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Solar Panles, Aircon and Generators


TheEscapist

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Hello everyone

 

I’m picking up my Carthago Liner for Two in a few weeks.

 

It has most things and I’m adding roof air con, solar panels and a 3rd leisure battery.

 

I’m concerned however about runn8ng the air con (I’ll be in some hot places this summer) so should I fit a generator in the scooter garage?

 

Also, any advice on the type of solar panels and air con?

 

All advice re electrics to get self sufficient really welcome from you seasoned travelers. I’m really interested as what works and doesn’t on the road. Note I won’t be on sites with others too often. Looking for the quiet off the beaten track lifestyle.

 

Best wishes

 

Paul

 

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Paul, To elaborate on the above comments, the Dometic 1700 Roof Aircon unit draws about 2.7amps at 230v and around 150amps at 12.5v from a '12v' battery bank.

 

With a 300Ah battery bank (3 x 100Ah batteries) that would give you a 1 hour running time from the batteries, assuming you only discharged the batteries down to the recommended 50% Depth Of Discharge.

The aircon unit would be drawing about 50amps from each battery, when the ideal for maximum life time is only about 20amps.

 

Therefore the Aircon running time would be about one hour and that one hour run time would significantly hammer the batteries, probably leading to a life time of months, not years, so a £400 annual battery running cost should be factored into the equation..

 

Running a typical motorhome Air con unit from a generator would also place a big load on the generator, which would need to be a minimum 2,000watts.

If you require reliablity a 3.000 watt unit would be advisable as a continuous 1,700 watt load on a 2,000 watt generator in hot temperatures is pushing it very,very hard.

Fuel costs will not be insignificant.

 

A 1,700watt aircon unit will be noisy, It is generally suggested that the noise is to much to sleep with, for example.

Add to that the generator roaring outside and you may find, exactly as suggested above, that your planned route isn't going to be an easy one?.

 

If you want to power the aircon from Solar then you would require about 28 x 100watt Solar panels, and obviously that would only then function during bright sunlight, also not really practical.

 

 

 

If you want aircon in high ambient temperatures, you are pretty much restricted to permanent 230v EHU.

 

 

 

 

 

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aandncaravan - 2019-03-07 10:05 AM

 

Paul, To elaborate on the above comments, the Dometic 1700 Roof Aircon unit draws about 2.7amps at 230v and around 150amps at 12.5v from a '12v' battery bank.

 

With a 300Ah battery bank (3 x 100Ah batteries) that would give you a 1 hour running time from the batteries, assuming you only discharged the batteries down to the recommended 50% Depth Of Discharge.

The aircon unit would be drawing about 50amps from each battery, when the ideal for maximum life time is only about 20amps.

 

Therefore the Aircon running time would be about one hour and that one hour run time would significantly hammer the batteries, probably leading to a life time of months, not years, so a £400 annual battery running cost should be factored into the equation..

 

Running a typical motorhome Air con unit from a generator would also place a big load on the generator, which would need to be a minimum 2,000watts.

If you require reliablity a 3.000 watt unit would be advisable as a continuous 1,700 watt load on a 2,000 watt generator in hot temperatures is pushing it very,very hard.

Fuel costs will not be insignificant.

 

A 1,700watt aircon unit will be noisy, It is generally suggested that the noise is to much to sleep with, for example.

Add to that the generator roaring outside and you may find, exactly as suggested above, that your planned route isn't going to be an easy one?.

 

If you want to power the aircon from Solar then you would require about 28 x 100watt Solar panels, and obviously that would only then function during bright sunlight, also not really practical.

 

 

 

If you want aircon in high ambient temperatures, you are pretty much restricted to permanent 230v EHU.

 

 

 

 

Hi ans thanks so much for a really helpful post.

 

So basically I agree I seem to be limited to getting air con fitted and then plugging in when I need it.

 

I have three questions:

 

1. Is is possible to keep a motorhome like mine reasonably cool at night using fans - at least as low as outside - with fans and open windows or do they swelter?

