Mick Bajcar Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I have a crack on a body panel behind the drivers door on a Chausson Welcome 76 that has run from a pop rivet hole on the door frame and I have been quoted almost £800 for a dealer to repair it but (at that price) I would like to try and do it myself. I realise that I will need to drill the pop rivets out but I am not sure how the panel fits to the main body of the motorhome. I am thinking of leaving the crack visible but simply strengthening the back, unless anyone has better suggestions. Any advice would be welcomed please. I have attached a couple of photos of it Mick Bajcar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Bajcar Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 with the photos this time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Bajcar Posted March 22, 2017 Author Share Posted March 22, 2017 The position on the vehicle is better shown here Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I would have thought any boat yard or auto repair shop could do this if they had the space to get the MH in.l had a back panel repaired in a worse state than yours. The cracks should be opened out into a V shape and welded,then rubbed down and sprayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I agree with Mick. The split panel is almost certainly moulded from ABS (rather than GRP) https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/caravanclubapps/media/17898/PRACTICAL%20Body%20work%20July%2006.pdf http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Whoops-Cracked-rear-panel-any-ideas-on-repair-/29287/ It’s likely that the panel is ‘glued’ in place as well as pop-riveted and (if that’s the case) attempting to remove it will be a non-starter. While reinforcing the panel behind the split would be a good idea, the realistic option is to do as MIck suggests and carry out a repair with the panel left in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Dave Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 If you can strengthen the back you could disguise the crack with some vinyl wrap i have had really good results with this especially if you can do a swooping style of patch rather than a square shape. However i think what i would do is drill a very small hole at the end of the crack to help prevent it spreading then fashion a patch to cover the crack but cut to look aesthetically pleasing from a suitable plastic material and bond it on top of the crack with sikaflex or an equivalent adhesive and possibly do the same the other side of the 'van to keep continuity. However simply drilling the hole and covering with vinyl wrap may surprise you. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gloss-Vinyl-Wrap-Car-Air-Bubble-Free-All-Colours-multi-Sizes-/322053066004?var=&hash=item4afbdbcd14:m:mAshxzBuphcASOuoajfpBbA Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Looking at the edges of the panel and the way that the crack is depressed leads me to think that it's under stress; it looks like it could be slightly squeezed into place. I agree with Dave and think that disguise is probably your best option. Otherwise, in order for any repair to last, I think you may have to remove the panel completely and adjust its fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Bajcar Posted March 24, 2017 Author Share Posted March 24, 2017 Dave, Thanks (again), something I had not considered, but that film seems to be a similar sort of thing to the logos that are already on and could well disguise it. Steve 928 I am sure that you are right and I fear that the panel will have to come off. It does look stressed and I think one extra pop rivet nearer the top of the door would have prevented this from happening. I am still not sure how the panel is fixed to the body, perhaps clips, perhaps glue as Derek has suggested Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Let me be a bit clearer then... The split panel WILL have been bonded to the motorhome with constructional adhesive (Sikaflex or the equivalent) and the pop-rivets are there just to hold the panel in place until the adhesive sets. When the conversion took place Chausson would not have considered making it easy to remove the panel if it needed to be repaired. If the panel were made of GRP (which would probably not have split) there might be a sporting chance of removing it in one piece, but removing a bonded-in thin-gauge ABS moulding without causing further (and major) damage to it would need divine intervention. You might want to ask your dealer about the near-£800 repair, as it’s quite likely this would have involved smashing the split panel to remove it, replacing it with a new panel and spraying the panel to match. Whether the split in the panel be repaired from outside or disguised, you definitely should not attempt to remove the panel yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Bajcar Posted March 24, 2017 Author Share Posted March 24, 2017 Derek Thanks for the warnings. There is certainly no adhesive under the pop riveted side but there may be on the body side. However, there does seem to be some play suggesting that there may be some sort of clips holding things in place. I had hoped that someone might know for sure but I think I will now have to ask Chausson direct (and perhaps price up a panel) Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Dave Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Mick If you do need a price from Chausson this is the chap who will be able to help. garnaud@trigano.fr I priced up a small part of the rear bumper and the price made my eyes water. so good luck but don't forget if you do try to mask the damage you have lost nothing, if you start ripping the panel off you could end up in a world of hurt. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Bajcar Posted March 24, 2017 Author Share Posted March 24, 2017 Dave Thanks for that. I really like your idea of the covering and I might just be able to pull the cracked bit back into place with an extra pop rivet (or self tapper) into the door frame so I will try that next week, take some photos and see how I get on Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Dave Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I look forward to seeing the end result ! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Mick, I have just looked at your post, and thought "Drill a hole to stop the crack spreading.". On reading further I see that Dr Dave has already made this suggestion, with which I fully agree. May I suggest that you drill a small hole, say 3mm, at the end of the crack, ASAP. This will relieve the stress concentration at the end of the crack. You could cover the hole temporarily with a small piece on white insulating tape Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Like Alan said....'stop drill' the crack at the end with a 3-4mm drill. This will relieve the stresses/pressures on the crack and stop it from spreading. A bit of bodge tape will suffice in the interim to arrest the ingress of moisture. After that you might consider looking to a flexible filler and refinishing yourself or failing that try one of the many 'SMART' repair specialists out there right now. SMART stands for 'small area repair technique' and some of these guys are pretty darn good....look for the join after their work and you won't see it.....and it is really cost competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bop Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Mick Bajcar - 2017-03-24 10:32 AM Steve 928 I am sure that you are right and I fear that the panel will have to come off. It does look stressed and I think one extra pop rivet nearer the top of the door would have prevented this from happening. I am still not sure how the panel is fixed to the body, perhaps clips, perhaps glue as Derek has suggested Mick Mick, Steve mentioned that it may be stressed (it certainly looks that way from your first pic) but have you actually ascertained whether the panel is under stress. Also, has this been a progressive problem or did it suddenly appear one day (or during a trip). Cheers, Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Bajcar Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 Andrew I am off out for the day, hence me replying at 0430 :-( I am not sure how long it has been there but I noticed the crack when I was washing it before it was 'put to bed' before the winter. When I drive I can hear it rattling and the top part is not fixed to the door - if I press it in, then things line up as they should. There is no adhesive under it and it looks to me as though it needed an extra pop river when it was built - poor construction IMHO. I will take a photo tomorrow Thanks for all the advice Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bop Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Mick Bajcar - 2017-03-25 4:34 AM Andrew I am off out for the day, hence me replying at 0430 :-( I am not sure how long it has been there but I noticed the crack when I was washing it before it was 'put to bed' before the winter. When I drive I can hear it rattling and the top part is not fixed to the door - if I press it in, then things line up as they should. There is no adhesive under it and it looks to me as though it needed an extra pop river when it was built - poor construction IMHO. I will take a photo tomorrow Thanks for all the advice Mick Mick, The most important thing first - I hope you've had a good day in the sun :-) The symptoms which you describe do not sound too serious at all. If the affected piece can be realigned without it suffering from any direct pressure then a simple fix (assuming there is a very small gap between the external panel and the cab body) is to inject a fibreglass-resin compound to act as a bonding bed between the affected top panel and the structure beneath. A new rivet can then be applied to help secure the affected bit while not detracting from the aesthetics of your van. If the panel has been distorted on the crease then a good body shop would be able to cut along the crease (to eradicate the distortion) before filling and blending accordingly. Paint or decals can then be added. This will cost only a few quid as opposed to the mighty bill that the dealer has quoted in your original post. I would still be keen to see a closer photo when you get a chance. Can you also take a pic to see if the panel is permanently distorted on the crease. All the best, Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 The cause of the spiitting is threefold - use of thin-gauge ABS, use of pop-rivets and the ABS panel being locally stressed. In the 2006 Caravan Club link I provided above, John Wickersham said "I recently tested a 2005 Pilote Reference motor caravan and vertical ABS mouldings were installed adjacent to the cab doors. To my surprise, cracking was evident