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Towing limits - even the Dealers dont agree
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userAliton
Posted: 29 June 2009 8:57 PM
Subject: Towing limits - even the Dealers dont agree
 
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Having shopped about for a caravan which I can tow with Toyota Rav 4x4 2.2d most dealers "dive" onto Tow-safe website" and give you a print off. Toyota Rav 4 log book says it can tow up to 2000 kg but I understand that it should be based on 85% of the curbweight of the towing vehicle. Then to confuse it further experianced caravaners can legally tow up to 100% of the tow car weight. Can anyone help with the correct answer to all of this ? . I will be driving/ towing most weeks while some will only take the rig out twice a year. Imagine if drivers who just passed a driving test could only drive vehicle up to 1300 cc and then after a year they could buy anything they like.. it wouldnt be managable would it?. Surely the law is the law for towing so what is the law on this . Anyone know please.. I guess the letter law would be "not exceeding the manufactrers spec" as shown in the manual.
userKlyne
Posted: 29 June 2009 9:59 PM
Subject: RE: Towing limits - even the Dealers dont agree
 


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Aliton - 2009-06-29 8:57 PM

Having shopped about for a caravan which I can tow with Toyota Rav 4x4 2.2d most dealers "dive" onto Tow-safe website" and give you a print off. Toyota Rav 4 log book says it can tow up to 2000 kg but I understand that it should be based on 85% of the curbweight of the towing vehicle. Then to confuse it further experianced caravaners can legally tow up to 100% of the tow car weight. Can anyone help with the correct answer to all of this ? . I will be driving/ towing most weeks while some will only take the rig out twice a year. Imagine if drivers who just passed a driving test could only drive vehicle up to 1300 cc and then after a year they could buy anything they like.. it wouldnt be managable would it?. Surely the law is the law for towing so what is the law on this . Anyone know please.. I guess the letter law would be "not exceeding the manufactrers spec" as shown in the manual.


The 85% suggestion was designed as a guideline for those new to towing. The law has two elements. One, whether you passed your driving test before or after 1997. If before you can tow any combination of car and caravan (within the rules I shall mention in a moment) If you passed your test after 1997 and have not taken an addition test to allow you to tow at a higher weight you are restricted to 3500kgs max combined weight. Moving oof to car towing limits, the second element of the law. You can tow up to the maximum design tow weight of your vehicle. So in your case 2000kgs. Now this would be in excess of vehicle kerbweight and we could debate whether this was sensible albeit within the law! My own advice would be to try and stay below vehicle kerbweight if you can as it gives you a greater safety margin. This website is good at matching cars and caravans www.whattowcar.com

David
userAliton
Posted: 30 June 2009 9:27 PM
Subject: RE: Towing limits - even the Dealers dont agree
 
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Thanks Dave for that info. I guess the safe thing to do is take it steady and keep any extra weight on board the caravan to a minimum when towing. I was told quite clearly by one of the sales reps at Catterick Caravans that with my car ( RAV 4 ) maximum towing in technical book is 2000kg it would be "no problem" loading the caravan up to the maximum MTPL , what he should have said was buy a lighter caravan. We went to the dealer next door in Catterick and he threw his arms up in horror at the thought of a Toyota Rav 4 with curb weight of 1585kg towing a Compass Rallye 544 with a Mass In Run Ord of 1372kg.

These guys should be regulated and properly trained all they seem to be after is a SALE and commission and evry one seesm to have a "differant slant" on the Tow safe printout ( which is a guide ) and the official towing Law as the Authorities would read it.
userKlyne
Posted: 30 June 2009 10:48 PM
Subject: RE: Towing limits - even the Dealers dont agree
 


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At the end of the day it is your responsibility to make sure what you tow is within the law not a salesman. Of course he should not mislead you but I suspect the referral to the Towsure website is an insurance policy! Everything else is just advice. Technically you could tow a twin axle weighing 1800kgs with your car and still be legal. Whether you or the outfit would feel comfortable is an entirely different matter!

