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BoJo threatens to renege on legal obligations


John52

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BoJo tries to threaten EU

and claims UK 'would prosper mightily' as a result of walking away with no deal

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/06/five-weeks-clinch-brexit-deal-uk-move-boris-johnson-to-say

 

LSE economics professor, Thomas Sampson, said no deal could cost more than the economic shock of Covid, causing a £3.3tn decline in the value of the UK’s output.

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Barryd999 - 2020-09-07 8:32 AM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-09-07 7:18 AM

 

Not according to Barrys secret Government source ... Keep up

 

Not my source. Someone I trust who is high profile within Politics. Their source.

 

Corbyn? ;-) .........

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Barryd999 - 2020-09-07 8:32 AM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-09-07 7:18 AM

 

Not according to Barrys secret Government source ... Keep up

 

Not my source. Someone I trust who is high profile within Politics. Their source.

 

It gets better and funnier ... I need to log into Fruitcakes ... Its prolly sumat Roger posted ... "source" ... Chuckle, what a donut

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John52 - 2020-09-07 6:38 AM

 

BoJo tries to threaten EU

and claims UK 'would prosper mightily' as a result of walking away with no deal

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/06/five-weeks-clinch-brexit-deal-uk-move-boris-johnson-to-say

 

LSE economics professor, Thomas Sampson, said no deal could cost more than the economic shock of Covid, causing a £3.3tn decline in the value of the UK’s output.

 

Lining up some legislation which will undermine the certainty of a continuing open border between the Irish Republic and N Ireland (which we knoiw is very important to the Republic and to its EU partner Countries) at this stage in negotiations seems to be a sensible tactic. The EU is trying hard to hold us to ransome over fishing rights in UK waters for the French (not important to other EU countries) and to require us to conform to their wishes over State Support - or we risk no deal. But the EU don't want no deal either so increasing the risks of no deal to the EU (over the Irish border) is a timely way of showing them they could also lose out quite seriously. Hopefully this is just brinkmanship by both sides but I can still see that it is a necessary UK move at this stage so well done Boris.

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Birdbrain - 2020-09-07 10:19 AM

 

No need for "fear" as the BBC puts it ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54025314 ... All this is Hollywood Beeb guff ... Barry Fake News is spot on with his government source insider info, we are defo, defo heading for an extension ... Got to be, when has BFN ever been wrong

 

You have misread what I said. The "source" stated the government may ask for an extension. I never said we were heading for one. The EU will probably quite rightly tell them to get lost. I am just repeating what I heard. I find it hard to believe myself but knowing where it came from I will be surprised if its not true.

 

 

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StuartO - 2020-09-07 10:01 AM

 

John52 - 2020-09-07 6:38 AM

 

BoJo tries to threaten EU

and claims UK 'would prosper mightily' as a result of walking away with no deal

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/06/five-weeks-clinch-brexit-deal-uk-move-boris-johnson-to-say

 

LSE economics professor, Thomas Sampson, said no deal could cost more than the economic shock of Covid, causing a £3.3tn decline in the value of the UK’s output.

 

Lining up some legislation which will undermine the certainty of a continuing open border between the Irish Republic and N Ireland (which we knoiw is very important to the Republic and to its EU partner Countries) at this stage in negotiations seems to be a sensible tactic. The EU is trying hard to hold us to ransome over fishing rights in UK waters for the French (not important to other EU countries) and to require us to conform to their wishes over State Support - or we risk no deal. But the EU don't want no deal either so increasing the risks of no deal to the EU (over the Irish border) is a timely way of showing them they could also lose out quite seriously. Hopefully this is just brinkmanship by both sides but I can still see that it is a necessary UK move at this stage so well done Boris.

 

This is the "they need us more than we need them" tactic all over again though. That does not seem to have worked out so far too well. "Well done Boris"? Johnson is about to renege on what he sold to us as an "oven ready Brexit". An international treaty signed less than a year ago. No deal as we all should know by now will inevitably lead to a hard border in NI even on WTO rules unless you are prepared to offer zero tariffs to all nations.

