carolh Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Help required please In advance please excuse the non technical jargon. I went out in the van on Friday and after 30 miles I noticed that the clutch pedal was slow to return to it's normal position - at one point I had to stop and go into 1st gear and I usually put my foot to the floor when I come to a halt - hand brake on and then out of gear. The clutch pedal stayed down!! oh oh! after an agonising 5 seconds it slowly came up and I just dipped it enough to get into gear and off I went, every time I changed gear it was slow to return. Luckily I was only a couple of miles from my destination. After a couple of hours the pedal was back to normal - nice and firm and returning straight to it's normal position. I checked the fluid in the reservoir - all ok. Drove home today with heart in mouth! I only dipped the clutch enough to change gear - I do normal press it down quite far, even though there is no need. It was fine all the way home!! Why do these things happen when I am on my own?? Ok so what do I do next? I paid for an extended warranty. Does it have to go back to Camper UK (where we bought it, or can I take it to my local garage? There was/is something obviously wrong - but what? carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 CarolHow long had it stood before you drove it the first time you noticed the clutch pedal was slow to return?You should press the pedal down fully before engaging, or changing, gear, otherwise the clutch plates don't clear properly, putting excess strain on the synchromesh cones.My guess, if the van had stood idle for a while, is that water had penetrated the engine bay in the vicinity of the clutch mechanism, and the actuating lever pivot bearing had partially seized due to rusting. Some oil/grease, depending on the type of pivot bearing, should fix the problem, but wait until Dave, or someone who knows the oily bits better than me, comes along before you rush off to your garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 My Fiat 2.3 has a cable operated clutch. If it were my van I would firstly suspect a sticking cable in which case lubrication may help but I would be inclined to seek a competent motor mechanic's opinion. I would remove the cable check and maybe lubricate it if it is intact and undamaged, but replace it if there are any signs whatsoever of internal wear or fraying or of external casing damage. At the same time check all the other moving bits for free running. It could still be the clutch plate or release and/or thrust mechanism but the cable is the more likely culprit - I hope. If the van is under warranty you may need to go to a Fiat dealer, but a quick call to your supplying dealer should clarify that. DO NOT ignore it, because due to the huge leverage exerted by the clutch pedal the cable could easily break leaving you well and truly stuck up a certain creek sans paddle - so to speak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 If it is a cable clutch I agree the cable is a possible culprit, and needs investigation. However, Carol implied it is hydraulic ("checked the levels" etc). Any doubts at all with the cable, I'd say replace it. They aren't that expensive, lubrication only puts off the evil day, and a new cable transforms the way the clutch feels after using a knackered one, and a busted cable causes BIG problems. They never break just before you drive off, always when you're somewhere really difficult! :-) However, if it is the cable, I'm puzzled that it seemed to improve after use. All the sticky clutch cables I've come across got worse as the engine warmed up, not better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Easy way to check cable or hydraulic is to see how many fluid reservoirs there are. One for brakes One for power steering One for clutch (maybe) Not to be confused with two water reservoirs - for coolant and screen wash! If all else fails - look at the handbook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 There are a few possibilities for Carol's clutch problem (and yes it is a hydraulic clutch, and I'm fairly confident that if you look carefully Richard you will find that yours is too, it shares the fluid reservoir with the brakes). anyway some possibilities are: The rubber bung from the old clutch cable hole in the bulkhead has fallen down into the pedal return spring jamming it temporarily. To avoid retooling costs the bulkhead is the same as the previous generation that did use a cable clutch, they just fit a large rubber bung in the hole. A sticky or lazy slave cylinder. A sticky or lazy master cylinder. I'd suggest your best bet is to get professional advice from a reliable garage, if you know of one. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 You're right Dave - it was so flippin wet this afternoon I didn't check properly as the brake and clutch do indeed share a common fluid reservoir with the master cylinder being inside the cab right under the pedal. I had not realised they had changed from cable to hydraulic as my early Boxer's were cable but as none of them ever gave any trouble I never had need to check! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolh Posted January 20, 2008 Author Share Posted January 20, 2008 yes it is a hydraulic clutch and shares the reservoir with the brakes. It last had a run when we came back from being away at new year, on the the 2nd and I had no problems then. I will make a few telephone calls tomorrow after work and call in at the garage I have my car serviced and mot'd and that does the odd jobs on the van. And take it from there, thanks for the help and advice - Carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 We are a vehicle rental firm in Leicester and run our own garage to service our fleet of 100 vehicles, all Fiat or Iveco. We also service several hundred other vehicles for our customers. Although not terribly common on Fiat Ducato, the 02 onwards vans with Hydraulic clutches do occasionally require new slave cylinders. The symptoms that you have described sound exactly right. We have done about 20 slave cylinders on these Fiats in the last few years, interestingly enough about 15 of these were failures following fitting new clutches. There is no logical reason for the slave cylinder to be renewed at the same time as a clutch, and on the Fiat this is merely an inconvenience because it is an easy job to fit, but not always that easy to bleed afterwards. Normally you will get a warning with the pedal going to the floor which you can lift up with either hand or foot and get a few more miles out of it. Other makes are less straightforward. 