Removing a Hymer Door Hinge

[StuartO]

I have a squeaky habitation door hinge on my 2006 Hymer B674 and I have bought a replacement hinge - but getting the old one off is proving to be a bit of a challenge and I don't want to damage anything unnecessarily.  Has anyone removed one of these hinges?

 

I've got the screws into the door frame loose but the ones into the door are resisting removal - and the hinge seems to have been stuck to the frame (and perhaps also to the door) with something serious in the way of sealant/adhesive.

 

Anyone got any ideas?

[Will86]

Contact Hymer and ask.

 

A rather drastic step surely when a squirt of oil might have worked, but no doubt that's been tried.

[bodach]

Do not use mineral oil such as 3in1 etc. Give a squirt of silicone lube. Not familiar with Hymer but if there are nylon inserts mineral oil makes the problem worse. I had to remove my gas locker door and use heat from hot water to get the hinges apart. This apparently caused by using the wrong type of oil.

[StuartO]

Will86 - 2016-07-26 4:02 PMContact Hymer and ask.A rather drastic step surely when a squirt of oil might have worked, but no doubt that's been tried.

With Hymer in UK it's not that simple (mainly because of the way Brownhills lost the Hymer franchise some years ago) and Hymer AG no longer accept direct approaches from owners, they advise you to contact a dealer.  There isn't the workshop experience or willingness to help owners who haven't bought from the new crop of UK dealers.

 

There is however Peter Hambildon, who has a wealth of experience and knowledge, but he's not always easy to contact these days either.

 

The previous poster's advice about not using WD40 anywhere near nylon bearings because they absorb the WD40 and swell.  That's pretty widely known.

 

I appreciate that you post on the forum with the intention of being helpful but sometimes, when you are perhaps just thinking aloud and jumping in quickly, it might be better to pause for more thought.

 

[Brian Kirby]

StuartO - 2016-07-26 12:20 PMI have a squeaky habitation door hinge on my 2006 Hymer B674 and I have bought a replacement hinge - but getting the old one off is proving to be a bit of a challenge and I don't want to damage anything unnecessarily.  Has anyone removed one of these hinges?

 

I've got the screws into the door frame loose but the ones into the door are resisting removal - and the hinge seems to have been stuck to the frame (and perhaps also to the door) with something serious in the way of sealant/adhesive.

 

Anyone got any ideas?

StuartHaven't needed to do this, but if Hymer won't play, in wonder if the door manufacturer might? Our van has a Baur habitation door, but I believe earlier vans may have had Hartal doors. Do you know whose it is, and if so might it be worth contacting them (even a UK agent of there is one)? AFAIK, the door is delivered pre-hung in the frame, to be installed as a complete unit, so it is a least possible the hinges were set by the door manufacturer.

[StuartO]

Thank for that Brian.  Yesterday I managed to speak to Peter Hambildon, who is an unofficial Hymer repairer who has a lot of experience.  He told me that some Hymers have hinges with a flange on the rear of the hinge plate which is set into the door frame and riveted in, so that the screws I have loosened are not the main holding fasteners.  The replacement hinge I bought has just a flat plate.  Not sure at the moment how to proceed.  The alan key machine screw into the door itself apparently fastens into a non-captive nut, so that has to be prevented from slipping down inside the door as the machine screw is removed.  Fortunately I haven't tackled that one yet.

 

This is one of those jobs where both force and caution are required!

 

[Will86]

StuartO

 

"Anyone got any ideas?"

 

You asked the question ... I replied.

 

PS I wasn't the only one to offer a lubricant as a suggestion.

 

I note your comments, thank you.

 

Will

 

 

 

 

 

[Brock]

Peter Hambilton has partially retired is what I was told. Haven't visited his premises for three years now. Great guy with a great team. Solved problems in a practical way by fixing things rather than just replacing. My sink cracked around the plug. Hymer UK - which was in its death throes at the time - quoted over £200 plus labour to replace. Peter charged me £40 including labour.