 

2. At home I have inverter air con which is very quiet and uses less energy. Is this available for motorhome s yet?

 

3. Aren’t there some ‘silent’ generators? I will, e sleeping at the front over the cab and have the generator whirring in the scooter garage around 6-7m away so I’m not right on it.

 

Best wishes

 

Paul

 

 

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Hi, I think your ideas are great, however is it really an essential to have air-con, we have coped with 42 degrees with windows open and ideally a stream to jump in.

Solar panels are a must if your off grid.

Air-con not sure.

Generator will upset anyone your near, I don,t know where you are heading but if your thinking of Spain/ Portugal you'll be lucky to find remote area's with no neighbours.

Have you thought about waste disposal?

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We fitted roof aircon when our MH was new and I now regret it - it's too noisy to use overnight and although we do use it occasionally when on EHU,it doesn't cool the MH enough to justify its weight - which in ourcase makes a hole our payload. Ours is slightly lower capacity that the one you are considering be even with a bigger one you would need at least two roof aircon units to cool a MH your size effectively.

 

Our solution is open MH windows at night (if park securly) and 4 inch battery powered fans on the bedside table, blowing air across our heads. These are quiet (a gentle hum) and last about six nights per set of two D batteries, so well worthwhile.

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TheEscapist - 2019-03-07 9:25 AM

 

aandncaravan - 2019-03-07 10:05 AM

 

Paul, To elaborate on the above comments, the Dometic 1700 Roof Aircon unit draws about 2.7amps at 230v and around 150amps at 12.5v from a '12v' battery bank.

 

With a 300Ah battery bank (3 x 100Ah batteries) that would give you a 1 hour running time from the batteries, assuming you only discharged the batteries down to the recommended 50% Depth Of Discharge.

The aircon unit would be drawing about 50amps from each battery, when the ideal for maximum life time is only about 20amps.

 

Therefore the Aircon running time would be about one hour and that one hour run time would significantly hammer the batteries, probably leading to a life time of months, not years, so a £400 annual battery running cost should be factored into the equation..

 

Running a typical motorhome Air con unit from a generator would also place a big load on the generator, which would need to be a minimum 2,000watts.

If you require reliablity a 3.000 watt unit would be advisable as a continuous 1,700 watt load on a 2,000 watt generator in hot temperatures is pushing it very,very hard.

Fuel costs will not be insignificant.

 

A 1,700watt aircon unit will be noisy, It is generally suggested that the noise is to much to sleep with, for example.

Add to that the generator roaring outside and you may find, exactly as suggested above, that your planned route isn't going to be an easy one?.

 

If you want to power the aircon from Solar then you would require about 28 x 100watt Solar panels, and obviously that would only then function during bright sunlight, also not really practical.

 

 

 

If you want aircon in high ambient temperatures, you are pretty much restricted to permanent 230v EHU.

 

 

 

 

Hi and thanks so much for a really helpful post.

 

So basically I agree I seem to be limited to getting air con fitted and then plugging in when I need it.

 

I have three questions:

 

1. Is is possible to keep a motorhome like mine reasonably cool at night using fans - at least as low as outside - with fans and open windows or do they swelter?

 

2. At home I have inverter air con which is very quiet and uses less energy. Is this available for motorhome s yet?

 

3. Aren’t there some ‘silent’ generators? I will, e sleeping at the front over the cab and have the generator whirring in the scooter garage around 6-7m away so I’m not right on it.

 

Best wishes

 

Paul

 

 

 

1. Motorhomes and Caravans are like ovens in the Sun, even with all the windows open. Ideally you want to find shade to keep the motorhome cool during the day so the heat doesn't 'come out of the motorhome fabric' at night. It is possible but not always ideal.

Last year with the record European temperatures, some where heading for higher altitude sites to keep cool.

The problem with finding shade is that you are also shading the Solar.

 

2.Your home Inverter aircon runs on 230v, probably at 3 amps, so even that would use a huge amount of 12volt amps.

