SPAM POSTINGS

[Randonneur]

sshortcircuit, saw you post but another of our amateur moderators have deleted this.

 

But just to let you know that we have got rid of over 200 spam posts over the last 2 days, as fast as one is deleted there are another 10 waiting in the wings. We have deliberately left the ones posted from 6pm onwards as we want Duncan to see what we are up against. This has turned into a full time job recently and there are another couple of people who are doing the same thing, getting rid of spam posts. I am currently considering leaving this Forum as we are unable to cope any more with these idiots. I have asked Duncan to try and sort something out, whether he will or not we shall see.

[Keithl]

Hi both,

 

I have also deleted over 200 posts in the last three days and was also going to get in touch Duncan tomorrow to see if anything could be done about it so count me in if you have discussions with him.

 

Keith.

 

Edit to add - I seem to spend longer deleting SPAM than actually reading threads! Something is seriously wrong there.

 

My suggestion would be that a 'moderator' has to approve a request to join the forum before they can post.

[PJay]

Keithl - 2016-09-11 7:0

 

My suggestion would be that a 'moderator' has to approve a request to join the forum before they can post.

 

Could not agree more. It would mean no one could join at weekends, but it does seem sad that people do this.

Can you tell where they are coming from??

It is fairly easy to see them as they tend to use silly names anyway, but it is getting worse.

Hope it can be sorted Not sure I see the point in it anyway, unless it gives them info, about our computers?

 

Well done on your good work lads. Let's hope Duncan or probably the tech team can sort it

PJay

 

[sshortcircuit]

I thank you for the info and very much appreciate the actions you are taking. I simple marked these post as spam to suggest to others not to open and thus deprive the spammer of his moment of "fame"

 

Will leave alone in future, although the post would have still remained for Duncan to see.

[Randonneur]

sshortcircuit - 2016-09-11 8:18 PM

 

I thank you for the info and very much appreciate the actions you are taking. I simple marked these post as spam to suggest to others not to open and thus deprive the spammer of his moment of "fame"

 

Will leave alone in future, although the post would have still remained for Duncan to see.

 

No, that's fine, thank you for taking the time but as Keithl and ourselves have said it's getting beyond a joke.

 

Someone mentioned using Captcha don,t know whether that would work or not. See what happens when Duncan opens his messages.

[Brian Kirby]

The problem is that registration is virtually open to anyone, anywhere, with no verification of identity of any sort required. The answer is to make registration dependent on a verifiable e-mail address (or similar) being submitted, with the initial password sent back to that address, giving the option to change the password once registration is complete. Many other sites do this, and it seems to work, though probably not impregnable.

[Keithl]

Hi All,

 

I have just had a reply from Duncan that he will contact the internet team to see what can be done. I'll let you know when I hear back from him.

 

Keith.

[Tracker]

I too very much appreciate the efforts of the voluntary spam removers, but the problem seems to have grown and evolved with maybe word spreading amongst the spammers that this forum is an easy touch to such a point that it is simply not fair that so much time and effort should be taken from the few.

 

I await with interest any solutions that Duncan and the IT team propose as they surely must have some ideas and perhaps they will give the members the opportunity to vote for the best perceived solution rather than imposing one on us?

 

Meanwhile my hearrtfelt appreciation to the few that have worked so hard on our behalf.

[Den]

It does take time, this morning while waiting for passengers at bhx @ 06.00. I deleted 21 ish. Could have been more. But lost count. Makes it easier when I see a 0 in the replies section.

It does make me wonder what they get out of it, is it adverts or planting a bug when you open the file.

I've never clicked to find out.

Happy de spamming everyone.

[Charles]

Never, in the field of human forums has there been so much owed by so many to so few.

 

I thank you.

[Tracker]

Den - 2016-09-12 1:12 PM

Makes it easier when I see a 0 in the replies section.

 

OK then - so anyone seeing this crud do not reply or post anything not even to label it spam if it helps Den and the other de-spammers..

