge indicator showed low. I found the issue to be caused by a short, in my case in a rear view camera caused by condensation and a wet winter shorting the circuit board in the camera. I would first check wiring for rodent damage, then switch off all habitation circuits and pull the fuses, see if that makes a difference if it does insert each fuse one by one until the fault re-occurs, remove that fuse and carry out an investigation into that circuit. If it is the original cab wiring at fault a similar process can be used. Hopefully it is just a damp issue that can be resolved with a water dispersant such as WD40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 rajohno - 2021-03-06 7:04 PM I had a similar issue a few weeks ago, both engine and leisure batteries were charging as normal with engine running but volt meters and battery charge indicator showed low. I found the issue to be caused by a short, in my case in a rear view camera caused by condensation and a wet winter shorting the circuit board in the camera. I would first check wiring for rodent damage, then switch off all habitation circuits and pull the fuses, see if that makes a difference if it does insert each fuse one by one until the fault re-occurs, remove that fuse and carry out an investigation into that circuit. If it is the original cab wiring at fault a similar process can be used. Hopefully it is just a damp issue that can be resolved with a water dispersant such as WD40 There appears to be no (or little) problem with the battery voltage. The problem is the red light coming on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Sue, What year is your Ducato please? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmac Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Hi 2nd trip out in my previous motorhome Peugeot based AutoSleeper, half mile after leaving home ignition light came on, pulled over engine was racing. went to local commercial vehicle garage , they found that the positive lead from the alternator had chafed through the insulation and was earthing out. New wire fitted and we were on our way after a couple of hours. Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajohno Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 colin - 2021-03-06 7:17 PM There appears to be no (or little) problem with the battery voltage. The problem is the red light coming on. Sorry I didn't mean the on battery voltage as with mine it was reading as normal with a multimeter across the battery, I meant with remote indications, as they were being dragged down by the short. As davidmac has posted, a short at the alternator caused a similar problem on his MH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddieandsue Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 Hi Keith It is a 2011 Burstner on a Fiat Ducato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Well, somebody has to ask.... ....is this another earth strap issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAlexander Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 This happened to my previous van, an Adria PVC on a Ducati base. Classic symptoms of alternator failure I'm afraid, or non-charging due to wiring issues as previously suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Robinhood - 2021-03-06 10:22 PM Well, somebody has to ask.... ....is this another earth strap issue? Simple way to test is to connect a single jump start cable from the battery NEGATIVE directly to a sound metal part on the engine, such as a lifting eye or engine mount. Thinking about it, Does a Ducato have a negative jump start terminal under the bonnet? if so then as a quick test to save lifting the floor panel connect this to the engine lifting eye as above. Keith. PS And I asked what year to rule out a 'smart' alternator misbehaving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 To the best of my knowledge all Ducato X250 vehicles (mid-2006 onwards) have a ‘jump starting’ positive.(+) terminal in the engine compartment. There should be relevant instructions in the Owner Handbook and a ‘jump starting’ reference in the “Starting the engine” listing in the Handbook’s index. It’s perhaps worth noting that the original posting includes the statement “ ...ive got a battery to battery charger”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddieandsue Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 Hi Keith, yes the engine does have positive and negative points under the bonnet for jump starting. Not sure what doing what you have suggested will tell me? Would I be best to take it to a garage or to an auto electrician. Worried that as a woman I will get ripped off! Sue x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddieandsue Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 Derek, will the Battery to Battery charger have anything to do with it? Also what is an earth strap??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 eddieandsue - 2021-03-07 9:43 AM Derek, will the Battery to Battery charger have anything to do with it? Also what is an earth strap??? This was first raised by Nick who ran hire vans. http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/earth-strap-problems.