Winter Diesel

[niktam]

I've rung a few oil companies to no avail except Shell who indicate that winter blend diesel is delivered from the 15th November but of course the petrol stations do not know. Clearly I don't want to fill up the MH and brim the tank with summer diesel as if it does get really cold then I could have an issue. Guess I will wait a week and visit a busy station to ensure that l fill with winter blend.

[Keithl]

BP claim they '...are required to change their diesel fuels from summer to winter quality between November and March each year '.

 

https://www.bp.com/en_gb/bp-plus/uk/news/car-and-van/winter_diesel.html

 

So hopefully around now the change should happen but then you will have to wait for the winter fuel to pass through the supply chain and filling stations to use up their stock of summer fuel.

 

I'm waiting to fill up my MH but will wait at least another couple of weeks before I do so.

 

Keith.

[spirou]

You plan on keeping the contents or use it? Don't worry about diesel, just drive.

[Keithl]

spirou - 2019-11-16 8:19 PM

 

You plan on keeping the contents or use it? Don't worry about diesel, just drive.

 

But if you fill up now with summer diesel then try to use your MH in a couple of months time when the temperatures could be near or sub zero you will almost certainly be in for trouble!

 

Keith.

[Nicepix]

Well, mine is full to the brim with diesel bought a month ago and it ain't going anywhere except a short trip to a local dealers for an immersion test before heading down to Spain at Christmas. Just like last year, and we managed OK.

[spirou]

Keithl - 2019-11-16 9:21 PM

then try to use your MH in a couple of months.

 

There's your problem then. I totally understand not having time off work and other obligations but you could at least use it on some weekends. What's the point in owning a MH if you leave it in storage for months at a time? If you don't have time then let let your kids/parents/brothers... use it now and then. That summer diesel will be gone before you know it ;-)

[Keithl]

spirou - 2019-11-16 9:44 PM

 

Keithl - 2019-11-16 9:21 PM

then try to use your MH in a couple of months.

 

There's your problem then. I totally understand not having time off work and other obligations but you could at least use it on some weekends. What's the point in owning a MH if you leave it in storage for months at a time? If you don't have time then let let your kids/parents/brothers... use it now and then. That summer diesel will be gone before you know it ;-)

 

I only wish it was that simple!!!

 

If I fill with Diesel now I will probably not need to fill again until Easter time, but I would like to be able to take it out for the odd day without fear of the diesel gelling. And I am the only person in the family who can (or will) drive it so in the meantime is sits on our drive.

 

Keith.

[niktam]

Can't really go out and about now as my Nearest and Dearest has had major foot surgery also I have zero holiday left and the new MH has not been winterised so it'll only get a 30 min run every couple of weeks till early March ish.

 

l'll chose a petrol station in a couple of weeks that is very busy to fill up so they should have got rid of all the summer stock by then? Don't want to leave the tank empty for too long in case I get condensate forming. Summer diesel evidently is good to -5 and winter to -15 before they start clogging up.

 

[Nicepix]

spirou - 2019-11-16 10:44 PM

 

Keithl - 2019-11-16 9:21 PM

then try to use your MH in a couple of months.

 

There's your problem then. I totally understand not having time off work and other obligations but you could at least use it on some weekends. What's the point in owning a MH if you leave it in storage for months at a time? If you don't have time then let let your kids/parents/brothers... use it now and then. That summer diesel will be gone before you know it ;-)

 

I work about four or five days a month and can go when I want outside those times. But what is the point of going off in the bad weather? It hasn't stopped raining for six weeks.

 

The whole point in owning a motorhome for us is being able to use it when we want to, not to feel obligated to use it when we don't want to just because it is there. And it is not for loaning out.

 

It is a personal thing. You can't impose your opinions on others.

[Billggski]

Modern diesel is much better than the old days when you could see lorries with fires under their tanks to get the fuel flowing or put petrol in it. But filling up with winter diesel is a good move, even if not planning to move much.