[Den]

Thanks tracker

Is does make it quicker to spot them. I tend to look for the 0.

 

 

[Randonneur]

If you go down to the bottom of the home page you can usually spot the strange names that these posters put on and if you click on that name you then realise that they are nuisances.

 

Here is one: macscrooge! He says his name is Tim Gow and he has 1 post, joined today, but search for his post on the search facility and it is not there.

 

That's just one

[Tracker]

Just logged on to tthe first page of threads and I find that at just after 5.00 pm on Sunday 18th September that of the first 28 listed threads 22 are spam and just 8 relate to the forum - and one of them is another complaint about spam and unwanted detritus, which means 7 in real terms.

 

These 22 spam items have been posted by just 8 spammers and surely enough is enough?

 

What is being done to stop this? Where is Duncan? What have the IT team come up with?

 

Are they even bothering? Does anyhone even care? Something needs to be done?

 

The volunteers have done a great job and I am not decrying their efforts in any way, but it is simply unfair to rely on them as they have lives too.

 

Word must be spreading amongst the crud posters because the number of spam entries and the number of spammers is rising, all of which is not good news for the future of this much valued forum.

 

They are becoming bolder and more inventive with their titles such that I now do not logon to any thread unless I recognise the name of the poster.

[Keithl]

Hi Rich,

 

I PM'd Duncan last Monday about the situation and he replied saying he would contact the internet team.

 

I'll send him another PM and ask him to look at today's postings.

 

Keith.

[Bulletguy]

This problem could be sorted quite easily. Email address verification is the only answer.

 

I use a few forums where registration usually takes a day before approved and you can't register using Hotmail or Gmail either. It has to be an established isp. They get zero spam.

 

edited to add; at 2226hr there were 30 spam posts. Absolutely crazy.

[Derek Uzzell]

Over the weekend most of the Out&AboutLive forums were spammed with this ‘live streaming’ crap.

 

I have deleted the (many) offending entries in the motorhome-related forums and in those forums (eg. Chatterbox) where there was a relatively small number of spam postings. Much as it grieves me to waste my time doing this, leaving the spam postings in place badly affects the usability of the more popular forums.

 

However, I have left untouched the Tent Talk (15 new spam entries) and Walking Talk (25 new spam entries) as an example to the Warners ‘team’ of the latest extent of the problem.

 

As Den said in his posting of 12 September 2016 1:12 PM, deleting spam postings is not a simple, quick ‘point and click’ procedure. Each posting needs to be dealt with individually and a batch of spam entries cannot be targeted and removed in a single go.

 

I’ve asked Duncan in the past if I might be given the necessary system privileges to ‘ban’ a spammer by user-name and/or IP-address (as this would be more of a deterrent than just deleting the spam entries) but he has informed me that the ability to do this would also give me complete access to the entire forum set-up and configuration which (as an ex-system manager myself) I fully accept would be an inherently risky step to take.

 

Besides which, even if I were able to ‘ban’ a forum user by user-name/IP-address this would still be a reactive process and - as was observed here -

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/FORUM-SPAM-on-the-increase/42495/

 

this type of spamming needs to be inhibited at the forum registration stage.

[Tracker]

My perception is that most new members often join to ask a question that is concerning them, and that once answered many of them disappear never to be seen again with very few becoming regular contributors.

 

Such is the depth of experience and knowledge over many years stored on this amazing forum that the answer to most questions can often be found by using the search facility. The problems seems to be knowing what words to use to search with and in which sub section to look, and over what time period. So maybe that can be amalgamated and simplified?

 

Maybe if by way of an explanation about the search facility and immediate access to it new members might find the answers they seek more easily and the need for them to be able to post immediately would be reduced?

 

If it takes a reasonable one off fee to collectively pay for a workable forum I for one will contribute as even though we are 'retiring' from active touring I still enjoy this forum and I intend to be around for a while if only to annoy others.

