Specialist Sat-Navs Garmin 660LMT Any Good ?? and Sorry

[HymerVan]

I SHOULD HAVE SEARCHED FIRST this topic has been well covered recently.

Nonetheless any further comments would be appreciated.

 

I am considering purchasing for European travel a new sat-nav whilst keeping my current Garmin 1490 LMT as a spare.

The above model claims to be able to route taking account of vehicle size parameters and also other data such as an ACSI directory. My current Garmin works very well but sometimes takes us on "mad" deviations from route (usually identified and disregarded but not always) and we have sometimes found ourselves on very narrow or challenging routes. That said our van is relatively small and narrow.

My question is this is it worthwhile paying a premium of £100-£200 for this device.

Do the size parameters work in the real world or will they just always send us down main roads and are the additional "directories" any help ?

Apologies if this has been covered before but technology evolves. We are in general aware of sat-navs limitations and do use maps as well !

 

 

[david lloyd]

I am also considering replacing my ageing TomTom 720 Go which has served us well. In one of the previous threads I too explained some of the difficulties I had with the (then) new Garmin Nuvi and eventually returned it getting a full refund then purchased the TomTom. We all have our personal preferences and may find one particular make suits us better than another - bit like buying a motorhome.

 

However, if I do change I am presently leaning toward the TomTom Trucker (there are two variants - the 5000 and 6000 denoting screen size) which has the capability of using it for a variety of vehicles from car to truck where you can input vehicle size and weight. There is also a pedestrian facility which may prove useful when visiting places. I am used to TomTom and find the operating system easy to use, I like the computer interface for downloading POI sets and my present 720 usually picks sensible routes.

 

David

[DJA]

Firstly the new Nav4 units from Tomtom including the Truck version have an operating system totally different to the old units unit. The menus etc all all very different to what you are used to. Therefore you will find that everything your used to has gone out the window. its like learning a new manufacturers unit.

 

That said I have got the Garmin unit you mentioned and I would comment as follows:-

 

The information the unit gives you as you travel along is certainly more detailed then your existing and current TT units most of which I like. This information includes Cross Winds, Gradients and Sharp Bends for example. Whilst interesting I am not sure this is necessary if you are studying the road ahead of you .

 

Its search facility is better than TT's and you can add your own POI files if you want.

 

It definitely changes the routes it suggests dependant on the size of the vehicle that you input.

 

My concern is the routing which in the immediate vacinity of where I live is poor ot diabolical. It largely ignores a main A road or directs me through a shopping car park. Following a recent map update they have tried to sort out a problem I told them about. Unfortunately now rather than use a stretch of road I suggested and a big roundabout outside a Large Supermarket it asks me to do a "U" turn 70 yards before the roundabout. So because of this poor routing, along with others I could mention, when I know the area I am left wondering about what it will ask me to do whem I am away from home which is what we get them for.

 

I think I have to say that if you have experienced routing problems with an existing Garmin this, whilst giving you different routes, will also throw up some errors. It has been suggested that if you use it in conjunction with Basecamp you can minimise the errors. I tried that and both the unit and Bascamp asked me to use a road which is one car wide through a residential error with the odd sleeping poloiceman rather than the travel by good roads for about 200 yards further. Basecamp was in RV mode.

 

If you have an older TT unit one thing you could check is whether or not you could load the Camper Caravan map on it which will mean the operating system is the same as you are used to.

 

Here is a list of compatiable units

 

GO 820/825 devices with the serial prefixes: FA, FB, FT, FU, and FY

 

VIA devices with the serial prefixes: AR, AS, AU, AV, AW, AX, BM, BN, BO, BP, BS, BT, BQ, FL, and FN

 

START devices with the serial prefixes: AO, AY, BK, BL, WM, WN, and WO

 

GO devices with the serial prefixes: FQ, SJ, SM, SP, SR, ST, and SQ

 

Doug

 

 

 

 

 

[david lloyd]

Hi Doug, I know we had some of this conversation in an earlier thread.

