weldted Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Hi all new van 4000 kg speed limits France Spain & Portugal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 The Caravan and Motorhome Club summarises current motorhome-related speed-limit data for European countries here (relevant attachments below) https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/overseas-holidays/planning-your-route/european-speed-limits/ More detailed information for France, Spain and Portugal can be found on these links https://www.caravanguard.co.uk/news/french-speed-limits-950/ https://www.eurocampings.co.uk/blog/listing/motorhome-rules-spain-need-bear-mind/ https://www.go-motorhoming.co.uk/content/european-driving-speed-limits-and-regulations-vehicle-weight-motorhomes-and-caravans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 When you go through France ignore the speed limit signs that show 90kph as the actual speed limit is now only 80kph. Just got back and was followed home by a speeding ticket. Clocked doing 86k in but then they take off the 5k tolerance so I was actually done for doing 81k in a 80k zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 That's not so - when there's a 90kmh speed-limit sign, that's what the speed-limit is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Albert Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Derek is quite correct. The French government did a partial backtrac earlier this year by saying that while the 80kph principle remained in place nationally, local government could make the call on whether they through a speed reduction was a good idea on B-roads under their jurisdiction. The French website that lists speed camera tolerances is also confusing leading to the myth that you will be prosecuted for 1KPH over the limit. If you were clocked at 86KPH, that is the speed you were doing. The website simply states that 86KPH minus the 5KPH tolerance is deduction is 81KPH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Wasn't questioning the speed I was clocked at but the speeding fine letter stated that I was doing 86k but I was being fined for doing 81k. Did find the speed signs confusing, jumping between 80k then 90k then back down to 80k so best keep to 80k, safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Fat Albert - 2019-11-21 11:10 AM The French government did a partial backtrac earlier this year by saying that while the 80kph principle remained in place nationally, local government could make the call on whether they through a speed reduction was a good idea on B-roads under their jurisdiction... This 'climb down’ by the French government is referred to in this recent article https://www.thelocal.fr/20191018/hang-on-is-it-80-or-90kmh-france-split-over-speed-limit-on-priority-routes The map suggests which French departments would welcome a return to a 90 km/h limit on their departmental roads and which would prefer to continue with the present regulations that were introduced in July 2018 and are detailed below Since 1 July 2018, the maximum authorized speeds for light vehicles without trailers and motorcycles are as follows in mainland France ? 130 km/h on motorways (110 km/h in case of rain, or 100 km/h in case of rain on sections of motorways where this limit is lower than 130 km/h) 110 km/h on dual carriageway roads separated by a median strip (100 km/h in case of rain) 90 km/h on two-way roads with central separator and on roads or sections without a separator with at least two lanes assigned to the same direction of traffic (80 km/h in case of rain) 80 km/h on bi-directional roads without a central separator 50 km/h in built-up areas. However, this limit can be raised to 70 km/h on sections of road where the access of residents and pedestrian crossings are limited and protected by appropriate devices, or lowered to 30 km/h in residential neighborhoods, around schools, or any place where the 50 km/h speed may seem dangerous. In practice, there are many exceptions and special cases relating to these rules. The 90 km/h:80 km/h regulations relating to French 3-lane roads are likely to most confuse UK motorists regarding speed limits. If a 3-lane road has two lanes dedicated to travel in one direction and one lane dedicated to travel in the other direction, and there’s a solid-line ‘priority’ marking between the two-lane and one-lane parts, the two-lane part will have a 90 km/h speed limit and the one-lane part an 80 km/h limit. But if a 3-lane road has no solid-line markings, the speed limit will be 80 km/h for all three lanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 stevec176 - 2019-11-21 12:18 PM Wasn't questioning the speed I was clocked at but the speeding fine letter stated that I was doing 86k but I was being fined for doing 81k. Did find the speed signs confusing, jumping between 80k then 90k then back down to 80k so best keep to 80k, safer. Good afternoon, You are right in saying that the speed limits are confusing, many, many careful drivers have come home and received a so called fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Derek Uzzell - 2019-11-21 1:49 PM Fat Albert - 2019-11-21 11:10 AM The French government did a partial backtrac earlier this year by saying that while the 80kph principle remained in place nationally, local government could make the call on whether they through a speed reduction was a good idea on B-roads under their jurisdiction... This 'climb down’ by the French government is referred to in this recent article https://www.thelocal.fr/20191018/hang-on-is-it-80-or-90kmh-france-split-over-speed-limit-on-priority-routes The map suggests which French departments would welcome a return to a 90 km/h limit on their departmental roads and which would prefer to continue with the present regulations that were introduced in July 2018 and are detailed below Since 1 July 2018, the maximum authorized speeds for light vehicles without trailers and motorcycles are as follows in mainland France ? 