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Brexit Addiction
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userHarveyHeaven
Posted: 4 February 2019 10:39 AM
Subject: Brexit Addiction
 


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I've just been reading some of the posts on here relating to the various topics on Brexit and find that Brexit hs to all intents and purposes become an ADDICTION to the believers.....it really has.

You reasonable sensible Remainers on here need to be aware of Brexit Addiction. Addicts must have their Brexit fix so they will chase every nuance that things are going well and they have a eutopia to believe in..........their behaviour cannot be influenced by any amount of logic or truth or evidence..it is utterly pointless trying to present it....it will be countered no matter how accurate. Addiction is about utter reliance in this case....on your addiction....if anyone tries to make you aware that you are an addict such attempts will be resisted vigourously and contrary agruments will be presented regardlless of how ridiculous they are. These arguments will be defended by lies, deliberate misrepresentations...fantasy or any other means by which the Addiction can be explained. So.....to expect any coherent discussion with any of the Brexiters on this forum is pie in the sky...just take a look at any of the evidence that has been presented.....they will counter it with absolute rubbish....nothing will change their addiction....so trying is a total waste of time. Eventually, of course, if Brexit happens they will blame mismagement or the EU for the fact that it is an unmitigated disaster as they will be unable to face the consequences of their behaviour and there you have it....we could, of course, just have a sensible discussion and ignore the Brexit Addicts altogether!!!
userpelmetman
Posted: 4 February 2019 12:03 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


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HarveyHeaven - 2019-02-04 10:39 AM

reasonable sensible Remainers



Oxymoron alert ..........

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 4 February 2019 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


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HarveyHeaven - 2019-02-04 10:39 AM...………....it will be countered no matter how accurate. …………….

Yes, except the above. If they would counter it, it might become understandable. But, what they actually do is dismiss it, not counter, it.

They have no argument whatever to put forward. It is an article of faith, in a world in which rationality prevails. It is to them, as angels and demons were to mediaeval peasants: the root of their hopes and fears. It is emotion, not reason. We don't need explanation, we need an exorcist!
userBarryd999
Posted: 4 February 2019 1:58 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-02-04 12:41 PM

HarveyHeaven - 2019-02-04 10:39 AM...………....it will be countered no matter how accurate. …………….

Yes, except the above. If they would counter it, it might become understandable. But, what they actually do is dismiss it, not counter, it.

They have no argument whatever to put forward. It is an article of faith, in a world in which rationality prevails. It is to them, as angels and demons were to mediaeval peasants: the root of their hopes and fears. It is emotion, not reason. We don't need explanation, we need an exorcist!


That is the case if your dealing with Brexiteers on social media who are entrenched but if your lucky enough to get to speak to some who voted leave either outside of social media or at least not on a political forum then they are prepared to listen to reason and some I have witnessed personally have been prepared to think again. The issue is reaching those people in great numbers and of course getting a second vote sanctioned. Both are possible though and we know exactly the demographic to target should we get the opportunity for another stab at it. I would say it looks unlikely but the situation is more fluid then ever so who knows?
userFast Pat
Posted: 4 February 2019 3:42 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 
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Brexit is like watching your library being burned down by people who can't read.
userBulletguy
Posted: 4 February 2019 4:00 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


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Fast Pat - 2019-02-04 3:42 PM

Brexit is like watching your library being burned down by people who can't read.

Exactly that! The central message of Brexit seemed to be "Let's leave the EU for the sake of leaving the EU". Pretty mind boggling that 17m people could vote for such empty slogans and soundbites, yet have no actual plan or vision for the UK for the future.
userpelmetman
Posted: 4 February 2019 4:36 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-02-04 4:00 PM

Fast Pat - 2019-02-04 3:42 PM

Brexit is like watching your library being burned down by people who can't read.

Exactly that! The central message of Brexit seemed to be "Let's leave the EU for the sake of leaving the EU". Pretty mind boggling that 17m people could vote for such empty slogans and soundbites, yet have no actual plan or vision for the UK for the future.


I suspect a Remoaners library would be full of wishy washy Mills & Boon .........

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 4 February 2019 4:39 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


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pelmetman - 2019-02-04 4:36 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-04 4:00 PM

Fast Pat - 2019-02-04 3:42 PM

Brexit is like watching your library being burned down by people who can't read.

Exactly that! The central message of Brexit seemed to be "Let's leave the EU for the sake of leaving the EU". Pretty mind boggling that 17m people could vote for such empty slogans and soundbites, yet have no actual plan or vision for the UK for the future.


I suspect a Remoaners library would be full of wishy washy Mills & Boon .........

A perfect example of the genre!
userpelmetman
Posted: 4 February 2019 4:42 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


Walks with the gods

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Brian Kirby - 2019-02-04 4:39 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-04 4:36 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-04 4:00 PM

Fast Pat - 2019-02-04 3:42 PM

Brexit is like watching your library being burned down by people who can't read.