 

I didn't realise there were caravan specific, downloadable maps for certain TT's. Mine does not have lifetime maps and I have just been offered a years maps for about £29 - did that last year so may just miss it this year.

 

However, my Go720 isn't on your list and the serial number starts with M - not sure if this is another indicator of its age as all the ones you quote now have two preceding letters!

 

I know the TT Trucker is quite expensive at around £250 (although I have just got the Caravan Club magazine and they are still selling the Avtex branded Garmin at £299) for the 5000 but given your experiences of Garmin on roads known to you and my own experiences some years ago I don't feel inclined to want to go down that route (pardon the pun).

 

But, from what you say, it would still mean me getting used to a different operating system/menu etc but if it's anything like my present TomTom it should be user friendly and fairly intuitive.

 

David

[paul_richardson]

DJA - 2016-10-22 4:26 PM

 

My concern is the routing which in the immediate vacinity of where I live is poor ot diabolical. It largely ignores a main A road or directs me through a shopping car park. Following a recent map update they have tried to sort out a problem I told them about. Unfortunately now rather than use a stretch of road I suggested and a big roundabout outside a Large Supermarket it asks me to do a "U" turn 70 yards before the roundabout. So because of this poor routing, along with others I could mention, when I know the area I am left wondering about what it will ask me to do whem I am away from home which is what we get them for.

 

Doug

 

 

Hi Doug,

 

I have a Garmin 760 "campervan" Sat Nav and it constantly sends us down unsuitable roads, it's so bad that I have tried to send it back, but Garmin won't accept that there is anything wrong.

 

On a recent trip to Southampton It took us on a detour which took us about an hour to get back to a sensible road. We now HAVE to take a map with us or my wife uses Google on her phone to find out where we should be going.

 

I wonder if the routing on a Tom Tom is likely to be any better? or maybe we should just rely on Google.

 

Regards,

 

Paul

[silverback]

well i have totally got a differant opinion on the garmin 760 it is brill had it for 2 years never sent me anywhere it shouldn't been spain 3 month, iceland 3 month norway 4 month and all the other countries germany denmark france holland uk etc never any problems, i would suggest politely that you have some settings wrong eg MH length and width and navigation preferances

Jonathan

[DJA]

Hi silverback

 

I am pretty confident that I have the settings on my unit correctly done.

 

I assume you have not used your unit recently to travel to the Camping and Caravan Campsite in Moffat which is at DG10 9DY. When I approached Moffat the other month it asked me to turn left off the A701 into Church Place. It still does with the latest Map update. Fortuneately I knew the final part of the route so ignored its suggestion.

 

I would suggest you test that route on your unit then view Church Place on Google Earth where you will see it is a dead end to the garages for the row of houses on the main road.

 

My comment re the routing is that where I live close to London the routing suggested is awful and so I have to assume this could be similar elsewhere in areas I don't know. I accept that all units will make the odd mistake but in the Garmins case it seems significantly worse than Tomtoms I have had in the past. This is a pity as I thing many of the other features of the unit are excellent.

 

Doug

[Noody]

This is very interesting for me and although I have to be regarded as an occasional user I rely heavily on my TT. It's a Go 950 (Of the top of my head)

 

We rely heavily these days on couriers and we live off the beaten track. I don't trust my TT other than on main routes and I can some bizarre stories about weird diversions that were not the shortest route so in my cynical mind TT are spending more money on marketing that they should when the IT side needs investment.

 

My navigator who is always right other than when she is wrong uses a Google system on her iPhone which conveniently integrates with the VW Golf and Beatle we have on the hands free system. It's better than my TT by miles which is an embaresment.

 

The Google system updates itself without cost,for the TT system I'm constantly reminded I need to update my maps at quite an expense. I did it once, same-same-old road changes the TT system hasn't caught up with in seven years.