[Duncan MMM]

This is the latest situation:

 

The internet team has checked the forum privileges setup and there aren't any issues with them. As you may or may not know, the forum software was created by a third party, not in-house. Our internet team has raised a support ticket with the company concerned to see how they can reduce the amount of spam posting, possibly with an enhanced registration system. I will keep you posted.

 

cheers

 

duncan

 

[Dave225]

I am not a computer expert but I suspect the spammer is actually a machine. It will try all combinations of e mail address to see what happens. Most of the time it gets a negative response but when ti hits lucky, then the machine is progarmmed to flood the address with spam. What exactly they are trying to achieve is again unclear unless there are links to allow input of personal information. Maybe they are just being irritating, in which case they are succeeding. Trying to trace it is also difficult unless you are in that field of excpertise as the ISP address will constantly change.I do not think the Forum is in that league.

 

I suspect the only real answre is to make the Forum private and that access is not available until after registration has been approved as bona fide. Cumbersome yes, slow yes, but in the long run possibly the only answer.

[Bulletguy]

Dave225 - 2016-09-19 7:25 PM

 

I am not a computer expert but I suspect the spammer is actually a machine. It will try all combinations of e mail address to see what happens. Most of the time it gets a negative response but when ti hits lucky, then the machine is progarmmed to flood the address with spam. What exactly they are trying to achieve is again unclear unless there are links to allow input of personal information. Maybe they are just being irritating, in which case they are succeeding. Trying to trace it is also difficult unless you are in that field of excpertise as the ISP address will constantly change.I do not think the Forum is in that league.

 

I suspect the only real answre is to make the Forum private and that access is not available until after registration has been approved as bona fide. Cumbersome yes, slow yes, but in the long run possibly the only answer.

 

Dave......there isn't any need to make it private, a forum can still remain public but only in the sense of posts being able to be read. In order to post you have to register and THATS where the changes needs to happen on this forum.....and it really isn't difficult.

 

By simply making the registration process requiring authentication and approval by Duncan (or a moderator) it would halt this nonsense instantly. The other point i mentioned is NO HOTMAIL or GMAIL addresses (quite a few forums won't allow them for the reason i've stated)......only recognised established isp's such as BT, Virgin, TalkTalk etc.

[Spireite]

No Gmail?

 

Thanks very much.

 

Our email account was hacked, almost certainly in an establishment in France last year, and we changed from Yahoo to Gmail.

 

We've had no problem with the Gmail account, or any problems with using it on many other forums, but if it isn't allowed on here then I'm afraid you'll lose a member who is certainly not a spammer.

 

My input may not be very substantial but, as they say, every little helps.

 

I agree the registration system is not very good and needs improving but suggesting everyone should have an email address with some of the companies who have appalling customer satisfaction ratings is pushing it too far.

[Derek Uzzell]

Having worked for 26 years at GCHQ in the IT field I suppose I could be categorised as a “computer expert” (albeit a long-retired and well out of date one!)

 

The software behind the Out&AboutLive forums was produced in 2005, when spamming of the type that’s now occurring would never have been taken into account.

 

I’ve had some dealings with ‘legacy’ software and trying to modify/enhance it can be very challenging and time-consuming. I was once asked to troubleshoot financial purchasing software that was not doing what the customer needed and rapidly concluded that it wasn’t worth trying to fiddle with it. I just junked the original programs, started from scratch and rewrote everything.

 

The O&AL forums are free-to-join/use and operate in real-time 24/7 (which are two good reasons why they are popular). Dispensing with the 24/7 real-time concept and/or ‘vetting’ at the registration stage a new user’s email or IP address (or ‘validating’ the user’s ISP) would provide anti-spamming protection, but it would make the forums less attractive.

 

Although the forum’s SEARCH facility can be handy at times, it’s difficult to use effectively. There’s no doubt that some forum inquiries (and definitely not just those made by new/infrequent forum users) could be answered by exploiting the SEARCH facility, and even more inquiries could be dealt with adequately if a selective GOOGLE-search were made before posting a question to O&AL. But there’s no obligation to respond to a question, and although providing educational guidance about SEARCH/GOOGLE might be generally useful, it would have no effect on the spamming.

