Solar Panel

[Knauser]

Good evening Forum,

 

I have a Knaus Sun Ti bought October 2015. For last two winters i have had battery charging issues, when after 1 months of inactivity we've found that there has been no power whatsoever. On purchase we had the dealer fit a solar panel, and extra leisure battery so this problem would never arise. Last winter they said the problem was the battery charger not working properly so they replaced this under warranty, throughout summer no issues! This time they are saying that as the batteries have become so low they have just drained, and are currently suggesting both batteries be replaced at my cost.

 

They are saying i should shut off the solar panel when not in use, something never said before to me and i don't know how to do this. The dealers technical people are a shambles and frankly i do not trust them as in the past they have given me some poor advice when one or two other matters have arisen. (As an aside the best one being when for two years running, after our long summer holiday, we found we had an airlock in the fridge so it wouldn't work on gas, the technicians solution was to always use sites with electrics and then we wouldn't need to use it on gas!)

 

Am i right in thinking that if a solar panel is fitted, leisure batteries should not drain and there should be no need to turn it off? On our previous Dethleffs motorhome, albeit 12 years ago, we had a panel fitted and never any problems.

 

Nick

[mgnbuk]

I have had solar installations on my 3 previous motorhomes. All were fitted when I took delivery.

 

First was about 80 watts (going by the panel size & currents seen on controller panel) with a dual output controller set to charge the hab battery to 90% before switching charge to the cab. 2 1/2 years with that with no flat batteries & there was a Sigma alarm off the cab battery.

 

2nd was a 100W panel with a single output controller connected direct to the hab battery. I fitted a CSB2 unit to take charge to the cab battery. No alarm on that van & in 4 years no flat batteries, though had I kept that van I was intending to change out the "no name" hab battery supplied as original equipment.

 

Last van had a 120W panel with a dual output controller. No alarm but a tracker off the cab battery. Don't know how it was setup with regard to charge ratios between batteries, but in the year I had that van no flat batteries.

 

Next van has the same 120W arrangement as the last & I don't anticipate flat batteries.

 

All have been permanently connected, with fairly basic PWM controllers & all have stood for months with the van unused on occasions. The van is parked in a south facing location, but on a drive between houses - as I am "Up North", the panel is only in full sun (when it deigns to shine) in winter for about 4 hours & then at a shallow angle, but both batteries have always been good to go when I get in.

 

The situation you describe suggests something not right with your solar installation.

 

Nigel B

 

[Knauser]

Thanks Nigel. I’m also up north, huddersfield to be precise so clearly not too far away. Being not too technical I’m not sure on panel size but I suspect 100 or 120, I also have a tracker and alarm fitted. The panel is not fitted to the cab battery and that ran down as well resulting in a call to the breakdown.

 

I think the dealer is telling a few porkies to try and not say they’re at fault when it was installed. They’ve told me today the installation is correct, and yet the batteries are flat.

 

I’ll be speaking to them tomorrow as ive asked them to seek a second opinion .

 

On my old Dethleffs a meter was fitted and so it was clear when it was charging, and even through winter, offsite and off electrics it kicked in as soon as dawn broke whatever the weather.

 

The dealer wants about £150 to fit it to the cab battery, bu5 that seems expensive and I don’t trust them to do it correctly.

[Robbo]

Hi Nick

 

Is it your leisure battery that is being drained or both leisure + starter battery ?

 

A 90Ah starter battery will discharge to 50% in about a month because of the on-board vehicle electronics, continuously consuming about 60 milliamps. If a tracker or alarm system is in operation then the drain will be greater.

 

The leisure battery drain should be minimal with everything turned off. There are some items which are directly connected to the leisure battery such as electric step, entry lighting and possibly the auto satellite system, if fitted.

 

Suggest you check with a multimeter the voltage of your starter and leisure battery (on a sunny day). If the solar panel is working, then you should see a rise in voltage above the normal resting voltage of about 12.6 to 13.0 volts depending on which batteries you have installed.