130 km/h on motorways (110 km/h in case of rain, or 100 km/h in case of rain on sections of motorways where this limit is lower than 130 km/h) 110 km/h on dual carriageway roads separated by a median strip (100 km/h in case of rain) 90 km/h on two-way roads with central separator and on roads or sections without a separator with at least two lanes assigned to the same direction of traffic (80 km/h in case of rain) 80 km/h on bi-directional roads without a central separator 50 km/h in built-up areas. However, this limit can be raised to 70 km/h on sections of road where the access of residents and pedestrian crossings are limited and protected by appropriate devices, or lowered to 30 km/h in residential neighborhoods, around schools, or any place where the 50 km/h speed may seem dangerous. In practice, there are many exceptions and special cases relating to these rules. The 90 km/h:80 km/h regulations relating to French 3-lane roads are likely to most confuse UK motorists regarding speed limits. If a 3-lane road has two lanes dedicated to travel in one direction and one lane dedicated to travel in the other direction, and there’s a solid-line ‘priority’ marking between the two-lane and one-lane parts, the two-lane part will have a 90 km/h speed limit and the one-lane part an 80 km/h limit. But if a 3-lane road has no solid-line markings, the speed limit will be 80 km/h for all three lanes. On the question of 3 lane roads, it seemed to me during our recent trip that the French were also confused. In principle, the interpretation seemed to be that on three lane roads (with no physical barrier between traffic travelling in opposite directions), and when travelling in the direction with the overtaking lane, unless there is a 90KPH limit sign, the limit remains at 80KPH. Where there is a 90KPH limit sign, it will usually (but not completely reliably!) be followed by an 80KPH sign as the two lane section reduces back to 1 lane. When travelling in the direction with one lane only, the limit remains at 80KPH unless there is a 90KPH limit signed. We encountered all variants, which is to say a) no speed limit stated at the beginning of the overtaking lane (so 80KPH generally being assumed), b) 90KPH stated at the beginning of the overtaking lane, c) no speed limit stated where the single lane section began, and d) 90KPH stated where the single lane section began. Toll motorways (which we seldom use) are generally 130KPH, but with sections (usually near busy junctions) limited to 110KPH, but non-toll motorways (generally) and non-motorways standard dual carriageways are 110KPH, with some sections having 130KPH limits, while some sections of non-motorway standard dual carriageways limited to 90KPH or (but generally on urban dual carriageways) less. It is also worth noting that imposition of a 70KPH limit on approach to towns is becoming more and more widespread, so that one's speed is reduced from 80KPH to 70KPH to 50KPH on approach, with these limits repeated in reverse order on exit. It seems most towns, and quite a few villages, now have 30KPH zones in their centres and/or near schools etc. Be aware especially that "priority on the right" is still the default rule at any junction where there is no STOP, or CEDEZ LE PASSAGE (give way) sign on the side road (identifiable from the priority road by either a double solid, or double dashed, line across the right hand side of the side road). If any side road (urban or rural) has no such painted markings at its junction with the road you are travelling, traffic coming from your right will expect you to cede them the priority. This applies also in 30KPH zones. Roundabouts suffer from there having been three conventions taught for negotiating them (and signalling while doing so) since their introduction in France, while a number of older drivers have never been taught what to do (and consequently just "wing it"!), as they passed their driving tests before roundabouts were introduced. What is now being taught approximates to what is taught in UK, but the legacy of earlier guidance is visible at almost any roundabout. Treat with caution! :-) My final thought is that at least Garmin's mapping (supplied by Navteq) is currently woefully out of date on speed limits in much of France, so relying on one's sat-nav as an authoritative indication in not wise, and liable to get you a fine. Just keep a sharp lookout for speed limit signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFrenchConnection Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Also remember that in 30kph zones pedestrians have ABSOLUTE priority. They (and we) take great delight in exercising it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 I believe you’ll find that pedestrians in France only have absolute priority over vehicles in an area described and signed as a “zone de rencontre”. Art R. 110-21 of the Code de la Route defines this as follows Zone de rencontre » : section ou ensemble de sections de voies en agglomération constituant une zone affectée à la circulation de tous les usagers. Dans cette zone, les piétons sont autorisés à circuler sur la chaussée sans y stationner et bénéficient de la priorité sur les véhicules. La vitesse des véhicules y est limitée à 20 km/h. Toutes les chaussées sont à double sens pour les cyclistes, sauf dispositions différentes prises par l’autorité investie du pouvoir de police. Les entrées et sorties de cette zone sont annoncées par une signalisation et l’ensemble de la zone est aménagé de façon cohérente avec la limitation de vitesse applicable. It will be seen that the speed-limit in such areas is 20 km/h. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 In addition to Brian Kirby's excellent post; as you drive through small towns and villages you will not only be aware of the increase in 30kph zones and speed humps, but also the route through these places may have been altered so that the main or busiest route through the ville will have stop signs at junctions allowing traffic priority from side rods which sometimes makes negotiating these junctions quite a challenge given the restricted sight lines in many cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 Many thanks for all your info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Basically, better to avoid French roads altogether or be prepared for that thud onto the mat when you get home. Just enjoy yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 stevec176 - 2019-11-22 12:06 PM Basically, better to avoid French roads altogether or be prepared for that thud onto the mat when you get home. Just enjoy yourself. The yellow vests are stirring again and I can't see the new high level speed cameras being any more resistant to being sabotaged than the old ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Talk about second sight! We've just had a friend round for dinner and whilst out working he had passed one of the new anti-vandal speed cameras at Champeaux on the D951 that was totally burnt out. The Gendarmes were stopping everybody apparently having been ordered by senior officers to investigate. He learned at the speed camera cost €60,000 each and was one of 8 of the 14 newly installed in the Charente Department that had been vandalised. Good job I have an alibi! :-) These are the new ones that are attracting the attention of the gilets jaunes: https://www.caradisiac.com/400-radars-de-nouvelle-generation-installes-des-cette-annee-175467.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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