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everyone off to scottish highlands then?
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userBarryd999
Posted: 23 March 2020 9:31 PM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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Well it makes no odds now. Decision made, you have to stay at home so I imagine anyone found in the Scottish Highlands in a motorhome will sharp be given their marching orders presumably by the Rozzers and could be fined.
userJohn52
Posted: 23 March 2020 10:08 PM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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Solwaybuggier - 2020-03-23 7:58 PM

People are dying, this has barely started .


I think everybody knows that, because nobody has said otherwise, so I can't see the point of your post?
userJohn52
Posted: 23 March 2020 10:09 PM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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Barryd999 - 2020-03-23 9:31 PM

you have to stay at home so I imagine anyone found in the Scottish Highlands in a motorhome .


what if their home is a motor-home?
userSolwaybuggier
Posted: 23 March 2020 10:12 PM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 
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John52 - 2020-03-23 10:08 PM

Solwaybuggier - 2020-03-23 7:58 PM

People are dying, this has barely started .


I think everybody knows that, because nobody has said otherwise, so I can't see the point of your post?

The point was to ask the mods to consider suspending you if you cannot behave with any humanity in the current circumstances.
userJohn52
Posted: 23 March 2020 10:27 PM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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Solwaybuggier - 2020-03-23 10:12 PM

John52 - 2020-03-23 10:08 PM

Solwaybuggier - 2020-03-23 7:58 PM

People are dying, this has barely started .


I think everybody knows that, because nobody has said otherwise, so I can't see the point of your post?

The point was to ask the mods to consider suspending you if you cannot behave with any humanity in the current circumstances.


humanity is minimising the risk of transmitting the virus.
Everyone's circumstances are different.
Some may have another home that is not as well isolated as their motorhome.
Some are full timers whose home is their motorhome - they don't have another - what should they do?
userBarryd999
Posted: 23 March 2020 10:53 PM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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John52 - 2020-03-23 10:09 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-03-23 9:31 PM

you have to stay at home so I imagine anyone found in the Scottish Highlands in a motorhome .


what if their home is a motor-home?


Well thats a different story. For Full Timers I really dont know what the answer is. Even Static caravan parks where people live all year round are sending people packing and some of them probably dont have other homes.

I have no idea how many full timers there are and I guess they will be off the Governments radar until they become a problem. If I were a full timer I would be probably have a couple of remote CL sites I was on good terms with and do a deal and just stay there. I guess its either that or rent flat or house.
userDickB
Posted: 23 March 2020 11:41 PM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 
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As of 8.30 this evening there are 4 permitted reasons for leaving one's home. NONE of them include using a motorhome or travelling so let's all realise the desperate situation we are in, and obey the instructions.

Dick
userJohn52
Posted: 24 March 2020 7:15 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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DickB - 2020-03-23 11:41 PM

As of 8.30 this evening there are 4 permitted reasons for leaving one's home. NONE of them include using a motorhome or travelling so let's all realise the desperate situation we are in, and obey the instructions.

Dick


what are the instructions for those whose motorHOME is their home?
userjumpstart
Posted: 24 March 2020 7:18 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 
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John52 - 2020-03-24 7:15 AM

DickB - 2020-03-23 11:41 PM

As of 8.30 this evening there are 4 permitted reasons for leaving one's home. NONE of them include using a motorhome or travelling so let's all realise the desperate situation we are in, and obey the instructions.

Dick


what are the instructions for those whose motorHOME is their home?


I would say its stay put.
userJohn52
Posted: 24 March 2020 7:19 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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Barryd999 - 2020-03-23 10:53 PM

John52 - 2020-03-23 10:09 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-03-23 9:31 PM

you have to stay at home so I imagine anyone found in the Scottish Highlands in a motorhome .


what if their home is a motor-home?


Well thats a different story. For Full Timers I really dont know what the answer is. Even Static caravan parks where people live all year round are sending people packing and some of them probably dont have other homes.

I have no idea how many full timers there are and I guess they will be off the Governments radar until they become a problem. If I were a full timer I would be probably have a couple of remote CL sites I was on good terms with and do a deal and just stay there. I guess its either that or rent flat or house.


Sites will be risking their planning permission if they let people in when they have been ordered to close.
As for renting an affordable flat or house thats more isolated than their motorhome, good luck with that.
userBarryd999
Posted: 24 March 2020 8:14 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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John52 - 2020-03-24 7:19 AM

Barryd999 - 2020-03-23 10:53 PM

John52 - 2020-03-23 10:09 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-03-23 9:31 PM

you have to stay at home so I imagine anyone found in the Scottish Highlands in a motorhome .


what if their home is a motor-home?


