Steve928 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 The van (Boxer 2.2 2008) had sat for 3 weeks which is rare for us. Went to start it and it started normally then stopped abruptly after 10 seconds or so. Thought I must have stalled it so retried with the same result. Then the immobiliser light (the padlock symbol) came on. Disconnected and reconnected the battery and got 2 more tries with the same result until the immobiliser light was back on permanently this time. No glowplug light and no low pressure fuel pump running, radio unable to connect, no connection on the ODB diagnostics port. Other odd symtoms like oil quantity reading varying wildy and the fuel gauge dropping to zero then recovering. Ahh thinks me, this could be that earth strap problem higlighted by Nick/Euroserv. Took it off and cleaned everything up and refitted it but to no avail. Even tried backing it up with a jump lead between the engine and the earth point. Saga breakdown assistance sent an AA patrolman who diagnosed (correctly) no power at the ECU and was able to make a temporary fix to power it up via the fusebox to get the engine to start and run, this because we needed to drive the van 300m or so to extricate it from our house and steep, narrow unmade lane to reach a point where the recovery lorry could get to it. We made about 50m before it stopped again. ECU removed, all contacts cleaned and worked, ditto the fusebox, but no real improvement. Second AA man came next day to try and arrange the recovery but left scratching his head saying he'd just have to leave it all to the recovery driver who would need to call up special assistance or something.. So while waiting for the recovery appointment I thought it worth a try to go and buy a shiny new earth strap. Fitted it and the van started and ran first time and seems so far to behave perfectly normally. So not noticing Nick's advice that a new strap was always required and that cleaning up the old one was no good has cost me 2 days of hassle. As the man says, replace your earth straps every 4 years with a top quality new one folks. We had no warning whatsover of this problem before it bit in year 5 and visibly the old strap looked good with no corrosion evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 B-) That's the nearest emoticon i could find that looks slightly smug. Seriously though; I am delighted that the word is getting out there and that it helped you. Thanks for spreading it further. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Is this just a 2.2 puma engine issue? Or does the fiat engine have the same problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted November 5, 2013 Author Share Posted November 5, 2013 It affects the Fiat-Iveco engines too in fact I don't believe that Nick runs any Puma-engined vans. This is the original thread highlighting the issue: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/X250-Engine-earth-fault/21815/ And this is the bit that I forgot about, to my cost... We have removed and cleaned several of these earth straps and have not been able to improve things. The only solution has been to fit a new earth cable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Thanks for pointing me to that. Should it be a sticky (without the ford v fiat bit)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Billggski - 2013-11-06 11:40 AM Thanks for pointing me to that. Should it be a sticky (without the ford v fiat bit)? I guess it could be added to the "USEFULL TIPS" thread at the top of the Hints and Tips forum, but so could so many other useful caveats and pieces of advice. These forums are ineffective as databases, which is why there will inevitably be a lot of repetition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Do you buy the OE earth from your local Fiat/Peugeot dealer or is there a spec for this cable so as to be able to buy from an Auto electrical dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 I just went to the nearest auto electrician (actually the one that the van was due to be recovered to) and bought a stock braided and tinned copper strap with crimped ends. They only had the one type in stock, in different lengths and I had no time to shop around. The OE part is similar but un-tinned. Why I'm not sure because un-tinned copper will degrade in a damp and salty atmosphere (all marine cable for example has tinned conductors). Of course the part on my van was made in 2008; the spec. may have change latterly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 The simplest thing to do is to get a piece of welding wire about 10 inches long. Get crimp terminals with 6mm holes added to each end. done. If it's too long for your vehicle just put a 'pig tail' loop in it. Attach it to the original earth point inside the chassis runner and attach the other end to under one of the screws on the gearbox end cover. Done. This should last considerably longer than the OE item and may well last the lifetime of the vehicle if the cable is correctly insulated and the terminals are galvanised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I fitted an 18" black battery cable with crimped ring terminal ends from Halfords for about a fiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Does anyone know why this happens ,an earthing cable is an earthing cable, if there is no break,s in the cable what,s going wrong, surely the continuity of the braid can be checked,? or is this a contact to chassis problem, I just cant get my head round an unbroken cable not functioning as it should. If it was carbon cored like some HT used to be I could understand its failure, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Corky 8 - 2013-11-06 7:54 PM Does anyone know why this happens ,an earthing cable is an earthing cable, if there is no break,s in the cable what,s going wrong, surely the continuity of the braid can be checked,? or is this a contact to