Guest pelmetman Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/226071 :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Blimey it's gained another 1000 signatures since I signed it less than 30 minutes ago B-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 But you Brexiteers already started a petition for a second referendum on the 23rd of June 2016 and if I remember rightly it gained 4.5 million signatures. Have you changed your minds? I thought that wasnt allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-10-26 6:00 PM But you Brexiteers already started a petition for a second referendum on the 23rd of June 2016 and if I remember rightly it gained 4.5 million signatures. Have you changed your minds? I thought that wasnt allowed. We haven't changed our minds ;-) .........Despite all the Remoaner propaganda *-) ......... You lot are just convincing yourself we have >:-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-10-26 5:03 PM https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/226071 :D ......... That blustering self confidence you lot once had hasn't taken long to diminish. (lol)(lol)(lol)(lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 154 and counting ... Tick tock tick tock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Interesting - the rate at which the number of signatories is increasing is astonishing given how little publicity this petition has had compared to the prolonged noise the loud mouthed Neverendum Remoaners have been making for months. In the time it has taken me to write this posting over 100 more signatories added, currently at over 52000, not a lot yet 'tis true - but give it a few days! PS Now 52500 and increasing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Tracker - 2018-10-26 8:08 PM In the time it has taken me to write this posting over 100 more signatories added, currently at over 52000, not a lot yet 'tis true - but give it a few days! PS Now 52500 and increasing! Don't want to pee on your fire but you are waaaaaaaay behind with a lot of catching up to do!! (lol)(lol) https://www.change.org/p/the-prime-minister-brexit-a-second-referendum?signed=true and here is another which even includes Brexiters too....you see how thoughtful we are and don't want to see you sitting at Beachy Head. ;-) https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-give-people-a-final-say-on-brexit-deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Tracker - 2018-10-26 8:08 PM Interesting - the rate at which the number of signatories is increasing is astonishing given how little publicity this petition has had compared to the prolonged noise the loud mouthed Neverendum Remoaners have been making for months. In the time it has taken me to write this posting over 100 more signatories added, currently at over 52000, not a lot yet 'tis true - but give it a few days! PS Now 52500 and increasing! 52500 racists and bigots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-10-26 6:35 PM Barryd999 - 2018-10-26 6:00 PM But you Brexiteers already started a petition for a second referendum on the 23rd of June 2016 and if I remember rightly it gained 4.5 million signatures. Have you changed your minds? I thought that wasnt allowed. We haven't changed our minds ;-) .........Despite all the Remoaner propaganda *-) ......... You lot are just convincing yourself we have >:-) .......... You have changed your minds!! It was your lot that started the petition for the second referendum!! Now you have started another one saying there shouldn't be one. Can you not see the hypocrisy here? Vote leave wanted a second referendum when they thought they might lose but not so keen now huh? Smuggy and Redwood both agreed on the record and on camera that there should be a second referendum to qualify the first one once the deal was on the table when they were trying to push for a referendum. Talk about double standards. Your clearly all bricking it otherwise why the petition? 700000 people marching with God knows how many millions supporting them around the country got you a bit rattled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-10-26 10:08 PM Talk about double standards. Your clearly all bricking it otherwise why the petition? 700000 people marching with God knows how many millions supporting them around the country got you a bit rattled? Rattled?........Its you Remoaners that chucked your rattle out on the 23/06/2016 :D ......... Perhaps you can do me a favour and post a link to the petition on digital spy? ;-) ....... As I got banned in very short order 8-) ........ They obviously don't like Brexiteers over there >:-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-10-27 8:24 AM Barryd999 - 2018-10-26 10:08 PM Talk about double standards. Your clearly all bricking it otherwise why the petition? 700000 people marching with God knows how many millions supporting them around the country got you a bit rattled? Rattled?........Its you Remoaners that chucked your rattle out on the 23/06/2016 :D ......... Perhaps you can do me a favour and post a link to the petition on digital spy? ;-) ....... As I got banned in very short order 8-) ........ They obviously don't like Brexiteers over there >:-) ........... What petition on DS? Blimey you must have seriously thrown your toys out of the pram to get banned on there. DS was massively in favour of Brexit in 2016 and now its the other way around. Brexiteers cannot debate anymore and there are some very clued up people on there. Ive noticed this all over social media. Apart from Chatterbox of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Interestingly - 6900 people signed the NO more neverendum petition overnight and another 800 and 3500 signed the yes neverendum petitions. It seems likely to me that many of those so motivated would sign both yes petitions but as the yes ones have been going a lot longer you would expect them to have more signatories, plus I suppose the rate of signatories will probably decline as the petition ages. On that basis it looks impossibly inconclusive to judge to me at this stage, unless one is biased? How anyone can vote with any certainty on an outcome so undeceided at this stage is unknown? Are the remoaners, especially those who have allegedly changed their minds, objecting to leaving the EU or are they really objecting to their perception of the terms following the media hype and predeliction for bad news? The hurling of insults adds nothing to the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Tracker - 2018-10-27 11:54 AM Interestingly - 6900 people signed the NO more neverendum petition overnight and another 800 and 3500 signed the yes neverendum petitions. It seems likely to me that many of those so motivated would sign both yes petitions but as the yes ones have been going a lot longer you would expect them to have more signatories, plus I suppose the rate of signatories will probably decline as the petition ages. On that basis it looks impossibly inconclusive to judge to me at this stage, unless one is biased? How anyone can vote with any certainty on an outcome so undeceided at this stage is unknown? Are the remoaners, especially those who have allegedly changed their minds, objecting to leaving the EU or are they really objecting to their perception of the terms following the media hype and predeliction for bad news? The hurling of insults adds nothing to the debate. Four and a half million signed the original second referendum petition Rich, you know the one started by "Vote Leave". I think about 320000 have so far signed the Peoples Vote one but I doubt this new pro brexit one will go much further. It looks like its running out of steam already to me. Nobody seems to take any notice of these petitions anyway, I think they are just a way of driving interest to a cause. Its undeniable though that the Peoples Vote march was one of the biggest marches for decades. The only thing that will make pollys change their stance is if more and more people support the peoples vote. At some point if the polls shift much further in that direction with nowhere for Brexit to go they will have to take notice. We are not there yet though. Maybe we never will be I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 And yet it remains unclear why they are now protesting? Is it, as I suspect, all about fear for their own financial future based on the media proclamations of a doom and gloom isolationist UK, or is it a genuine desire to remain part of the huge multi national organisation known as the EU when most multi nationals are, ironically, so derided by those who purport to know? Our generation are financially watertight in as much as we have good pensions, that we worked for and paid for in the main, homes bought and paid for from another era and inheritances that are helping our kids. It strikes me that there is more to protest about with the continual mismanagement and waste of the UK economy by successive governments of both colours and that Brexit is just a bandwagon that happens to be passing and is deemed worth jumping on? Nobody knows the future, how Brexit will pan out, how the EU will perform in years to come, how the UK economy will far - in or out - in future years, so how can anyone vote logically when they don't know what they are voting for having been brainwashed by those with a vested interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Tracker - 2018-10-27 11:54 AM Interestingly - 6900 people signed the NO more neverendum petition overnight and another 800 and 3500 signed the yes neverendum petitions. It seems likely to me that many of those so motivated would sign both yes petitions but as the yes ones have been going a lot longer you would expect them to have more signatories, plus I suppose the rate of signatories will probably decline as the petition ages. On that basis it looks impossibly inconclusive to judge to me at this stage, unless one is biased? How anyone can vote with any certainty on an outcome so undeceided at this stage is unknown? Are the remoaners, especially those who have allegedly changed their minds, objecting to leaving the EU or are they really objecting to their perception of the terms following the media hype and predeliction for bad news? The hurling of insults adds nothing to the debate. There are three possible scenarios. 1 Leave on no terms (WTO only). 2 Leave on whatever terms the government can negotiate, which is increasingly looking to be leave in name only, while losing the ability to influence change from within. 3 Remain in. Option 1 is widely held to be the more damaging for the UK, both economically and politically. Option 2 can't yet be fully evaluated, but from what we do know the political and economic implications do not look good - just better than option 1. 