 

 

 

 

[Knauser]

Hi robbo,

 

Both! This is the first time I’ve had issues with the cab battery. I have twin leisure batteries fitted, everything was tuned off and i definently feel that the solar panel should have been doing its job keeping the batteries topped up. I can accept the cab battery going flat it had been 6 weeks or so when the engine was previously turned over.

 

Nick

[Geeco]

Hi Nick, my AT came supplied with a solar panel. For the last three years I have parked it out in the open whennot being used. The charger keeps both batteries charged, alternating the charge feed as required. It has worked without issue since new. It does sound like you may have an issue. Suggest you make contact with Allan at A & N for a good dose of technical advice. Cheers, 

[Knauser]

Thanks Gary,

 

Mind telling me who A and N are?

[BruceM]

Knauser - 2018-02-19 9:29 PM

 

Thanks Gary,

 

Mind telling me who A and N are?

 

Allan from http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/ is one of the forum’s super experts and always willing to share his knowledge and advice. I’ve learnt a tremendous amount both from his posts and the wealth of knowledge he’s generously shared on his website. Check out something like http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/solar-power.php or http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php to gain a taste.

[Knauser]

Thanks to everybody who responded, and you've confirmed my thoughts that nothing should be shut off and yet i have just received an email from the dealer, and i quote as follows:

 

"The electrician has advised there is a red key which is used to shut the system down, this turns all relays off and if not done it drains the batteries down in just a few weeks. In sunny conditions the solar just keeps the batteries topped up. "

 

Is this just bull! I've never previously been told about the red key, though i know where it is.

 

Thoughts appreciated!

 

Nick

[BruceM]

What is the make/model of the solar regulator the dealer fitted and what is the make of the habitation batteries?

Also, do you know if the dealer cabled the regulator in via the habitation 12v Control unit/charger or direct to the habitation batteries?

[Knauser]

Bruce, all good questions but l have not the foggiest idea. The motorhome is at the dealer at the moment, and I knew when I bought it through previous experience I wanted a solar panel fitted.

 

What I can tell you the the Knaus as standard as one leisure battery, and its recommended that with a solar fit an additional battery is fitted. This was done, but they are in the Knaus service panel, which is great for access, but the batteries are hidden away, side by side and labels etc can’t be seen. I’m assuming the dealer, fitted the appropriate battery for the job, they’re a massive dealer that sells 100’s of caravans and motor homes each year. I’m not going to name them as I don’t believe in doing that in a public forum even though I believe their service dept is an utter shambles.

 

The working bits are hidden away below a seat where also the water heater is housed. I was told at delivery just make sure the lights flashing and you know it’s working, near that is a red switch which I have never touched and now being told I need to turn off, something I believe, even though I totally admit my technical deficiencies, I shouldn’t need to do.

 

This as I said earlier in the post also happened last winter and there they just said the charger was at fault, no discussions about red switches! And the charger was replaced under the warranty.

[Auditor]

The Calira charger, has a known history, as being problematic. In my opinion, they are not robust enough, to cope with many conditions, imposed on them, by a motorhome.

Take a look at the UK Knaus Owners Club website, and you will see that many users are on their second or third replacement, or repaired Calira's, and this is doesn't come cheap.

As a Sun Ti owner, for more than 12yrs, I've never tried switching off, at the "Red Key", but, since this isolates the leisure batteries, by cutting off the negative connection, it probably would help the leisure batteries to maintain their charge, when not in use.

You say that your solar panel only charges the leisure batteries, but, in my experience, the Calira system, will detect ANY charge, that is connected to the charging system, and will, therefore, divert this charge to whichever battery bank, it decides,it is required, although, I stress, that I haven't gone down the solar route, on my motorhome, myself.

I feel that your experience of solar, is not unusual, in a UK winter, in that there are many days when the charge is useless.

This winter, in particular, my domestic 3500 watt system, has had such poor generation, for days on end, and this is a system pointing towards the south, angled at the sun, so a flat panel, on the roof of a Sun Ti, with the shadows caused by the various roof furniture, and the sun being so low in the sky, if it shines, would not provide enough charge to maintain the batteries, even when the van is not being used.