2000 onwards Transits have the slave cylinder inside the gearbox, and these fail far more often than the Fiat ones so we would never fit a clutch to a Transit without changing the slave cylinder at the same time. Basically we have decided it is now 'best practice' to do it every time on all vehicles for the relatively modest extra cost involved. Hope this helps you as well as others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemoss Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Just wanted to say welcome and thankyou to euroserve after reading this post and another on the thread about kangaroo-style reversing with latest-model Fiats. Great to get practical, expert comments and advice straight from the van owner's mouth, as it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panagah Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 euroserv - 2008-01-23 2:49 PM We are a vehicle rental firm in Leicester and run our own garage to service our fleet of 100 vehicles, all Fiat or Iveco. We also service several hundred other vehicles for our customers. Although not terribly common on Fiat Ducato, the 02 onwards vans with Hydraulic clutches do occasionally require new slave cylinders. The symptoms that you have described sound exactly right. We have done about 20 slave cylinders on these Fiats in the last few years, interestingly enough about 15 of these were failures following fitting new clutches. There is no logical reason for the slave cylinder to be renewed at the same time as a clutch, and on the Fiat this is merely an inconvenience because it is an easy job to fit, but not always that easy to bleed afterwards. Normally you will get a warning with the pedal going to the floor which you can lift up with either hand or foot and get a few more miles out of it. Other makes are less straightforward. 2000 onwards Transits have the slave cylinder inside the gearbox, and these fail far more often than the Fiat ones so we would never fit a clutch to a Transit without changing the slave cylinder at the same time. Basically we have decided it is now 'best practice' to do it every time on all vehicles for the relatively modest extra cost involved. Hope this helps you as well as others. \yes welcome euroser you are becoming a sourse of knowlege for what us fiat owners can expect inthe future :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolh Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 Well it's been to CamperUk and of course the clutch pedal isn't sticking now is it?? So they have taken the mh out and driven it around and brought it back and taken it out and driven it around some more and still the fault won't re-appear. Sods Law isn't it? They have contacted Fiat in case there has been a recall - but have not received a reply yet. So I suppose I will just have to bring it home and hope it was just a one off. Could it have been? And keep my fingers crossed that it doesn't happen when we are in sunny France later on in the year. Oh well, watch this space - and lets just hope it stays empty :-S Carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 They do have a sense of humour, Carol, don't they?!!If you have the Fiat Commercial repairers booklet, that lists all the European Fiat Commercial repairers, you should be able to find a repairer near wherever you are in France should the problem arise again. If it does, and you have breakdown cover, ring the breakdown and tell them which repairer appears to be nearest - if they don't already know, which I think they will. The repair will probably be cheaper in France than in UK, and I don't think RHD should be a problem with a hydraulic clutch. If you don't have the booklet a Fiat commercial repairer should be able to get one for you. He should also be able to tell you whether LHD and RHD clutch master and slave cylinders are any different. If they are, and you just want complete peace of mind, I suppose your best option will be to bite the bullet and get it changed before you go. However, before you do anything that rash, have a good nose around the clutch pedal and the slave cylinder, just to see of there is anything loose that may have caught on either to cause the problem. A bit of curled up carpet, perhaps, or a cable, or loose hose under the bonnet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Hello everybody, Hope this reassures you in your travels; I can confirm that the clutch master and slave cylinders on these vehicles are the same in LHD and RHD. Most likely to be a problem is the Slave cylinder Part number is 55200626 and last time I looked it was about £20 plus VAT Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie123 Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 This has happened to me on two occasions once after about 1000 miles from brand new, and once after about 2000 miles. I have guessed (because the fault is so random) that it may be down to the cab carpet being pushed up against the pedal arm. I constantly re-adjust the carpet now and touch wood the problem appears to have gone away. If you have an after market cab carpet check it is not moving around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Hi, Does, or did, the problem only occur on a very cold or Frosty morning. I have seen the problem on a couple of Ducatos (sorry one was a Boxer) and it only happens on very Frosty mornings. After the Engine has idled for a bit or driven a mile or so and heat gets through to the Slave cylinder, and the pedal eased up and returns much quicker. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolh Posted February 3, 2008 Author Share Posted February 3, 2008 Well it's been with camperuk since Monday and I picked it up yesterday, they have taken the mh out for drives and the problem will not repeat itself. And it was ok driving there and home again (round trip of approx 60 miles). The carpet was the first to be yanked out of the way - and it made no difference at the time. So unless something has dropped down behind the clutch pedal linkage, then it will remain a mystery until it happens again! Thanks for the replies folks, it's much appreciated. Carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 euroserv - 2008-01-31 1:27 AM Hello everybody, Hope this reassures you in your travels; I can confirm that the clutch master and slave cylinders on these vehicles are the same in LHD and RHD. Most likely to be a problem is the Slave cylinder Part number is 55200626 and last time I looked it was about £20 plus VAT Nick Could someone who lives in the Leicester area please buy this man several pints?!! These contributions are invaluable. Thanks again, Euroserv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel64 Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Brian you could send a cheque as we all know what a gentleman you are about £2.20 a pint tenner would be about right (lol) I thing he would drink you health and wealth. Only poor OAP myself so i do not have £10 :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Thank you - I think! Shan't be supping in Dunstable though, at those prices. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Brian Kirby - 2008-02-04 11:36 PM Thank you - I think! Shan't be supping in Dunstable though, at those prices. :-) Why ever not? Is it too cheap for your tastes? The average here is £3.10. :-D :-D :-D Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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