3 Is the option we already know and, for all that it is flawed, is the option that offers the least economic and political damage for the UK, while leaving us the option to leave in future should actual events make that the best choice. We should not lose sight of the fact that during our 40 years of membership we have been able to negotiate valuable opt-outs while contributing to the shape of the EU. It is an institution that has been changing since its foundation, and the European Coal and Steel Community in 1951, and will continue to change. If we remain we can influence that change, if we leave we shall have no voice. Neither should we lose sight of those large investments that have been made in UK because we are members of the EU. Those investments will not be so attractive if we leave, especially if leave means leaving the single market and the customs union, so future investment decisions by those same organisations will be more likely to head to bordering countries with lower costs, or member countries that do not involve WTO tariffs. We have to ask whether we want investment in UK, why foreign investors might choose the UK from among any number of other investment hungry states bidding for heir capital, and we have to answer those questions with clear eyes. I agree about the insults, but they merely reflect the inability of those who throw them to formulate their own arguments. That is a major part of our problem. Many people justifiably feel left out and sidelined by a political process that has not looked after their interests. They cannot formulate their own arguments, so they have progressively lost proper political representation or consideration. IMO, Brexit is more liable to leave them even worse off than they are at present, but it is politically embarrassing for the main parties to admit this, so instead they persist with trying to implement a self-harming decision - because so many of that group willed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-10-27 1:36 PM I agree about the insults, but they merely reflect the inability of those who throw them to formulate their own arguments. That is a major part of our problem. Many people justifiably feel left out and sidelined by a political process that has not looked after their interests. They cannot formulate their own arguments, so they have progressively lost proper political representation or consideration. IMO, Brexit is more liable to leave them even worse off than they are at present, but it is politically embarrassing for the main parties to admit this, so instead they persist with trying to implement a self-harming decision - because so many of that group willed it. I am inclined to agree that leaving the EU under any conditions would probably not be good for the UK economy and jobs certainly in the short term, and from that tax revenue, and from that education, health, police and all the other services that have been eroded by inept government over many years even while we are still in the EU. But once the dust has settled and new international relationships have been forged not having to fund and subsidise a huge beaurocratic EU mechanism as well as the economies of many other less developed countries should reap it's own rewards. The billion dollar questions remain - How long will it take to regain any lost wealth assuming that we do lose wealth? How will we fare in the transition period? How competent will any UK government be in new circumstances if they can't even manage stability properly? What would have happened to the UK had we voted to stay in the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Tracker - 2018-10-27 1:12 PM And yet it remains unclear why they are now protesting? Is it, as I suspect, all about fear for their own financial future based on the media proclamations of a doom and gloom isolationist UK, or is it a genuine desire to remain part of the huge multi national organisation known as the EU when most multi nationals are, ironically, so derided by those who purport to know? Our generation are financially watertight in as much as we have good pensions, that we worked for and paid for in the main, homes bought and paid for from another era and inheritances that are helping our kids. It strikes me that there is more to protest about with the continual mismanagement and waste of the UK economy by successive governments of both colours and that Brexit is just a bandwagon that happens to be passing and is deemed worth jumping on? Nobody knows the future, how Brexit will pan out, how the EU will perform in years to come, how the UK economy will far - in or out - in future years, so how can anyone vote logically when they don't know what they are voting for having been brainwashed by those with a vested interest? I am sure my generation and younger are extremely worried about their jobs and financial situation Rich and rightly so. Its alright wealthy retired motorhomers coming on here and now telling us its not all about the money etc but they are not the ones with mortgages, mouths to feed and living month to month on a salary which may not be there for much longer if the economy tanks. They also see the opportunities being in the EU gives them. Its not just the media doom and gloom either. The vast majority of the media has been pro Brexit and is probably responsible for Brexit!! Just about every single government and independent analysis shows Brexit will make us all poorer. Ive spent three years studying it and whilst I dont profess to be an expert economist its as clear as day to me that its going to be a disaster. You say that there is more to protest about our governments failings well for many voting leave was seen as a exactly that but all its achieved is to hurt those that were already hurting even more. Simple madness. Brian is spot on I think with his closing comments. I am convinced now that most Brexiteers realise that they have been sold a pup and they have backed the wrong horse. but are simply too proud to admit it. Just look at it. Just look at what we are doing and what it is