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Airbus CEO fires a warning shot over "Brexit madness"
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userBrian Kirby
Posted: 26 January 2019 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: Airbus CEO fires a warning shot over "Brexit madness"
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2019-01-26 12:47 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 11:51 AM
I assume you have heard of a Phyrric victory? It is what you are flirting with and, like the man from Gloucester on Paul's brilliant LBC clip, you have never provided a rational or intelligent argument in support of your case.

Which is exactly what you EU lovers will win by forcing us to remain in the EU ..........
Do you actually think we will become good little Europeans all of a sudden? .........
If the EU thought we were belligerent before.........you can times that by 17 million if you thwart Brexit .......

Thanks Dave, but I missed your answer. You haven't now moved to Gloucester, have you?
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 January 2019 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: Airbus CEO fires a warning shot over "Brexit madness"
 


Walks with the gods

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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 12:50 PM

Speaking for myself, I'm still open to being persuaded that is what awaits us, but no Brexiter has yet come up with anything that convinces me. It is all belief, pious hope, flim-flam, smoke and mirrors, and Land of Hope and Glory thinking, to me.

I just need someone (preferably several such) of substance to set out how they see it all working, in the absence of which, I am more persuaded by those, also of substance, who have set out what we have, and how it is likely to work if we leave.


Give over Brian ..........Your just as firmly entrenched as us Brexiteers .........

userTracker
Posted: 26 January 2019 12:55 PM
Subject: RE: Airbus CEO fires a warning shot over "Brexit madness"
 


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Location: Vanless in Evesham.


The point is Brian, that nobody really knows how it will pan out as nobody has ever done this before.

I understand your reluctance to ditch what you see as future security in favour of the unknown but as I see it from a very non expert perspective the remain 'experts' have done a far better job in the last two years than the Brexit 'experts, who did a much better job prior to the Referendum.

It seems relatively easy for so called 'experts' to try and quantify potential losses but much harder to quantify unknown gains.
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 January 2019 12:56 PM
Subject: RE: Airbus CEO fires a warning shot over "Brexit madness"
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24070
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 12:52 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-26 12:47 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 11:51 AM
I assume you have heard of a Phyrric victory? It is what you are flirting with and, like the man from Gloucester on Paul's brilliant LBC clip, you have never provided a rational or intelligent argument in support of your case.

Which is exactly what you EU lovers will win by forcing us to remain in the EU ..........
Do you actually think we will become good little Europeans all of a sudden? .........
If the EU thought we were belligerent before.........you can times that by 17 million if you thwart Brexit .......

Thanks Dave, but I missed your answer. You haven't now moved to Gloucester, have you?


You forget I don't bother listening or watching Remoaner propaganda ..........

You lot shot your bolt when you got all of your post vote predictions WRONG ........



userTracker
Posted: 26 January 2019 12:58 PM
Subject: RE: Airbus CEO fires a warning shot over "Brexit madness"
 


50002000100050010010025
Location: Vanless in Evesham.


Perhaps if we all stop harping on about what has happened in the past and concern ourselves with what might happen in the future we might get a better debate?

History is a thing of the past!

Learn from it but don't dwell on it as it does not dictate the future.

Edited by Tracker 2019-01-26 12:59 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 January 2019 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: Airbus CEO fires a warning shot over "Brexit madness"
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24070
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Tracker - 2019-01-26 12:55 PM

The point is Brian, that nobody really knows how it will pan out as nobody has ever done this before.

I understand your reluctance to ditch what you see as future security in favour of the unknown but as I see it from a very non expert perspective the remain 'experts' have done a far better job in the last two years than the Brexit 'experts, who did a much better job prior to the Referendum.

It seems relatively easy for so called 'experts' to try and quantify potential losses but much harder to quantify unknown gains.


Actually Greenland left in 85 .......... I don't recall them clamoring to rejoin since ........



userTracker
Posted: 26 January 2019 1:05 PM
Subject: RE: Airbus CEO fires a warning shot over "Brexit madness"
 


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Location: Vanless in Evesham.


pelmetman - 2019-01-26 12:59 PM

Actually Greenland left in 85 .......... I don't recall them clamoring to rejoin since ........



I had forgotten that Dave! But you cannot compare the UK economy and geography with Greenland. For a start I doubt Greenland gets many illegal immigrants landing on it's shores!

Interesting article?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_member_state_territories_and_the_European_Union#Overseas_countries_and_territories
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 26 January 2019 2:35 PM
Subject: RE: Airbus CEO fires a warning shot over "Brexit madness"
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2019-01-26 12:53 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 12:50 PM
Speaking for myself, I'm still open to being persuaded that is what awaits us, but no Brexiter has yet come up with anything that convinces me. It is all belief, pious hope, flim-flam, smoke and mirrors, and Land of Hope and Glory thinking, to me.
I just need someone (preferably several such) of substance to set out how they see it all working, in the absence of which, I am more persuaded by those, also of substance, who have set out what we have, and how it is likely to work if we leave.

Give over Brian ..........Your just as firmly entrenched as us Brexiteers .........

