Strange red toggle switch

[Sheep911uk]

I have found a red toggle switch on my new to me Hymer Ducato T655 motorhome, it appears to be wired into a 230 v plug in the cabinet where the tv is stored.

Any ideas?

[Robbo]

On my 2002 Hymer, I installed a 240v heating jacket around the boiler. This had a red toggle switch which illuminated when on.

 

Useful in the summer months when no heating required. When on EHU it keeps the water hot. Also useful in winter to get the boiler compartment up to temperature to prevent the dump valve from opening.

 

 

[Billggski]

Trace it the other way, a previous owner probably picked up power from the back of the socket to something they had added.

[Robbo]

Sheep911uk

 

Have you found the function of the red toggle switch.....yet ???

 

I'm sure it's to do with the Truma accessory (heating jacket) for delivering hot water from the boiler when on EHU.

 

When I installed mine, I tapped into the back of the 240v plug in the TV cabinet.

[Sheep911uk]

Thanks my Motorhome is new to me, I need to look at the boiler Ann’s see if it has a jacket fitted!!

 

[Derek Uzzell]

I’d expect a 2006 Hymer T-Classic 655 motorhome to have a Truma Trumatic C combination air/water heater.

 

In 2006, when that type of heater was installed in German-built motorhomes, it would usually have been a C4002 or C6002 gas-only appliance, or a C6002 EH gas/230V appliance.

 

Operating instructions for C4002 and C6002 heaters can be found here

 

https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/30_000/34000_94800.pdf

 

As Robbo mentions, a C4002 or C6002 heater could be fitted with a 230V water-heating ‘collar’. The collar might be installed by Truma (when the heater would be referred to as a C4002 (EL) or a C6002 (EL) model) or it couild be retrofitted. Because the collar could not provide 230V air-heating, it tended not to be fitted as standard to C4002 or C6002 heaters installed in Continental-European-built motorhomes. The Truma On/Off toggle-switch for the collar is shown in the 1st and 2nd images below.

 

The Trumatic C6002 EH (Operating instructions here)

 

https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/30_000/34010_03500.pdf

 

had integrated 230V heating elements that allowed water and/or air heating to be provided from a mains electrical power-source. It’s not difficult to identify visually a Trumatic C6002 EH heater as it has two separate black ‘boxes’ on its side. A C6002 EH heater always has two control switches and the rotary switch that selects the power source (230V, gas or 230V+gas) is shown in the 3rd and 4th images below. Neither of the two C6002 EH switches is the toggle type.

 

The original posting says"I have found a red toggle switch on my new to me Hymer Ducato T655 motorhome, it appears to be wired into a 230 v plug in the cabinet where the tv is stored.

 

If that’s literally the case and there’s a toggle-switch connected to a 230V PLUG, or even to a 230V SOCKET, I'm doubtful that this has anything to do with a heater - particularly as the ‘plug' is in a cabinet intended to house a TV.

[Sheep911uk]

Thanks my switch is an aftermarket one, when I press it it doesn’t illuminate?

[NickVanBitz]

Sheep911uk - 2019-11-20 12:49 PM

 

Thanks my switch is an aftermarket one, when I press it it doesn’t illuminate?

 

Are you able to sent over a pic of it? Do you have roof A/C on your Motorcaravan?

[Derek Uzzell]

Are you able to provide a photo of this mysterious toggle-switch and the ‘plug’? (The file containing the photo would need to be less than 100KB in size for it to be attached to a posting.)

 

My Rapido has a dedicated high-level locker in which to house a flat-screen TV, but Rapido clearly expects that any TV put there should require a 12V power-supply as the locker contains an aerial connection but only a 12V power-socket. Consequently, if I wanted to use the small 230V flat-screen TV that is in one of our house’s bedrooms, I would need to install a 230V connection in the locker. So perhaps that’s what a previous owner of your Hymer has done.

 

(Even if a switch has the capability to illuminate when it is in the ON position, whether it will actually illuminate will depend on how it has been cabled up and/or the light-source (bulb or led) being in working order.)

[Sheep911uk]

How do I get pics under the download limit?

[Derek Uzzell]

The best method for reducing the size of a photo to be attached to a posting will depend on what type of device the person is using (PC, Mac, tablet, phone, etc.), the size of the photo, where it’s stored and so on.

 

In order to save time I’ve just sent you an email. If you can email the photos back to me I’ll see if I can attach them.

 

(I notice that you’ve owned a Ducati motorbike - after that the technical aspects of a motorhome should be child’s play ;-) )

[Derek Uzzell]

Photo attsched above.

 

It looks like a previous owner has (quite tidily) led a pair of 230V cables into the locker and connected them to a pair of white domestic junction-boxes. Presumably the red switch can allow the output from the lower junction-box to be turned On and Off and, as only two wires connect to the switch, the switch won’t illuminate even if it has that capability. (I’m wary about the wires connecting to the switch apparently not having any insulative covering.)

 

Whether the junction-boxes were ever used to power something (eg. a 230V TV) is anybody’s guess. Suggest you take the tops off the junction-boxes, connect the motorhome to a 230V EHU and test whether 230V is present in the boxes and what effect the switch has.

[Robinhood]

...the photo is rather too grainy to tell clearly, but the switch looks rather like an "automotive" one, AND their appears to be a couple of exposed spade terminals behind it.

 

If that is the case. I would sincerely hope it's a 12V circuit, not 230V.

 

(If it is 12V, and as it is in the TV cabinet, I wonder whether it switches the "TV" 12V socket. With a TV in situ, and without (an easily accessible) on/off switch, there is some value in fitting an additional, easily accessible switch - I've done it in the past).

[Derek Uzzell]

I agree that - although the cabling and junction-boxes (I assume the white round things are domestic junction-boxes?) suggest that this is a 230V installation - the switch and its wiring suggests that it’s a 12V set-up.