 

I suspect his powerful masters have just told him to go no deal, become a rogue state that nobody will trust and to just blame the EU for being inflexible.

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StuartO - 2020-09-07 10:01 AM

well done Boris.

 

well done as in finally realising his promise to leave the EU in its entirety is inconsistent with his promise of no hard border between EU and UK

Even if this results in yet another BoJo U turn the damage has been done

Who will negotiate a deal with a liar who reneges on it at his earliest convenience?

Market consensus is in no doubt about who will come off worse.

Pound fallen against Euro.

 

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highest voted comment in FT

 

 

This displays remarkably poor judgment. First, it makes the UK an unreliable negotiating counterparty - David Davis already created this problem, as did Ian Duncan Smith by systematically announcing in 2016-18 that although the UK might agree to a treaty, i.e., the withdrawal agreement it was perfectly willing to discard those obligations and indeed saw them as non-binding whatever the agreement said. These antics by Davis, Smith and others severely undermined the UK’s is negotiating position during the withdrawal agreement talks. What is now being proposed, is no longer a “noises off” commentary by a collection of fools, but a formal act by the UK government.

 

But it gets worse - the withdrawal agreement is a treaty - ratified by Parliament and by the EU (council and Parliament) - so is the Good Friday Agreement - for which the EU and the US are guarantors. Indeed the US Democratic foreign policy establishment, and Joe Biden, the odds on favorite to be the next president of the United States played a major role in securing that agreement, the Clinton foreign policy apparatus, likely to be soon back in power at froggy bottom, see the good Friday agreement as their signal foreign policy achievement. If the UK abrogates both treaties it has been made clear on Capitol Hill that no trade agreement with the UK will likely pass Congress. A trade agreement is not in Trump’s gift, it has to be ratified by Congress. Worse yet, Trump is desperate to win the election, and the domestic policy consequences of supporting the UK in screwing the Irish are not something he’s likely to contemplate happily (if he sees it costing Irish-American vote, under the bus the UK goes) – Trump and the Republicans could well ditch the Johnson administration on this issue.

 

This is before you even consider how effective the Irish are diplomatically – the UK gotten nowhere with the EU 26 (i.e., the 28 member states minus Ireland and the UK) it wasn’t just in Brussels that UK diplomacy went nowhere it was in every EU capital - even the usually awkward Hungarians and Poles (and give the abuse Poles in the UK have experienced at the hands of nativist Brexiters, the UK isn’t popular in Warsaw.) Worse, the Irish are diplomatically “well got” in Canada, Australia and New Zealand - and generally.

 

On top of all that, it amounts to putting the perfidious back in Albion ... it utterly undermines the UK’s ability to negotiate trade agreements in a situation where it is a desperate supplicant trying to replace the hundreds of agreements it benefited from as a new EU member - in a hurry.

 

This is a desperately unwise idea to gave even flown as a kite...to do it would be catastrophic. Remember, international businesses before COVID had some luxury to wait-and-see what happened in EU/UK negotiations- COVID and the massive international recession it is driving is forcing the pace of decisions, and-a consequences of tge continuing Brexit fiasco is leading to those decisions increasingly being to quietly abandon the UK. This will make that much worse.

 

There is a sentiment in the EU that maybe no-deal is wiser - leave the UK out in the cold for a while, even a few years - and after the political tumbrils have rolled for Johnson & Co. negotiate with a sadder but wiser UK

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So if I have this right the UK signed up with its "Oven ready Brexit deal" for necessary checks and controls to take place on goods entering Northern Ireland from the rest of the United Kingdom. What the government is now saying is that there will be no new customs infrastructure in Northern Ireland full stop and also that there will be no export declaration, exit declaration, or customs and regulatory clearance for any goods as they leave the rest of the UK for Northern Ireland regardless of where those goods originate from anywhere in the world. This is contrary to our international legal obligations and the repercussions will be significant. This could end up in the Hague.