[StuartO]

Brock - 2016-07-27 7:36 PMPeter Hambilton has partially retired is what I was told. Haven't visited his premises for three years now. ...

 

That bit's not true, Peter did a habitation service on my MH just over a year ago - but he is now working part time.  I rang him yesterday to pick his brains and he was most helpful.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

StuartO

 

I note that your Hymer is 2006-vintage, whereas the hinges shown in the photo you attached to your original posting are described on an e-bay advert as “Fitted to many Hymer models up to mid-2000”.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HYMER-LOCKER-CAB-DOOR-HINGE-SILVER-EARLY-HYMERS-/182020727252

 

Not sure that’s relevant though, as you should be able to identify visually whether the hinge you've bought matches those on your motorhome.

 

A GOOGLE-search on “hymer door hinge” will retrieve a fair amont of stuff, and there’s no doubt that, over time, Hymer has used a variety of different hinge designs, some very expensive.

 

The door hinges fitted to my 1996-built Herald Templar motorhome used to stiffen up and I sprayed them regularly with a silicone lubricant (I’d probably use a dry PTFE lubricant nowadays), but this wasn’t a complete cure. The hinges were attached with rivets, which seriously discouraged removal/replacement.

 

I can’t remember what hinges were used on my last (Hobby) motorhome’s Hartal entrance door, but the Rapido’s Hartal door has two very long hinges, with the door-edge attachments via ‘plates’ that can slide in a ‘groove’ in the door-edge allowing the door’s position to be adjusted vertically. (This sounds like being similar to your allen-screw arrangement.) The attachment of the hinges to the door-frame appear to involve just a couple of PozoDriv-head screws through the top and bottom part of each hinge (so 4 screws per hinge), but it wouldn’t surprise me if the hinge is also ‘stuck’ to the door-frame. As you’ve been able to loosen the door-frame screws but the hinge doesn’t detach, you may be right about an adhesive having been employed. It’s doubtfiul that riveting has been used - it should be obvious if Hymer had chosen that attachment method and there’d be no need for the screws.

 

Despite your criticism of Will’s comment, it’s worth asking how bad this problem is. If a hinge on my motorhome’s door squeaked I’d seek to cure this via lubrication. If that was unsuccessful and removing the hinge proved difficult I’d think very carefully about proceeding further. If there’s no sign of stiffness in your door hinges to suggest that failure might occur, it might be wise to live with the squeak.

[pepe63xnotuse]

Is there anyway/anywhere that you could drill & tap a thread into the hinge and fit grease nipples ?..

 

"Pumping" some grease in ,rather than having to rely on the lube just "creeping" it's way in, may be more beneficial?

 

[StuartO]

The existing hinges are visually identical with the replacement I bought which are pictured above.  The hinge consists of two short sections of extrusion with a steel pin driven into one of them and the pin is a sliding fit into the other.  There is a nylon bush at the base of the pin.  The replacement hinge slides apart easily.  Only the lowest of three hinges on the door creaks but it's very loud and annoying, hence my interest in replacing it.  A seemingly identical hinge was available on EBay from Brownhills so I bought one and a spare.

 

The hinge has been lubricated in the past but I'm not sure what with; I have some silicone spray in the garage so it will do no harm to give that a try before resorting to violence.  I will be going North this year so I might try to book into Peter Hambildons while I'm there to let him do it!

 

[Thai Bry]

StuartO - 2016-07-28 9:19 I will be going North this year so I might try to book into Peter Hambildons while I'm there to let him do it!

Hi Stuart

I know it's not a direct help in reagrds to the "Squeeky door" solution.

Just as a thought, if you are travelling North, could you make a journey detour near Mansfield, as Edgehill Motorhomes are located there, and they are very helpful and really do know their Hymer stuff. 

Mainly deal in Hymers themselves.

I've started using them over the last couple of years for Hab checks / MOT's and general annual service. Real nice people and very helpful.

