Smudger50 Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 Hi All First post We have recently changed our motorhome Tribute 725 T on Ford Transit and does not have a solar panel on roof unlike our old one . We have had Cobra alarm system installed and a Rewire tracker which I can highly recommend . My problem being draining the starter battery , so I have bought a 50w fold out solar panel and connected the crocodile clips direct to the starter battery under the drivers seat . I can monitor the battery voltage with a plug in meter in the cigarette lighter. Right now the problem a bit long winded I know sorry , the starter battery is flat and solar panel appears to be doing nothing , has anyone got any ideas to what I'm doing wrong or solutions . ?? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 I'm not sure if this is relevant, (edited to add, probably not as I think your build is on an FWD Transit) but: ..on the previous model Transit (which yours might be) it was common for the RWD (and some FWD) versions to be factory-fitted with two batteries, one specifically for starting the vehicle, and the other for working the vehicle systems. (We're not talking leisure battery here). With the ignition turned off, the "starting battery" was completely isolated from the "systems battery", and only the latter was supposed to be in use. This was designed to protect the starter battery whilst still allowing a reasonable level of power use whilst stationary. Depending on where the alarm and tracker have been tapped in to your electrics, there is a chance this is using the "vehicle battery" for supply, but you have connected your charger to the "systems battery" (which will be isolated from the other). I'm not sure whether this system has been carried through onto the current RWD Transit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger50 Posted May 14, 2018 Author Share Posted May 14, 2018 Hi Thanks for your reply and info. After reading your post I felt sure that I was connecting to the wrong battery. So after googling battery locations and watching you tube went up to van to have a look . There is only one battery under drivers seat and no second battery to be found anywhere so I can only assume one battery does everything . Not sure why solar panel not charging unless draw on battery is greater than the power going in from 50w solar panel. .? Many Thanks for your help Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 It's unlikely that at this time of year the draw is greater than a 50w panel can supply unless the panel is getting very little light. How long have you had the panel connected? Have you checked the voltage across the crocodile clips to ensure there's not a problem with panel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger50 Posted May 14, 2018 Author Share Posted May 14, 2018 Hi The panel is brand new and I have checked the voltage across the crocodile clips (12v) It has been connected about a month now ? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Smudger@50 - 2018-05-14 8:59 PM The panel is brand new and I have checked the voltage across the crocodile clips (12v) If your 12 V is actually 12.0 V then the panel is not charging and all you are measuring is a pretty flat battery! As I understand, you should be measuring in excess of 13 V to get any meaningful charge from your panel. If I'm wrong then I'm sure others will correct me, but I'm pretty certain your 12 V is not charging! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Check across crocodile clips with nothing connected, for a 50w panel I would expect this to be around 18v, there should be a data plate confirming this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger50 Posted May 15, 2018 Author Share Posted May 15, 2018 Thanks Keith ?? For the info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger50 Posted May 15, 2018 Author Share Posted May 15, 2018 Thanks Colin I'm on the case and I'm going to check data plate on back of panel today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Smudger, Are you sure it is the Solar Panel failing to work, as opposed to a tired Starter battery that is Self Discharging faster than power goes in? In Spring a 50w Solar Panel behind a Glass Windscreen (which I assume is where it is) won't be able to provide enough power for a Cobra Alarm, a Tracker and a tired battery. Even if the Starter battery was previously ok, if it has now run completely flat, it is almost certain to have suffered damage. I would suggest you get the battery tested : Charge it fully first, leave it a week and then get it tested. Why didn't they wire the Alarm and Tracker from the habitation battery? Even if it still ran the habitation battery flat, you would at least be able to start the van? Because your Starter Battery is 'cycling' (supplying power to the alarm over night, then charging back up in the day) sometimes deeply, it is working differently to the way a standard Car/Van Starter battery is designed to do. The best approach might be to replace it with a Dual Purpose Starter/Leisure battery that also Deep Cycles. Like the Bosch L5/Varta LFD ranges which should give longer lifetime. On the last Transit (Hymer) we did that had a single