 

[paul_richardson]

I too am certain all of the settings in my Garmin are correct, but it still sends us off the beaten track.

 

I wondered if anyone know of a "proper" sat nav that uses Google, seems like an obvious product to me.

 

Regards,

 

Paul

[Noody]

It's what I was thinking and whilst TT and Garmin are in competition, Google just appears streets ahead.

 

More and more vehicles now have systems that connect to the Google app, it won't be long.before we see changes. I'm not spending any more money on TT or Garmin after my Google experience.

[david lloyd]

Maybe now Google have brought out their own mobile phone perhaps the next move will be a satnav?

 

David

[Bulletguy]

paul_richardson - 2016-10-28 5:25 PM

 

I too am certain all of the settings in my Garmin are correct, but it still sends us off the beaten track.

 

 

Paul,

 

I have both Garmin 760-LMTD "Camper" and TomTom 750 and agree with poster "silverback" about the Garmin.I've never had the problems you experienced. Have you set the vehicle size/height correctly? Also you do know that it needs updating regularly but that doesn't cost anything, just connect it up to your pc and it will recognise if there are any new updates to install.

 

TomTom is good....but restrictive. It doesn't 'read' gps co-ords in certain countries where Garmin will.

[Keithl]

paul_richardson - 2016-10-28 5:25 PM

 

I too am certain all of the settings in my Garmin are correct, but it still sends us off the beaten track.

 

Paul

 

Paul,

 

By any chance do you have it set to 'Shortest Route' rather than 'Fastest Route' as this change will give exactly the results you seem to be experiencing?

 

Keith.

[Noody]

Is that setting also available on TT ?

 

I bet it is, I'm not a complete dumb-clutch with technology but I am slow. Rather my attention span is such that I have to keep going back for another look.

 

However that wouldn't explain us traveling home from Scotland, we are on a stretch of A7 which is the only route possible to get us HOME. TT tells us to turn next left into a range of hills.

 

TT still hasn't identified a road improvement that is ten years old, Google has it.

 

Whilst I wouldn't be without TT because it does hands-free calling from my iPhone just to show slack and lazy the TT system is it still refers to my iPhone as Maureen's iPhone yet both our cars systems understand the change of user.

 

Communications tech is moving so fast that there is little room for slackers, Google system will predominate unless the others get better organised.

 

If you use the Google system presumably because it's live it uses data, if you're in a data shadow or zero service area does it fail or is it just the live updates that fail ?

[DJA]

Hi Bullet guy

 

Can you try the route to C &CC Moffat I mentioned above. Is it okay on your unit. It suggests a route which is impossible on mine, which is totally up todate. Also if you try a route from Meopham Green to Longfield does your take you via the shop parade at the left turn of the A227 onto the B260.

 

Doug

[Bulletguy]

DJA - 2016-10-29 10:05 AM

 

Hi Bullet guy

 

Can you try the route to C &CC Moffat I mentioned above. Is it okay on your unit. It suggests a route which is impossible on mine, which is totally up todate. Also if you try a route from Meopham Green to Longfield does your take you via the shop parade at the left turn of the A227 onto the B260.

 

Doug

 

Hi Doug

 

From my location driving north i come off the A74 > A701 (signed Moffat) > A708 then just before Moffat itself, turn left into RAE ST leading onto HOLM ST then a right off there to the CC site......or at least the post code DG10 9DY which i used.

 

I stopped off at Moffat only last year on my way up to Peterhead and this is worth a mention as it was the first time i'd had a chance to 'road test' my Garmin.

 

I didn't stop on a site. I wild camped overnight on this lay-by just a five minute drive out of Moffat centre on the A70. Plenty of room and the road is very quiet.