David
userSyd
Posted: 30 June 2009 11:44 PM
Subject: RE: Towing limits - even the Dealers dont agree
 
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Location: Sunderland


Take a look here

http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/Documents/Matching%20Car%20and%20Caravan.pdf


And Here

http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/datasheets/
user602
Posted: 22 July 2009 3:54 PM
Subject: RE: Towing limits - even the Dealers dont agree
 
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Hi,

A dealer once told me I needed a bigger car to pull the boat he was trying to sell me.

The boat (23ft canal cruiser) weighed 25cwt. Then there was the outboard motor, and all the other stuff like anchors and spikes etc. And of course, the trailer, at say 15cwt.

My car was a 1200cc Hillman Avenger. The dealer said I needed at least 1500cc. But this was circa 1970.

602
userBlizzard
Posted: 3 October 2009 4:50 PM
Subject: RE: Towing limits - even the Dealers dont agree
 


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Aliton - 2009-06-30 9:27 PM


Thanks Dave for that info. I guess the safe thing to do is take it steady and keep any extra weight on board the caravan to a minimum when towing. I was told quite clearly by one of the sales reps at Catterick Caravans that with my car ( RAV 4 ) maximum towing in technical book is 2000kg it would be "no problem" loading the caravan up to the maximum MTPL , what he should have said was buy a lighter caravan. We went to the dealer next door in Catterick and he threw his arms up in horror at the thought of a Toyota Rav 4 with curb weight of 1585kg towing a Compass Rallye 544 with a Mass In Run Ord of 1372kg.

These guys should be regulated and properly trained all they seem to be after is a SALE and commission and evry one seesm to have a "differant slant" on the Tow safe printout ( which is a guide ) and the official towing Law as the Authorities would read it.



Unless I'm misreading your post, the sales guy at Catterick has given you the correct information.

You can legally tow up to 2000kg and it will easily cope with your Compass.
userChrisK5
Posted: 29 December 2009 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: Towing limits - even the Dealers dont agree
 
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You can legally tow what the manufacturer has stated on the vin plate which will state,
front and rear axle weights, gross vehicle weight and gross train weight.
if you deduct gross vehicle weight from gross train weight you will have the max (gross) weight of caravan.
As long as you are within these limits PC plod wont prosecute you.
If you are thinking of buying a new car check the vin plate on the model in the show room.
85% rule as stated by both caravan clubs is rubbish and is onl;y given as a general guide.
Easy really but so many people have a problem with this subject.

Edited by ChrisK5 2009-12-29 10:22 PM
userPJay
Posted: 29 December 2009 11:11 PM
Subject: RE: Towing limits - even the Dealers dont agree
 
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Is there any age restriction on towing, a caravan? ie like 3500tn when over 70 (unless you take amedical) for a MH ?Not planning to tow, but just interested.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 29 December 2009 11:55 PM
Subject: RE: Towing limits - even the Dealers dont agree
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


ChrisK5 - 2009-12-29 10:18 PM You can legally tow what the manufacturer has stated on the vin plate which will state, front and rear axle weights, gross vehicle weight and gross train weight. if you deduct gross vehicle weight from gross train weight you will have the max (gross) weight of caravan. As long as you are within these limits PC plod wont prosecute you. If you are thinking of buying a new car check the vin plate on the model in the show room. 85% rule as stated by both caravan clubs is rubbish and is onl;y given as a general guide. Easy really but so many people have a problem with this subject.

Legally, you are right, but the 85% rule is not presented as a legal restriction, it is given as advice intended to ensure, so far as possible, that a wide variety of drivers, towing a wide variety of caravans, with a wide variety of towcars, under all weather conditions, do not encounter stability problems.  Describing it as rubbish is no more helpful than claiming it is a legal restriction.  You have omitted a further restriction, which is the permissible downforce on the towball, or caravan noseweight.  This must not be exceeded either.  Similar advice from the clubs is that this should be in the region of 7% of the actual laden weight of the caravan, though 10% is more often quoted across the Channel.  Again, this is aimed at achieving stability.  Both the 85% rule, and the advised noseweight minimum omit any benefit from stabilisers, electronic or mechanical.

userSyd
Posted: 30 December 2009 8:42 AM
Subject: RE: Towing limits - even the Dealers dont agree
 
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Location: Sunderland


One towing point that is not mentioned here is that if your caravan is 8ft wide, regardless of weight, I believe that you will be breaking the law if you tow it with anything weighing less than 3501kg, in other words a commercial vehicle.