 

All part of the neoconservative disaster capitalist plan. Singapore on Thames. Wiping the UK off the trading map will suit the Brexit masters. No tax take to fund the British social state means they can get shot of the social state full stop. Hard border in Ireland means end of the GFA, that will lead to a referendum and break up of the UK, Scotland to follow. Thats the end of the United Kingdom (Tear down that flag Pelmet, its not yours anymore), end of the NHS, Welfare state, BBC and possibly the bulk of the armed forces. Brexit elite run the show, no taxes to be paid, make a fortune on betting against the pound. A final asset strip.

 

Sunlit uplands for them for sure except you plebs that voted for it would be joining them.

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What the highest voted commentator is saying is that if BoJo reneges on our commitment to the EU, he will be reneging on our commitment to the US as well. So we won't get a trade deal with them either.

And by just saying that he is prepared to renege on commitments, the damage has now been done.

Thats why the pound has fallen.

 

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Barryd999 - 2020-09-07 3:10 PM

 

So if I have this right the UK signed up with its "Oven ready Brexit deal" for necessary checks and controls to take place on goods entering Northern Ireland from the rest of the United Kingdom. What the government is now saying is that there will be no new customs infrastructure in Northern Ireland full stop and also that there will be no export declaration, exit declaration, or customs and regulatory clearance for any goods as they leave the rest of the UK for Northern Ireland regardless of where those goods originate from anywhere in the world. This is contrary to our international legal obligations and the repercussions will be significant. This could end up in the Hague.

 

All part of the neoconservative disaster capitalist plan. Singapore on Thames. Wiping the UK off the trading map will suit the Brexit masters. No tax take to fund the British social state means they can get shot of the social state full stop. Hard border in Ireland means end of the GFA, that will lead to a referendum and break up of the UK, Scotland to follow. Thats the end of the United Kingdom (Tear down that flag Pelmet, its not yours anymore), end of the NHS, Welfare state, BBC and possibly the bulk of the armed forces. Brexit elite run the show, no taxes to be paid, make a fortune on betting against the pound. A final asset strip.

 

Sunlit uplands for them for sure except you plebs that voted for it would be joining them.

 

Well if BoJo has finally realised that the deals he promised are impossible, he must think the personal political damage to himself will be less with a no-deal. The £billionaire press will present it as the deal failed due to the intransigence of the EU, and most of their readers, as you can see from this forum, are daft enough to believe it. :-S

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John52 - 2020-09-07 3:30 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-09-07 3:10 PM

 

So if I have this right the UK signed up with its "Oven ready Brexit deal" for necessary checks and controls to take place on goods entering Northern Ireland from the rest of the United Kingdom. What the government is now saying is that there will be no new customs infrastructure in Northern Ireland full stop and also that there will be no export declaration, exit declaration, or customs and regulatory clearance for any goods as they leave the rest of the UK for Northern Ireland regardless of where those goods originate from anywhere in the world. This is contrary to our international legal obligations and the repercussions will be significant. This could end up in the Hague.

 

All part of the neoconservative disaster capitalist plan. Singapore on Thames. Wiping the UK off the trading map will suit the Brexit masters. No tax take to fund the British social state means they can get shot of the social state full stop. Hard border in Ireland means end of the GFA, that will lead to a referendum and break up of the UK, Scotland to follow. Thats the end of the United Kingdom (Tear down that flag Pelmet, its not yours anymore), end of the NHS, Welfare state, BBC and possibly the bulk of the armed forces. Brexit elite run the show, no taxes to be paid, make a fortune on betting against the pound. A final asset strip.

 

Sunlit uplands for them for sure except you plebs that voted for it would be joining them.

