howie Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Seem to be everywhere these days with bus and train stations their favorite haunts. Don,t mind giving to the odd tramp or Sally Army, but to many fit and healthy "professionals" for my liking, and never sure if its just a drink or drug addiction you are helping to suport. Where do you draw the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 None down here Howie - perhaps you are associating with the wrong people again - or living in one of the bottom 20 places? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly58 Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 I can remember a few years back there was an asian lady with 2 children begging near hyde park as we walked back we saw her being picked up by an asian gent in a nearly new merc they both had smiles on their faces who says begging dont pay ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J9withdogs Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 I'm not sure if they are classed as beggars, but people selling 'The Big Issue' annoy me. If we are collecting for charity on the street ie Air Ambulance, Wings Appeal etc we are not allowed to even rattle the tin to invite passers-by to donate. 'Big Issue' sellers in our town, who invariably aren't from the locality, leap out in front of you and ask if you want to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 But at least they are trying J9 and I find a polite smile and 'no thanks' does the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J9withdogs Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 I do give them a smile and a 'no thankyou' but when you are stopped half a dozen times during your lunch-time it wears a bit thin. Surely this is harassment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Perhaps you look gullible - or are frequenting the wrong places in your quest for lunch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parke Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 I think that as we (all) have very probably worked hard to get what we have today we should ignore them. I may be 'hard' but I feel that 'charity begins at home'. I'll give my annual alotted charity budget to the Royal Britsh Legion for the 'Poppy Day' appeal and that's it folks. (Unless an annual suscription to the National Trust and the R.S.P.B. counts as addition charity contributions.) The 'great unwashed' on the streets had the same chances we have all had to make a go of life. Those that did not succeed can put up with it .Begging was an offence under the Vagrancy Act when I first joined 'The Job' and we would put them before a court to get them of the streets. However, with todays 'liberalism' I suppose that they are allowed to beg as they have " 'Uman Rites". Regards, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 But there are a lot of genuine cases out there Mike who sometimes, for whatever reason, find themselves in this sad state of affairs. These are often people who simply find themselves unable to take care of themselves or cope with the pressures that we take for granted. Many have mental health problems, and as with recent cost cutting now find themselves back in society with little supervision or support from the relevant authorities. We can all spot a genuine case if we take the time, it only takes a second, so dig deep when you see them and ignore the majority who are nothing more tha parasites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 People who sell "The Issue" are NOT begging. Selling the magazine is their job. They buy so many mags off the publishers and then they sell them on. The difference between the price they buy and the price they sell is theirs to keep. They sign a contract, with rules on selling and their conduct, before becoming a seller and cannot accept just the money, THAT would be begging. All sellers wear an ID badge identifying who they are and where they are allowed to sell..The "Big Issue" charity do checks and if they are not following the rules they will lose their badge and can't sell again. If a seller is really bothering people get their badge number and complain. They are all trying to get their lives back on track and starting out from the bottom. They have dignity and are contributing to society again, why not help them? Mike over 20% of the people living on the streets and homeless are ex forces. They have been abandoned by the official MOD and are helped by many charities, Salvation Army, Red Cross, British Legion etc. So perhaps it is unfair to judge without knowing the circumstances. I am not nieve enough to think that some are not ripping people off, or cheating the system but you can't put everyone in that boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parke Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Howie/Tomo, I see what you are saying but, are we not paying a lot of taxation (37:5%) in order for 'Social Benefits'to be made to the needy. I agree that to some people this is looked on, as what they see as 'charity' but if H.M.G. is providing it as a 'right' then it's not 'charity' and they can, with help from support agency if need be, claime what they are entitled to rather than playing on people's good nature? I do have a (bad?) habit of making sweeping statements and generalisations but I am afraid that because , of what I am aware of, I will be unable to sort the 'wheat from the chaff' and will not give to any indvidual . I do not like the social content of the 'Big Issue' so will not buy one. Although Cherry did many years ago, hence my not liking it's content! As she works at a Mental Health Trust hospital (Cherry that is) and as I have seen some of the hospital's clients (P.C. way of addressing patients!) who have been 'returned to the community' (again this does not apply to all I know) before they are possibly ready, they 'waste' their benefits on drugs, alcohol ect. and in order to survive turn to begging, which, I suggest,defeats the object of the exercise. Many years ago patients were retained in the hospitals indefinately, it way not have been 'fair' but at least it protected them from, if nothing else, themselves. I think we shall have to 'agree to disagree' on this one. Regards, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Mike I don't disagree with everything you say! There is a problem with "Care in the Community", or as I call it, "dump and save"! The people who are left to their own devices are usually the ones that fall into the drug/begging trap. It is only common sense that addicts or others dependant on medication need some form of structure in their lives. I don't mean locking them away for good like in the "olden days", but some form of guidance and routine wouldn't go amiss in my opinion. True the "Issue" does have some strange topics and does sometimes get up its' own bum! But overall it more than makes up for it. The thing is, the money you give the vendor is going to someone who is being positive about their life and trying to lift themselves up a bit. Many are going to college and this money helps them. Anyway, you don't have to read it, use it as a reason to stop and chat to someone! Vendors are usually very happy that someone is taking time to treat them as a person for a change! Afterall, us retired folk can spare the time now we are "gentlemen of private means" and not "working class" :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 The Big Issue is quite a good read - better than most magazines and certainly more that the word wooze c*ap telling us all what some minor celebrity did or how trashy their home is. The guy who sells the Big Issue locally to us is a character. And yes it is correct that this is his job and he does it well. If it helps him get back on his feet then I for one will buy it. A friend who has a mentaly ill nephew saya that from her families experience, "Care in the Community" is more like "Despair in the Community" But if we are looking at how our taxes are spent, can someone tell me how it is when we pay the same taxes that Scotland has enough surplus to provide free prescriptions for all and fully funded Long Term care for the elderly in Scotland. And am I correct in saying that Tuition Fees do not exist in Scotland? Please do not get me wrong - this is not a "Bash Scotland" post - I applaud what the have done. I just want to know why when we are, as taxpayers, one and the same, we in England and Wales do not have the same benefit? 