battery under the drivers seat there was a LFD90 sized battery fitted, on the twin battery set-ups, 2 x Varta LFD 75's work well. Check which sized battery you have before you buy a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 colin - 2018-05-14 10:01 PM Check across crocodile clips with nothing connected, for a 50w panel I would expect this to be around 18v, there should be a data plate confirming this. Whilst the panel itself might produce such voltage, for continuous use of a 50W panel a charge controller/solar regulator is really required, which would limit the final charging voltage to something around the 14V level to avoid damaging the battery. I would expect (but it is dangerous to assume) that most folding panels sold would probably incorporate at least a simple regulator. I have always found that, in this case, you can't measure the output voltage across the (regulated) wires without the panel being "on-load". i.e. it should be connected to the battery terminals, and any voltage increase measured at the terminals. If such a controller/regulator is fitted, you thus won't see 18V at the battery terminals for a working panel, but closer to 14V. The regulator should also incorporate a blocking diode or its equivalent function to avoid reverse current-flow into the panel in the circumstances where the battery voltage is greater than the output voltage from the panel (e.g. overnight). (If a controller is fitted, then it *will* incorporate this function). The most likely issue is a faulty panel or battery, but it would be worthwhile checking for the existence of a regulator (in case the unit was designed to be used with an external one) since long-term connection of an unregulated panel is likely to have damaged the battery through a combination of overvoltage and reverse current-flow. It might be worthwhile posting a link to the details of the panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger50 Posted May 15, 2018 Author Share Posted May 15, 2018 Hi Thankyou both for your info and possible answers. The solar panel it self has a built in regulator , when I connect multi meter to crocodile clips without any load the voltage reads 12v. Data plate on back of panel reads 18v so does that mean I should see 18v output ? .Dont know why alarm and tracker were fed from starter battery as leisure battery would of definitely been the better option . When we bought the van back in Feb dealer informed me that both batteries had been " drop tested " and we're in good condition , but I think I need to get it checked since it has drained completely and now unable to hold charge . Thankyou all for your input and advice , I'm going to get battery checked this weekend and talking to the dealer that sold me the panel . Great place for discussions and getting advice Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 18v is the output of panel to regulator, I've never checked the open circuit voltage of a regulator so can't advise what that would be. You could take another battery (maybe your car battery) check voltage on morning of sunny day, connect panel and check voltages during the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 The regulator voltage output should be in the same range as a standard battery charger. I would expect a relatively unsophisticated unit on such a folding panel, so roughly in the region of 13.5-14.5V (when the battery is not fully charged). However, as already stated, (unlike the open-circuit measurement direct from the panel) I've never been able to measure the open-circuit voltage on my units, as the regulator has needed to be attached to a load (the battery) to pass current. I'm wary of saying this is the case with all regulators, as I have limited practical experience of such units, but the 12V open-circuit measurement concerns me a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagey Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Robinhood - 2018-05-16 8:06 AM The regulator voltage output should be in the same range as a standard battery charger. I would expect a relatively unsophisticated unit on such a folding panel, so roughly in the region of 13.5-14.5V (when the battery is not fully charged). However, as already stated, (unlike the open-circuit measurement direct from the panel) I've never been able to measure the open-circuit voltage on my units, as the regulator has needed to be attached to a load (the battery) to pass current. I'm wary of saying this is the case with all regulators, as I have limited practical experience of such units, but the 12V open-circuit measurement concerns me a bit. this is how it was told to me by the solar supplier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Couple of things. I don't have any experience of suitcase panels with built in regs. With a standard regulator there are two (or more) outputs, one of which is a load and it outputs 12v. When connecting up a panel you will normally connect regulator to battery first then connect panel to regulator, this doesn't seem possible with a suitcase model, not sure if keeping it closed whilst connecting then opening it up is way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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