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Steering Diagnostic Advice


BruceM

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So half way through our European tour, and after a two night stop on Stellplaz in exceptionally hot weather I noted that our LHD van’s steering had started to pull slightly to the right.

 

Now back in the UK I thought that I’d do some initial diagnostics before resorting to the garage.

 

- I checked the RHS rear wheel and it moves freely.

- I checked the RHS front wheel and the brake callipers are not binding and the wheel moves freely.

- The tyre pressures on all four wheels are fine and none overheat (tyrepal).

 

So I swopped over the two front wheels.

 

Just been for a drive and the van now pulls slightly to the left.

 

In my mind it implies that there’s an issue with the wheel but there is no obvious damage to it from what I can see.

 

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

Thanks

 

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If, when you spin the front wheels, there’s no sign of either of them being out of true, it sounds like a tyre-wear issue.

 

Try swapping the front and rear wheels. As the tyres on the rear wheels will normally wear ‘flat’, if the motorhome then tracks straight it’s reasonable to assume that there’s something odd about the tyres currently on the front wheels.

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Are you sure it wasn't just 'walking' down the road camber i.e. to the right abroad but to the left here in the UK? I find that a perfectly neutral Ducato chassis has a tendency to do that, worse so on those with a wider rear axle. They tend to track dead ahead on level roads, slightly to the right abroad and to the left in the UK.

 

Personally I tend to notice minor faults/features like that much more when I'm on holiday and a long way from home too, but that's just me.

 

I'd suggest swapping the fronts back over and checking that it doesn't still pull slightly to the left on a UK camber.

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Bruce’s motorhome is 2003 vintage and it might be worth knowing how much mileage the front tyres have done.

 

It’s to be expected that a vehicle may spontaneously ‘wander’ gradually down a road’s camber, but noticably ‘pulling’ in a particular direction is another matter.

 

I’ve never noticed my 2015 Rapido tracking other than straight whether I’m driving on the left or on the right. If I took my hands off the steering wheel on (say) a long straight stretch of motorway, the Rapido would probably gently move down the camber but, in the UK or abroad, I never have to deliberately input effort at the steering wheel to maintain a straight trajectory.

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Re camber

The steering still pulled to the right on the drive back from Dover so I don’t think that is the issue.

 

Re swapping tyres front to back.

I did think that rather than go to that effort (it involves a lot of jacking up and down) , to test the theory I might just temporally replace what appears to be the offending wheel with the spare wheel. However the spare wheel has a ‘camper’ style tyre whilst the front wheels are conventional van tyres. Would putting the ‘camper’ wheel temporarily on one of the front wheels be unwise either due to safety issues or because the lack of tyre similarity would make the steering test invalid?

 

Incidentally and in answer to Derek’s question, the van has done about 78k miles so relatively low mileage and the front tyres are 2012 tyres.

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There could be a problem with the front suspension bushes, the strut assembly or the top bearing on the strut. Unless these parts have been changed at some stage, after 16 years, some or all of these components will be near end of life.

Unless it's found to be a wheel/tyre problem perhaps these areas should be looked at

 

Mike

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BruceM - 2019-09-18 3:48 PM

 

...Incidentally and in answer to Derek’s question, the van has done about 78k miles so relatively low mileage and the front tyres are 2012 tyres.

 

A 78K overall mileage over a 16-year period equates to an annual mileage of 4875. And, for tyres that were fitted in 2012, that might mean they will now have covered some 34,000 miles. OK, that’s very rough maths, but if the 7 year-old front tyres have done anything like 30K miles, they have got to be suspect.

 

I can’t see temporarily replacing the front wheel that you think might be causing the problem with the spare-wheel as an experiment being dangerous merely because the former carries a ‘van’ tyre and the latter a ‘camper’ tyre - but that assumes that the tyre on the spare-wheel has worn ‘flat’. You could try it and see what the effect is, but it should be a more valid test to swap the back wheels for the fronts.

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BruceM - 2019-09-18 3:48 PM.....................However the spare wheel has a ‘camper’ style tyre whilst the front wheels are conventional van tyres. Would putting the ‘camper’ wheel temporarily on one of the front wheels be unwise either due to safety issues or because the lack of tyre similarity would make the steering test invalid?

 

Incidentally and in answer to Derek’s question, the van has done about 78k miles so relatively low mileage and the front tyres are 2012 tyres.

If the front tyres are presently 7 years old (possibly older, depending on how "fresh" they were when fitted), they are nearing (more precisely - at!) the point at which it is recommended they are changed on grounds of age alone.

 

The process of fitting new tyres will involve removing and re-balancing the wheels, and it is quite likely that the recommendation would then be to swap front to rear to get the best tyres on the rear - in line with current thinking. (This assumes that the rears are newer than the fronts.) If all 4 are of the same age, maybe get the present rears checked and, assuming they are pronounced OK, mark these for replacement next year.

 

Re the spare, as that is a Camper, might it possibly be original equipment? If so, it must by now be in the region of 16 years old! Even if it was the best of the tyres that pre-dated those now fitted, it seems it would now be suspect if brought into service, due to its age.