In practical terms, batteries need checking, regularly, in order to maintain them in good condition.

As a rule, I have to put mine on charge, every 2 or 3 weeks.

On a Knaus Sun Ti, the leisure batteries are in an outside locker, which doesn't help with the loss of efficiency, in the winter temperatures.

In your own case, I have concerns that all your batteries might have suffered permanent damage, through lack of charge.

 

 

[colin]

Auditor - 2018-02-20 7:00 PM

 

I stress, that I haven't gone down the solar route, on my motorhome, myself.

I feel that your experience of solar, is not unusual, in a UK winter, in that there are many days when the charge is useless.

This winter, in particular, my domestic 3500 watt system, has had such poor generation, for days on end, and this is a system pointing towards the south, angled at the sun, so a flat panel, on the roof of a Sun Ti, with the shadows caused by the various roof furniture, and the sun being so low in the sky, if it shines, would not provide enough charge to maintain the batteries, even when the van is not being used.

 

The OP has previous use of solar, so one might hope has a decent grasp on their capabilities. I have decades of experience of using solar to maintain batteries, whilst there might be the odd week around shortest day that they might struggle in general a well set up system will keep the batteries at a healthy level when the van is unused.

[Knauser]

Auditor, thank you for that I was assuming the red key was a specific fit by the dealer for the solar panel. Clearly that’s not the case.

 

I will be collecting the motorhome later this week and I’ll check out the manufacturer of the charger, I’ll als9 check out the Knaus forum

 

Thank you.

[Knauser]

Colin,

 

My point exactly. I’m a previous dethleff I had a panel fitted and never touched it for the three years I owned it. I5 never ran light of charge and we wild camped through winter often as we were at yacht clubs up and down the country whilst daughter was training. Other friends had similar set ups, no problems as far as I know.

 

I’m not technical in any way, I pay to have It done correctly, and generally like to trust “experts” but this time I’m struggling to accept what I am being told based on previous experiences.

[aandncaravan]

Knauser, The Dethleffs have a very specific Solar solution recommended by both the Motorhome manufacturer and the Electronics manufacturer, therefore it has a higher chance of being a quality install using a quality Solar regulator wired to both batteries.

 

The Calira box you have installed, most likely a Calira 30/20 or 38/20?, does not have such recommendations from either the Motorhome manufacturer or Calira. As a result the Solar installs tend to be both poor in execution and the parts used.

 

Any self respecting company that knows anything about Motorhomes and Solar would have fitted a dual battery regulator, and a MPPT one at that, as these tend to work better in the low light Winter conditions of the UK.

 

 

Your Dealer is quoting that a Solar panel only keeps the battery 'topped up' in summer, which isn't true. It should be able to supply real charging of the batteries.

However, in Winter most will struggle to do more than 'top up' the batteries.

 

If the Solar install has been wired direct to ther habitation batteries the Calira will be unaware of such an installation so no charge will be directed to the Starter battery. You need a quality dual battery regulator for that.

 

I would suggest you have an evaluation done on the Solar, use our Solar pages Hints and Tips as a guide.

 

Auditer is correct that the Calira charger/controller units suffer issues, but not from any frailty in the design.

They are almost always burnt out by using batteries long after they are exhausted or having a battery bank bigger than designed. They were not designed to cope with a big habitation battery bank or poor batteries. This applies to ALL charger controllers ever made whether that be Sargent, BCA, Schaudt, Dometic, Reich, etc.

We know we have repair them all, although we no longer repair Calira because they are almost always used beyond their design so will rarely be reliable.

 

If you have had a second battery fitted, then it is likely to be ok initially but as the batteries degrade the load they place on the charging systems will increase until something gives.

See our "Add a second battery" webpage for examples of why it isn't a good idea, including a burnt out Calira 30/20 that had a second battery fitted : .http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/add-a-second-battery.php

 

 

 

 

[Auditor]

aandncaravan - 2018-02-23 4:40 PM

 

 

Auditer is correct that the Calira charger/controller units suffer issues, but not from any frailty in the design.