A mate's son ran his 4x4 pick up on veggie oil, he thought it a good idea to take a drum of it on the back when he went skiing. Needless to say it froze and he carried 150 gallons to the alps and back.

[Will86]

Is there really any big difference or is it all another sales gimmick ? The temperatures in this country only vary a few degrees. In reality its nothing more than employing extra people to make up unnecessary stories.

[spirou]

Nicepix - 2019-11-17 9:00 AM

But what is the point of going off in the bad weather? It hasn't stopped raining for six weeks.

 

There's no such thing as bad weather, just innapropriate clothing (often repeated in Norway or Iceland) :-D If it's sunny you do whatever you feel like, if it's snowing you go skiing and if it's raining you go scuba diving or kayaking or surfing...

 

If I were the only person in my family using the MH in the past year it would accumulate a grand total of 4 nights out. Since I'm not, it still did its usual 15-20k miles. So trust me, I'm painfully aware of how little time and opportunity I've had lately. Even my 3 year old got more use out of it, spent 2 or 3 weeks on the road with my parents. Who knows how many weeks they did on their own or how much my brother did.

[Hans]

Yes it is wise to have it. Fuel filter can be blocked, engine gelled up, flock point etc. There is also North- Pole diesel. The nays does not have it.

[Alanb]

I have suffered from diesel waxing on two occasions, both of which were over 45 years ago, and related to my first vehicle, a Land Rover. The vehicle did not have a diesel heater, only a circulation of excess fuel back to the tank. Overnight temperatures had been below -10. I travelled about a mile before coming to a halt. AFAIK in that former era, there was no such thing as winter diesel, hence Billggski's comments about lorries with fires under the tank.

 

On the first occasion I clearly remember lighting a gas camping stove under the fuel tank, and cleaning out the fuel filter closest to the tank. Even though I used a diesel vehicles for work at the turn of the century, I suffered no further problems, perhaps due to the introduction of winter diesel.

 

Alan

[spospe]

14 years ago I filled the tank in St Remy de Provence at the beginning of November and drove up the Rhone valley to Luxembourg, where we stopped for the night. During the night it snowed a little and in the morning we had the start of waxing (the engine began misfiring and shuddering badly, needing 3rd gear where 5th would normally suffice). We stopped in a layby for lunch and during that time the day warmed up a bit and heat from the engine percolated around the 'oily bits'. The engine then ran normally until I was able to fill the tank.

 

My conclusion is that in St Remy they were on summer diesel (nice and warm down there in the south of France) and in Luxembourg they had begun winter deliveries.

[Paul-]

You could always buy a can of winter diesel treatment if you want to fill up now, personally I would wait a few of weeks if it was mine and then fill up with a premium diesel.

[vindiboy]

niktam - 2019-11-16 8:11 PM

 

I've rung a few oil companies to no avail except Shell who indicate that winter blend diesel is delivered from the 15th November but of course the petrol stations do not know. Clearly I don't want to fill up the MH and brim the tank with summer diesel as if it does get really cold then I could have an issue. Guess I will wait a week and visit a busy station to ensure that l fill with winter blend.

Well I have never heard any one worry about that, something new all the time, I did not even know that there was winter Diesel, in all my years travelling in a diesel Motorhome in snow and ice in Europe I have never had a problem,.We are leaving for Portugal and Spain this week and will be there for 5 Months, to hell with the rules Brexit or not we will miss the Election too,hee hee but sure Boris will prevail without our help. so I guess our Diesel will be OK ?

 

[Nicepix]

spirou - 2019-11-17 1:44 PM

 

Nicepix - 2019-11-17 9:00 AM

But what is the point of going off in the bad weather? It hasn't stopped raining for six weeks.

 

There's no such thing as bad weather, just innapropriate clothing (often repeated in Norway or Iceland) :-D If it's sunny you do whatever you feel like, if it's snowing you go skiing and if it's raining you go scuba diving or kayaking or surfing...

 

..................................

