jumpstart Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Germany steps up boarder checks on everyone to limit non Eu migration. Not exactly free movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 There never was free movement for none EU citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 It's just police doing random road checks looking for illegals. Nothing unusual, German police have always been pretty proactive. https://www.dw.com/en/german-police-to-intensify-random-border-checks/a-50636002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-09-30 5:21 PM There never was free movement for none EU citizens. Well, they had free movement to get to Germany.LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-09-30 5:52 PM It's just police doing random road checks looking for illegals. Nothing unusual, German police have always been pretty proactive. https://www.dw.com/en/german-police-to-intensify-random-border-checks/a-50636002 But everyone gets stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 The term "free movement" should never have been coined. The movement of EU citizens within the EU is subject to conditions. Such conditions come with the right of enforcement on the part of any member state. As for non-EU members, it is surely right that they should be required to prove a right of entry to any EU country at a border. That requires those of us with a right of entry to any EU state to patient when we are required to prove that we have such a right when crossing any border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 jumpstart - 2019-09-30 6:31 PM Bulletguy - 2019-09-30 5:52 PM It's just police doing random road checks looking for illegals. Nothing unusual, German police have always been pretty proactive. https://www.dw.com/en/german-police-to-intensify-random-border-checks/a-50636002 But everyone gets stopped. J/start that would be a physical and logistic impossibility as Germany hasn't had any internal borders for the past 24 years. It went with Schengen. The police checks carried out now are as per that link i posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 jumpstart - 2019-09-30 6:30 PM Barryd999 - 2019-09-30 5:21 PM There never was free movement for none EU citizens. Well, they had free movement to get to Germany.LOL. Strictly, no. These are people who have entered the EU and the Schengen area illegally (mainly through Greece and Italy). They have no legal right to be in any EU state, nor in the Schengen area. They are the same group as inhabit the "jungle" and similar camps on the French Channel coast (which they should not have been able to reach), trying to get to the UK. Some may be entitled to claim asylum or refugee status, but those claims should be processed by the state in which they are apprehended, or in which they file their claim. The migrants generally want to get to the parts of Europe they see as friendliest and wealthiest, so they do not file their claims in Greece or Italy (or wherever they enter) but seek to move on. The countries through they enter seem to apply "Nelson's eye" to their presence as they do not want the task of holding, housing, and feeding the migrants. It is one of the unresolved instances of the law of unintended consequences that dogs the Schengen treaty. Those who voted for it failed to set up a properly resourced (or any!) European border force to police its external borders, instead leaving it to individual states to do this on behalf of all of Europe. Because the points at which the migrants first arrive have tended to be through the poorer states, those states find the burden excessive and, as the others are reluctant to share the liabilities, retaliate by "not seeing" them as they pass through. Schengen needs re-thinking in the light of experience, and measures introduced to deal equitably as between its members with the present, and any future, mass migrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-09-30 5:21 PM There never was free movement for none EU citizens. So how are they going to check for none EU citizens without replacing Germany's borders? >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 jumpstart - 2019-09-30 6:31 PM Bulletguy - 2019-09-30 5:52 PM It's just police doing random road checks looking for illegals. Nothing unusual, German police have always been pretty proactive. https://www.dw.com/en/german-police-to-intensify-random-border-checks/a-50636002 But everyone gets stopped. Exactly :D ............. We've just solved the backstop problem >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-10-01 9:00 AM Barryd999 - 2019-09-30 5:21 PM There never was free movement for none EU citizens. So how are they going to check for none EU citizens without replacing Germany's borders? >:-) ......... The checks on non-EU citizenry are supposed to be carried out at the Schengen border. Once in Schengen the non-EU citizen is limited in where they can go by the terms of their Schengen visa. If asked by the authorities in any Schengen country, they must present their documents. Wrong documents - sayonara! It's not difficult. The border checks are sporadic, and usually based on intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-09-30 7:52 PM The term "free movement" should never have been coined. The movement of EU citizens within the EU is subject to conditions. Such conditions come with the right of enforcement on the part of any member state. As for non-EU members, it is surely right that they should be required to prove a right of entry to any EU country at a border. That requires those of us with a right of entry to any EU state to patient when we are required to prove that we have such a right when crossing any border. But the term is used by the remain sector that it is one of the things we will lose. How quickly you seem to slip into the term state and not countries or nations which is part of the slide into accepting the loss of a national identity within the EU in a few generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 