 

http://oi64.tinypic.com/2zewh9s.jpg

 

Weather obviously not brilliant when the Google car was there but was lovely and sunny when i was....and what a view.....all for free!! BUT....this is the interesting bit. When i was parked up there i had a 'play around' with my Garmin which showed a small farm nearby (couple of miles away) with provision for six mh's/campers including ehu (if wanted). That didn't display on my TT gps and also isn't listed so can only assume it's privately owned.

 

These are the co-ordinates; N55° 21'49.77" W3° 28'36.98"

 

[DJA]

Hi bulletguy

 

There is one odd thing in what you have said. Rae Sreet is a left hand turn off th A701 but it takes you away from Holm Sreet.

 

On mine it asks you to turn Left into Church Place, which is actually a few yards before you could turn Right onto Holm Street and the A708.. At the end of Church Place it says turn Right into Rae Street and then cross the A701 to take the A708 and eventually the destination. In fact Church Place is a dead end with no access to Rae Street. This routing suggests it thinks there is no right turn off the A701 into Holm Street and the A708.

 

Regarding the campsite you found I suspect it is a site listed in the MHF POI file which is included on the Garmins.

 

Generally the Garmin is good on the long main road sections its the local bits I wonder about.

 

If you try a trip between 15 London Road Gravesend and 11 Pescot Avenue New Barn you get one route but reverse the request and the return route is totally different for part of it. This adds nearly 2 miles on a 4 mile journey. Why will it not use a road in one direction but okay the other way. There are no restrictions on the road and it is used by large lorries constantly.

 

Doug

 

 

[paul_richardson]

Keithl - 2016-10-28 9:14 PM

 

paul_richardson - 2016-10-28 5:25 PM

 

I too am certain all of the settings in my Garmin are correct, but it still sends us off the beaten track.

 

Paul

 

Paul,

 

By any chance do you have it set to 'Shortest Route' rather than 'Fastest Route' as this change will give exactly the results you seem to be experiencing?

 

Keith.

 

 

Hi Keith,

 

I am definitely set to fastest route.

 

The only thing that makes sense to me is if the road speed must be set wrong on some of the "shortcuts" it suggests making it believe it would be quicker to go it's way.

 

Paul

[Bulletguy]

DJA - 2016-10-29 5:16 PM

 

Hi bulletguy

 

There is one odd thing in what you have said. Rae Sreet is a left hand turn off th A701 but it takes you away from Holm Sreet.

 

On mine it asks you to turn Left into Church Place, which is actually a few yards before you could turn Right onto Holm Street and the A708.. At the end of Church Place it says turn Right into Rae Street and then cross the A701 to take the A708 and eventually the destination. In fact Church Place is a dead end with no access to Rae Street. This routing suggests it thinks there is no right turn off the A701 into Holm Street and the A708.

 

Regarding the campsite you found I suspect it is a site listed in the MHF POI file which is included on the Garmins.

 

Generally the Garmin is good on the long main road sections its the local bits I wonder about.

 

If you try a trip between 15 London Road Gravesend and 11 Pescot Avenue New Barn you get one route but reverse the request and the return route is totally different for part of it. This adds nearly 2 miles on a 4 mile journey. Why will it not use a road in one direction but okay the other way. There are no restrictions on the road and it is used by large lorries constantly.

 

Doug

 

 

I forgot to add.....the Meopham Green to Longfield you asked about. Well i tried that but had to guess where in Longfield as there is an avenue and road do i went with the latter.

 

It took me up Wrotham Rd > turn left into The Parade > turn right onto Longfield Road.

 

The bottom line with ALL gps units is never ever take them as Gods Gospel because that much they certainly ain't! And that's where many people go wrong and find themselves in all sorts of obscure places. A look on YouTube will show you some funny ones, usually foreign truckers who should really know better!

 

The problem with gps is people become so self reliant on them.