 

What utter tosh! I will take it from those suggestions that you don't actually go off touring in winter in the UK.

 

[spirou]

Nicepix - 2019-11-18 8:52 AM

 

you don't actually go off touring in winter in the UK.

 

true, I prefer snow and mountains all around mainland europe

[Billggski]

I was off on a trip this week, autumn colours, long dog walks and warm log fires in pubs.

Only problem was I got stuck on a wet strip of grass and had to get towed off!

M&S tyres no help at all.

Doh!!!

[AliB]

I experienced "sticky" diesel in a hire car in Val Thorens a couple of years ago. It was something like -25deg C.

Advised to put in an additive and leave it for a short while. Worked a treat and off we went down the mountain to the airport.

[starvin marvin]

niktam - 2019-11-16 8:11 PM

 

I've rung a few oil companies to no avail except Shell who indicate that winter blend diesel is delivered from the 15th November but of course the petrol stations do not know. Clearly I don't want to fill up the MH and brim the tank with summer diesel as if it does get really cold then I could have an issue. Guess I will wait a week and visit a busy station to ensure that l fill with winter blend.

 

May take a bit longer with fewer diesels on the road.

[John99]

Couple of weeks ago I had the little yellow engine pic come up on the dash with a 'Check engine' message - helpful? No - I checked and the engine was definitely still there - turned out it was the fuel filter dropping too much pressure through it. So after joyously coughing up £80 for a new fuel filter and them cleaning out the fuel lines, I looked into this diesel thing. I'm sure someone else has replied about it, but I can't find anything. Also I'm sure there are more expert people out there - let me know if I've got something wrong....

 

Turns out as far as I can see the problem is really adding up to 7% bio-diesel to the 'mineral' diesel (see the spec EN590). 'Bio-diesel' seems to be a misnomer, it can be anything - rapeseed oil, palm oil, cooking oil, engine oil etc - the good news is apparently in the UK it's mostly rapeseed oil which at least is liquid at 0degC; palm oil is solid.

The effect is apparently to raise the Cold Filter Plugging Point (CFPP) (blocks fuel filter) to -5 to +1 for bio-diesel. The other temperature that comes up is Cloud Point - the temp at which solid wax particles form, with the risk of clogging filters and injectors.

Summer diesel is spec'd as CFPP of -5 and Cloud Point of +3; winter diesel has an additive so it's -15 and -5degC

EN590 for the UK says winter is 16Nov-15Mar, when 'winter diesel' has to be supplied. I've been onto Sainsburys who say they distribute winter diesel from Sep onwards, so there's a good chance if you fill up Oct onwards you'll get winter diesel - oh yes, the dates are country-dependent btw.

The other thing I've checked is whether my Peugeot base has a fuel filter heater - it does - which should stop wax blocking it (but down to what temp?), as long as I take it for a long enough drive to warm it up. Also the Peugeot dealer doesn't recommend adding anything to the fuel.

Thing that surprised me was there are lots of tips to top up the tank before winter, but no-one seems to add 'but wait til Nov'. And mine's now about 50:50 summer:winter, so can I have a mild winter please!

Hope that's helped.

[spirou]

There are also additives to make your existing mix into a winter formula. Pretty much the same thing they add at the refinery so I don't see it as a big deal to add later other than driving around a bit to possibly help it mix well.

[Ocsid]

This Wiki link gives you the dates you require;

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_diesel_fuel

 

Realistically in the UK unless it turns really very cold indeed you are unlikely these days to have a waxing issue.

With the move some decade or more back, to ultra low sulphur diesel fuel the wax content reduced, taking much of the problem with it.

Then your vehicle has to be standing in the deep cold long enough for wax crystals to start to build up to an extent that they completely blind the fuel filter. It is highly probable the engine will start and if taken on the road the warmth build up in the engine bay to keep the engine running.

Whilst I accept you have a point, I feel it is a bit out of proportion such that if you can't fully fill with winter diesel, you still should be able to sleep at night without worrying too much, at least if living in the UK.