Well thats a different story. For Full Timers I really dont know what the answer is. Even Static caravan parks where people live all year round are sending people packing and some of them probably dont have other homes.

I have no idea how many full timers there are and I guess they will be off the Governments radar until they become a problem. If I were a full timer I would be probably have a couple of remote CL sites I was on good terms with and do a deal and just stay there. I guess its either that or rent flat or house.


Sites will be risking their planning permission if they let people in when they have been ordered to close.
As for renting an affordable flat or house thats more isolated than their motorhome, good luck with that.


CL' s are not sites and dont need planning permission. That said I imagine most will be closed and they may not be welcome anyway unless perhaps they are known to the farmer and they are willing to turn a blind eye.

A rented house would be more isolated than a motorhome though as no matter how prepared you think you are in a motorhome you still have to go outside every few days and access shared facilities and its likely you will need to find supplies more often. In theory if you need to self isolate because your ill can you stay inside your motorhome for two weeks without going out? I dont think so. Thats easily achievable in a house or a flat even.
userBillggski
Posted: 24 March 2020 8:20 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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Note page 2 reference to caravan sites.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874732/230320_-_Revised_guidance_note_-_finalVF.pdf


(CLs don't need permission but can only open for 28 days a year)

Edited by Billggski 2020-03-24 8:33 AM
userJohn52
Posted: 24 March 2020 8:59 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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Barryd999 - 2020-03-24 8:14 AM


A rented house would be more isolated than a motorhome though

Maybe it would out in the sticks where you live, but I doubt if full-timers culd afford that, and most people live in cramped housing.


Barryd999 - 2020-03-24 8:14 AM
as no matter how prepared you think you are in a motorhome you still have to go outside every few days and access shared facilities .

as you would if you were living in a flat or HMO or even a house. But at least when you go to the supermarket in a motorhome you can while away the time in self isolation until the queues subside. Or move on to another supermarket thats less crowded.
userJohn52
Posted: 24 March 2020 9:07 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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Billggski - 2020-03-24 8:20 AM

Note page 2 reference to caravan sites.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874732/230320_-_Revised_guidance_note_-_finalVF.pdf


(CLs don't need permission but can only open for 28 days a year)


I didn't know that, Thanks
But I still don't know whether they have been ordered to close like other caravan sites?
And I can't see this being over in 28 days - nobody seems to have an exit strategy.
At least I haven't heard of one.
This level of isolation can't continue for long - the economic damage is catastrophic
I realise its unseemly to talk about the economy when people come back with emotive virtue-signalling platitudes like 'people are dying' etc,,,,,,,,,
But, lets face it and be honest about it, the harsh reality is the economy is more important than even the nhs, because without the economy there would be no nhs.

Edited by John52 2020-03-24 9:20 AM
usergoldi
Posted: 24 March 2020 9:11 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 
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Good morning,

Does anyone seriously think that a jobsworth from the council planning dept is going to turn up under present circumstances and ask someone to move on ? They have enough to do, even if they are still at work
userBillggski
Posted: 24 March 2020 9:15 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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My point is that the CL's won't even be open, as they cater for holiday periods. Would they really welcome outsiders at this time?
userRobinhood
Posted: 24 March 2020 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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Billggski - 2020-03-24 8:20 AM

(CLs don't need permission but can only open for 28 days a year)


CLs/CSs have no limitation on their duration of opening under planning law (indeed, there are (were) quite obviously a large number around the country open all year round).

Club rallies, and THSs and their equivalents fall under parallel but different arrangements, and there is a "Gentleman's Agreement" with the authorised exempted bodies (incl. C&MC and C&CC) that the duration of these won't exceed 5 days and 28 days respectively.

Edited: 5/28 in wrong order.

Edited by Robinhood 2020-03-24 9:30 AM
userJohn52
Posted: 24 March 2020 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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goldi - 2020-03-24 9:11 AM

Good morning,

Does anyone seriously think that a jobsworth from the council planning dept is going to turn up under present circumstances and ask someone to move on ? They have enough to do, even if they are still at work


depends on the pressure they get from local nimbys on whom they depend for votes.
They were looking for an excuse to ban motorhomes before this virus was even heard of
coronovirus is more credible than some of the other excuses they have used
remember Scarborough council banning motorhomes from the marine drive on the grounds they blocked the view from residents windows
when the nearest windows were on the cliff top 100 feet above
userStuartO
Posted: 24 March 2020 9:40 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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Robinhood - 2020-03-24 9:17 AM

Billggski - 2020-03-24 8:20 AM

(CLs don't need permission but can only open for 28 days a year)


CLs/CSs have no limitation on their duration of opening under planning law (indeed, there are (were) quite obviously a large number around the country open all year round).

