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All the Remoaner whinging doesn't seem to be paying off........
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userpelmetman
Posted: 6 December 2018 8:56 AM
Subject: All the Remoaner whinging doesn't seem to be paying off........
 


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..........

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/06/remain-tory-mp-brexit-clacton-deal

“At the end of the day the consensus is: they’re scaremongering, they say we can never manage on our own. But we’re Great Britain, we managed for centuries on our own. We led the world. Why should we be afraid of going it alone now?”

I like Clacton ...........



Edited by pelmetman 2018-12-06 8:57 AM
userStuartO
Posted: 6 December 2018 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: All the Remoaner whinging doesn't seem to be paying off........
 
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I watched part of the debate in Parliament yesterday and heard one MP describing the House as predominantly Remainer, still wanting to find a way to upset the Referendum result, followed by another who espoused firm Remainer views (and wishes) even though his constituency voted to leave. He didn't anticipate his constituency changing their view but he still wasn't prepared to change the way he will vote.

The fundamental problem seems to be that there are too many MPs who won't accept that the Referendum expressed a decision of the people which is binding on them, because they think they know better and are somehow entitled to override that decision.
userderek pringle
Posted: 6 December 2018 9:49 AM
Subject: RE: All the Remoaner whinging doesn't seem to be paying off........
 
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Hi,
Over 600 MP,s cannot between them come up with a solution to the Brexit decision, the PM herself seems incapable of even negotiating an Exit Deal and we do not have a clear plan of where to go if the May Deal is rejected next week. The frontrunner at the moment seems to be leaning to a second referendum. IF we do have a second referendum then I believe the only question should be " DO YOU THINK WE NEED SO MANY MP's "
I cannot see anything useful or thoughtful or progressive coming from any quarter of this bunch.
They keep informing us that nobody is poor and apparently everybody is in a good job on sufficient wages.
A list should be published of all Parliamentary Salaries--Immoluments-- Claimable Expenses and any other Allowances such as Meals etc---cos I do not see the need for a lot of this when people are having to go to Food Banks and such. I personally believe we could manage with 1/3rd of the MP,s we have.
cheers
derek
userBarryd999
Posted: 6 December 2018 9:59 AM
Subject: RE: All the Remoaner whinging doesn't seem to be paying off........
 


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StuartO - 2018-12-06 9:17 AM

I watched part of the debate in Parliament yesterday and heard one MP describing the House as predominantly Remainer, still wanting to find a way to upset the Referendum result, followed by another who espoused firm Remainer views (and wishes) even though his constituency voted to leave. He didn't anticipate his constituency changing their view but he still wasn't prepared to change the way he will vote.

The fundamental problem seems to be that there are too many MPs who won't accept that the Referendum expressed a decision of the people which is binding on them, because they think they know better and are somehow entitled to override that decision.


Well in the case of the people in Daves article I would say they probably do know better. There seems to be a lot of people saying "Im bored, just get on with it" or "We voted out, just get us out". No good complaining if it all goes ahead and that part of the world becomes an even bigger and poorer sh1thole than it already is. Sadly the term that that Brexiteers seemed so annoyed about "They didnt know what they were voting for" could well still be the case if there is a second referendum.

Edited by Barryd999 2018-12-06 10:00 AM
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 6 December 2018 11:33 AM
Subject: RE: All the Remoaner whinging doesn't seem to be paying off........
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


StuartO - 2018-12-06 9:17 AM

I watched part of the debate in Parliament yesterday and heard one MP describing the House as predominantly Remainer, still wanting to find a way to upset the Referendum result, followed by another who espoused firm Remainer views (and wishes) even though his constituency voted to leave. He didn't anticipate his constituency changing their view but he still wasn't prepared to change the way he will vote.

The fundamental problem seems to be that there are too many MPs who won't accept that the Referendum expressed a decision of the people which is binding on them, because they think they know better and are somehow entitled to override that decision.

You're surely not arguing that British MPs are merely delegates of their constituencies, Stuart? On what basis, their constituency party, or the whole constituency? What do we get then, Government by 650 constituency referendums? Would that be better than electing an individual to exercise his best judgement in balancing the national interest with that of his constituency? No wonder people are saying our political system is "broken"!
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 6 December 2018 11:48 AM
Subject: RE: All the Remoaner whinging doesn't seem to be paying off........
 


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derek pringle - 2018-12-06 9:49 AM

Hi,
Over 600 MP,s cannot between them come up with a solution to the Brexit decision, the PM herself seems incapable of even negotiating an Exit Deal and we do not have a clear plan of where to go if the May Deal is rejected next week. The frontrunner at the moment seems to be leaning to a second referendum. IF we do have a second referendum then I believe the only question should be " DO YOU THINK WE NEED SO MANY MP's "
I cannot see anything useful or thoughtful or progressive coming from any quarter of this bunch.
They keep informing us that nobody is poor and apparently everybody is in a good job on sufficient wages.
A list should be published of all Parliamentary Salaries--Immoluments-- Claimable Expenses and any other Allowances such as Meals etc---cos I do not see the need for a lot of this when people are having to go to Food Banks and such. I personally believe we could manage with 1/3rd of the MP,s we have.
cheers
derek

The referendum sat an objective that is irreconcilable with an MP's first obligation, which is to place the national interest above all others. The national interest comes out in favour of no Brexit. So, what they are stuck with is keeping as close as possible to the national interest, while technically leaving the EU in a way that enables them to claim they have met the referendum outcome.

