Replacement Leisure Batteries Types

[Mikebs]

Following on from my previous thread regarding changing my leisure batteries I have been making some enquiries regarding replacements.

 

These batteries have been suggested:

 

Yuasa REC80-12i 12V 80Ah High Performance Heavy Duty Cyclic Mobility Battery

&

Leoch AGM 85 Mobility Battery 12V 85Ah

 

Neither description mentions them being used as a leisure battery, do you think they would be suitable?

 

These have been suggested because they are in similar in size to my existing batteries and have the terminal posts.

 

Thanks for any advice.

[mikefitz]

I think this battery has the required dimensions.

 

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/85-ah-leoch-agm-leisure-battery/

 

Leoch LAGM series batteries in my experience perform well.

From Alpha batteries with a 4 year warranty.

I know AGM batteries have a bad press on this forum, its not the batteries at fault, just inadequate and poorly designed motorhome charging systems.

Provided the batteries have a reasonable charge from the alternator and a high float of around 13.6 to 13.8 volts they will last well. With AGM, unless full charged, the capacity will gradually 'walk down' with each discharge/charge cycle, to a lower and lower capacity. The high float voltage helps to 'top up' the battery and reduces this effect. Having solar is a great help in keeping the batteries healthy.

With the location and storage limitations I suggest that sealed batteries are the only option.

For anyone with newish AGM batteries, a rested fully charged battery ( no charge or load) will show a voltage in excess of 13 volts , say 13.1 volts.

 

Mike

[Mikebs]

Hello mikefitz,

thank you for the suggestion, this battery looks like a good candidate.

 

Just wondering if golf cart batteries are suitable as leisure batteries.

[Keithl]

Hi Mikebs,

 

Have you read the useful info on Allan's website at A and N Caravans?

 

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/

 

Are your chargers optimised for AGM? ie do they charge at the correct voltages? If not then IMO you need to steer clear of them as incorrect charging voltages will seriously shorten their life.

 

Keith.

[aandncaravan]

mikefitz - 2019-07-16 9:41 PM

 

I think this battery has the required dimensions.

 

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/85-ah-leoch-agm-leisure-battery/

 

Leoch LAGM series batteries in my experience perform well.

From Alpha batteries with a 4 year warranty.

I know AGM batteries have a bad press on this forum, its not the batteries at fault, just inadequate and poorly designed motorhome charging systems.

Provided the batteries have a reasonable charge from the alternator and a high float of around 13.6 to 13.8 volts they will last well. With AGM, unless full charged, the capacity will gradually 'walk down' with each discharge/charge cycle, to a lower and lower capacity. The high float voltage helps to 'top up' the battery and reduces this effect. Having solar is a great help in keeping the batteries healthy.

With the location and storage limitations I suggest that sealed batteries are the only option.

For anyone with newish AGM batteries, a rested fully charged battery ( no charge or load) will show a voltage in excess of 13 volts , say 13.1 volts.

 

Mike

 

In our experience Leoch batteries are not great performers. The fact the Leoch has a high Ah rating indicates it has light weight/thinner plate construction.

 

 

Mike, you are giving out bad advice here.

 

You write, "I know AGM batteries have a bad press on this forum, its not the batteries at fault, just inadequate and poorly designed motorhome charging systems."

 

While charging voltages are key, there are also issues with temperature and charge/discharge rates.

For example the Yuasa Rec 80 12 is designed as a battery for motive power, Golf Karts, mobility scooters, Fork Lifts, etc. These batteries usually have low current draw taken out intermittently through a typical 9 - 5 day. They are then put on purpose made, low current charges that have all night to put the power back.

 

The battery plates won't even get warm.

That is very different to a modern motorhomes demand for higher current over a long period, where the plates will get hot, deteriorating them. Likewise a, high current charge, to charge them back up isn't going to be good either. Especially on a 20+a Solar charger we have here.

Remember that the acid in an AGM is held in Glass Matt, it can't move freely so rise by convection and bring in cooler acid like Wet acid does.