 

Well if BoJo has finally realised that the deals he promised are impossible, he must think the personal political damage to himself will be less with a no-deal. The £billionaire press will present it as the deal failed due to the intransigence of the EU, and most of their readers, as you can see from this forum, are daft enough to believe it. :-S

 

I read back my own post just now and thought it just sounds mad, even for here but what other explanation can there be? Johnsons actions will scupper any trade deal with the EU and the USA. On paper it just looks like total Brexit suicide and the only explanation is its all part of the UK's transformation into Singapore on Thames with no state services whatsoever. That includes the Nhs of course.

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Barryd999 - 2020-09-07 4:02 PM

I read back my own post just now and thought it just sounds mad, even for here but what other explanation can there be? Johnsons actions will scupper any trade deal with the EU and the USA. On paper it just looks like total Brexit suicide and the only explanation is its all part of the UK's transformation into Singapore on Thames with no state services whatsoever. That includes the Nhs of course.

 

Apparently BoJo has done well out of lying, cheating and breaking promises so will continue doing it.

And seems to have prepared his excuse of resigning due to the effects of coronovirus, so when it all goes wrong he can pull a sickie and leave his mess to a pooper scooper to deal with as usual.

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Barryd999 - 2020-09-07 4:02 PM

the UK's transformation into Singapore on Thames with no state services whatsoever. That includes the Nhs of course.

 

or Windsor on Thames where the can pay won't pay avoid tax

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/07/can-pay-wont-pay-how-windsor-became-the-tax-dodging-capital-of-the-uk

and the Queen claims our property as her own

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/sep/07/prince-harry-pays-back-24m-for-frogmore-cottage-renovation

 

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'A no deal would be the worst outcome for consumers. It would add hundreds of millions of pounds in tariffs to the cost of the food in British supermarkets, which would lead to higher prices and disproportionally hit the poorest households,” said Andrew Opie, director of food and sustainability at the British Retail Consortium.'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/07/leaked-eu-cables-reveal-mistrust-of-uk-motives-in-brexit-talks

But, as someone else said, BoJo would set the country on fire if his hands were cold.

Its all about him, not about us

So he seems to have realised he will never get the deal he promised us, and a no deal would be less damaging for him than a bum deal.

He can't blame a bum deal on others because he would have agreed to it.

But he can blame a no deal on the EU - because the tax avoiding £billionaire newspaper owners controlling the media will do that to get us out of the EU before an wide tax treaty gets into Her Majesty's Tax Havens and makes them pay tax.

They have already brainwashed pelmet into thinking a no-deal will be good for him.

 

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John52 - 2020-09-08 5:08 AM

 

'A no deal would be the worst outcome for consumers. It would add hundreds of millions of pounds in tariffs to the cost of the food in British supermarkets, which would lead to higher prices and disproportionally hit the poorest households,” said Andrew Opie, director of food and sustainability at the British Retail Consortium.'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/07/leaked-eu-cables-reveal-mistrust-of-uk-motives-in-brexit-talks

But, as someone else said, BoJo would set the country on fire if his hands were cold.

Its all about him, not about us

So he seems to have realised he will never get the deal he promised us, and a no deal would be less damaging for him than a bum deal.

He can't blame a bum deal on others because he would have agreed to it.

But he can blame a no deal on the EU - because the tax avoiding £billionaire newspaper owners controlling the media will do that to get us out of the EU before an wide tax treaty gets into Her Majesty's Tax Havens and makes them pay tax.

They have already brainwashed pelmet into thinking a no-deal will be good for him.

 

The Guardian headline "Leaked EU cables reveal growing mistrust of UK in Brexit talks" ... No names given, no departments etc etc just a load of guff which is lets be fair typical of that rag ... Sloppy journalism lapped up lovingly by the gullible ... If you want to know anything about Brexit then Barry with his inside government source is the place to go

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Birdbrain - 2020-09-08 6:22 AM

 

John52 - 2020-09-08 5:08 AM

 

'A no deal would be the worst outcome for consumers. It would add hundreds of millions of pounds in tariffs to the cost of the food in British supermarkets, which would lead to higher prices and disproportionally hit the poorest households,” said Andrew Opie, director of food and sustainability at the British Retail Consortium.'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/07/leaked-eu-cables-reveal-mistrust-of-uk-motives-in-brexit-talks

But, as someone else said, BoJo would set the country on fire if his hands were cold.