Exactly that! The central message of Brexit seemed to be "Let's leave the EU for the sake of leaving the EU". Pretty mind boggling that 17m people could vote for such empty slogans and soundbites, yet have no actual plan or vision for the UK for the future.


I suspect a Remoaners library would be full of wishy washy Mills & Boon .........

A perfect example of the genre!


Yep..........a bunch of soppy EU romantics ........

userBulletguy
Posted: 4 February 2019 5:09 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


The special one

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pelmetman - 2019-02-04 4:36 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-04 4:00 PM

Fast Pat - 2019-02-04 3:42 PM

Brexit is like watching your library being burned down by people who can't read.

Exactly that! The central message of Brexit seemed to be "Let's leave the EU for the sake of leaving the EU". Pretty mind boggling that 17m people could vote for such empty slogans and soundbites, yet have no actual plan or vision for the UK for the future.


I suspect a Remoaners library would be full of wishy washy Mills & Boon .........

Fiction never appealed to me, all my books are reference and non-fiction (currently reading Oleg Gordievsky). I know your "library" must be packed full of Beano annuals and outdated copies of the Daily Xenophobe.
userBarryd999
Posted: 4 February 2019 6:45 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


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pelmetman - 2019-02-04 4:36 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-04 4:00 PM

Fast Pat - 2019-02-04 3:42 PM

Brexit is like watching your library being burned down by people who can't read.

Exactly that! The central message of Brexit seemed to be "Let's leave the EU for the sake of leaving the EU". Pretty mind boggling that 17m people could vote for such empty slogans and soundbites, yet have no actual plan or vision for the UK for the future.


I suspect a Remoaners library would be full of wishy washy Mills & Boon .........



You see there you go!! Brexiteers are stereotyping remoaners as a bunch of luvvie, chattering classes wishy washy wimps. I intend to change that image by making us more Rock n Roll and a bit yobboish. Out will go Luvvie actors like Patrick Stewart and in will go a few loud mouth oiks from Newcastle singing "Ere we go!" and that old favourite "Your gonna get your F*cking head kicked in" while waving EU flags on a stick outside of Parliament, Ive told the Peoples Vote campaign this and initially they were not that impressed but ive offered to turn up for free and knock out a few Sex Pistols and Clash numbers to get things going a bit.
userteflon2
Posted: 6 February 2019 7:45 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 
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Brian Kirby - 2019-02-04 12:41 PM

HarveyHeaven - 2019-02-04 10:39 AM...………....it will be countered no matter how accurate. …………….

Yes, except the above. If they would counter it, it might become understandable. But, what they actually do is dismiss it, not counter, it.

They have no argument whatever to put forward. It is an article of faith, in a world in which rationality prevails. It is to them, as angels and demons were to mediaeval peasants: the root of their hopes and fears. It is emotion, not reason. We don't need explanation, we need an exorcist!




Brian for a start nowhere in the referendum did it state that we owed you an explanation but even when we do you just ignore it so yet again I'll explain.
We joined a European free trade area, for simplicity it got called the common market. Over the following years it was transformed into a European central government which now wants it's own armed forces and police force at no time during the past 40+ years were the electorate given the opportunity to halt this centralisation pushing us into a quasi USSR that those who wish to remain cannot see (rose coloured spectacles ?) The French and German sector have already created Euro corps without parliamentary authority and yet no-one seems to worry how. The stated operating agenda for this Corps is the protection of EU borders and the internal security of the EU. I wonder if they are presently exercising their abilities in France on a Saturday along side the Gendarmes. When the UK electorate were given the opportunity to leave of an 85% turnout almost 52% voted leave. It seems the arrogance and ego of the leave voters cannot accept this and lies and deception are your weapons of choice.
When I write you and yours it a generality not a personal attack on you.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 6 February 2019 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


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teflon2 - 2019-02-06 7:45 PM..............................…
1 We joined a European free trade area, for simplicity it got called the common market.

2 Over the following years it was transformed into a European central government which now wants it's own armed forces and police force at no time during the past 40+ years were the electorate given the opportunity to halt this centralisation pushing us into a quasi USSR that those who wish to remain cannot see (rose coloured spectacles ?)

3 The French and German sector have already created Euro corps without parliamentary authority and yet no-one seems to worry how. The stated operating agenda for this Corps is the protection of EU borders and the internal security of the EU.

4 I wonder if they are presently exercising their abilities in France on a Saturday along side the Gendarmes.

5 When the UK electorate were given the opportunity to leave of an 85% turnout almost 52% voted leave. It seems the arrogance and ego of the leave voters cannot accept this and lies and deception are your weapons of choice.