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 eddieandsue - 2021-03-07 9:37 AM Hi Keith, yes the engine does have positive and negative points under the bonnet for jump starting. Not sure what doing what you have suggested will tell me? Would I be best to take it to a garage or to an auto electrician. Worried that as a woman I will get ripped off! Sue x Maybe someone in your area can recommend somewhere to go, unfortunately the only two places I know in Leicester no longer exist (Nick) or do Fiat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 colin - 2021-03-07 10:00 AM eddieandsue - 2021-03-07 9:43 AM Derek, will the Battery to Battery charger have anything to do with it? Also what is an earth strap??? This was first raised by Nick who ran hire vans. http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/earth-strap-problems.php That would be Nick Fisher aka 'Euroserv'. He is one of MMM's technical panel. Sue, the earth strap connects the engine to the body and completes the electrical circuit from the battery to the starter motor and alternator on the engine. May I respectfully suggest if you are unsure what you are doing that you either call an auto electrician or take your MH to a garage as there are severe consequences if you get things wrong when dealing with 12 volt batteries. They contain a large amount of charge and can do a lot of damage if not treated correctly. PS Do you have breakdown cover and if so does it cover 'At home' call outs? Assuming your MH is at home of course. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 The earth strap provides the negative electrical connection between the engine and the bodywork (as the engine is otherwise largely electrically insulated from the body by engine mounts, etc.) They are well known on the Ducato for deteriorating and providing poor electrical connection (and the vintage of your 'van indicates it could (only could) be an issue). It could cause the alternator to effectively "underperform", (giving the alternator light), and if this is the case, it also tends to try to increase the idling speed to compensate. It is far from certain this is the cause of your problem, but, as above, it is also quite easy to eliminate/diagnose by using a (temporary) additional earth connection by means of a reasonable quality jump-lead (single one) connected between the engine block (Lifting eye has been suggested) and the (standard jump-starting) earthing point in the engine bay. If it does resolve/improve the issue, then replacement of the existing earth strap (or more commonly, addition of an extra one) will be considerably cheaper than an alternator replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Robinhood - 2021-03-06 10:22 PM Well, somebody has to ask.... ....is this another earth strap issue? I also have considered that possibility, but withdrew from posting as other points that I was about to raise e.g. vehicle age, had already been covered. Given the age of the vehicle, it seems possible. The possibility can be checked by connecting a jump lead between starter battery negative and a clean earth point on the engine. However this test is not practicable on a moving vehicle. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Sorry if this has already been said but I have not read through all the posts . The X250 alternator has the battery charging voltage output on terminal B+. The battery lamp is operated via output terminal D+. The D+ terminal is 'shorted' to earth via the alternator diodes when the ignition is on but engine not running [ i.e. the alternator is not producing charging volts]. When the alternator starts to produce charging volts terminal D+ should rise to positive volts and the lamp should go out as there will be positive volts on both sides. It is possible for the alternator to be charging OK but the lamp to remain on if internal diodes in the alternator are faulty. It would be interesting to know if the normal MH functions of the D+ such as fridge 12v operation, leisure battery charging and step retraction on start up are working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 eddieandsue - 2021-03-07 9:43 AM Derek, will the Battery to Battery charger have anything to do with it? Also what is an earth strap??? I've no idea if your B3B charger is a factor - I merely highlighted that you had mentioned it in your original posting as no subsequent reference to it had been made within the subsequent discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddieandsue Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 Hi Keith Rest assured im not touching it!! I just want to try and understand what has happened. Yes I have breakdown cover and it is at home. Didn’t think that sort of thing would be covered as technically I don’t see it as a breakdown. Would a garage know ? I use a local garage for MOT and servicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddieandsue Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 Hi Ray As I have the motorhome on hookup the step etc works fine. Are you suggesting i disconnect the ehu and try the fridge and step whilst on 12v. Obviously the step and fridge won’t work if I start the engine.The step is not automatic, there is a little red light near dashboard telling me step is out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 eddieandsue - 2021-03-07 12:07 PM Hi Ray As I have the motorhome on hookup the step etc works fine. Are you suggesting i disconnect the ehu and try the fridge and step whilst on 12v. Obviously the step and fridge won’t work if I start the engine.The step is not automatic, there is a little red light near dashboard telling me step is out! Disconnect the EHU and see if the fridge can be operated on 12v with the engine running . I wonder if the red light showing the step is out when the engine is started it though switched on by the D+ signal? I would consider the problem to be a 'breakdown' for cover by RAC / AA etc. All you say is "The battery lamp is continually on" and leave the rest to them. That problem could be caused by any number of things and a decent breakdown guy should be able to diagnose it quickly. PS: I have read your original post and nothing in it convinces me that the alternator is working at all. My advise is use that breakdown service, this is the type of thing you pay it for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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