Its all about him, not about us

So he seems to have realised he will never get the deal he promised us, and a no deal would be less damaging for him than a bum deal.

He can't blame a bum deal on others because he would have agreed to it.

But he can blame a no deal on the EU - because the tax avoiding £billionaire newspaper owners controlling the media will do that to get us out of the EU before an wide tax treaty gets into Her Majesty's Tax Havens and makes them pay tax.

They have already brainwashed pelmet into thinking a no-deal will be good for him.

 

The Guardian headline "Leaked EU cables reveal growing mistrust of UK in Brexit talks" ... No names given, no departments etc etc just a load of guff which is lets be fair typical of that rag ... Sloppy journalism lapped up lovingly by the gullible ... If you want to know anything about Brexit then Barry with his inside government source is the place to go

 

The situation we are in now is that we are still bound by EU law, and still have to make EU contributions. The only difference is that we no longer have a seat at the table, so have no say or don't even get to hear what is being decided for us in the meetings we are now shut out of - all so BoJo could pretend we have left the EU.

The Guardian is probably doing its best to find out what is going on. But with no official channels left open. And yes, 'No names given, no departments etc etc' because real journalists protects their sources. What else can they do? Where can they go to find out what is being decided for us in the meetings we are now shut out of?

- all because BoJo wanted to be able to pretend we have left the EU.

Tell us please. where can they get their information from about what is being decided for us, and communicated to all the other 27 countries but not Britain?

Time for you to change the subject and revert to your default mode of name calling, public bins etc

 

 

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John52 - 2020-09-08 11:01 AM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-09-08 6:22 AM

 

John52 - 2020-09-08 5:08 AM

 

'A no deal would be the worst outcome for consumers. It would add hundreds of millions of pounds in tariffs to the cost of the food in British supermarkets, which would lead to higher prices and disproportionally hit the poorest households,” said Andrew Opie, director of food and sustainability at the British Retail Consortium.'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/07/leaked-eu-cables-reveal-mistrust-of-uk-motives-in-brexit-talks

But, as someone else said, BoJo would set the country on fire if his hands were cold.

Its all about him, not about us

So he seems to have realised he will never get the deal he promised us, and a no deal would be less damaging for him than a bum deal.

He can't blame a bum deal on others because he would have agreed to it.

But he can blame a no deal on the EU - because the tax avoiding £billionaire newspaper owners controlling the media will do that to get us out of the EU before an wide tax treaty gets into Her Majesty's Tax Havens and makes them pay tax.

They have already brainwashed pelmet into thinking a no-deal will be good for him.

 

The Guardian headline "Leaked EU cables reveal growing mistrust of UK in Brexit talks" ... No names given, no departments etc etc just a load of guff which is lets be fair typical of that rag ... Sloppy journalism lapped up lovingly by the gullible ... If you want to know anything about Brexit then Barry with his inside government source is the place to go

 

The situation we are in now is that we are still bound by EU law, and still have to make EU contributions. The only difference is that we no longer have a seat at the table, so have no say or don't even get to hear what is being decided for us in the meetings we are now shut out of - all so BoJo could pretend we have left the EU.

The Guardian is probably doing its best to find out what is going on. But with no official channels left open. And yes, 'No names given, no departments etc etc' because real journalists protects their sources. What else can they do? Where can they go to find out what is being decided for us in the meetings we are now shut out of?

- all because BoJo wanted to be able to pretend we have left the EU.

Tell us please. where can they get their information from about what is being decided for us, and communicated to all the other 27 countries but not Britain?

Time for you to change the subject and revert to your default mode of name calling, public bins etc

 

 

Chuckle ... You bring up 'name calling" and "public bins" and blame me ... Strange fella

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