1 EFTA was not the Common Market. We joined the EEC (European Economic Community).

2 It is not a central government, it is a legislature whose laws and regulations are contributed to, and agreed by, all its 28 members at three, separate, democratic, levels.

3 For that purpose it might make sense, but as an army it doesn't because there is no command structure.

4 You may wonder that, but wondering is not evidence that it is happening. Even if it were it could only be with the agreement of France. Putting your armed forces on someone else's territory without their agreement is still an act of war - even in the EU.

5 I accept that a majority voted to leave (I can't speak for anyone else). I think that decision is a great mistake that will inflict needless economic damage upon the UK. So, I disagree with the majority, and argue that they should be given a chance to reconsider.

What people were also told was that Brexit would be be easy. Does it seem easy to you? They were told they would regain control over their borders. Does that look likely now? They were additionally told that we could control migration. Does that look possible now?

The basis on which people voted has now been shown to be largely fictitious, and in the case of the Irish border undeliverable. So, what of the items on which people voted are they actually going to get? Brexit is turning into a unicorn. Did you really vote for a unicorn, that will make pretty well everyone in the country poorer, and not bring any of the promised benefits?

Sorry, answered in haste, so a bit rough round the edges!
user747
Posted: 6 February 2019 10:38 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


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teflon2 - 2019-02-06 7:45 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-02-04 12:41 PM

HarveyHeaven - 2019-02-04 10:39 AM...………....it will be countered no matter how accurate. …………….

Yes, except the above. If they would counter it, it might become understandable. But, what they actually do is dismiss it, not counter, it.

They have no argument whatever to put forward. It is an article of faith, in a world in which rationality prevails. It is to them, as angels and demons were to mediaeval peasants: the root of their hopes and fears. It is emotion, not reason. We don't need explanation, we need an exorcist!




Brian for a start nowhere in the referendum did it state that we owed you an explanation but even when we do you just ignore it so yet again I'll explain.
We joined a European free trade area, for simplicity it got called the common market. Over the following years it was transformed into a European central government which now wants it's own armed forces and police force at no time during the past 40+ years were the electorate given the opportunity to halt this centralisation pushing us into a quasi USSR that those who wish to remain cannot see (rose coloured spectacles ?) The French and German sector have already created Euro corps without parliamentary authority and yet no-one seems to worry how. The stated operating agenda for this Corps is the protection of EU borders and the internal security of the EU. I wonder if they are presently exercising their abilities in France on a Saturday along side the Gendarmes. When the UK electorate were given the opportunity to leave of an 85% turnout almost 52% voted leave. It seems the arrogance and ego of the leave voters cannot accept this and lies and deception are your weapons of choice.
When I write you and yours it a generality not a personal attack on you.


You are wasting your time I'm afraid. The Leavers are getting all the stick on these threads and the Remainers are not interested in the points you make. I feel much the same as you, plus I don't see the EU lasting much longer without massive reform. I firmly believe that EU Policy is putting the whole of Europe at great risk from Russia. What is certain is that the USA and Canada will not involve themselves in any conflict. They must be greatly relieved at not having to bail out Europe for a third time.
user747
Posted: 7 February 2019 2:31 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


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Seen as how 14 of the threads on page 1 of Chatterbox have been started about Brexit by a Remainer, I think you are looking in the wrong place for addicts.
userantony1969
Posted: 7 February 2019 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


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Talking of Brexit addiction ... How desperate are some folk (graphic warning !!!!) ... https://twitter.com/vnbateman/status/1093182514691276800 ... Remoaners are a strange old lot ... Rumour is thats Barry at last nights anti-Brexit rally in his porch
userteflon2
Posted: 7 February 2019 6:47 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 
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1 .It seems I was wrong about a free trade area.
From wiki. The UK joined the EEC called the common market by English speaking countries in 1957.

2. Again Wiki a government is the system of a group of people governing an organised community (EEC)

3 IEurocorps. Commanding 3 star General,(COMEC) "nd in command a major General 3 star, (DCOM)
three deputy chiefs of staff(DCOS) operations, support and enabling etc.

this is known as the command group.

This shows a command group the list continues to include all the paraphernalia a modern military need to carryout it's aims.

4 Just that one of the armored personnel carriers showed the EU star circle not the Gendarme label.
user747
Posted: 7 February 2019 7:51 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


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Wiki states the Euroforce as a Franco-German Brigade with Belgium, Spain and Luxembourg as full members. France and Germany will no doubt have the biggest standing armed forces to call on. Nothing new there then, in 1939 France had the largest armed forces and was the most modern mechanised force in Europe ....... I wonder what went wrong then?

Now to Germany. All is not well militarily speaking. (from a BBC report). Their front line aircraft have been grounded (technical problems), their Tanks also have technical problems and don't work and to cap it all, some of their new warships are confined to Port with problems.

