snowy Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Hi. I have a 2014 Pilote Reference 720 motorhome. I was informed by the tracking company that my battery was down to 10,5volts, I have a 100watt solar panel fitted and it was fully charged 3 weeks before when I checked it...I went to the van a few days later and had to start it off the jump leads to my car. ( all good). I noticed the side marker lights on, I checked to see any other lights on but only those on each side of the van. I am now unable to turn them off. The dealer mentioned that if I had turned the engine off with the indicators on, that might turn the side lights on. I have tried all sorts of configurations with the lights and indicators, still on. I wondered if anyone else had had this problem and how did they fix it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 It used to be the case (perhaps still is) with some cars that - with the ignition-key removed - moving the direction-indicator stalk to the ‘indicating-right’ or ‘indicating-left’ position would cause the car’s parking lights on the right or left side of the vehicle to illuminate. The posting on this 2013 MHFacts link http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/182-electrical/106865-fiat-ducato-sidelight-control-3.html suggests that Peugeot Boxers may have a similar facility - but (as I’m sure you are aware) the handbook-advised procedure for turning a 2014 Ducato’s parking lights on involves moving the vehicle’s ignition key to the STOP position (or removing the key) and then rotating the left steering-column-mounted stalk’s ring to the ‘lights on’ position. A warning light on the instrument panel then illuminates. But this procedure causes the front and rear parking lights to come on as well as any marker lights on the vehicle’ sides. You could try making sure all lights-related switches in the cab are in their OFF position and then disconnect the starter-battery, leave it disconnected for a while and then reconnect it to see if that does any good. (If your solar panel charges the starter-battery, I suggest you disconnect the panel before disconnecting the starter-battery.) If that doesn’t fix the problem, the logical next step would be for someone to check whether there are stored fault-codes that can be reset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Do you know if the marker lights were on before the jumpstart or only noticed them afterwards? Some side marker lights are powered from the Habitation area Controller/Charger and these units have been known to suffer damage when the vehicle is jumpstarted. It is possible that the Marker warning lights remaining permanently lit are a symptom of the habitation control box having suffered damage during the jumpstart. I think there were some Posts on here warning of issues caused by Jump Starting a Motorhome and how/why damage may occur but can't find any. Suggest you check all functionality in the habitation area of the vehicle, all lights, Fridge on all settings, Heating, charging on mains and especially from the Alternator, etc to maybe rule out jumpstart damage isn't the cause of your marker light issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Allan There are a few forum threads that mention possible electrical damage occurring if a motothome is junp-started. The most recent thread refers to the advice on your own website (?) (?) (?) http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/jump-starting-a-motorhome.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 I searched for that post but it didn't come up in a search, all I could find was the post on not starting the MH engine when on EHU. Thank you for finding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 The Out&AboutLive “Search our Forums” feature is pretty poor - I use GOOGLE Advanced Search unless I know exactly what I’m looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowy Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Thank you for all the advice you have given on my problem. I never noticed when I left the van 3 weeks previously if the lights were on then. It was after jump starting I noticed them on. I didn,t realise that a motorhome should never be started off jumps leads. I am not into electrics, but would of thought there was safeties in place to stop this from happening. I have learned a lesson here. I will be going to the m/home tomorrow to check on the advice given of what to check. I will come back with a report after checking it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 snowy - 2018-01-07 8:28 PM ...I didn,t realise that a motorhome should never be started off jumps leads... The advice on Allan’s website is cautionary and boils down to “Avoid jump-starting a motorhome if it’s at all practicable.” This might mean charging the starter-battery until it can restart the vehicle, or replacing the flat battery with a charged one. But I’ve read (on motorhome forums!) comments about peculiar electrical problems resulting from a starter-battery having simply been disconnected. There are also plenty of on-line warnings about jump-starting cars, never mind motorhomes (example here) https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/42306/what-are-the-risks-of-jump-starting-a-modern-car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowy Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 Hi. I went and checked my m/home today, connected the cab battery and started it, side lights still on. I went for a 20 mile trip to warm every thing up and give the batteries a good charge. On returning to storage, I connected to Mains Electric and checked to see if everything was working, all ok. The same on 12 volt Habitation batteries. I tried disconnecting the solar panel from the regulator, disconnected the habitation batteries, lights still on. There is no electrical drawing showing the lighting circuit in my Fiat booklets, so at a total loss of what to do next, unless I have missed something you know of. I misunderstood Allan asking, if I had noticed if the side lights were on before I had started the van after discovering them on. The answer was no, I think the battery was to flat for them to be on. Sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Allan said "Some side marker lights are powered from the Habitation area Controller/Charger...” But it’s just as likely (probably more likely) that your Pilote’s side marker lights are powered from the motorhome’s starter-battery, and if that’s the case with your motorhome, disconnecting the habitation-battery would have no effect. As I suggested earlier, you could try disconnecting the STARTER-battery. I can’t say I’m optimistic that this would fix the fault, but who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowy Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 I have to disconnect the starter/cab battery each time I leave the van to turn side marker lights off and save the battery from going flat. I disconnected the Habitation batteries as I noticed on the Schaudt EBL 271 block drawing there is a mention of the marker lights, which I think goes through a relay. But I was clutching at straws to see if they would turn off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 There are a few motorhome forum comments about the amber side marker lamps fitted to longer Ducato-based models https://tinyurl.com/y977jcrm but I think all of the discussions relate to the lamps not illuminating, rather than the lamps staying continuously illuminated. If your Pilote’s 6 amber marker lamps are powered by the starter-battery via a relay, if the relay is stuck ON that would cause the fault, with the lamps going off only when you disconnect the starter-battery. But that’s really just stating the obvious. If an electrical fault had developed that