[Derek Uzzell]

On some motorhome models In the 1990s Hymer used to fit door hinges with grease nipples, but those hinges were pretty bulky and would have been designed to allow the grease that was pumped in to travel through the hinge’s internals. Even if it were practicable to modify Stuart’s squeaky hinge to accept greasing via a nipple, the chances are minimal that this could be done without first removing the hinge from the vehicle - which is exactly the problem Stuart is faced with.

 

It might be practicable with the hinge in situ to drill a hole through the body of the hinge through which lubricant could be injected, or to remove the plastic ‘bung’ on the appropriate end of the old hinge, put in lubricant and transfer a bung from the new hinge. (I recall contemplating removing the end-bung of one of my Herald’s door hinges, but as it seemed certain that attempting this would damage the bung - and I didn’t have a replacement - I decided against this.)

 

Is it possible to remove just half of the squeaky hinge so that the hinge-pin within it can be exposed and lubricated?

 

It’s probably too much to hope that the door just hangs on the three hinges as, if that were the case, it might be possible without removing any of the hinges to open the door wide and then (VERY CAREFULLY) jack the door up so that the hinge-pins became sufficiently exposed to be lubricated. Even if only a small amount of hinge-pin can be exposed, this might be enough to allow lubricant to creep up the pin.

[StuartO]

Thanks for the responses, some useful thoughts are emerging.

 

The hinges are easily slid apart but I haven't yet looked at whether they are all fitted the same way, which might allow the door to be jacked up, exposing all three pins but I will check.  My expectation would be that they are staggered to prevent this but we'll see.  (The MH is alongside the house but it currently raining hard!) 

 

There is a plastic plug in the end of the "female" part of the hinge, which is attached to the door (which on the installed creaky hinge is at the lower end of the assembly) so it might be possible to get that out and squirt silicone inside the tube but gravity will not help to spread it.  I'll give it a go. The plug on the replacement hinge is a very tight fit.

 

If I can get the top half of the hinge off the door frame (I can at least get the screws out of that half) I should be able to drive that half, with pin, out of the female half.  I could then clean the pin and ream out the nylon sleeve, then it might reassemble and work without creaking.

 

I'm going to take my time with this job; the door does work even though it's annoyingly creaky.

 

[StuartO]

The rain eased so I went to the MH to have another look. The top two hinges are fitted upside down compared with the bottom (creaking) one, so the door cannot be lifted off or jacked up without at least one hinge being removed.

 

I haven't tried removing the bottom plug from the creaky hinge and I have yet to apply more lubricant but I will try before I resort to a more forceful attack on the hinge fastenings.  I plan to remove the fastenings on the door side of the creaky hinge but grinding the head off the self tapper screw and unscrewing the alan-key headed machine screw, having taken precautions against the non-captive nut sliding down the door extrusion and out of reach.

 

I will report back in due course.

 

[Will86]

The sounds that Stewart describes are different from the original that was a squeak and is now a creak. To me they are caused by different reasons, of course not being beside the door one can only guess.

I place a squeak as a tight joint whereas a creak is a solid mechanical sound.

 

Some while ago I had a problem where an internal but hidden door arm that was emitting a creak resulting in the sound travelling to a different point from its origin. To cure this a panel had to be removed to get at the offending point.

 

From what has been offered it now sounds like a seizure of two parts.

[StuartO]

Sorry to disappoint you Will but the noise the door makes hasn't changed, I just decided to use a different word to better describe it. Sticking door hinges do creak rather than squeak, don't they?

 

The door still operates, so there hasn't been a seizure either, unless your definition of seizure doesn't mean a complete seizure, although the hinge is probably binding as the pin reluctantly rotates in the nylon sleeve, hence the creaking noise.

 

I'll know more if I ever get the hinge off and disassembled but I suspect the pin is binding in the nylon sleeve bearing because the latter has swollen after application of what might well have been WD40 or other oil in the past.  My OH is a great one for squirting things with oil to cure them.  As I understand it once nylon has swollen in this way the sleeve needs replacing or at least reaming out to restore free movement.