 

I got "stuck" a few years ago when trying to get through Craiova in Romania. It's quite a large city and i couldn't have hit it at a worse time....1600hr on a weekday so it was rammed with traffic....plus, the weather was roasting hot! My route took me up a road which turned out to be closed due to roadworks.....but no indication of where there was a diversion! Three times i tried to get out and three times it kept bringing me back to the same damn point! Then some common sense logic kicked in and this time when i doubled back, instead of turning right as the gps told me, i turned left, drove a few miles up, then took a left which brought me down to the main through road i needed......BINGO!!!

 

I'll never forget that place because once i got to the outskirts i called in at a large filling station to tank up and spotted they had a shop and coffee bar. The pump attendant was brilliant. A local queued up behind me was getting ratty because i'd been on the pump so long so the attendant shouted (or swore!!) at him in Romanian and told him to use one of the other pumps!! He told me i could park up and have a coffee and something to eat which was most welcome. They even washed my van down whilst i was there!! Needless to say i spent some money at that place as they deserved it!

[DJA]

I certainly agree with you Bulletguy that you should not take what a GPS tells you as Gospel.

 

You have mentioned The Parade which is the error the Garmin makes. The Parade is a Parking slot in front of a row of shops. The Garmin directs you through it then returns you to the start of The Parade and directs you to take the road to Longfield it ignored when you first got to it.

 

For some reason the Garmin will not direct you along the A227 unless you are on it. It detours via the M25 or the A228. It may be a timing thing and if it is it can only be very very marginal and not the routes I would take..

 

Personally if I could have the level of routing I have usually experienced with Tomtom's on my Garmin it would result in an excellent unit which I would have no hesitation in recommending.

 

Doug.

 

 

[Bulletguy]

DJA - 2016-10-29 7:33 PM

 

I certainly agree with you Bulletguy that you should not take what a GPS tells you as Gospel.

 

You have mentioned The Parade which is the error the Garmin makes. The Parade is a Parking slot in front of a row of shops. The Garmin directs you through it then returns you to the start of The Parade and directs you to take the road to Longfield it ignored when you first got to it.

 

For some reason the Garmin will not direct you along the A227 unless you are on it. It detours via the M25 or the A228. It may be a timing thing and if it is it can only be very very marginal and not the routes I would take..

 

Personally if I could have the level of routing I have usually experienced with Tomtom's on my Garmin it would result in an excellent unit which I would have no hesitation in recommending.

 

Doug.

 

 

Yeah i've just had a look at the Meopham/Longfield road on Google Earth. I've no idea what going on there with Garmin and it could be worth a call asking them about it. The one saving grace factor though is as you approach that road, the B260 to Longfield is clearly signed either side!

 

I'd still be curious to hear what Garmin say though.

 

My reason for buying a Garmin in addition to the TT i have is TT doesn't recognise co-ordinates in certain countries as i found out to my cost when i went to Albania. Only Garmin units will. Same with Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo etc....TT doesn't read so i was stuck with using Google maps (when i had internet) and hard mapping i always carry and copying out directions on a sheet. Not much fun when driving solo as i am.

 

When i was in Albania i met a Dutch chap who was off to Mongolia and he had two Garmin units. As he said, TT is no use outside of West and central Europe.

[DJA]

Bulletguy said

 

QUOTE

 

My reason for buying a Garmin in addition to the TT i have is TT doesn't recognise co-ordinates in certain countries as i found out to my cost when i went to Albania. Only Garmin units will. Same with Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo etc....TT doesn't read so i was stuck with using Google maps (when i had internet) and hard mapping i always carry and copying out directions on a sheet. Not much fun when driving solo as i am.

 

When i was in Albania i met a Dutch chap who was off to Mongolia and he had two Garmin units. As he said, TT is no use outside of West and central Europe.QUOTE

 

I think I have heard this before but I can only assume it was with Older Models. I have just searched for Campsites in Serbia and Albania and selected one in each at random which give the coordinates for their positions.

 

I have a Nav4 Tomtom GO5000 and if I put the coordinates in it finds them straight away. Neither the Garmin or Tomtom had the camsites within their database. The only difference is the TT recognises 3 Co-ordinate formats without you having to select the format you are going to use.