 

My recollection of the birth of the O&AL forums was that potential participants (ie. the users of the MMM forum that O&AL was to supersede) were never consulted as to what was needed. I was given the chance to see and comment on a beta version of O&AL that was hopeless conceptually and was replaced pretty much by what there is now. Even back in 2005 O&AL could have been better, but it was still a big improvement facility-wise over the MMM forum.

 

Me, I don’t care much about the O&AL forums’ limitations (eg. the user-unfriendly method in adding attachments to a posting) but the indications are that the spamming is on the increase and it’s obvious that the spammers could easily make these forums unusable if they so chose.

 

There are rules of thumb measures against forum spamming

 

https://blog.vanillaforums.com/help/9-ways-to-eliminate-spam-in-your-community-forum/

 

but as the O&AL forums were created as bespoke applications by a 3rd party over 10 years ago, there may be no simple, cheap way to deter/prevent the current culprit(s) from targeting these forums.

 

While Bulletguy’s suggestions are fine in principle, bolting any sort of replacement or modified registration process on to the present software will not be easy-peasy nor (as the programming task would not be carried out in-house by Warners staff) is it likely to cost peanuts.

 

‘Vetting’ by a human being at the registration stage should be avoided if at all possible. The method relies on someone being available to do the vetting and Duncan (or any other Warners staff member) cannot be expected to provide continuous oversight of new forum registration attempts.

 

People (not unreasonably) will anticipate being able to post to a forum immediately after registering, not to have to wait for an indefinite period until they’ve been ‘vetted’. Any delay/inhibition after registration before a post can be made will be off-putting. (I remember successfully registering on a French motorhome forum and then being faced with a mandatory demand to “Tell us about yourself”. I’m not sure if this was an anti-spam ploy, but it was sufficiently irritating that I never bothered to post.) Automated validation by ISP would inevitably hit non-UK-resident people wishing to participate on the Warners forums.

 

I don’t know what techniques the spammers are using, but I suspect that the junk is not being generated completely automatically. But the ball is in Warners court and it’s up to them to decide how best to address the problem.

 

[StuartO]

In the meantime thank you to the volunteers who  are doing all this work of deleting spam, it's much appreciated.

[Bulletguy]

Spireite - 2016-09-20 8:12 AM

 

No Gmail?

 

Thanks very much.

 

Our email account was hacked, almost certainly in an establishment in France last year, and we changed from Yahoo to Gmail.

 

The problem with Gmail is it's intrusive. Being owned by Google everyone using it should expect that which over time as a browser has also grown increasingly intrusive and Gmail is no different. It behaves in the same manner scooping up information about individuals.

 

Here is a small example of what i mean. My son uses it as does my neighbour friend. I've sent text messages from my mobile to both those people. Within a couple of weeks i received messages notifying me of a photo message i'd been sent. Very odd considering my phone is so ancient it doesn't receive photos! Neither person had sent any photo at all......but Google/Gmail now has my mobile number logged. To me thats an invasion of my privacy.

 

From an article about Gmail;

 

It exists for just one reason: to help Google make money. Google is not in business to make the world a better place (OK, they say they are, but they’re lying). They are in business to make a profit. Gmail is a very important part of their business model.

 

They give it away for free (mostly), and crushed the competition by giving away more gigabytes of storage than anyone else.

 

Millions of us signed up to use it. And we discovered, if we were paying attention, how Google benefited from this: they data mine our emails. We turn over the content of our address books and our emails, including attachments, to Google, and in exchange they mine the data to find ways to sell us things.

 

If Google knows that you are discussing having a holiday in Spain with your friends and family, it will helpfully show you advertisements promoting various Spanish-related holiday deals — on the same screen as you see your emails.

 

http://www.ericlee.info/blog/?p=975