That is something only I can know. So give me a rational argument in favour and, providing I'm convinced, I'll prove you wrong or explain why I'm not convinced so that you can deal with my objections. Deal?
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 January 2019 2:39 PM
Subject: RE: Airbus CEO fires a warning shot over "Brexit madness"
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24070
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 2:35 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-26 12:53 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 12:50 PM
Speaking for myself, I'm still open to being persuaded that is what awaits us, but no Brexiter has yet come up with anything that convinces me. It is all belief, pious hope, flim-flam, smoke and mirrors, and Land of Hope and Glory thinking, to me.
I just need someone (preferably several such) of substance to set out how they see it all working, in the absence of which, I am more persuaded by those, also of substance, who have set out what we have, and how it is likely to work if we leave.

Give over Brian ..........Your just as firmly entrenched as us Brexiteers .........

That is something only I can know. So give me a rational argument in favour and, providing I'm convinced, I'll prove you wrong or explain why I'm not convinced so that you can deal with my objections. Deal?


Thanks for the offer ..........But I can recognize a lost cause a mile off .........

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 26 January 2019 3:07 PM
Subject: RE: Airbus CEO fires a warning shot over "Brexit madness"
 


5000500050001000100100
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Tracker - 2019-01-26 12:55 PM

1 The point is Brian, that nobody really knows how it will pan out as nobody has ever done this before.

2 I understand your reluctance to ditch what you see as future security in favour of the unknown but as I see it from a very non expert perspective the remain 'experts' have done a far better job in the last two years than the Brexit 'experts, who did a much better job prior to the Referendum.

3 It seems relatively easy for so called 'experts' to try and quantify potential losses but much harder to quantify unknown gains.

1 Which, to me, is a very good reason not to do it.

2 Not sure they have, really. The referendum campaign was based on appeals to the emotions, and emotionality won. It seems to me that the remainers are more inclined to rationality than emotionality, but when emotion is confronted with rational arguments, peoples' heads begin to spin, so they turn to deciding on the spin of a coin - to fate, which is another irrational response.

3 Which is almost inevitable. What stands to be lost is what one presently has, so is a known. All that has to be calculated is the extent of the loss. What might be gained is speculative, and can only be estimated by extrapolating from past experience. Where past experience is absent, one has to use present experience as a guide build the "what if" scenarios. It can be done but it is inherently more risky.

So, for instance, we are advised by those with experience that trade deals take in the order of five years to negotiate. But then up pops someone with no experience of negotiating trade deals and say "nonsense, I shall be able to negotiate trade deals in only two years". Who to believe? Rationally, the person with direct experience. Emotionally, if one really wants what the trade deals promise, one will be drawn to believe the upstart, because he offers hope. Hope, of course, is the comforting emotion that masks despair; another emotion.

To compensate for the increased risks of proceeding on an untried path, one has to "game play" the possible outcomes on multiple iterations. I have yet to see anyone present a pro Brexit argument based on even a single iteration. That absence, to me, carries its own message - which is why I'm still unconvinced!
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 26 January 2019 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: Airbus CEO fires a warning shot over "Brexit madness"
 


5000500050001000100100
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2019-01-26 2:39 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 2:35 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-26 12:53 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 12:50 PM
Speaking for myself, I'm still open to being persuaded that is what awaits us, but no Brexiter has yet come up with anything that convinces me. It is all belief, pious hope, flim-flam, smoke and mirrors, and Land of Hope and Glory thinking, to me.
I just need someone (preferably several such) of substance to set out how they see it all working, in the absence of which, I am more persuaded by those, also of substance, who have set out what we have, and how it is likely to work if we leave.

Give over Brian ..........Your just as firmly entrenched as us Brexiteers .........

That is something only I can know. So give me a rational argument in favour and, providing I'm convinced, I'll prove you wrong or explain why I'm not convinced so that you can deal with my objections. Deal?

Thanks for the offer ..........But I can recognize a lost cause a mile off .........

So, you don't have an argument, which is what I've been saying all along. If there was one. I'm sure you'd know it.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 26 January 2019 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: Airbus CEO fires a warning shot over "Brexit madness"
 


5000500050001000100100
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Tracker - 2019-01-26 12:58 PM
Perhaps if we all stop harping on about what has happened in the past and concern ourselves with what might happen in the future we might get a better debate?
History is a thing of the past!
Learn from it but don't dwell on it as it does not dictate the future.

There is much present debate about compromise. However, to me, there is no logical compromise over Brexit. Brexit means that Britain leaves the EU. One is either in, or one is out. One cannot be a little bit out but in, or a little bit in but out.

Where there might be compromise, is instead to ask if people want to be better off in future than they now are. And then to ask which version of Brexit promises the greatest chance of that being true. We don't really need to forecast the future benefits of what we have now (though we could), because that is our baseline. For each version of Brexit, how far above or below our present standard of living might we be after, say 5 and 10 years? People could then decide if they thought the tangible future benefits outweighed the more intangible future losses.

We could perhaps more readily back calculate to see where we might have been had we left, say, 5 or 10 years ago, and see how that compares with the present.
userTracker
Posted: 26 January 2019 3:47 PM
Subject: RE: Airbus CEO fires a warning shot over "Brexit madness"
 


50002000100050010010025
Location: Vanless in Evesham.


Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 3:22 PM
We could perhaps more readily back calculate to see where we might have been had we left, say, 5 or 10 years ago, and see how that compares with the present.


None too well I suspect, but I don't blame the EU for our own short termist inept governments.

You might well ask look back 10 years and see how the EU has enriched our lives and that too is not a lot.

Look ahead 10 years and ask how the EU will enrich our lives with it's current attitudes and that too is not a lot.
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