This requires a large amount of "magic thinking", which, under our adversarial political system, turns out not to be "magic" enough. I don't think the number of MP deliberating would have any impact on that. A dictator would, of course, have solved the problem more quickly, but would the solution be better?
userpelmetman
Posted: 6 December 2018 12:20 PM
Subject: RE: All the Remoaner whinging doesn't seem to be paying off........
 


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Brian Kirby - 2018-12-06 11:33 AM

StuartO - 2018-12-06 9:17 AM

I watched part of the debate in Parliament yesterday and heard one MP describing the House as predominantly Remainer, still wanting to find a way to upset the Referendum result, followed by another who espoused firm Remainer views (and wishes) even though his constituency voted to leave. He didn't anticipate his constituency changing their view but he still wasn't prepared to change the way he will vote.

The fundamental problem seems to be that there are too many MPs who won't accept that the Referendum expressed a decision of the people which is binding on them, because they think they know better and are somehow entitled to override that decision.

You're surely not arguing that British MPs are merely delegates of their constituencies, Stuart? On what basis, their constituency party, or the whole constituency? What do we get then, Government by 650 constituency referendums? Would that be better than electing an individual to exercise his best judgement in balancing the national interest with that of his constituency? No wonder people are saying our political system is "broken"!


So would you vote for a MP who was a Brexiteer?........No .........

Why have I voted for UKIP? ............

I voted Tory last time thinking May was up to the job ...........

I'll be voting UKIP at the next election unless they put a Brexiteer in charge ........and I'll be voting leave at any new referendum .........

So the best all you Remoaners can do is delay Brexit .........

userBulletguy
Posted: 6 December 2018 3:28 PM
Subject: RE: All the Remoaner whinging doesn't seem to be paying off........
 


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pelmetman - 2018-12-06 8:56 AM

..........

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/06/remain-tory-mp-brexit-clacton-deal

“At the end of the day the consensus is: they’re scaremongering, they say we can never manage on our own. But we’re Great Britain, we managed for centuries on our own. We led the world. Why should we be afraid of going it alone now?”

I like Clacton ...........

More hypocrisy from the Judas who flies under flags of convenience currently in Spain.

"A woman who answers the door in a leopardskin onesie says she is still a supporter of Ukip." Definitely a fanatical far right racist Brexiter.
userBarryd999
Posted: 6 December 2018 3:48 PM
Subject: RE: All the Remoaner whinging doesn't seem to be paying off........
 


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This Labour MP for Sunderland reckons Sunderland now supports a second vote. SUNDERLAND!!

Lordy indeed!

https://twitter.com/bphillipsonMP/status/1070659918498357248

userantony1969
Posted: 6 December 2018 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: All the Remoaner whinging doesn't seem to be paying off........
 


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Barryd999 - 2018-12-06 3:48 PM

This Labour MP for Sunderland reckons Sunderland now supports a second vote. SUNDERLAND!!

Lordy indeed!

https://twitter.com/bphillipsonMP/status/1070659918498357248



Oh well then best have another vote ... Labour MPs dont lie after all do they ??? Snigger
userpelmetman
Posted: 7 December 2018 9:08 AM
Subject: RE: All the Remoaner whinging doesn't seem to be paying off........
 


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Bulletguy - 2018-12-06 3:28 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-06 8:56 AM

..........

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/06/remain-tory-mp-brexit-clacton-deal

“At the end of the day the consensus is: they’re scaremongering, they say we can never manage on our own. But we’re Great Britain, we managed for centuries on our own. We led the world. Why should we be afraid of going it alone now?”

I like Clacton ...........

More hypocrisy from the Judas who flies under flags of convenience currently in Spain.

"A woman who answers the door in a leopardskin onesie says she is still a supporter of Ukip." Definitely a fanatical far right racist Brexiter.


So folk who wear leopard skin onesie are Brexiteers? ..........

Must put one on my present letter to Father Christmas ............

userderek pringle
Posted: 8 December 2018 8:45 AM
Subject: RE: All the Remoaner whinging doesn't seem to be paying off........
 
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Brian Kirby - 2018-12-06 11:48 AM

derek pringle - 2018-12-06 9:49 AM

Hi,
Over 600 MP,s cannot between them come up with a solution to the Brexit decision, the PM herself seems incapable of even negotiating an Exit Deal and we do not have a clear plan of where to go if the May Deal is rejected next week. The frontrunner at the moment seems to be leaning to a second referendum. IF we do have a second referendum then I believe the only question should be " DO YOU THINK WE NEED SO MANY MP's "
I cannot see anything useful or thoughtful or progressive coming from any quarter of this bunch.
They keep informing us that nobody is poor and apparently everybody is in a good job on sufficient wages.
A list should be published of all Parliamentary Salaries--Immoluments-- Claimable Expenses and any other Allowances such as Meals etc---cos I do not see the need for a lot of this when people are having to go to Food Banks and such. I personally believe we could manage with 1/3rd of the MP,s we have.
cheers
derek

The referendum sat an objective that is irreconcilable with an MP's first obligation, which is to place the national interest above all others. The national interest comes out in favour of no Brexit. So, what they are stuck with is keeping as close as possible to the national interest, while technically leaving the EU in a way that enables them to claim they have met the referendum outcome.

This requires a large amount of "magic thinking", which, under our adversarial political system, turns out not to be "magic" enough. I don't think the number of MP deliberating would have any impact on that. A dictator would, of course, have solved the problem more quickly, but would the solution be better?

Hi Brian,
what really annoys me is that when we have a peoples vote in the form of a general election the govt. of the day don't seem quite so determined to carry out what we voted them in for.
cheers
derek
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