Zafira Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Evening All and many thanks in advance for any helpful illumination! Been out in the motorhome today for warranty work at the dealer (a return trip of 5 hrs), the work shouldn't have involved anything to do with the electrics.............on return home and wanting to hook up the van to the mains I find that I don't have my usual battery icon in the Hobby habitation display (rather than the Fiat dashboard display) - the handbook tells me that the battery-related icon that is showing is "Generator used for charging" - how can this be when Fiat engine not running and ignition key out of the lock? Is there something that I am missing? Having seen this icon rather than my usual battery icon I haven't hooked up the van to the mains................is it that the system is at fault and thinks the habitation and van starter batteries are in parallel (i.e. as if the engine were running)? O dear yet another issue to be sorted............ Thanks once again :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 As has been mentioned here in the past, your Hobby A55GS motorhome’s sophisticated electrical system is (as far as I’m aware) unique to Hobby and complex. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Newbie-seeking-guidance-reassurance-please-/46721/ You say that the icon that is showing on the Hobby habitation display indicates “Generator used for charging”. Plainly, if the ‘generator’ is the vehicle’s alternator, and the vehicle’s motor is not running and the ignition-key has been removed, then one would anticipate that the alternator cannot be being “used for charging” and the icon should not be showing. But I don’t have access to the handbook for your Hobby motorhome and I am not familiar with Hobby’s weird-and-wonderful electrical system. Presumably you’ve tried restarting the motorhome’s engine, running it for a few minutes and then switching it off, and confirmed that the ‘generator’ icon still displays afterwards? Me, I’d probably hook-up the motorhome to the mains and see what happens, as there’s a reasonble possibility that this is a transitory thing and hooking-up might clear it. However, I understand your misgivings about doing that. Your first port of call should be your dealer, who may be able to offer an explanation or suggest things you might try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 It sounds like something has happened during the Warranty work? Please can you tell us more about the work that was carried out? Was any welding work done or is there any chance they were doing work that might have caused the Starter battery to discharge and need a 'Jump Start'? Any information that might provide a clue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Zafira, I have just re-read your original post from early 2017 when you bought your hobby 'new' as an ex-demonstrator and note you had battery troubles then... http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Newbie-seeking-guidance-reassurance-please-/46721/ I most strongly suggest you get back in touch with your dealer immediately and alert them to the issue as you have had previous troubles and this issue has happened since you had this warranty work completed. You could also intimate you want recompense for the inconvenience caused. Keith. PS I note your leisure battery is an AGM. From experience with AGM batteries on cars at work I have found once they have been allowed to go flat they are never the same again and it is very likely yours was allowed to go flat when being used as a demonstrator! eg The starter battery on a BMW had a resting voltage of 11.9 V but would start the car with ease but then force the 'smart' alternator to run flat out at 14.8 V as it thought the battery was still flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 How you can see in the box that you have a AGM matt battery or more for the house? What kind of starter battery is fitted in a fiat ducato. There can be back flows from the starter to the house and have voltage drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2018-03-17 3:44 PM How you can see in the box that you have a AGM matt battery or more for the house? Monique, From Zafira's previous post which I linked to... "The habitation battery is the following, gleaned from gap below the driver's seat:- EXIDE Start-Stop AGM EX950 95Ah. (yes you read that correctly "Start-Stop"!) " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Keithl - 2018-03-17 1:25 PM Zafira, I have just re-read your original post from early 2017 when you bought your hobby 'new' as an ex-demonstrator and note you had battery troubles then... http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Newbie-seeking-guidance-reassurance-please-/46721/ I most strongly suggest you get back in touch with your dealer immediately and alert them to the issue as you have had previous troubles and this issue has happened since you had this warranty work completed. You could also intimate you want recompense for the inconvenience caused. Keith. PS I note your leisure battery is an AGM. From experience with AGM batteries on cars at work I have found once they have been allowed to go flat they are never the same again and it is very likely yours was allowed to go flat when being used as a demonstrator! eg The starter battery on a BMW had a resting voltage of 11.9 V but would start the car with ease but then force the 'smart' alternator to run flat out at 14.8 V as it thought the battery was still flat. Keith Although your AGM battery-related comment “...it is very likely yours was allowed to go flat when being used as a demonstrator..” may well be correct, the AGM habitation-battery originally fitted to Zafira’s 2016 Hobby motorhome was replaced under warranty about a year ago, and (presumably) the replacement battery has not been problematical. I refer you to Zafira’s posting of 28 April 2017 7:32 PM on Page 3 of the forum thread referenced by the link you’ve provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Thanks Derek, I must admit I never got as far as page 3 when re-reading Zafira's old post yesterday. My mistake. But as Zafira has had previous problems I still suggest an immediate return to the dealer for rectification. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 It may well be necessary for Zafira to return her Hobby to the dealer to sort this out. But the dealership is a long distance away and Zafira’s inquiry was in the hope that a 5-hour round-trip might be avoided if the ‘fault’ was just something she was overlooking, that she could address herself, or that someone could provide a credible explanation for. As I said above, recent Hobby motorhomes and caravans have an unusual electrical system. The 2018 motorhome control-panel is shown in the attached photo and I assume Zafira’s 2016 model has a similar panel. The link below is to an October 2015 Hobby motorhome manual https://tinyurl.com/l9bgaln and Chapter 7 “Electrical Installations” starts on Page 86. Information on the TFT-Control-panel begins on Page 88 and the pictogram Zafira mentions is referred to on Page 90. As will be seen, the pictogram shows a pair of batteries with a ‘double-ended arrow’ above them and is explained as “Generator used for charging The motor has been switched on; the ancillary and starter batteries are connected in parallel.” I also note that on Page 91 there is a warning “Warning: motor and mains connection This warning will appear 3 times and must be ack- nowledged. The warning will not appear again when the defect has been fixed.” The drawing above the warning shows the ‘pair of connected batteries’ pictogram AND a “230V - Shows that the motorhome is connected to the mains” pictogram. I’m not sure whether the ‘defect’ that can be ‘fixed’ merely relates to the motorhome’s motor having been started while the vehicle is still hooked up to a 230V power-supply (which either disconnecting from the 230V supply or switching off the motor should ‘fix’) or a genuine fault. From what Zafira has said, her motorhome’s control-panel displays the ‘pair of connected batteries’ pictogram despite the vehicle’s motor being switched off and the ignition-key removed. This suggests that the device (presumably a coupler/separator) that has coupled in parallel the vehicle’s starter and leisure batteries when the motorhome’s motor was started has not separated the two batteries when the motor was switched off. And if that’s the case, then there’s a genuine fault that will require rectification by the dealership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Derek, while I agree that whatever the issue is, it needs to go back to the Dealer, Zafira's last encounter with the Dealer meant they where denying any issue was present despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It took a lot of hard work by Zafira to get them to even look at the problem. Even after replacing the battery which was obviously past it, they tried to say the old one was perfect. So any help we can give Zafira, even guesses, as to a potential issue may help her 'tackle the Dealer', understand the problem and/or help her ensure the issue is resolved after the visit so she can better check the fix. Knowing what warranty work was carried out, like work under the bonnet near the Alternator, or replacement of the Starter battery, etc, may give a clue as to the issue and cause. This may not be a fault in the Waeco/Dometic electronics, but some change they have made to the motorhome itself. For example if the Power Controller uses Voltage sensing of the Starter battery rising above 13.0v (thinking the Alternator has started spinning) to trigger the Battery Joining circuitry, and the Dealer has fitted a higher voltage AGM battery as a Starter Battery then that may be a potential cause. Many Voltage sense circuits don't 'break the join' until the Starter battery drops below 12.8v, so fitting a 13.0v AGM as a Starter battery will clearly cause an issue. As may fitting Solar, because the Starter battery voltage is raised during charging. Since the last post we have worked on two of the Waeco chargers fitted in this type of Motorhome (more info on that later), but not yet seen this Hobby controller electronics/Display unit. I am guessing that if not Voltage Sense triggered, the Alternator D+ triggers the Controller. This then triggers the 'Split Charge' relay and lights the Display Icon to say the batteries are joined together. If the batteries really are linked together, then obviously 'Mains' charging while the batteries are linked in 'Alternator charge mode' will result in the Wet Acid Starter battery receiving a 14.8v AGM battery charge, not the reduced 13.8v it usually gets. Whether this causes any damage will depend on the Starter Batteries technology. So best not to connect to EHU while this fault is evident. So more info please Zafira on exactly what work they carried out?. Zafira, we have worked on two Hobby Waeco chargers since your last AGM Battery post. Although there are 4 different models in the range, they were most likely the same as you have fitted. They are an odd design, including an automatic 'Boost' charge every 13 days, whether the batteries need it or not. Definitely not ideal if AGM batteries are attached as they will get an 'overcharge' which a Wet Battery will handle ok, but an AGM battery won't like at all. Especially as these chargers are powerful units. Suggest you don't leave your vehicle on long term EHU with this charger. If you do an AGM habitation battery is unlikely to last more than 12 months. Suggest you just hook up every 2 - 4 weeks for no more than 2 days at a time. One other thing, if you have the IU152A, then get the Dealer to make sure the charger Switch setting 4 is set to 'ON'. Not so important if you change battery technology, but we would suggest it is vital with an AGM battery to reduce the risk of a battery explosion. As we surmised last time the charger was primarily designed as a Wet and Gel Battery charger, with less thought put into the AGM side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zafira Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 Evening All Firstly a big "thank you" for everyone's contribution to the latest Hobby issue......... Things have deteriorated even further in that the TFT control panel is no longer showing the "alternator charging the habitation battery" icon, rather I have no battery icons whatsoever! Also the panel will not switch on therefore the water pump and the lights won't work. The van will be heading to the dealer for the necessary rectification work in a month's time..........dealer believes loose connection somewhere or a fuse issue........ The warranty work performed last week was nothing to do with electrics (in fact it was altogether FAR more disastrous than that but I won't go into that here) - I bought German-built thinking I was getting something durable but I suppose I should have learnt my lesson having bought a Skoda Yeti with the wretched EA189 engine.............. Thanks aandncaravan - I took heed of your previous advice not to leave the 'van permanently hooked up to the mains when the van wasn't in use. Many thanks to all once again for your thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.