 

They are often sold as being perfect for use with an Inverter, and while they can supply high currents for seconds without damage, supplying an inverter for minutes is going to drastically shorten their life.

 

You say that overcharging them (most AGM manufacturers specify a lower Float voltage, not higher) is going to counteract this, when it will only cause more damage.

 

 

You also write,

"With AGM, unless full charged, the capacity will gradually 'walk down' with each discharge/charge cycle, to a lower and lower capacity".

 

This is how ALL Lead batteries work, Gel, Wet and AGM. All lose a little capacity when charged/discharged, regardless of whether the battery is fully charged or not, See our Battery FAQ page for more info - http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/general-battery-faq.php

 

It is Sulphation that specifically affects AGM batteries that are not fully charged, which they won't be by a 14.1v CBE 516 charger, or almost all Caravan/Motorhome charger units.

 

 

There has also been an issue in the past with the AGM batteries aimed at the Leisure market being just glorified Starter batteries, Almost all taken from the Stop/Start car market, and as a result having Starter battery style 'Thin' plates.

 

Cut open a Leoch, it's Plate construction won't match it's claimed spec.

 

The Yuasa Rec 80 12 is at least a 'thick Plate' battery.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

It should be evident from Mike’s earlier enquiry about this

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Replacement-Leisure-Batteries/52240/

 

that, realistically, he will be compelled to choose a pair of AGM batteries with specific dimensions that will allow them to be mounted on their side in an existing storage compartment.

 

What Mike needs, then, is a recommendation of the ‘best’ AGM battery that meets the dimension criteria.

[Mikebs]

Thank you all for you replies.

 

I think Derek has summed it up well for me. As the van has "lived" with AGMs for the past 12 years and given the complication of changing I will probably stay with AGM.

 

Does anybody have any recommendations for a battery that will meet my requirements.

TIA

[aandncaravan]

I understood he had decided on AGM and put two batteries forward as contenders.

I said Leoch were not great performers and while it isn't ideal (in my opinion) the Yuasa is at least a thick plate deep cycling Leisure style battery.

[Derek Uzzell]

Three ‘contenders’ for replacing Mike’s Squadron Energy batteries have been mentioned above

 

1: Leoch LAGM-85 (weight approx 25kg)

 

2: Motobatt MB85-12 (weight 26.2kg)

 

3: Yuasa REC80-12l (weight 27kg)

 

These are links to datasheets for the first two batteries

 

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/media/catalog/product/l/a/lagm-85.pdf

 

http://www.motobatt.us/MB85-12-Motobatt-12V-Battery

 

and a datasheet for the 3rd can be downloaded from here

 

https://www.yuasa.co.uk/batteries/industrial/rec-vrla-cyclic-use/rec80-12.html

 

Tayna prices are

 

Leoch - £120

 

Motobatt - £140

 

Yuasa - £162

 

A cursory GOOGLE-search indicates that these three products are not the only AGM batteries with dimensions that would allow them to be housed in Mike’s motorhome's storage compartment, and that there are also suitably-sized gel batteries.

 

The fact that these type/sizes of battery are normally marketed for golf-cart or mobility-scooter usage doesn’t mean that they will be inappropriate for motorhome ‘leisure batteries’ and, in any case, if the batteries are to be installed on their side in Mike’s motorhome, he has no option but to choose an AGM or gel type of battery.

 

Personally, if I were in Mike’s position, I’d begin by asking myself a) How long do I plan to keep this motorhome? and b) Do I really need 170Ah of battery capacity? This would be a cost-cutting approach if I were reluctant to pay around £240 for a pair of batteries. (My Rapido has a 100Ah leisure-battery but, given the way I use the vehicle, I’m sure I could get away with a 85Ah battery.)