Club rallies, and THSs and their equivalents fall under parallel but different arrangements, and there is a "Gentleman's Agreement" with the authorised exempted bodies (incl. C&MC and C&CC) that the duration of these won't exceed 5 days and 28 days respectively.

Edited: 5/28 in wrong order.


Doesn't the 28 day limitation has something to do with not paying Council Tax to occupy a camp site pitch, which would be required for longer term occupation?
userSolwaybuggier
Posted: 24 March 2020 9:45 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 
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Surely in theory CLs & CSs get their exemption from planning requirements from their parent organisation- the CMHC, the CCC, MCC, etc. (Otherwise CLs and CSs wouldn’t be distinct.). So if the CMHC have told CLs to close, they’ve removed their delegated permission. But in practice, as has been said already, it’s pretty unlikely councils will take any enforcement action!

Whether any CL owner would want to take in a full timer, given the strength of anger (if you doubt it, look on local Facebook groups) caused by the actions of an irresponsible minority of motorhomers, is entirely another matter. Which doesn’t help the full timers.
userRobinhood
Posted: 24 March 2020 10:10 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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StuartO - 2020-03-24 9:40 AM

Doesn't the 28 day limitation has something to do with not paying Council Tax to occupy a camp site pitch, which would be required for longer term occupation?


There is no *planning* restriction on the length of opening of a CL/CS. The clubs are responsible for certification, and they may implement their own rules on top of these by arrangement with the site owner (for instance, a club "certificated" site does not, under planning law, have to be restricted to club members only - the main clubs implement this by (contractual) agreement with the site owner (and I know it gets flouted)). The site owner may themselves place some limitation on such stays.

I believe both the C&CC and C&MC impose a 28 day consecutive limit on a given unit's stay on CLs/CSs, and this may well be aligned to "Residential Campsite" legislation, but I can't (at the moment) find any such limit in the exemption regulations for CLs (though the 5 and 28 day limits for rallies and THSs are very clear).
userBillggski
Posted: 24 March 2020 11:28 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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https://www.hastings.gov.uk/planning/need/caravancamping/
userRobinhood
Posted: 24 March 2020 12:28 PM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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The description of the mechanisms available to recognised and authorised "Caravan Clubs" via exemption certificates, from Gov.uk (the bold italics are mine)

Caravan club exemptions

There are 3 types of exemption for caravan clubs. You’ll need to state which exemption you want in your application form.

Supervised and occupied sites exemption (THS)
This is known as a paragraph 4 exemption.

This exemption allows you (for up to 28 days) to:

use the site
let non-members bring and stay in their own caravan (if agreed with the landowner)
To be eligible for this type of exemption, you need to:

have someone to supervise the site
be able to sign a legal contract with the landowner or manager
consult local councils and planning authorities before using a site - and not use a site if the council objects


Approved sites exemption (CL/CS)
This is known as a paragraph 5 exemption.

With this exemption, your organisation can select sites for its members to stay on, by issuing certificates to the landowner or occupier. These certificates are valid for up to one year.

Non-members are allowed to stay on the site if your club and the landowner agree to it.

You’ll need to:

set a maximum limit of 5 caravans at a time for each site
have a system for consulting neighbours and the local licensing authority (Natural England, or the Scottish or Welsh governments) before issuing a certificate
have a system for inspecting the sites and dealing with complaints from the public
send copies of the certificates you issue to Natural England, or the Scottish or Welsh governments (depending on where your club is based)

Club meetings or rallies exemption (Rally)
This is known as a paragraph 6 exemption.

With this exemption, your club can use a site for club meetings, rallies or events. These meetings need to:

last no longer than 5 days
be supervised by a member of the club
be open to members only

usercharleydog
Posted: 25 March 2020 4:22 PM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 
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Stay away from small isolated villages, cos the old lady in the local shop gets very tired by keep moving her cat off the ham
userhtrevor
Posted: 25 March 2020 11:31 PM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 
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Billggski - 2020-03-22 4:58 PM

Let’s talk about just one of the people who has ‘escaped’ to the hills to ‘socially distance’ themselves. Let’s call him Brian. Brian has been at work all week, he isn’t lucky enough to work at home. Brian eats the lunch he carefully prepared at home on Tuesday, at his desk. Tom the cleaner cleaned Brian’s desk on Monday evening, but Tom had spent the weekend getting smashed in various pubs with his mates. Tom didn’t know it but he was infected. Before Tom cleaned Brian’s desk, he coughed into his hands. He doesn’t care about COVID-19 because he’s young and he believes it wont affect him. Whilst cleaning Brians desk he sheds some of the virus onto Brians keyboard. Brian has been using his keyboard all morning, and he just started eating his sandwich. Brian is now infected, but he wont show symptoms for another week.