chassis problem, I just cant get my head round an unbroken cable not functioning as it should. If it was carbon cored like some HT used to be I could understand its failure, I think it must be a poor connection (i.e corrosion) between the cable and the metal connector crimped on the end of it. So cleaning the connection between the metal connector and the vehicle body doesn't help. (The lower the voltage, the less able it is to jump through a bad connection. Which is why very important low voltage contacts are gold plated ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Steve928 - 2013-11-04 8:55 PM tried backing it up with a jump lead between the engine and the earth point. Must have had a bad connection there as well? Thanks for posting though, its all interesting and useful stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianBW Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 When I recommended this some time ago in this forum, I was ridiculed. Comments like, 'This is not in the handbook' So its nice to see others have found the advice useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auntyjanet1 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 BrianBW - 2013-11-06 8:27 PM When I recommended this some time ago in this forum, I was ridiculed. Comments like, 'This is not in the handbook' So its nice to see others have found the advice useful. Well said Brian , before having a go at your advice on earth straps some of the so called experts on this forum ,including one who contributes to the MMM magazine. (not Nick) should take a look at your website,for anyone who is interested have a look at www.ourwanderer.org you may find it interesting and informative! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Having had similar earth strap issues on older cars over the years, on the day that Nick first told us about the problem on x2/50s I went out and bought a new lead. Less than 10 minutes to fit - including washing hands and locking the van and garage up afterwards - simples - why wouldn't you do it? For the low cost involved any precaution that may save grief abroad is worth taking in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 OK then, I'll check mine. But where is it? The original thread said under the floor is the access point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Billggski - 2013-11-07 8:25 AM OK then, I'll check mine. But where is it? The original thread said under the floor is the access point. Checking doesn't realy tell you much, just replace with better item or add a second one before problems occur. It's in engine bay, from gearbox to chassis, on righthand side as you look from the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 colin - 2013-11-07 8:40 AM Billggski - 2013-11-07 8:25 AM OK then, I'll check mine. But where is it? The original thread said under the floor is the access point. Checking doesn't realy tell you much, just replace with better item or add a second one before problems occur. . +1. Just replace it and be wise like Tracker and not a numpty like me :-) This photo is the faulty part and it still looks fine to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 The left-hand terminal looks quite corroded to me, or is this just an effect of the light? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 The original post says "access from above" I assume this means lifting the floor panel. (Just to save me time poking about underneath) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 Just the light, spospe. Under the bonnet, RH side, down behind the air filter and fusebox, Billggski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 Oh dear. It seems that the new earth strap was not the complete solution that it at first seemed to be. 3 weekends away and 600+ fault free miles in all conditions later we set out for a day away yesterday. Started the van, reversed out onto the lane, pulled away and began crawling up our lane in 1st. gear. Then I turned the lights on and the engine died and will not restart and is now showing the exact same symptoms as it originally did in post #1. I can't believe that it will be the earth strap again especially as I fitted an addtional one but clearly there is some kind of transient electical problem here. Fun and games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Hello Steve, I am sorry to hear that you are having problems again. You will first have to check that the new earth strap is clean and secure but if this is ok you more than likely have a wiring fault. These are far too common and are normally on one side or the other of the connector that joins the fuse box loom to the injection loom. The plug is blue in colour and resides underneath the fuse box. In order to access this and the other bundles of wiring you should remove the near side headlamp and then the fuse box cover. The fuse board will now pivot up towards the off side and you will see the connector underneath, or you can pull it out completely to examine it. There may be one or more corroded wires that more than likely will pull out of the connector. We have had to solder wires back together; missing out the connector on many occasions, and so have our local dealers. Another thing to check; before you get into the wiring is the large CAL 5 fuse on the battery positive terminal under the passenger footwell. These have been known to blow and you can't start the engine without it. It may be intact but showing a high resistance; anything over about 15 ohms would indicate a problem. These fuses are not normally available from factors, you would probably have to get one from a Fiat, Citroen or Peugeot dealer. I don't know which other manufacturers use them. The electrics on these vehicles are a bugger; but easy enough to repair when you know where to look! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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