 

The trouble with DIY modifications to motorhomes is that DIYers may well choose to use materials that they have to hand or can obtain easily, rather than materials that a professional would employ. The result may be safe and effective, and the DIYer will know what he/she did, but it can easily produce head-scratching for a subsequent owner of the motorhome.

 

(I tweaked the photo Nick sent me, but the attachment above was as clear as I could get.)

[Alanb]

Derek Uzzell - 2019-11-21 2:11 PM

 

I agree that - although the cabling and junction-boxes (I assume the white round things are domestic junction-boxes?) suggest that this is a 230V installation - the switch and its wiring suggests that it’s a 12V set-up.

 

The trouble with DIY modifications to motorhomes is that DIYers may well choose to use materials that they have to hand or can obtain easily, rather than materials that a professional would employ. The result may be safe and effective, and the DIYer will know what he/she did, but it can easily produce head-scratching for a subsequent owner of the motorhome.

 

(I tweaked the photo Nick sent me, but the attachment above was as clear as I could get.)

 

 

Derek,

 

Your assumption is incorrect. The "white round things are standard side entry CBE manufactured covers that should be fitted to the back of every 230V CBE socket in a motorhome. The covers include a suitable cable clamp.

 

Only one cover (the upper one) appears to be associated with 230V. It seems that good practice has been followed by also covering the back of the 12V socket? Unfortunately this was not extended to using insulated connectors at the back of the swirtch, as commented on by Robinhood.

 

There are only two connections to the rocker or "toggle" switch. This precludes any illumination when it is operated.

 

May I suggest that the switch is probably to control an associated 12V socket, previously used for a TV that did not include an ON/OFF switch? I installed something similar in my PVC, for use with the supplied TV, soon after purchase in 2006.

 

Alan

 

 

 

[Robinhood]

Alanb - 2019-11-21 3:38 PM

 

May I suggest that the switch is probably to control an associated 12V socket, previously used for a TV that did not include an ON/OFF switch? I installed something similar in my PVC, for use with the supplied TV, soon after purchase in 2006.

 

Alan

 

 

 

...as my post above, that would be my guess.

 

What would be revealing would be the type of CBE outlet fitted on the other side of that "back box".

 

Again, the picture isn't really clear enough, but it looks like it's wired to the bottom box. As this also has a thick dark cable entering it, and the upper one has a white one, then I wonder if the lower is the 12V socket (or a combined aerial and 12V socket) (now with switch attached), and the upper a 230V socket, or even an aerial socket if the other one isn't both combined).

 

Whatever, it is odds on that the switch works some sort of 12V socket or attachment on the unit the other side of the lower box.

 

(AFAIK, CBE don't do 230V combined with anything else on a single socket).

 

 

 

 

[Alanb]

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I'm sure it's to do with the Truma accessory (heating jacket) for delivering hot water from the boiler when on EHU.

 

When I installed mine, I tapped into the back of the 240v plug in the TV cabinet.

 

My PVC is fitted with a Truma heater equipped with a 450W heating collar. The supply for the collar is via a proper CBE connection unit which includes 230V switch, 3A BS1362 fuse, and indicator light. As a professionally qualified electrical engineer, I have always considered that this method installation was technically correct.

 

It would also be safe to connect via a plug (with appropriate fuse) and socket.

 

However I suspect that the poster is confused as to the correct meanings of the terms plug, and socket.

 

The socket is normally the receptacle fixed to a wall etc, while the plug is connected to the power consuming appliance.

 

I must strongly advise against connecting any 230V appliance directly into the back of a 230V socket. In this particular instance the water heater will draw about 2A, and I would expect that its integral lead to be similarly rated when used in a warm enviroment. The supply to the socket will be supplied by an MCB rated at 13A or greater, hence the heater and connections will be inadequately protected.

 

Alan

[Alanb]

Robinhood - 2019-11-21 4:04 PM

 

Alanb - 2019-11-21 3:38 PM

 

May I suggest that the switch is probably to control an associated 12V socket, previously used for a TV that did not include an ON/OFF switch? I installed something similar in my PVC, for use with the supplied TV, soon after purchase in 2006.

 

Alan

 

 

 

...as my post above, that would be my guess.

 

What would be revealing would be the type of CBE outlet fitted on the other side of that "back box".

 

Again, the picture isn't really clear enough, but it looks like it's wired to the bottom box. As this also has a thick dark cable entering it, and the upper one has a white one, then I wonder if the lower is the 12V socket (or a combined aerial and 12V socket) (now with switch attached), and the upper a 230V socket, or even an aerial socket if the other one isn't both combined).

 

Whatever, it is odds on that the switch works some sort of 12V socket or attachment on the unit the other side of the lower box.

 

(AFAIK, CBE don't do 230V combined with anything else on a single socket).

 

 

 

I agree. It is interesting to note that the 230V wiring in my PVC is 1.5 sq mm flexible with a WHITE sheath. Where I have added additional 12V sockets, I have used approprite automotive cable which usually has a BLACK sheath, partly because that is what is available.

 

Alan

[Derek Uzzell]

I agree that the “white round things” are CBE back-boxes. I thought they looked odd for domestic junction boxes, which is why I queried what they were.

 

As they are CBE back-boxes, each box will be protecting something on the other side of the bulkhead through which the two back-boxes protrude. The arrangement may be as simple as a vertically-oriented CBE double-surround with a 230V socket at the top and a 12V socket (or USB socket) below (example attached) - though I would have thought that this would be too self-explanatory.

 

So, if Nick can email me a photo of what is on the other side of the bulkhead, directly opposite the back-boxes shown in his original picture, it may well be possible to identify what the fitments do.