 

3. Yes there are some quiet generators, the tiny Honda EU10i, which when put under a rain cover and located 'in a hedge' are pretty unobtrusive, but big generators need big engines.

 

If you plan on having the generator in the motorhome garage the sound will resonate through the floor and be even louder than one located on the ground in the open.

You well need to ventilate the Garage to let out the exhaust fumes and allow in Oxygen for the engine, so I am guessing you envisage the Garage door will be left open?

 

 

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Why go to high temp areas in summer we stay in areas with manageable temps during summer saving hotter areas for winter Spain, Portugal, Morocco for winter.

Theres no such thing as a silent generator when I first started I thought I'd need one and bought a small Honda which is supposed to be quiet when on tick over it was only reasonably quiet as soon as any load was put on it it could only be described as noisy after first 6 mths I sold it again as we where never anywhere we could use it with out annoying neighbours and you'll need one with 3 time the output of a small 1000kw honda

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The Truma fitted to our Adria Coral, has a cool blown air facility which works quite well in hot weather.

 

Heat control has to be set to zero and hot water switched off for it to work.

 

It’s very low draw in power, we only have a single 100ah battery and 85W solar, and have no issues off grid.

 

Maybe your new van has a similar system ?

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A classic AC is useless wildcamping for all the reasons mentioned above, but can be nice when plugged in and stationary for days. I've only ever used ours on 2 nights over the past 4 years. It came with the van and we never got round to removing it. An evaporative cooling system will be less energy demanding but is only useful in climates with low relative humidity. You don't want to make it more humid at 35°C and over 50% which is pretty much everywhere in Europe.

 

So basically, forget AC if you want to be self sufficient. Park in the shade, install some quiet roof fans to suck hot air out of the van and get used to the heat.

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For the last couple of years we have been very happy with a portable evaporative cooler that runs efficiently on 12v or 240v and keeps the temperature down in our Autotrail Arapaho - we only really use it overnight but it does the job in Spain etc in the summer.

 

Its the type supplied by the people on the following link. Cost about £330 including adaptors etc. We bought ours at the National Motorhome show at Peterborough previously - and at a show deal price.

 

This is a cheap and cheerful and IMHO practical solution for touring.

 

 

 

https://totalcool.co.uk/products/

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From a practical point of view, the answers above tick the boxes. We bought a new Niesmann last year and had the A/C prep done, but the best advice was "try it for a year before you buy the units" So far, certainly no need for A/C and indeed the van even stays warm in winter, with little or no need for heating.

In our last van we used a small 12/240 volt cooling box which worked quite well, or, when in the company of other vans, have the windows and skylights open.

We have three solar panels, and these keep the batteries fully charged, and using the inverter for hairdryer, toaster etc when off grid, was no problem. As to makes, get the ones that are already supplied, and get the dealer to fit them. Then you get the guarantee.

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We have a Maxxfan supplied and fitted by RoadPro in the roof light above our beds. it will pull in or push it out, has variable speed and is quiet enough to leave on blowing air over us whilst we sleep with a low power usage.

 

Not as good as air con but good enough for us but we tend not to be in very hot places intentionally but for us it copes,

alan

 

PS We'll be at the Carthago Owners agm rally in May at Matlock if you want a look

 

 

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witzend - 2019-03-07 11:56 AM

 

Why go to high temp areas in summer we stay in areas with manageable temps during summer saving hotter areas for winter Spain, Portugal, Morocco for winter.

Theres no such thing as a silent generator when I first started I thought I'd need one and bought a small Honda which is supposed to be quiet when on tick over it was only reasonably quiet as soon as any load was put on it it could only be described as noisy after first 6 mths I sold it again as we where never anywhere we could use it with out annoying neighbours and you'll need one with 3 time the output of a small 1000kw honda

 

I'm kind of getting to that conclusion....

 

We have our home in Spain so maybe it's best to explore the north of Europe in Summer and keep the southern countries for Spring and Autumn. Makes sense to try not to kill the heat with air-con but avoid it in the first place!