They are almost always burnt out by using batteries long after they are exhausted or having a battery bank bigger than designed. They were not designed to cope with a big habitation battery bank or poor batteries. This applies to ALL charger controllers ever made whether that be Sargent, BCA, Schaudt, Dometic, Reich, etc.

We know we have repair them all, although we no longer repair Calira because they are almost always used beyond their design so will rarely be reliable.

 

If you have had a second battery fitted, then it is likely to be ok initially but as the batteries degrade the load they place on the charging systems will increase until something gives. : .http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/add-a-second-battery.php

 

In my own case, the Calira unit was fine, for the first 5yrs, but then failed, and was repaired twice.

When it failed for the 3rd time, I decided that it was too unreliable, and fitted an Amperor 25Amp, 3 stage charger, which, although not as sophisticated, is much more robust, and has worked perfectly.

The two habitation batteries, were quite servicable, when the Calira failed, and went on to last for 11yrs, with the Amperor set up, before both habitation batteries were replaced, last summer.

In my opinion, this speaks for itself, and the Calira is just NOT fit for purpose. It's problems arise from a design fault, that try to make it more sophisticated than it really needs to be.

The manufacturers suggest that it is fine, to fit two habitation batteries, with the existing Calira, but, many people have found that this is NOT the case.

I'm all for developement improvements, but not when this creates reliability issues.

 

 

 

 

[aandncaravan]

If you look at the casing of the modern Caliras, like that shown on our 'Battery Charging Faults' webpage : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-charging-faults.php you will see that it lists it's charging capability as a 200Ah max battery bank.

As the unit also charges the Starter battery, most end up with 2 x 110Ah habitation batteries and a 90Ah Starter battery, Total battery bank size around 310Ah on a 200Ah MAX charger.

 

Sorry but that is at odds with what you state the 'manufacturers' say.

It is highly likely that the 'Dealers' will say otherwise, because it is in their interest to.

 

Either way, it is what the electronics manufacturers state is the units capability.

 

By fitting an Amperor direct to the Habitation batteries you have taken the Starter battery out of the equation. The Amperor will be more reliable as it's load has been reduced by one battery, a massive 1/3rd reduction in loading on a charger with a greater, 250Ah battery bank capability.

 

 

I have to say anyone who uses Leisure batteries, that probably only had a 3 year warranty, for 11 years, just doesn't have a clue how a battery works or what loading they are placing on a charger.

 

 

Lets look at what you say?

It worked fine for 5 years, and failed just as the batteries were getting to EOL.

You ignored the degraded batteries for the next 6 years during which time the Calira unit failed 3 times?

Doesn't that give you a clue as to the actual issue with a BATTERY charger?

Many have the Alternator also fail about this time, but still don't join the Dots.

 

If the unit has a design weakness how come it lasted well for 5 years, only giving issues when asked to look after a battery bank too big and too tired? Surely a flawed unit would fail inside 12 months?

 

 

Contrary to your claim that using a battery 5 years beyond it's design life "proves the unit has a weakness", I would say you have just proved my point.

 

 

Fitting a second battery is fine, so long as you stay within the limits of the charger, for example 2 x Varta LFD75, 75Ah, would be within limits at a total 150Ah + Starter battery..

 

 

 

 

[Auditor]

aandncaravan - 2018-02-24 12:30 PM

 

If you look at the casing of the modern Caliras, like that shown on our 'Battery Charging Faults' webpage : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-charging-faults.php you will see that it lists it's charging capability as a 200Ah max battery bank.

As the unit also charges the Starter battery, most end up with 2 x 110Ah habitation batteries and a 90Ah Starter battery, Total battery bank size around 310Ah on a 200Ah MAX charger.

 

Sorry but that is at odds with what you state the 'manufacturers' say.

It is highly likely that the 'Dealers' will say otherwise, because it is in their interest to.

 

Either way, it is what the electronics manufacturers state is the units capability.

 

By fitting an Amperor direct to the Habitation batteries you have taken the Starter battery out of the equation. The Amperor will be more reliable as it's load has been reduced by one battery, a massive 1/3rd reduction in loading on a charger with a greater, 250Ah battery bank capability.