going to do to us all. Its no wonder the rest of the world thinks we are bonkers. I can see how painful it will be for some to have to back down to the "Remoaners" but really, is it worth it just to be able to say "we won"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Tracker - 2018-10-27 1:12 PM And yet it remains unclear why they are now protesting? Is it, as I suspect, all about fear for their own financial future based on the media proclamations of a doom and gloom isolationist UK, or is it a genuine desire to remain part of the huge multi national organisation known as the EU when most multi nationals are, ironically, so derided by those who purport to know? ...... so how can anyone vote logically when they don't know what they are voting for having been brainwashed by those with a vested interest? You mean people like Rees-Mogg? https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/02/08/2198570/jacob-rees-moggs-huge-personal-windfall-after-brexit/ https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/95973/jacob-rees-mogg-defends-own-firm-after-it-moved-dublin Ardent pro-Brexiter billionaire Sir Jim Radcliffe whose fleeing the UK. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jim-ratcliffe-brexit-uk-richest-man-monaco-move-tax-haven-eu-leave-a8484211.html Another pro-Brexiter Redwood; https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/13/labour-accuses-john-redwood-of-talking-britain-down Seems they 'fear for their own financial future' enough to ship money out or flee the country altogether! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 I don't feel the need to selectively quote anyone else, least of all along party lines, in the formulation of my own views. There are two aspects here. One is membership of the EU in itself with all it;s pros and cons, for better or for worse. Two is self survival interests relating to how Brexit will affect the individual. Nothing I have seen attempts to separate the two facets and I know lots of people who agree with me that the UK, as an independent and prosperous nation, should not need the EU but the EU should need the UK. The UK mainly does not want to be ruled and dictated to by the EU, preferring our own experts on inept government, but we do want the trade advantages that mutually benefits everyone on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Miss read a post ;-) ....... After 3 bottles of giggle juice ;-) ........ We all make mistakes :$ ........ I think the Twendy Wendy term is .......decompressing *-) ....... I prefer the old fashioned term of getting p*ssed B-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-10-27 5:58 PM Mis read a post ;-) ....... Unlike so many on here who mis post a read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Tracker - 2018-10-27 6:08 PM pelmetman - 2018-10-27 5:58 PM Mis read a post ;-) ....... Unlike so many on here who mis post a read? I'm just hoping I wont miss the Thetford *-) ....... Then I'll be in proper trouble again 8-) ........ Which is my trouble :-S ...... As I feel emboldened enough to stand up against the Thetford when I'm p*ssed :D ...... Dunno why she's so worried? :-S ....... At least I'm standing in a shower tray B-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Tracker - 2018-10-27 5:47 PM I don't feel the need to selectively quote anyone else, least of all along party lines, in the formulation of my own views. There are two aspects here. One is membership of the EU in itself with all it;s pros and cons, for better or for worse. Two is self survival interests relating to how Brexit will affect the individual. Nothing I have seen attempts to separate the two facets and I know lots of people who agree with me that the UK, as an independent and prosperous nation, should not need the EU but the EU should need the UK. The UK mainly does not want to be ruled and dictated to by the EU, preferring our own experts on inept government, but we do want the trade advantages that mutually benefits everyone on both sides. Having ones cake as well as eating it won't work and a better analogy often used to address this is you cannot expect the benefits of 'a club' whilst refusing to pay your membership fee. Do you shop for free at your local supermarket....walk in and take what you want off the shelves? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-10-27 6:20 PM Tracker - 2018-10-27 5:47 PM I don't feel the need to selectively quote anyone else, least of all along party lines, in the formulation of my own views. There are two aspects here. One is membership of the EU in itself with all it;s pros and cons, for better or for worse. Two is self survival interests relating to how Brexit will affect the individual. Nothing I have seen attempts to separate the two facets and I know lots of people who agree with me that the UK, as an independent and prosperous nation, should not need the EU but the EU should need the UK. The UK mainly does not want to be ruled and dictated to by the EU, preferring our own experts on inept government, but we do want the trade advantages that mutually benefits everyone on both sides. Having ones cake as well as eating it won't work and a better analogy often used to address this is you cannot expect the benefits of 'a club' whilst refusing to pay your membership fee. Do you shop for free at your local supermarket....walk in and take what you want off the shelves? :-S How about this analogy ;-) ...........We're keeping OUR CAKE........you can have some if you pay for it >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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