Guest Tracker Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 There are a couple of firms on the web, none near Kings Lynn unfortunately, who advertise fitting cab air con to an existing vehicle but does anyone have any experience of actually doing this or know of any companies offering this service please? It's just that we have been offered a truly fantastic deal on a new unregistered 2011 built Euro 4 Fiat Bessacarr E460 which comes without air con and if we are going to change the van and use it more in hotter southerly climes we would like cab air con. The van has the Fiat 2.2 100 bhp engine with 5 speed box which on paper is similar in power and torque to our existing previous model Boxer's 2.2 hdi set up. I wouldn't want to have less power but as ours is acceptable rather than sparkling I could live with similar performance. I am not keen on ECU upgrades, at least whilst it would be in warranty. Any observations anyone please? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 You could try contacting this company http://www.readerair.co.uk/pdf/motorhome.pdf My own view is that retro-fitting cab air-conditioning to a brand new vehicle would be extremely unwise, not least because of the potential impact on the base-vehicle's warranty. If you had any problems with the air-con installation they would need to be addressed by the system's installer not Peugeot and, if there were base-vehicle problems that might possibly be considered to relate to the retro-fitted air-con, you'd be offering Peugeot the opportunity to argue that this was the case. In fact, I'd guess that retro-fitting air-con would void the Peugeot warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Hi. We had it retro fitted to our previous van 8 years ago, by Reader Air of Woking Surrey, cost then £1600. Worked a treat and would recommend them, a bit far from you though. e-mail, info@readerair.co.uk . Brian B. I see Derek got in before me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Rich, Again unfortunately nowhere near Kings Lynn but we used to use them from work to fit dash mounted systems to Defenders... Elite Automotive near Tamworth, Staffs. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Many thanks Derek and Brian - this firm did not come up on my Google search and I will contact them tomorrow. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickydripin Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Hi Tracker. we had the same problem when we brought our new Fiat and we had a Dometic 2200 air con unit fitted to the roof of our van. They did not need to cut a hole for it it fitted in one of the skylights a 400x400 it is a 12/240V so we can use it whilst travelling or on site with electric hookup it works a treat. and it costs about the same as the price above. Plus you can get them with a skylight in now so you do not lose any light. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Rich - can't comment on the engineering issues, but it's a MASSIVE vote from Kathy and I for Cab air-con as a must-have in any and all future vehicles if going to be used in Southern Europe. Even in winter air-con is brilliant for clearing mist/condensation from windows, and stopping fogging up when it's raining. But when the temperatures rise.........and you've experienced them down here..........I reckon it's madness not to have cab air-con. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 My flabber is aghast!......The tracker spending money! 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-05-28 12:08 AM My flabber is aghast!......The tracker spending money! 8-) Not quite Eddie - don't get too excited - at your age it can be dangerous - I'm only considering spending some more of our son's inheritance at this point and the thought is making me feel quite unbalanced! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I had not realised that a roof or locker mounted air con could be used via an inverter whilst on the move and this also opens up new possibilities - not least of which is being able to use the same inverter to power a microwave - albeit probably not on the move - so thanks for that guys. The under locker Dometic HB2500 air con unit looks like it might have possibilities too - anyone ever used one? HOWEVER - it looks as if the inverter takes about 150 amps at 12 v to get it's 1600 watts at 230 v and this does not bode well for batteries and alternator output - any thoughts anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 UPDATE. It looks as if the cost is going to be art least £2k plus whichever option so it is just a case of firstly getting a good deal on the van and secondly deciding which option - cab only engine driven - habitation electric driven 230v ac / 12 v dc - habitation mains electric plus engine compressor driven and each has its pros and cons. I'm told that as the roof mounted system is electric powered it will need a 1600 watt inverter which in turn will need an uprated alternator, battery and wiring to handle the 150 amp @ 12 volts continuous current and if this is so then I think this is a route that I would prefer to avoid? The roof mounted plus engine compressor will need coolant pipework routed from engine to roof and that might be an issue? So it's back to the engine driven cab system - possibly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Mickydripin - 2012-05-27 10:57 PM Hi Tracker. we had the same problem when we brought our new Fiat and we had a Dometic 2200 air con unit fitted to the roof of our van. They did not need to cut a hole for it it fitted in one of the skylights a 400x400 it is a 12/240V so we can use it whilst travelling or on site with electric hookup it works a treat. and it costs about the same as the price above. Plus you can get them with a skylight in now so you do not lose any light. Mike. No experience of this, but it would be my favourite as well, especially in view of the potential warranty issues Derek wisely raises. Consider, you get aircon that can be operated when on site or when on the move. You also get a large inverter to run the 230V aircon when on the move, which could doubtless have other uses when the aircon is not in use. You get linkage between habitation battery and starter battery to ensure adequate 12V power at times when the generator is not developing sufficient output for the aircon load, e.g. when stationary at lights or in a jam. I think it needs an interlock with the generator output, to ensure you don't inadvertently leave it running on 12V with the ignition off. I had thought this standard, but have recently been told by one owner that his was not so equipped. It needs to be mounted forward for best effect. Eddie had similar on his Eura-Mobil and spoke highly of its effectiveness. I would only add to get it fitted by a specialist and not by the dealer, unless the dealer really knows his stuff. One passing member on hers had endless trouble with a badly executed job and flat batteries. However, Dometic do a range of inclusive kits that appear very well thought out and on paper there is no reason for the job to be botched assuming the electrician a) can read and b) is not really a plumber! I think the cost, relative to what you get in terms of available cooling, not that much greater. However, that would depend on installation costs and no doubt in