Fast forward to the weekend and Brian decides, because he’s fit and healthy, he’s going to climb Snowdon with his wife. They arrive at Pen Y Pass after a 2 hour drive during which Brian shared some of his water with his wife. Brian is literally a virus incubator right now and if she hasn’t breathed in the virus, she’s covered in it, it’s only a matter of time. Brian pays his £10 parking charge using the machine and off he goes. There’s lots of lovely virus on the machine now, waiting for the next person...and the next...and the next. Brian and his wife decide to take the PYG track and it’s really busy. It’s so busy in fact that on the way up he has to wait in a queue to go over the stile at the Crib Goch junction. Brian isn’t wearing gloves today because the weather is nice and walking keeps you warm. He’s feeling a little more fatigued than usual though. Over the stile they both go, innocently shedding virus as they do. He’s sweating quite a bit and keeps wiping his face with his hand. At several points they have to put their hands on rock, the same rocks everyone else has to. Finally though, they get to the top, yay! They both have to wait in another queue to get onto the summit trig, which they touch, because it’s a kind of ritual. They don’t think about the 1000 other people who will do the same after them today. On the way down Brian’s wife takes a little tumble and twists her ankle. Mike, a local, comes over to offer assistance, which Is gratefully accepted. Mike and Brian support Brian’s wife to the bottom, Brian shake Mikes hand and they depart. Under normal circumstances Brian would take his wife to a minor injuries clinic, but they know the NHS is under strain because of the virus, it’s probably only a light sprain anyway, so they dont bother, they’re doing their bit to help by not going to hospital. Brian doesn’t know that he’s just infected countless people, and they don’t know either. Brian thinks what he is doing wont harm anyone and he goes home really happy with himself that he’s only doing what the government told him to do.

On the way home he really begins to feel rough but thinks he’s tired from the walk, so he stops for a coffee at the Shell garage in Betws Y Coed and gets himself a costa express coffee. After he’s chosen his drink using his bare hands on the touch screen, he uses some hand gel, because, he doesn’t want to catch the virus! He’s a responsible citizen though, so he keeps his distance from everyone else in the shop, 2 metres!

Brian has no idea he’s just unleashed a plague on North Wales in spectacular fashion.

Stay at home folks. Don’t be Brian.


Brilliant. This says it all. Just arrived back to uk but was still using supermarkets and those service units at Tankstations where you have fresh water one side and can empty your bog the other with often the odd turd or two visible. I have tried using rubber gloves but you you need to change the gloves 5 or 6 times with each visit to the supermarket or service point and then you will still touch something that might be contaminated. The only way in a van to thwart the virus is to have the groceries delivered or go to clic and collect and then wash the tins or whatever with soap and water for 30 seconds and bed down in a place that has water and a separate and clean toilet disposal and spray the taps before using with something like Detol. Hard work but the only way to minimise the risks.
userMuswell
Posted: 26 March 2020 7:06 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 
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htrevor - 2020-03-25 11:31 PM
Brilliant. This says it all. Just arrived back to uk but was still using supermarkets and those service units aand then wash the tins or whatever with soap and water for 30 seconds and bed down in a place that has water and a separate and clean toilet disposal and spray the taps before using with something like Detol. Hard work but the only way to minimise the risks.


We have a quarantine system for incoming goods. The virus can survive for 72 hours so were have 3 boxes, one per day. That minimises the amount of washing.
usergoldi
Posted: 26 March 2020 9:53 AM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 
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Good morning,

Near where I used to live there was a bloke who lived on a cl all through summer in his caravan and then went to spain for the winter. He did this for years .
userJohn52
Posted: 26 March 2020 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 


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So its OK for Prince Charles to take Coronovirus to the highlands?
- (after having a test that front line workers can't have so have to live separated from their families.)
userDavieR
Posted: 26 March 2020 10:31 PM
Subject: RE: everyone off to scottish highlands then?
 
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John52 - 2020-03-26 9:26 PM

So its OK for Prince Charles to take Coronovirus to the highlands?
- (after having a test that front line workers can't have so have to live separated from their families.)


No, it's not OK. Not on any level.
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