 

Doug

[Bulletguy]

DJA - 2016-10-29 11:40 PM

 

I think I have heard this before but I can only assume it was with Older Models. I have just searched for Campsites in Serbia and Albania and selected one in each at random which give the coordinates for their positions.

 

I have a Nav4 Tomtom GO5000 and if I put the coordinates in it finds them straight away. Neither the Garmin or Tomtom had the camsites within their database. The only difference is the TT recognises 3 Co-ordinate formats without you having to select the format you are going to use.

 

Doug

 

Doug

 

My TT is the GO750 Live model and was only a couple of years old at the time. Though it has countries such as Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Albania etc.....it won't read co-ords in any of those countries. The mapping for major roads is there.....but thats all. You get absolutely zero voice commands because it doesn't "know" where it's going (if that makes sense!). As for minor roads, forget it because they aren't even shown!

 

Try these in your TT and let me know what you get,

 

This one is in Serbia. N44° 57‘ 38‘‘ E19° 31‘ 23‘‘

 

and this one in Albania; N41° 55‘ 26‘‘ E19° 32‘ 30‘‘

[DJA]

Hi Bulletguy

The TT GO 750 was released in about 2009 I think and bears no resemblance to the current Nav4 units that they sell. I am not sure when but TT bought their map supplier so it is now inhouse which may explain why their maps are now more detailed over a greater area.

 

In some ways the older units were better operating wise but TT had to change their software following their legal action with Microsoft. They are gradually updating the newer units to incorporate some of the missing old units facilities to add to the newer features they have introduced. Now you just type in the Co-ords in any of 3 formats and you don’t need to have selected a country before inputting a destination.

 

On my GO5000:-

 

The Serbian Co-ords are half way between Zasavica 1 and Zasavica 2 on the road to what I see on Google Earth is the Zasavica Special Nature Reserve, Vojvodina, Serbia

 

The Albanian co-ords take me to Barbullush to a point just off the right hand side of the K1/K29 turning off the SH29. I see on Google Earth this is a campsite.

 

Interestingly if I cut and paste the Co-ords into Google Earth it says it does not recognise them. I must see what I need to do to sort that.

 

Regarding advising Garmin about the routing errors I have already indicated a few of them. The only one they seem to have altered on the latest map update is worse now. I advised that it would not route me in Motorhome Mode using Hall Road Gravesend between the A2 and the big Roundabout outside the Sainsbury Superstore. Also their mapping does not show the new road layout that has existed there for over 2 years. They have not altered the layout but it now produces a route asking you to do a U turn in Hall Road using Pepperhill Lane instead of just going 70 yards to the roundabout. Pepperhill Lane is blocked off with Bollards where it asks you to turn in. A look on Google earth will show you what a stupid and dangerous route it would be.

 

What I find disappointing is that years ago the originators of TT created a system called Mapcodes which you can see details of if you go to the Mapcode website. You can use the system on TT units . A mapcode looks just like a UK Postcode ie your Serbian Co-ords would be srb 8VH.TS3. If you were in Serbia you would not need to input the srb. These codes, which cover the world, are so detailed that if you move a few feet you will have a new code. Not like post codes which can be ½ a mile away from where you want.. This means someone can give you a code which is exactly where their entrance is or even almost a parking slot in their car park. No other makes of GPS use the system although it is a free service to you or I to get codes if we want.

 

Doug

 

 

[Tracker]

Ordnance Survey have developed their sat nav database which they sell to sat nav providers and their revised mapping might be worth either having or waiting for?

 

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/resources/sat-nav-data.html

 

I find a dedicated sat nav much easier to use than a smartphone so I continue to use an old TomTom with outdated maps, with a decent road map when in doubt, and a large dollop of common sense at all times, to avoid obstacles, and funnily enough it seems to work.