 

By the way my name is spelled Stuart, as in StuartO.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

More advice here

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Hinge-lubrication/41405/

 

It’s probably stating the obvious, but accurately reaming out a swollen nylon insert may prove tricky. As you have a ’spare’ hinge, you might be better just fitting the appropriate half of that.

[Will86]

From reading all the messages it does seem that silicon spray is a fair answer.

(ref the second reply from brodach)

 

However in emergency's one liquid used by this author when under HM military exercise's in distant parts was to urinate upon the offending part.

 

At the time it proved successful by cooling the two objects so allowing the user to arrive at his destination.

 

When 'in the field' free thinking becomes a necessity for survival.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Will

 

Could this be the secret of you reaching the grand old age of 87 and still be hale and hearty?

 

http://mamiverse.com/10-uses-for-human-urine-65796/2/

 

Or are you just taking the proverbial?

[Robbo]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-08-01 11:45 AM

 

Will

 

Could this be the secret of you reaching the grand old age of 87 and still be hale and hearty?

 

http://mamiverse.com/10-uses-for-human-urine-65796/2/

 

Or are you just taking the proverbial?

 

Nice one Derek 8-) Even so, I bet Will could teach Bear Grylls a thing or two !!!

[Will86]

Derek, no most certainly not ... to be untruthful its never an aim of mine, I see little point. Ref the incident described I was in Germany on a forest pathway at the time wheeling a two wheeled machine that kept pulling to one side, upon inspection the plain bearing had tightened in its housing, all it need was a lubricant, with none to hand the simplest remedy was ones own body fluid.

 

In one of my past lives I attended a tool making course on the military base at Aldershot. This along with other boys was to teach us how to make and repair objects with only hand tools, files, saws, chisels etc. its really quite surprising what one can achieve.

 

Life is wonderful, full of mysteries and very little is insurmountable. Every one has a brain ... just use it.

 

Of all those who post on here I reckon the nearest to my way of thinking is Nick (Euroserve).

[StuartO]

I finally got around to tackling my squeaky hinge again and here is the outcome.

 

I had telephoned Peter Hambildon who warned me that the half which fastens to the door has machine screws and captive nuts which can slide out of reach along the groove in the door extrusion unless you secure them in place before unscrewing.

 

I therefore chickened out and decided to remove the half of the hinge fixed to the door frame.  I removed the two woodscrews and used an old wood chisel to force the hinge away from the door frame.  I'm still not sure whether glue had been used but it was not easy to shift.

 

I was then able to separate the two halves of the hinge by sliding my loose half (which held the hinge pin) out of the nylon-bushed other half.  It was a sticky fit (hence the noise from the hinge) so I used a 5mm drill to clean the bore of the bush.  I cleaned up the pin and applied a squirt of silicone fluid and the hinge pin was a sliding and rotating fit.

 

Reassembly was then straightforward and the hinge now operates more or less silently.

 

[bazzybabes]

StuartO - 2016-09-10 2:35 PMI finally got around to tackling my squeaky hinge again and here is the outcome.

 

I had telephoned Peter Hambildon who warned me that the half which fastens to the door has machine screws and captive nuts which can slide out of reach along the groove in the door extrusion unless you secure them in place before unscrewing.

 

I therefore chickened out and decided to remove the half of the hinge fixed to the door frame.  I removed the two woodscrews and used an old wood chisel to force the hinge away from the door frame.  I'm still not sure whether glue had been used but it was not easy to shift.

 

I was then able to separate the two halves of the hinge by sliding my loose half (which held the hinge pin) out of the nylon-bushed other half.  It was a sticky fit (hence the noise from the hinge) so I used a 5mm drill to clean the bore of the bush.  I cleaned up the pin and applied a squirt of silicone fluid and the hinge pin was a sliding and rotating fit.

 

Reassembly was then straightforward and the hinge now operates more or less silently.

And me too, thanks to StuartO.2002 Hymer B584 with sticky habitation door no longer.Thank you Stuart and O&A Live Forum.Very fiddly as door included a flyscreen but principle was just the same. :-D