turn on the van layout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I agree Brian that a dual purpose air con would be ideal. HOWEVER - when off mains which is like always in our case - it runs on 12 volts and the inverter needed is 1600 watts at least which I make about a 150 amp load continuous at 12 volts. To handle this I would need a muchly uprated alternator, cabling and probably engine battery or batteries. I don't know how MickeyD's system works - perhaps he can tell us please because it certainly sounds good to me in theory at least but at odds with what I have been told by suppliers? There is another sort which uses an engine driven compressor to pump refrigerant from engine to roof unit but the problems of neatly trunking and insulating that are a bit daunting. For cab aircon there seems to be two choices - the Delphi / Diavia system which is around the £2650 mark fitted and the Autoclima system which is about £2050 fitted. At this stage I don't know what you get for the extra £600 as both websites are quite short on detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 As you never stay on site a roof a/c unit a bit pointless if no access to 230v. I would just go for engine a/c. or do the math and shop around for a van with it..there seems to be a good few of these about. when i had it on Euramobil with a 2000 watt inverter and 2 leisure batteries it would not run unless driving and would kick in and out. you may well have to upgrade alternator. I dont really miss it, we just use a fan on site now and that is good enough, also they are very noisey..... looking at plan of camper it would have to be near lounge at rear do you think, or is there room in corridor. a blast of air in back of neck not ideal as you really want it in the face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Thanks Eddie - I am inclined to agree with your assessment of the air con situation. That's twice this week we have agreed - aren't we setting a good example to the remaining forum terrorists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-05-28 12:08 AM My flabber is aghast!......The tracker spending money! 8-) I heard he was saving up for your birthday card Eddie :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandale Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-05-28 5:12 PM Mickydripin - 2012-05-27 10:57 PM Hi Tracker. we had the same problem when we brought our new Fiat and we had a Dometic 2200 air con unit fitted to the roof of our van. They did not need to cut a hole for it it fitted in one of the skylights a 400x400 it is a 12/240V so we can use it whilst travelling or on site with electric hookup it works a treat. and it costs about the same as the price above. Plus you can get them with a skylight in now so you do not lose any light. Mike. No experience of this, but it would be my favourite as well, especially in view of the potential warranty issues Derek wisely raises. Consider, you get aircon that can be operated when on site or when on the move. You also get a large inverter to run the 230V aircon when on the move, which could doubtless have other uses when the aircon is not in use. You get linkage between habitation battery and starter battery to ensure adequate 12V power at times when the generator is not developing sufficient output for the aircon load, e.g. when stationary at lights or in a jam. I think it needs an interlock with the generator output, to ensure you don't inadvertently leave it running on 12V with the ignition off. I had thought this standard, but have recently been told by one owner that his was not so equipped. It needs to be mounted forward for best effect. Eddie had similar on his Eura-Mobil and spoke highly of its effectiveness. I would only add to get it fitted by a specialist and not by the dealer, unless the dealer really knows his stuff. One passing member on hers had endless trouble with a badly executed job and flat batteries. However, Dometic do a range of inclusive kits that appear very well thought out and on paper there is no reason for the job to be botched assuming the electrician a) can read and b) is not really a plumber! I think the cost, relative to what you get in terms of available cooling, not that much greater. However, that would depend on installation costs and no doubt in turn on the van layout. We fit the Dometic 1600+ roof mounted air-con to one of our sales vehicles,(Toyota Hiace Compact Motorhome). The Dometic System works well and when fitted with a split charger never causes any problems to the vehicle starter battery. The system we fitted ran from its own 110ah leisure battery and the split charger always kept this battery charged even when the vehicle was sat in traffic. The down sides to this type of system are: Very expensive high amp cable required to install the system (the system is fused at 250amps, so cable must be suitably rated and run in as short a length as possible) additional strain on vehicle alternator and the air-con is not as good as the base vehicle air-con. From a power supply point of view the air-con unit does not require the heavy amps for long periods of time, in fact it only requires a large current when the compressor is on start-up and the current requirement falls dramatically when the compressor is running. In addition to this the compressor only runs for about 40% of the time. So this type of system will work and may be good for some, but it will never replace standard vehicle air-con. In my opinion and this is only my opinion, have the retrofit air-con fitted and if you want habitation air-con for when you are on-site have the Dometic 1600+ fitted, this will obviously cost more money but you will get better results. Other option is a good 240v generator which will run both your air-con and your microwave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Rich, there are one or two new/almost new E460s for sale I've noticed with the 130bhp engine and aircon fitted (one near you). I'm guessing you've seen these or is it just the one that you were offered that youve looked at. I was just wondering if any others came within £2k or so of your good deal, thus negating the need to retro fit. Rgds, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 bolero boy - 2012-05-28 7:38 PM Rich, there are one or two new/almost new E460s for sale I've noticed with the 130bhp engine and aircon fitted (one near you). I'm guessing you've seen these or is it just the one that you were offered that youve looked at. I was just wondering if any others came within £2k or so of your good deal, thus negating the need to retro fit. Rgds, much better idea 100bhp engine to small IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Thanks again guys for some more very good points. I'm not actually a great admirer of either Fiat or Swift - it was just that as the particular van on offer is so heavily discounted as to make it a better buy than many used ones it tempted us. However when you add on a second battery, solar panel, air con, cruise control, reversing camera, rear bumper for around £4000 it suddenly becomes far less attractive! Would you believe it doesn't even come with a TV aerial or awning - so much for Swift's marketing policy and vfm!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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