Edited by Syd 2009-12-30 8:43 AM
userterryathome
Posted: 22 March 2010 7:45 PM
Subject: RE: Towing limits - even the Dealers dont agree
 
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People are talking about increasing the 85% to 90%
Any comments?
userBasil
Posted: 23 March 2010 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: Towing limits - even the Dealers dont agree
 
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terryathome - 2010-03-22 7:45 PM

People are talking about increasing the 85% to 90%
Any comments?


This would pose no problem to a driver that knew how to load the caravan properly and drive the combination correctly. We towed for years with a virtually 100% combination (Peugeot 405 GTDT towing a Homecar Rally 532AK twin axle) absolutely impecable performance up to and beyond the UK maximum speed.
The existing 85% can be just as big a problem with a badly loaded caravan.

Bas

Edited by Basil 2010-03-23 4:02 PM
userTheTravellingRooster
Posted: 2 November 2010 11:29 PM
Subject: RE: Towing limits - even the Dealers dont agree
 
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Aliton - 2009-06-29 8:57 PMHaving shopped about for a caravan which I can tow with Toyota Rav 4x4 2.2d most dealers "dive" onto Tow-safe website" and give you a print off. Toyota Rav 4 log book says it can tow up to 2000 kg but I understand that it should be based on 85% of the curbweight of the towing vehicle. Then to confuse it further experianced caravaners can legally tow up to 100% of the tow car weight. Can anyone help with the correct answer to all of this ? . I will be driving/ towing most weeks while some will only take the rig out twice a year. Imagine if drivers who just passed a driving test could only drive vehicle up to 1300 cc and then after a year they could buy anything they like.. it wouldnt be managable would it?. Surely the law is the law for towing so what is the law on this . Anyone know please.. I guess the letter law would be "not exceeding the manufactrers spec" as shown in the manual.


Hi Aliton,& anyone else following this post. It is not the case that experienced Caravanner's can legally tow up-to 100% of the Tow-car weight. A Towcar/vehicle can be heavier than the maximum permitted Towing Weight of its self.The maximum that a vehicle can legally tow is what it says on the Vin Plate of the vehicle.
The maximum advised to Experience Caravanner's is 100% of the Kerbweight of the Towcar/Vehicle,this is a totally different thing and should not be confused.
Furthermore,the only way to be sure of the Towcar/Vehicle kerbweight is to take it to a Weighbridge,either one that is calibrated in 10kg increments or A Dynamic Axle Weighbridge (accurate to 0.5%,as used by VOSA). There are, to add further confusion in a very muddy pond;two ways of defining Kerbweight. However the one that conforms with EU Directive 95/48/EC is the one that is supposed to be that which the Manufacturers are complying with (Don't kid yourself).The definition of EU Directive 95/48/EC is such;your vehicle as it left the manufacturer with all oils & fluids to function safely & correctly,a 90% full fuel tank,a 68kg driver & 7kgs luggage.
On the subject of the Data Base(mentioned in the post by Aliton),I was faced by a rather over enthusiastic and then belligerent Caravan Salesman when I told him that the info on my car was Utter Tosh!. He insisted that it was correct because T**-s**e said so. My car is a 1997 Volvo T5 CD Auto. It was listed as 1392kgs,there have been 4 other figures throw up!!,all for the same car!!.
The kerbweight after adjustments for towing gear,is 1638kgs. A long way from 1392kgs. My maximum tow weight is 1600kg,so going back to my point;I nor nobody can tow above 1600kgs with this car. The caravan is under utilised and used as a large 2berth,it is a 2001 Elddis Crusader SuperSirocco, MiRO 1426kgs & MTPLM 1750kgs. It is loaded by monitoring the weight that goes in,and rolls at 1580kgs.The car has myself as driver,1 passenger & an Adjusted Tomcat. Anything over the 1580kgs goes in the car,all weight is distributed so as to make for a safe outfit.
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