8o| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza454 Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 "But if we are looking at how our taxes are spent, can someone tell me how it is when we pay the same taxes that Scotland has enough surplus to provide free prescriptions for all and fully funded Long Term care for the elderly in Scotland". Because quite simply a higher percentage of the National Purse, per head of population, goes to Scotland than to England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champstar Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 I think you will find that the oil revenue that has been generated over the years may have something to do with it....but as the scenery is so beautiful up here for all us motorhomers..why should you not pay extra (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) >:-) >:-) :$ :$ :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 Bazza454 - 2007-10-22 2:33 PM "But if we are looking at how our taxes are spent, can someone tell me how it is when we pay the same taxes that Scotland has enough surplus to provide free prescriptions for all and fully funded Long Term care for the elderly in Scotland". Because quite simply a higher percentage of the National Purse, per head of population, goes to Scotland than to England. Re. this "per head of population" wheeze Baz. Lets assume there,s 10 million people in Scotland and 50 million in England. That means every Scot should recieve 5 times the amount over the English just to maintain parity. Instead of griping, do the decent thing and send more money across the borders of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales if only to bring true equality to all citizens of the United Kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parke Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Whilst not technically 'begging', well, maybe a tenuous connection, I see that 'we', the English tax payers, through the generosity of our loyal elected members are going to provide all Scottish primary school children with free school meals in order that they can have a healthy diet. I have nothing against children having healthy food but why can they not provide the same service for our youngsters.! (if I were a cynic I would say that by looking after 'their own' they are assured of the parents vote next time around! But, of course, no honest well meaning politician would ever think of that!) (P.S. Can anyone think of a member of the house who is 'well meaning & honest')(On anyside) Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 It's much more sinister than that Mike. The Jocks have tried various methods but have been unable to take over England for hundreds of years so their latest ploy is to do it by stealth. First get your man in as close to the English PM as possible. Then gradually so as not to arouse suspicion, all his cronies in key posts. Then when the time comes for Mr Big to nick the hot seat without the risk of an election do it with a smoke screen of promised openness. Then make sure your countrymen have a big enough budget to be able to pay to bring on the next bunch of healthy young politicians who will be grateful for Big Gordy's help in avoiding the big 'O' (no not Roy Orbison) that they too will attempt the silent coup at Westminster. Simple really init? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champstar Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 sorry but us jocks did take over your country..our king James VI became James the first of England 8-) 8-) However we have now seen the light and now have our own parliment again that can make really usefull descisions based on whats best for the people no just whats best for the middle class..middle englanders (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parke Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Champstar, I have no problem with Scotland having a parliarment. I only object to the fact that ,in the main, if it were not for the fact that middle class England were being taxed to the limit to provide 'your' parliament with the fund to provide Scottish people with, amongst others things:- Free presciption for all from 2011 (£6:85p per item for us). Free university education. (£3,000 minimum per annum for us) Free dental & eye checks (£15:90/£18:85 for us) Free nursing care for the elderly. (we pay if have assets above £20,000 & most elderly I know have). Free bus travel for over 60's at all times(we have only free off peak) I think I have some Scottish blood from paternal grandfather family line. If I learn the words to 'Flower of Scotland' can I claim asylum and live in Pitlochry. please?!! Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 There is a yound lady in Winchester who has been selling the Big Issue for several years. I have listened to her talking with others. She is articulate, educated and quite pretty. So why does she not get a propper job? The downside is that she associates (via the Big Issue) with others who I could only describe as drop outs, hangers on, Larger can carriers and the like. So as long as she remains within the Big Issue group she is unlikely to do any better. I see it as a means of holding people down rather than helping people up. I left school with just one "O" level in general Science as I spent a lot of time in Hospital associated with Polio. Everything I have achieved since including my qualifications have come about due to the effort I have put in including night school etc. I have worked solidly for 43 years and progressed through industry having two jobs running in parallel for lots of the time to make ends meet, I still work part time now I have retired. I raise about four grand each year for charity (Leukaemia Research Fund) so believe I do my bit and most certainly pay my taxes. Why should I and the many others in a similar situation have to bail out those who just don,t bother and expect it to be handed to them on a plate? This is not my interpretation of "fair". Rant over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parke Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Clive, 'Hear! Hear!' Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertGS Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 I am extremely posh and I have my 'Big Issue' delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Mike Parke - 2007-10-21 8:15 PM I think that as we (all) have very probably worked hard to get what we have today we should ignore them. I may be 'hard' but I feel that 'charity begins at home'. I'll give my annual alotted charity budget to the Royal Britsh Legion for the 'Poppy Day' appeal and that's it folks. (Unless an annual suscription to the National Trust and the R.S.P.B. counts as addition charity contributions.) The 'great unwashed' on the streets had the same chances we have all had to make a go of life. Those that did not succeed can put up with it .Begging was an offence under the Vagrancy Act when I first joined 'The Job' and we would put them before a court to get them of the streets. However, with todays 'liberalism' I suppose that they are allowed to beg as they have " 'Uman Rites". Regards, MikeAaaah! The milk of Human kindness overfloweth. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 But Clive, No one ever promised fair and there ain't no one going to deliver fair! If they did you wouldn't have to go out and raise money to look for a cure for cancer and help those with it. Big respect to you for doing it though, 4 grand a year takes some effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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