So ..... the Germans will be pushed to fight a rearguard action to cover the French retreating to Dunkerque (or the Channel Tunnel).
userBarryd999
Posted: 8 February 2019 10:29 AM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


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antony1969 - 2019-02-07 5:26 PM

Talking of Brexit addiction ... How desperate are some folk (graphic warning !!!!) ... https://twitter.com/vnbateman/status/1093182514691276800 ... Remoaners are a strange old lot ... Rumour is thats Barry at last nights anti-Brexit rally in his porch


Jeez!! Have you been watching that in your attic with your sock?
usermalc d
Posted: 8 February 2019 11:43 AM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 
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Barryd999 - 2019-02-08 10:29 AM

antony1969 - 2019-02-07 5:26 PM

Talking of Brexit addiction ... How desperate are some folk (graphic warning !!!!) ... https://twitter.com/vnbateman/status/1093182514691276800 ... Remoaners are a strange old lot ... Rumour is thats Barry at last nights anti-Brexit rally in his porch


Jeez!! Have you been watching that in your attic with your sock?




Barry

Is your house REALLY big enough to hold a rally in your porch ?

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 8 February 2019 6:17 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 


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teflon2 - 2019-02-07 6:47 PM
1 .It seems I was wrong about a free trade area.
From wiki. The UK joined the EEC called the common market by English speaking countries in 1957.
2. Again Wiki a government is the system of a group of people governing an organised community (EEC)
3 IEurocorps. Commanding 3 star General,(COMEC) "nd in command a major General 3 star, (DCOM)
three deputy chiefs of staff(DCOS) operations, support and enabling etc.
this is known as the command group.
This shows a command group the list continues to include all the paraphernalia a modern military need to carryout it's aims.
4 Just that one of the armored personnel carriers showed the EU star circle not the Gendarme label.

1 Was merely a point for clarity, in that you referred to "a European free trade area", of which we were a founder member in 1960, following De Gaulle's rejection of our first application to join the EEC. The EEC was a free trade area when we joined it in in 1973, but it was not that free trade area (which we left when we joined the EEC). The Common Market never really existed, it is just what the EEC was called in UK to dilute public resistance to the concept of joining a "European Economic Community".
2 Agreed. I have no quarrel with the Wiki definition. But the EEC/EU doesn't fit that model. The EU is not a group of people, it is a group of countries, each of which retains its own government.
3 Again agreed. But that is a normal internal command structure without which no military organisation could function. What I meant is the ultimate command: i.e. who instructs the generals to mobilise the troops, when, and to what end. A military that requires committee agreement to mobilise is unlikely to be much defensive use. Someone has to have the power to say go. As yet, AFAIK, no-one has.
4 Didn't see that, so can't comment. Might it have been one of the vehicles France has assigned to Eurocorps, which I assume France can deploy within France as it chooses?

But if it was Italian, and uninvited, it might explain why France and Italy are presently at daggers drawn!
userteflon2
Posted: 8 February 2019 6:28 PM
Subject: RE: Brexit Addiction
 
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Brian Kirby - 2019-02-08 6:17 PM

teflon2 - 2019-02-07 6:47 PM
1 .It seems I was wrong about a free trade area.
From wiki. The UK joined the EEC called the common market by English speaking countries in 1957.
2. Again Wiki a government is the system of a group of people governing an organised community (EEC)
3 IEurocorps. Commanding 3 star General,(COMEC) "nd in command a major General 3 star, (DCOM)
three deputy chiefs of staff(DCOS) operations, support and enabling etc.
this is known as the command group.
This shows a command group the list continues to include all the paraphernalia a modern military need to carryout it's aims.
4 Just that one of the armored personnel carriers showed the EU star circle not the Gendarme label.

1 Was merely a point for clarity, in that you referred to "a European free trade area", of which we were a founder member in 1960, following De Gaulle's rejection of our first application to join the EEC. The EEC was a free trade area when we joined it in in 1973, but it was not that free trade area (which we left when we joined the EEC). The Common Market never really existed, it is just what the EEC was called in UK to dilute public resistance to the concept of joining a "European Economic Community".
2 Agreed. I have no quarrel with the Wiki definition. But the EEC/EU doesn't fit that model. The EU is not a group of people, it is a group of countries, each of which retains its own government.
3 Again agreed. But that is a normal internal command structure without which no military organisation could function. What I meant is the ultimate command: i.e. who instructs the generals to mobilise the troops, when, and to what end. A military that requires committee agreement to mobilise is unlikely to be much defensive use. Someone has to have the power to say go. As yet, AFAIK, no-one has.
4 Didn't see that, so can't comment. Might it have been one of the vehicles France has assigned to Eurocorps, which I assume France can deploy within France as it chooses?

But if it was Italian, and uninvited, it might explain why France and Italy are presently at daggers drawn!




We really must stop this, two poster's having a discussion with no rude words and both on different sides of the fence, we are going to be banned.
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