 

If the Squadron EnergyAGM batteries were still available, logically these would be the ones to choose - but they aren’t available. The Yuasa REC80-12l may be heavy, but this 2018 forum thread may cause concern about its longevity

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/2017-Swift-Leisure-Battery-Failure/50386/

 

Yuasa and Leoch are both reputable manufacturers. The cheapest on-line price I can find for a Yuasa REC80-12l is £146 (including delivery) so there’s not a massive price difference between the Yuasa and Leoch batteries.

[Mikebs]

Hello Derek,

thank you for your time and reply.

 

Having re-read the posts I am now concerned regarding using AGMs.

 

Is it practicable to replace my existing batteries with lead acid batteries, assuming I that I can find something of similar dimensions with Bolt Through Terminals. I would need to have new clamps made up and presumably a breather hole - should this be in the bottom of the compartment.

 

I see that there are different type of lead acid, which would be the best option for leisure battery.

 

Life is definitely getting more complicated

[aandncaravan]

Fresh information from a conversation this morning, Leoch is one of the manufacturers under investigation as per other threads I have posted on here on the governments investigation into battery mis selling, Spoke to their man today, hope to meet next week, and the Leoch isn't a battery I would buy either as an AGM or wet battery.

 

If the meeting goes ahead next week, health permitting, I have been promised a press release I can update the web site with.

 

[arthur49]

aandncaravan - 2019-07-18 12:26 PM

 

Fresh information from a conversation this morning, Leoch is one of the manufacturers under investigation as per other threads I have posted on here on the governments investigation into battery mis selling, Spoke to their man today, hope to meet next week, and the Leoch isn't a battery I would buy either as an AGM or wet battery.

 

If the meeting goes ahead next week, health permitting, I have been promised a press release I can update the web site with.

 

Good luck Allan .......

[Derek Uzzell]

Mikebs - 2019-07-18 9:53 AM

 

Hello Derek,

thank you for your time and reply.

 

Having re-read the posts I am now concerned regarding using AGMs.

 

Is it practicable to replace my existing batteries with lead acid batteries, assuming I that I can find something of similar dimensions with Bolt Through Terminals. I would need to have new clamps made up and presumably a breather hole - should this be in the bottom of the compartment.

 

I see that there are different type of lead acid, which would be the best option for leisure battery.

 

Life is definitely getting more complicated

 

Forget ‘wet’ batteries - if you want to use the present storage compartment, it’s either AGM or gel batteries that have very similar dimensions to the Squadron Energy batteries.

 

(Stop soil-searching and buy a pair of Yuasa REC80-12l batteries at the best price you can find...)

 

 

[colin]

Derek Uzzell - 2019-07-18 12:59 PM

 

Mikebs - 2019-07-18 9:53 AM

 

Hello Derek,

thank you for your time and reply.

 

Having re-read the posts I am now concerned regarding using AGMs.

 

Is it practicable to replace my existing batteries with lead acid batteries, assuming I that I can find something of similar dimensions with Bolt Through Terminals. I would need to have new clamps made up and presumably a breather hole - should this be in the bottom of the compartment.

 

I see that there are different type of lead acid, which would be the best option for leisure battery.

 

Life is definitely getting more complicated

 

Forget ‘wet’ batteries - if you want to use the present storage compartment, it’s either AGM or gel batteries that have very similar dimensions to the Squadron Energy batteries.

 

(Stop soil-searching and buy a pair of Yuasa REC80-12l batteries at the best price you can find...)

 

 

 

Good advice from Derek, I'll refrain from naming the 8 year old AGM's I'm replacing this year as I'll only get told I'm talking rubbish. If you've previously used AGM's and had good service from them there is no reason to be worried as long as you buy a quality replacement.

[PCC]

I'll also put in a word for AGM. I've had an Optima spiral wound battery for a number of years and I've been happy with it (blue top but the deep cycle dual purpose version). At the end of the day it was a matter of getting something that would fit under the drivers seat. They are expensive but there are sometimes some good deals to be had.

 

Don't know whether the 75A version would fit in your space.