 

 

I have to say anyone who uses Leisure batteries, that probably only had a 3 year warranty, for 11 years, just doesn't have a clue how a battery works or what loading they are placing on a charger.

 

 

Lets look at what you say?

It worked fine for 5 years, and failed just as the batteries were getting to EOL.

You ignored the degraded batteries for the next 6 years during which time the Calira unit failed 3 times?

Doesn't that give you a clue as to the actual issue with a BATTERY charger?

Many have the Alternator also fail about this time, but still don't join the Dots.

 

If the unit has a design weakness how come it lasted well for 5 years, only giving issues when asked to look after a battery bank too big and too tired? Surely a flawed unit would fail inside 12 months?

 

 

Contrary to your claim that using a battery 5 years beyond it's design life "proves the unit has a weakness", I would say you have just proved my point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but I have to disagree with much of what you believe about the Calira.

I wasn't too clear, about the manufacturers stating that the it was perfectly ok, to fit 2 hab batteries, I meant, in this instance, the motorhome manufacturer, Knaus, who fitted a dual battery box, as standard, and through their dealer network, approve the fitting, of two hab batteries.

 

During my working life, I too have been professionally involved with batteries, over many years, and realise many of the pitfalls, that people make, when dealing with them.

 

In other words, I know exactly what I am dealing with, and, from my own personal experience, reiterate, that many of these charging systems, are NOT fit for purpose, in that ordinary users need something that is reliable, and will not fail, at the slightest provocation.

The Calira, and other similar systems DON'T fall into this category

 

In practical reliability terms, we were probably better off with simple half wave, metal rectifiers, and step down transformers, which often lasted for years, with plenty of abuse.

 

As regards fitting an Amperor, I havent taken the starter battery out of the equation, but stripped out, what i will call the Calira control circuit, and reused this, so as to retain all the Calira Bord control functions,and now my Amperor deals with three batteries, without issues

 

Batteries can have a useful life for many years, if they are regularly checked, and recharged, before being really depleted.

I only replaced my 2 habs, because they had ceased to hold their charge ( around 12.7v ), for more than several days.

Incidentally, the original starter battery, wasn't replaced until it failed, last summer, whilst in France.

It was 12yrs old, and, it was showing signs of deteriation, but had always started the engine, up until that point.

Again, the Amperor, had coped with this without any signs of distress.

 

Telephone exchanges, have a massive battery back up, that has to be checked, and maintained, for obvious reasons. These are not replaced, every few years. This is just one example.

 

I realise, that just as you claim the dealers do, you too have earned your living, from poor equipment being fitted to motorhomes, and caravans.

 

What end users need, are simple and easy to use, leisure vehicles, and not to have expert knowledge, in order to enjoy their hobby.

 

The late John Hunt, once said that he would take some convincing, that so called leisure batteries, were any better than ordinary starter batteries.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aandncaravan]

Are you trying to say that if I let a battery degrade to the point that it has a virtual dead short on each cell that any charging device should be able to cope with what would effectively equate to putting an Iron Bar across the Alternator or mains charger terminals?

 

You have also not explained how such a flawed unit can be reliable for 5 years, only failing at a time that would correspond with battery EOL?

 

Datacentre batteries tend to be replaced every 7 years, where I worked they were, and although they can have a 10 year life, the battery construction and cost is massively different to that of a the average Motorhome Leisure battery. Usually costing more than 3 times as much.

 

I don't know of any standard Leisure battery manufacturer that expects their product to last more than 5 years before losing more than 20% capacity Suggest you read our webpages on how a battery 'works' as you don't seem to understand how they degrade in use and how the loading rises and why?

 

 

As for 'making our living', I think that if you actually read the webpages you will see they are about helping people avoid using our services!!!!!

Just as our advice here is also aimed at helping the OP.

 

[Auditor]

aandncaravan - 2018-02-24 4:37 PM

 

Are you trying to say that if I let a battery degrade to the point that it has a virtual dead short on each cell that any charging device should be able to cope with what would effectively equate to putting an Iron Bar across the Alternator or mains charger terminals?