around the pin fixings holding them in place.” There’s nothing intrinsically ‘wrong’ with ABS (its virtues are described here) http://www.rutlandplastics.co.uk/injection-moulding-materials/abs/ but if the gauge of the material is inadequate for the design-application and the moulding is under stress, cracking is likely to occur. In this Chausson-related 2006 forum thread http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/chausson-welcome-28-su/4168/ I mentioned that “...I wasn't much taken by the use of ABS for side-skirts and rear bumpers as I'd seen several cracked examples of the latter on Chausson exhibition models”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Bajcar Posted March 26, 2017 Author Share Posted March 26, 2017 Andrew, Firstly, thanks I had a good day. I photograph aircraft as a hobby (I even have gold braid on my anorak) and the weather was nigh on perfect! I have attached another photo and taking all of the advice I have had so far into account, I think I can see the way to do it. I think I will drill out that top rivet so that the gap in the panel can really be tightened up and then put another (or perhaps a self tapper to allow some adjustment?) right at the top before replacing the one drilled out. I feel that I can then probably get away with either using a scratch repair service or put some white film over the whole top section. Further suggestions will be welcomed :-) Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 A few positions of fact need clarifying here so let us look carefully at the situation as described and pictured. 1. The most important question to ask, has Mick suddenly noticed the crack when it was there when he bought it ? 2. His comment "I have a crack on a body panel behind the drivers door on a Chausson Welcome 76 that has run from a pop rivet hole on the door frame". This is NOT correct. 3. Cracks do NOT start from drilled holes. They are made to stop cracks progressing further from their original flawed source. 4. Unfortunately we cannot accurately see & judge the opposite end for any mistreatment of the panel such as scores, scuffs or wrongly made trimming cuts. 5. Repairs ... A repair here cannot be made without removing the panel. The crack as seen is already separated and staggered or crossed over according to the first picture as it continues behind a body part. Trying to half repair what can be seen will achieve nothing and it may well separate again. 6. Generally there is no need to secure a repair hole with a rivet. The reason may have been to stop any drumming of the panel on the interior framework. 7. An unfortunate problem with almost no answer, a simple solution has been suggested by disguising with a stick-on panel. The problem should have been cured by the drilling of the hole. PS. Having seen your latest picture the best thing you can do is nothing. You will never improve it and could easily make the situation far worse. The repair looks good and about the best that could have been achieved. Somehow the body must have suffered a serious stress settlement which is now presumably cured. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Bajcar Posted March 26, 2017 Author Share Posted March 26, 2017 Will You misunderstand - I have not yet made any sort of repair. and it does need tidying up. I have checked the nearside and one rivet is showing signs of a crack there too, though very minor compared to the one I have photographed. I suppose it may have been there for a long time though I would have thought I would have noticed it when cleaning. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Hi Mick.. I'm not sure I'd be rushing to drill anymore rivets or S/tappers , in new positions.. (..What would stop them from being the start of yet more cracks in the future.?) What are those rivets "doing" now?... ..unless they are actually holding the panel to the cab, I think I'd be looking at drilling them out (on both sides of the van) and doing my best to secure the edge by forcing some Sika-type flexible adhesive/sealant, in behind the flange that lips onto the cab. (even if that meant fashioning a makeshift, curved or flexi nozzle?) As for the crack. I damaged the rear "plastic" (abs?..grp? who knows? :-D) panel on one of our vans some years ago and a small local body shop repaired the splits and sprayed it in as good as new, for very little money (less than 100 quid if I recall?) and it still looked original a few years on, when we sold it. (..and I dare say their job would've been made harder if I had been fettling with it beforehand with various "glues"/ fillers / touch-up paints etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Mick You talk in riddles. The damage shown has been there a long time yet you had not noticed it, and now you suggest there is more on the opposite side. It gets more puzzling. Nothing more to add from me. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Will86 - 2017-03-26 2:05 PM Mick You talk in riddles. The damage shown has been there a long time yet you had not noticed it, and now you suggest there is more on the opposite side. It gets more puzzling. Nothing more to add from me. Will Eh? "..riddles.."? So says the poster who thought, quote- ".. The repair looks good and about the best that could have been achieved.."... ..when it hasn't even been repaired yet! (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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