 

Whether or not the pulling to one side is tyre related Bruce, I'm afraid I think you need to consider upping your tyre budget in the near future! Sorry! :-(

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BruceM - 2019-09-18 1:39 PM

So half way through our European tour, and after a two night stop on Stellplaz in exceptionally hot weather I noted that our LHD van’s steering had started to pull slightly to the right.

 

So I swopped over the two front wheels. Just been for a drive and the van now pulls slightly to the left.

 

Drifting according to a camber happens everywhere, on any vehicle, on any tires, don't they, so whats odd about it. You should be pleased that your steering is so sensitive.

 

PS on older vehicles the steering play was so severe that a quarter turn was often needed upon seeing a change in camber direction. (You modern drivers have no idea what real driving was like ! )

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And I'll tell you an even odder story ... In my many interesting years I cycled throughout Europe on solid rubber tires ... which in the UK wore at an angle the suit the camber ... but when in France and beyond it was found that the UK angle thus worn meant I was riding on part 'pointed' tires which gave an even odder feel to the riding and particularly the steering.

 

This also occurred when the tire was steel but less so of course.

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Will86 - 2019-09-19 9:45 AM

 

BruceM - 2019-09-18 1:39 PM

So half way through our European tour, and after a two night stop on Stellplaz in exceptionally hot weather I noted that our LHD van’s steering had started to pull slightly to the right.

 

So I swopped over the two front wheels. Just been for a drive and the van now pulls slightly to the left.

 

Drifting according to a camber happens everywhere, on any vehicle, on any tires, don't they, so whats odd about it. You should be pleased that your steering is so sensitive.

 

PS on older vehicles the steering play was so severe that a quarter turn was often needed upon seeing a change in camber direction. (You modern drivers have no idea what real driving was like ! )

 

You’ve overlooked the fact that Bruce’s motorhome was pulling to the right while he was abroad (ie. potentially drifting down the road camber), but continued to pull to the right when he had returned to the UK (le. was now going UP the camber).

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Many thanks for all the suggestions including Will’s delightful references to bicycle solid rubber tyres – as a road cyclist who has likewise cycled Continental Europe, albeit on pneumatics, that struck a cord.

 

So today I spent a few hours swapping back tyres (‘camper’ type 2013) with the front tyres (van type 2012) and have just returned from an extended test run.

 

If I take may hand off the steering wheel the van now runs straight and true just as it used to. The tyres do indeed appear to have been the culprit.

 

Scheduling to change the 2012 tyres at some point seems appropriate.

 

And yes, I think that the spare (‘camper tyre’) wheel is indeed an unused original (neither side displayed DOT numbers) so that will need to be addressed.

 

What I’m wondering though is what caused the 2012 tyres to apparently change the steering in the way that they did. Looking at them they appear normal and I could not detect any excess wear to one side of the tread. Would it be some sort of structural change that happens over time and could it have been exacerbated by the high temperatures we experiences whilst parked up in Germany? – in the sun it was hot enough to melt the non setting mastic around the habitation door frame.

 

 

 

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Interesting that the front tyres were "white van" tyres that had been standing for some time in the sun. (If I've read you right) What make were they?

One of the debates about using camping tyres is that they have reinforced sidewalls to minimise this sort of problem.

 

(It could be that the outside of the front tyre in the sun became deformed due to heat and pressure)

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Billggski - 2019-09-19 4:45 PM

 

Interesting that the front tyres were "white van" tyres that had been standing for some time in the sun. (If I've read you right) What make were they?

One of the debates about using camping tyres is that they have reinforced sidewalls to minimise this sort of problem.

 

(It could be that the outside of the front tyre in the sun became deformed due to heat and pressure)

 

They were only stationary for a couple of days and when not in use the van is never left stationary for more than a week. It was mighty hot though and the tyres being black . . .

 

Re tyre make, Nexen Class Premier CP321 and there’s discussion about the tyres here https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Tyre-age-puzzle/52842/

 

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BruceM - 2019-09-19 3:25 PM

 

...And yes, I think that the spare (‘camper tyre’) wheel is indeed an unused original (neither side displayed DOT numbers) so that will need to be addressed....

 

 

Assuming that the ‘camping-car’ tyre on the spare-wheel is one of the motorhome’s original tyres and unused, even in 2003 (when I’m fairly sure only Michelin and Continental were making that type of tyre) there ought to be a DOT marking on it somewhere and definitely a 4-figure date-of-production code.

 

I’ve have a couple of Chinese-made Nankang tyres left over from my wife’s VW Golf that was scrapped in 2008. These tyres carry a “DOT” marking (though it’s pretty minimalist) and there’s a “2707” date-code indicating that the tyres were made in the week beginning July 2 2007.

 

The date-code is ‘branded’ on to a tyre, so it’s usually reasonably easy to distinguish it from the rest of the information on a tyre’s sidewalls as that information will have been moulded in during the production process and be a lot crisper.

 

It needs emphasising that, if one of the ‘van’ tyres that were on the front wheels has deformed, or its internal structure is starting to degrade, there’s now a real risk of major failure occurring suddenly.

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