 

Peter

[Derek Uzzell]

Any replacement for the Squadron Energy 85Ah AGM batteries currently fitted to Mike’s motorhome will need to have maximum dimensions not exceeding

 

Length - 260mm

Width - 170mm

Height - 240mm

 

and, due to the size limitations of the storage compartment where the batteries are housed, replacement batteries will need to be installed on their side - which means that replacement batteries must be AGM or gel type.

 

A 75Ah Optima battery would be too long (324mm) though a 55Ah version MIGHT go in (L-254mm, W-175mm, H-200mm). Fitting a pair of those would result in a capacity of 110Ah, a cost of around £360 and wiring modifications would be required as the Optima terminals differ from those of the Squadron batteries.

 

Presumably Mike NEEDS to replace the Squadron batteries (rather then replace them as a preventive measure) so he’s going to have to bite the bullet and make a purchasing decision soon.

 

Whatever the technical specification of the electrical system his Autocruise motorhome has, it evidently has allowed the Squadron AGM batteries to have a long working life. Reservations about AGM batteries for ‘leisure’ usage in motorhomes will need to be put aside - the only alternative in Mike’s case is to choose a gel battery instead (example here)

 

https://www.tayna.co.uk/golf-batteries/golf-buggies/gf12063yo/

 

but there’s no certainty (or ‘history’) regarding how well the Autocruise’s electrical system would handle gel batteries rather than the Squadron AGM batteries originally fitted.

 

The normally-suggested replacement for the Squadron Energy battery is the Yuasa REC80-12l, so - unless any forum member can advise him expertly otherwise - Mike might as well choose the Yuasa battery.

[76zedfour]

Whilst researching for my current solar upgrade I found this thread very interesting reading. I have heard the claim many times that car manufacturers are shunning AGM batteries in favour of other types but after a cursory google I can't find a single verified reference to this. I welcome any links anyone can provide though for my own education. The late Allan Evans from aanda was very insistent that AGM is/ was not suitable for motorhome use. I have personal experience of a failed AGM after 18 months use but after much reading in the last year I am inclined to believe the chargers, both on board and solar, were simply not up to the task and as Allan was a charger aficionado his actual experiences may have been predominantly with older british van chargers not up to the task either and this may have formed his opinion.

 

My new german motorhome on the other hand has both chargers fully optimised for AGM and the Varta AGM appears very healthy. There are several vocal, and I concede very knowledgeable people on here and other forums who denounce AGM and favour the other types. I just wonder if those who have experienced early failure like myself can safely say their chargers were up to the task and that they did not overstress the battery by allowing it to go flat or inappropriately overworking it with an inverter or was the demise just a case of poor stewardship and AGM aren't the "devils snot" to quote another poster that some would have us believe.

 

Any views?

[colin]

As per my earlier post, this year I have replaced my 8 y.o. Banner AGM, over the last year it had started to drop voltage more rapidly. We have a ebl99 and it was set to gel. And a 85w panel connected to battery through a pwm charge controller, worked perfectly for us, go figure.

[76zedfour]

Colin, ah that is my point regarding optimisation. I wonder if the more modern incarnation of the AGM battery now requires and insists upon a 14.8v charge to achieve the high number of cycles whereas your original battery never required that level hence was more tolerant of a standard charger

[weldted]

We have a brand new Burstner I Iexo 736. It came with one Varta professional 95 amp hr AGM battery. As its set up for this type of battery I have purchased a second one. Our three month trip to France, Spain and Portugal should give an indication of how they stack up. Our previous van we had two Yuasa L36-EFB 100 amp hr's.

The intention before going to the USA for six months around Feb 2020 is to have 2 100 amp hr Lithium batteries a 1.6 kva inverter/charger new battery Management and a Victron charger that can work of off 230 a.c. 50 Hz and 110 a.c. 60 Hz. This will allow me to run the air con as a step up transformer will only change the voltage not the frequency. Heard from Freshjet today the air con will suffer damage if run at 60 Hz.