teflon2 - 2019-10-05 6:34 PM Violet1956 - 2019-09-30 7:52 PM The term "free movement" should never have been coined. The movement of EU citizens within the EU is subject to conditions. Such conditions come with the right of enforcement on the part of any member state. As for non-EU members, it is surely right that they should be required to prove a right of entry to any EU country at a border. That requires those of us with a right of entry to any EU state to patient when we are required to prove that we have such a right when crossing any border. But the term is used by the remain sector that it is one of the things we will lose. Because it's been a major part of Brexit soundbitery the past 3 plus years now....."taking back control" and all that guff which Brexiters bought into. They wanted rid of those funny foreigner folk but expected to keep their own FoM. May was spouting about ending it and only a few days ago, Patel, who along with her predecessor. Javid, FoM was the very thing which enabled their parents to make a life in UK. Ironic they of all people want to yank up the drawbridge now they are ok. A perfect example of, i'm alright Jack......sod anyone else. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/10044788/priti-patel-announces-end-of-freedom-of-movement/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-10-04 4:23 PM pelmetman - 2019-10-01 9:00 AM Barryd999 - 2019-09-30 5:21 PM There never was free movement for none EU citizens. So how are they going to check for none EU citizens without replacing Germany's borders? >:-) ......... The checks on non-EU citizenry are supposed to be carried out at the Schengen border. Once in Schengen the non-EU citizen is limited in where they can go by the terms of their Schengen visa. If asked by the authorities in any Schengen country, they must present their documents. Wrong documents - sayonara! It's not difficult. The border checks are sporadic, and usually based on intelligence. So what Schengen documents have all those asylum seekers got at the channel ports? ;-) ........ Sayonara indeed (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-10-05 10:11 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-04 4:23 PM pelmetman - 2019-10-01 9:00 AM Barryd999 - 2019-09-30 5:21 PM There never was free movement for none EU citizens. So how are they going to check for none EU citizens without replacing Germany's borders? >:-) ......... The checks on non-EU citizenry are supposed to be carried out at the Schengen border. Once in Schengen the non-EU citizen is limited in where they can go by the terms of their Schengen visa. If asked by the authorities in any Schengen country, they must present their documents. Wrong documents - sayonara! It's not difficult. The border checks are sporadic, and usually based on intelligence. So what Schengen documents have all those asylum seekers got at the channel ports? ;-) ........ Sayonara indeed (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... Generally none, but that is a problem for the French, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-10-05 10:17 PM pelmetman - 2019-10-05 10:11 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-04 4:23 PM pelmetman - 2019-10-01 9:00 AM Barryd999 - 2019-09-30 5:21 PM There never was free movement for none EU citizens. So how are they going to check for none EU citizens without replacing Germany's borders? >:-) ......... The checks on non-EU citizenry are supposed to be carried out at the Schengen border. Once in Schengen the non-EU citizen is limited in where they can go by the terms of their Schengen visa. If asked by the authorities in any Schengen country, they must present their documents. Wrong documents - sayonara! It's not difficult. The border checks are sporadic, and usually based on intelligence. So what Schengen documents have all those asylum seekers got at the channel ports? ;-) ........ Sayonara indeed (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... Generally none, but that is a problem for the French, no? It will become ours if the French rip up the Le Touquet agreement and kick us off their land! After all we haven't really "taken back control" until they do. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Talking of borders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-10-05 10:17 PM pelmetman - 2019-10-05 10:11 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-04 4:23 PM pelmetman - 2019-10-01 9:00 AM Barryd999 - 2019-09-30 5:21 PM There never was free movement for none EU citizens. So how are they going to check for none EU citizens without replacing Germany's borders? >:-) ......... The checks on non-EU citizenry are supposed to be carried out at the Schengen border. Once in Schengen the non-EU citizen is limited in where they can go by the terms of their Schengen visa. If asked by the authorities in any Schengen country, they must present their documents. Wrong documents - sayonara! It's not difficult. The border checks are sporadic, and usually based on intelligence. So what Schengen documents have all those asylum seekers got at the channel ports? ;-) ........ Sayonara indeed (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... Generally none, but that is a problem for the French, no? If the French wont kick out illegal migrants who are a drain on their economy ;-) ........... Why will they kick out tourists who are contributing to their economy? :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-10-06 12:36 AM Talking of borders So more proof that the EU has been happy to fudge other countries borders >:-) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul- Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 I don't know anyone that voted for Brexit that wanted to stop workers from moving freely, however I know plenty that wanted controlled migration to stop murderers thieves and vagabonds moving freely (both ways). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Paul- - 2019-10-06 9:44 AM I don't know anyone that voted for Brexit that wanted to stop workers from moving freely, however I know plenty that wanted controlled migration to stop murderers thieves and vagabonds moving freely (both ways). Really? I think there were plenty who wanted shot of both. They are not saying it as much now though. Back in 2016 it was all about those pesky foreigners taking our jobs, suppressing wages and putting a strain on our services. Still is for some but many have realised since the referendum that actually most Europeans do come here to work and contribute more than brits and none EU citizens to the economy. There is little evidence they suppress wages other than in some low paid low skill areas (some) and the reason our services are so sh1t is down to our government not hard working immigrants. The rhetoric about murderers, thieves and vagabonds is now being promoted as Brexiteers run out of arguments to get rid of foreigners. Trouble is once you chase away the useful hard working immigrants its the dross you will be left with. Boris doesnt give a toss about immigration by the way, in real life (not his pretend Farage act he is doing now) he is quite the liberal when it comes to letting foreigners in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Paul- - 2019-10-06 9:44 AM I don't know anyone that voted for Brexit that wanted to stop workers from moving freely, however I know plenty that wanted controlled migration to stop murderers thieves and vagabonds moving freely (both ways). Controlled migration and criminality are two totally different issues Paul. It's been raised a few times before but this article show how successive UK governments chose to ignore EU rulings on migration. It was a UK decision not to control immigration as it suited them, not an EU decision as the Daily Xenophobe drip fed over the years and still does. https://bruegel.org/2017/02/questionable-immigration-claims-in-the-brexit-white-paper/ Regards foreign criminality, if UK leaves EU without a deal we almost certainly would lose access to Europol, EAW's, and essential databases. http://securitydistillery.com/2019/01/29/the-national-security-ramifications-of-a-no-deal-brexit-database-access/ https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-security/no-deal-brexit-puts-uk-security-at-threat-senior-police-officer-idUKKCN1UX0M5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted October 6, 2019 Author Share Posted October 6, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-10-06 10:24 AM Paul- - 2019-10-06 9:44 AM I don't know anyone that voted for Brexit that wanted to stop workers from moving freely, however I know plenty that wanted controlled migration to stop murderers thieves and vagabonds moving freely (both ways). Really? I think there were plenty who wanted shot of both. They are not saying it as much now though. Back in 2016 it was all about those pesky foreigners taking our jobs, suppressing wages and putting a strain on our services. Still is for some but many have realised since the referendum that actually most Europeans do come here to work and contribute more than brits and none EU citizens to the economy. There is little evidence they suppress wages other than in some low paid low skill areas (some) and the reason our services are so sh1t is down to our government not hard working immigrants. The rhetoric about murderers, thieves and vagabonds is now being promoted as Brexiteers run out of arguments to get rid of foreigners. Trouble is once you chase away the useful hard working immigrants its the dross you will be left with. Boris doesnt give a toss about immigration by the way, in real life (not his pretend Farage act he is doing now) he is quite the liberal when it comes to letting foreigners in. Looks like you’ve fallen in your own trap. You’ve only read about plenty not wanting pesky foreigners. I think basically Paul is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 jumpstart - 2019-10-06 4:38 PM Barryd999 - 2019-10-06 10:24 AM Paul- - 2019-10-06 9:44 AM I don't know anyone that voted for Brexit that wanted to stop workers from moving freely, however I know plenty that wanted controlled migration to stop murderers thieves and vagabonds moving freely (both ways). Really? I think there were plenty who wanted shot of both. They are not saying it as much now though. Back in 2016 it was all about those pesky foreigners taking our jobs, suppressing wages and putting a strain on our services. Still is for some but many have realised since the referendum that actually most Europeans do come here to work and contribute more than brits and none EU citizens to the economy. There is little evidence they suppress wages other than in some low paid low skill areas (some) and the reason our services are so sh1t is down to our government not hard working immigrants. The rhetoric about murderers, thieves and vagabonds is now being promoted as Brexiteers run out of arguments to get rid of foreigners. Trouble is once you chase away the useful hard working immigrants its the dross you will be left with. Boris doesnt give a toss about immigration by the way, in real life (not his pretend Farage act he is doing now) he is quite the liberal when it comes to letting foreigners in. Looks like you’ve fallen in your own trap. You’ve only read about plenty not wanting pesky foreigners. I think basically Paul is right. Not at all. I Listened to hundreds of Brexiteers say exactly that ether face to face, in debates or across social media all the time. I suspect however that their opinions were formed on what they had read though not first hand experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Paul- - 2019-10-06 9:44 AM I don't know anyone that voted for Brexit that wanted to stop workers from moving freely, however I know plenty that wanted controlled migration to stop murderers thieves and vagabonds moving freely (both ways). + 1 here B-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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