caused the marker lamps to come on while your Pilote was standing idle and this resulted in the starter-battery being flattened, jump-starting the motorhome may not have caused the present problem. Allan asked if you knew whether the marker lamps were illuminated before you jump-started the motorhome but (as you commented) it’s possible that the starter-battery was so deeply discharged that the lamps would not illuminate. You might want to browse through the relevant forum threads in the above link, but unless you get lucky I think you’ll need to take a trip to a Pilote dealer or Fiat agent to get this sorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowy Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 I checked the link you sent and have learned a lot more now about the lights. As you say it could be relay stuck on. There is a mention of a trigger signal (D+)?. I see on the Schaudt Drawing a Control Signal BG. which I think might be the signal for the relay?. I am not sure what this is, or where it comes from, possible it is giving a constant feed to relay. Would appreciate if anyone knows what this is. I contacted the Fiat who do my Servicing, they said it would be best to take it to the Pilote Dealer. I am afraid I do not have much faith in them, they always seem to do the same job 2 or 3 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Snowy, please can you tell me what Schaudt equipment you have installed, I can then go through the wiring diagrams and see what I can find? Is it by any chance a Schaudt Elektroblock EBL 226? If so, there might be an accessory unit, AD02, that controls various items, so can you look around the EBL for little Blue coloured 'boxes' as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowy Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 allan. I have a Schaudt Electroblock EBL 271. To the left of the unit is a small one that is marked PLT02. Just above that is a small blue box. I am unable to see what it is, it was on a photo I took one time. It is a Schaudt unit. It has some foreign words on it. If you want me to email the photo I can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 ....there is a picture of the AD01 "box" that Alan refers to in this thread, here (which incidentally details a problem similar to your own, but doesn't come to a conclusion). http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Hints-and-Tips/Side-Marker-Lights/40829/?DisplayType=nested&setcookie=1&go= If your position lights are indeed supplied through such an addition, there are a number of steps you can take to try and pinpoint the problem. Try to confirm that you have this, and then we can talk you through the appropriate action(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Hello Snowy, On the EBL 271 it drives the Side Marker lights directly via Block 7 pins 11 (the +) and Pin 5 (the negative). The control signal comes in on Block 7 Pins 8 and 9 from the Body Control ECU module. That doesn't mean that Adria have used this functionality, but it is provided for on the EBL. A while ago we got an email that went - "having an issue with what we believe is an EBL 271. It is installed in a Pilote/Fiat motorhome 2012 and the fault is that the body marker lights are always on since we have replaced the engine ECU. We have been in touch with the supplying motorhome dealer and they have told us the EBL has been spiked during battery disconnection and they can supply us a replacement at £475 +VAT". This email suggests that Adria do indeed drive the marker lights from the EBL 271. However, the power source used by the EBL 271 is the Starter battery feed through the 20a fuse to the Fridge. This fuse is located amongst a cluster of 3 fuses next to the Starter battery, a 50A, a 20a and a 2a. I think that if you remove this 20a supply fuse to the Fridge, the lights should go out, but obviously the Fridge won't work on 12v and the 'display' might not be able to show the Starter Batteries state. If you remove the 15 way Plug from Block 7, the side marker lights should also go out. Obviously everything driven by this same plug will also fail to operate. However, according to my diagram they are all 'Spares' except for the Electrically operated foldaway bed, but again may have been wired by Adria for some function. SUMMARY. I would suggest, like the other EBL 271 owners who emailed above, the EBL has been spiked by the jump start. Possibly spiked directly by the Body control ECU which reacted adversely to the jumpstart in some way? If you remove the 20 amp fuse spoken of above by the starter battery (suggest you replace it with a 25 amp fuse at a later date, not 20amp) it will deactivate the side marker lights so that you don't need to keep disconnecting the battery while this gets sorted out. The Adria Dealer should be able to repair the EBL, it shouldn't need replacement for such an easy fault fix, so suggest you don't fork out over £600 for a new one. If they can't repair the EBL, we can for an awful lot less money. See how you get on removing the 20a fuse and Block 7 to see if it confirms our diagnosis? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowy Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 I do not have the Adapter HD01 fitted to my m/home. Saying that, I have,nt seen anything that looks like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowy Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Allan. Thank you for sending me the report on what you believe to be the fault. I am supposed to be off to Spain on the 21st of this month. I will give you a phone call in the morning to discuss the repair if that is possible before I go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Hello Snowy, yes that is fine, Tel : 07803 072636. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowy Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 I would like to thank you for the help and information you have given to me on the lighting problem, very much appreciated. I have booked it in for repairs to the Schaudt ELB271 with aandncaravanservices next week. Then looking forward to the Spanish sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 This morning we removed Snowy's Schaudt Elektroblock EBL 271 for testing/repair to find it had suffered damage during the jumpstart and the circuitry controlling the marker lights was damaged. The Elektroblock was repaired successfully, then refitted by 14:00 this afternoon. All seems to be working well with Marker lights extinguishing as expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowy Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 Hello. Thank you Allan for the repairs you carried out on the Schaudt Unit. The marker lights are now working as they should. They had a good test on the trip home from North Wales, with the difference in the weather conditions on the way home. Thanks for all the information and advice you gave me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Snowy/Vernon, I hope you don't mind me putting this email extract in here, it is related to the thread : "I would like to thank you once again for the excellent and prompt service you gave to me when I travelled to North Wales. The repairs to the Schaudt EBL 271 unit certainly saved my holiday to Spain, the Ferry had already been booked for that weekend. I just wish that all companies were as friendly and efficient as yours. Vernon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowy Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 Hello Allan. No. I do not mind at all. You are more than welcome. I can not sing your praise high enough for the repair you carried out, and all the effort you put into giving advice on this Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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