 

Best wishes

 

Paul

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TheEscapist - 2019-03-09 11:35 AM

 

witzend - 2019-03-07 11:56 AM

 

Why go to high temp areas in summer we stay in areas with manageable temps during summer saving hotter areas for winter Spain, Portugal, Morocco for winter.

Theres no such thing as a silent generator when I first started I thought I'd need one and bought a small Honda which is supposed to be quiet when on tick over it was only reasonably quiet as soon as any load was put on it it could only be described as noisy after first 6 mths I sold it again as we where never anywhere we could use it with out annoying neighbours and you'll need one with 3 time the output of a small 1000kw honda

 

I'm kind of getting to that conclusion....

 

We have our home in Spain so maybe it's best to explore the north of Europe in Summer and keep the southern countries for Spring and Autumn. Makes sense to try not to kill the heat with air-con but avoid it in the first place!

 

Best wishes

 

Paul

 

Now that is sensible thinking. We are in southern Spain, and head North when it gets too hot!

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MartinP - 2019-03-07 8:14 PM

 

For the last couple of years we have been very happy with a portable evaporative cooler that runs efficiently on 12v or 240v and keeps the temperature down in our Autotrail Arapaho - we only really use it overnight but it does the job in Spain etc in the summer.

 

Its the type supplied by the people on the following link. Cost about £330 including adaptors etc. We bought ours at the National Motorhome show at Peterborough previously - and at a show deal price.

 

This is a cheap and cheerful and IMHO practical solution for touring.

 

 

 

https://totalcool.co.uk/products/

 

Fantastic tip, Martin!

 

We like humid air too so ideal....

 

Thanks

 

Paul

 

 

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Aircon for me every time. Quite a lot of myth about them. We have had Dometic aircon fitted to 4 motorhomes and they have all worked welll. I'm talking about Greece, Italy, Croatia etc in July/August. The key is to get the correct size unit for the size of your motorhome. A 1700 will only work effectively on a van up to 6m. There is a massive difference between the outside temperature and the inside of a motorhome with aircon, Having said this, if you don't cover the windscreen, keep opening the doors etc then naturally it looses its effectiveness. As for the noise we have never found that a problem. The units these days make a lot less noise. Apparently the Truma units are supposed to be very quiet, I'm considering one for our new Challenger Vany PVC. Moving north in the summer is great for those that don't work, I don't have that option at the moment, and have to work! Only another seven years to go!
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We dont even have cab aircon in our ageing Kontiki. After a few weeks you acclimatise I find. I dont know if tis because our van is a luton which shades the front with no big screen but it never gets that unbearable inside. The key as has been said is to avoid the far south of Europe in July and August but even in France it can get pretty hot during those months so the key is elevation (Altitude). If there is a bit of a heatwave head for higher ground which is often pretty easy in France, southern Germany or northern Italy for example. Above 3000ft it can still be thirty degrees during the day which is great for swimming or scootering but come the evening you lose a lot of that sticky heat that keeps you awake and the higher the better.

 

Ive been in the Alps in August and woke up freezing and had to put the fire on but by mid day its scorching.

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TheEscapist - 2019-03-13 4:40 PM

 

Does anyone have experience of fuel-cell technology. It's not cheap but it claims to be more efficient than solar panels.

 

https://www.efoy-comfort.com/benefits#c_238

 

If it lasts a long time and takes the place of a couple of solar panels it might e worth it....

 

Paul

 

Interesting review on Efoy fuel cells.

 

https://www.panbo.com/testing-the-efoy-comfort-fuel-cell/

 

 

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This is a "warts and all" discussion :

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/L-ion-batteries-C-MC-mag-Oct-18/50382/

 

It starts off with a discussion on Lithium but then covers eFoy,

Including the little known fact, that in the small print it states that charger output power can drop below 70% in quite a short space of time.

 

The good news is the unit can be rebuilt every so often to restore the lost power, but it costs an arm and a leg.

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