 

You have also not explained how such a flawed unit can be reliable for 5 years, only failing at a time that would correspond with battery EOL?

 

Datacentre batteries tend to be replaced every 7 years, where I worked they were, and although they can have a 10 year life, the battery construction and cost is massively different to that of a the average Motorhome Leisure battery. Usually costing more than 3 times as much.

 

I don't know of any standard Leisure battery manufacturer that expects their product to last more than 5 years before losing more than 20% capacity Suggest you read our webpages on how a battery 'works' as you don't seem to understand how they degrade in use and how the loading rises and why?

 

 

As for 'making our living', I think that if you actually read the webpages you will see they are about helping people avoid using our services!!!!!

Just as our advice here is also aimed at helping the OP.

 

Oh dear! I've obviously upset you, and, it certainly wasn't intentional.

That, of course, can be a problem, posting on forums, and it's not for the first time, that I've done this, but I do apologise. I admit to making some points, with a "tongue in cheek" approach.

 

I'm afraid that I've not made my point, very well, so I'll try again, as briefly as I can make it.

 

Batteries can last for several years, beyond the manufactures guarantee, if they are regularly checked, and charged, as necessary.

My batteries, had a guarantee, of 5yrs, and were aprox 4yrs old, when the charging operation, of the Calira, failed.

The batteries were removed, and bench charged, in order to assess their condition.

After standing, overnight I checked the standing voltage, and the specific gravity, of each cell.

Everything was fine, and they were left for over two weeks, when they still held a charge of 12.75 volts.

No battery fault, was found, and I had then received the Calira, back from repair.

 

The installation seemed to work fine, for approx 6 months, during which time, I kept a very close check, on the battery voltages. They were never left in an undischarged state, or depleted below half charge, before recharging,yet the Calira failed, again.

Whilst it was away, for it's second repair (free of charge), I again went through the battery testing procedure, and they were still exactly as before.

At the time of the third Calira failure, with the knowledge that others had gone through the same pains, I decided to look for an alternative.

 

I decided on the Amperor 25Amp charger, which has proved reliable, ever since, using the same batteries, for many years.

I know that other owners have fitted, or had fitted, the CTEC chargers, often fitted "piggy back" style, in conjunction withe the failed Calira, so that their Calira Bord control still functions.

This is where I differ from your own view, in that I am certain that my Calira failed because of a weakness in it's design/components, NOT, as a result of ageing batteries. I suspect that this is probably the case, with many of my fellow owners.

Electronic devices DO fail. It's not unknown, or unusual, and not always the fault of something else, that it's connected to.

In my opinion, a charger should be able to recharge a larger battery bank, albeit taking longer to do so, without failing.

Ageing batteries, loosing their efficiency, does NOT necessarily make them cause faults on other parts of the charging system. If looked after, they can still have a useful life, as I have proved.

If they still hold a full charge, for a long period of time, then they are perfectly serviceable.

I know that your view is based on what you have found, but so is mine, so, whilst I respect your point of view, On this particular subject, we must agree to differ.

 

 

[aandncaravan]

You clearly don't understand the chemistry of a battery.

With each use of a battery, it will lose some capacity as some of the Plate Paste will not be returned to 'it's charged' state.

 

This results in a battery slowly dropping from it's original 100Ah capacity down to less than 80Ah within a few years of use. It is at this point that the industry regard a battery as exhausted.

It is also at this point that the major manufacturers measure the cyclic capability. So a Bosch with 200 cycles will be 200 cycles of greater than 80% capacity. The 'Budgets' often quote the number of cycles down to 60% efficiency, hence why the best batteries perform beyond their 'paper' spec.

 

Clearly any 'cycle' will be of reduced value from this point on because a 100Ah battery is regarded as 'fully discharged' at no more than 50% of it's original capacity, is this example 50Ah.

Therefore once a battery drops to 80% capacity each cycle will deliver just 30Ah, yet it may now consume 50Ah to recharge it.

 

If the battery has no other faults, like Paste shedding, etc, then it may still hold it's charge for months and appear fully operational, just with limited capacity and degraded efficiency.

If the battery continues to be used, capacity will obviously continue to drop with every cycle, potentially ending up with just 60% capacity, or a cycle of just 10Ah and obviously of little value to anyone.

Such a battery might pass your very limited test process as it doesn't take into account efficiency, charger load (mains or Alternator) or capacity.

 

Typically the best batteries at 5 years old may be down to less than 60% capacity (just 10Ah available per cycle) and suffer severe Grid growth (corrosion), yet may not have shed any paste that would cause shorting of the plates. As a result the battery will be exhausted but may still hold it's charge.

 

 

It is physically impossible for a budget habitation battery that has undergone typical use to be 'perfect' at 2 years of age let alone 5.

 

 

The industry might regard a battery as exhausted when it drops to 80% capacity, but we regard them as past it once the load they place on the charger becomes intolerable.

Hence why we have spent so much time trying to help people choose the best batteries and replace them before they cause any damage.

 

 

If you think the Calira is unique, then how come every Motorhome forum is full of exactly the same claims for all chargers, regardless of the country of origin, technology, make or age?

Go on an Autosleepers Forum and see what they say about Sargent chargers, where incidentally the likes of the Sargent EC325 are among the best in the world.

Go on the Burstner forum and read about the Reich e-box.

Go on the Hymer forum and read about the Schaudt Elektroblock.

Go on the Swift Forums and read about the Nordelettronica

 

All well made quality units.

 

And then maybe answer why Alternator failure is a bigger issue for low mileage Motorhomes than it is for commercial vans or lorries that cover millions of miles?

It wouldn't be people using habitation batteries past their best and overloading the unit would it?

 

 

 

 

 

[Auditor]

I really do know all of that, but still regard the Calira charging system as unreliable, because of all the failures, that have been documented. In my experience, there will almost certainly be many more instances, that we haven't heard about.

 

My point is, that my Amperor, along with other alternatives, is much more robust, and reliable.

This has proved to be a better, and cheaper alternative, than putting trust in a problematic system, that might let us down, at any time.

 

In the real world, we need to have confidence, that systems are robust enough, to meet our needs.

Ordinary users shouldn't need to be that technically knowledgeable, in order to use their motorhomes, without constant failures.

In general, electronics, have, given us many improvements, from the automotive industry, but still have a long way to go, regarding reliability issues.

The pages of just about every forum,are testament to this.

[aandncaravan]

For someone who supposedly understands batteries, trying to make a conventional battery last 11 years seems a strange thing to do?

To understand the chemistry and then deliberately run a battery for 6 years after it's exhausted, deliberately placing a massive load on the charger, which is already overloaded with an overlarge battery bank is an odd action,

To then complain that the unit is rubbish because it won't suffer such exceptional abuse is just unbelievable.

 

 

If you take any unit outside it's design, it will fail.

Calira clearly prints on the units lid it will ONLY support a total battery bank of 200Ah. Never ever seen a broken unit that didn't have less than 220Ah habitation batteries + 90Ah Starter battery.

310Ah is way over 200Ah. If you overload the charger and/or ask it to cope with poor batteries there will be Tears.

 

We were once sent a broken Calira 30/20 that had 2 cooling fans fitted because -

"it gets really, really hot charging up the 4 batteries".

The owner posted these extra cooling fans as a 'Fix' on the forums!!!!

 

You will probably find it is still around on the Knaus or Lunar forum somewhere..

 

 

Calira print the capabilities on the top of the charger for a reason. That doesn't require a technical degree to understand.

You can't abuse a unit by ignoring it's clearly defined limits and then complain it isn't reliable.

 

The Calira 30/20 and 38/20 are well made, strong units, as evidenced by your overloaded unit lasting for 5 trouble free years.

 

 

But you are right that owners will go on ignoring a chargers limitations, overloading them and then complaining. Which brings us back to what I said earlier, that we no longer repair the Calira for this very reason.