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Cost of Brexit
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userBulletguy
Posted: 1 December 2018 9:33 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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rupert123 - 2018-12-01 9:18 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-01 6:36 PM

rupert123 - 2018-12-01 4:13 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-01 1:27 PM

rupert123 - 2018-11-30 8:59 PM.....................…. The local genius on all things EU which the rest of us thick 'o' completed do not understand. ……………...

OK Henry, as you clearly think you are better informed than Barry, how about you give those of us who can't see what you can, a precis of what the present EU deal actually entails?

Might be more constructive than calling people who disagree with you pompous.

Pompous probably the wrong word Brian, arrogant would be better. It is a pointless argument anyway. I have never said I disagree just cannot abide the constant you do not understand attitude of Barry. I am no better informed than anyone else, we are all guessing anyway, no one knows what is going to happen. Yes I mistrust all the predictions, as I did two years ago and it turned out it was right to do so. I suggest we get back to this in twelve months time to see who is correct.

But, in twelve months time we shall have left (or at least that is the present intention) so, if we then find out that we have become poorer as a result, we can't row back. On that basis I don't think the discussion at all pointless. In fact, I think it vitally important. Unfortunately, some people did make disparaging comments about the degree of understanding of those who voted to leave.

Can you say, hand on heart, that you have discovered nothing over the past two years about Brexit and its consequences that you didn't already know. I know I have.

Have you tried reading those 500 odd pages of the present deal and found them easy to understand? I have, and found them almost impenetrable, and I thought I could usually make sense of this stuff. I could no more vote on that agreement, if given the choice, than fly. I assume many of our MPs will be in the same position.

So, lets just agree that many people voted for Brexit because they mistrusted the EU, which is fair enough, but did not vote for what would happen to the UK after we left, because no-one told us in tangible terms what a post Brexit UK would look like. That, I think, is what underlay those "don't understand" comments, not arrogance or pomposity.

No one told us what post Brexit UK would look like Brian because no one knows. Why would we row back, we had democratic vote, or did I miss something here.

Because this isn't an GE where when government don't deliver or we have a bad five years of office we can simply vote 'em out and get another lot in. Leaving the EU isn't a five year term and would prove extremely difficult to go back when Brexiters find life is not so rosy 'n cosy after all.

This is a two year old clip but summed the situation up perfectly even back then.....and since then it's got a lot lot worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyyOyoeqKfM
userJohn52
Posted: 1 December 2018 10:42 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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pelmetman - 2018-12-01 4:15 PM

John52 - 2018-12-01 1:11 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-01 8:00 AM

Coz all the ones I know just wanna "get the hell out of Dodge" .......(as in Dodgy EU) .......



Out of the EU and in to what
Are they really daft enough to think the Brexit politicians they are handing power to will care about them


We'll be handing over power to those WE can vote out ...........



When did we get the right to vote out our Head of State and House of Lords
userpelmetman
Posted: 2 December 2018 8:29 AM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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John52 - 2018-12-01 10:42 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-01 4:15 PM

John52 - 2018-12-01 1:11 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-01 8:00 AM

Coz all the ones I know just wanna "get the hell out of Dodge" .......(as in Dodgy EU) .......



Out of the EU and in to what
Are they really daft enough to think the Brexit politicians they are handing power to will care about them


We'll be handing over power to those WE can vote out ...........



When did we get the right to vote out our Head of State and House of Lords


Put your hobby horse away and accept you live in a democratic Royalist country .........



userJohn52
Posted: 2 December 2018 10:58 AM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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pelmetman - 2018-12-02 8:29 AM
democratic Royalist

OK Baldrick, How can you have a democratc Royalist

Edited by John52 2018-12-02 10:59 AM
userantony1969
Posted: 2 December 2018 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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Good pice by Austin Mitchell Labour man or not ... https://brexitcentral.com/dont-taken-rampant-remainers-campaign-fear/
userJohn52
Posted: 2 December 2018 11:13 AM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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antony1969 - 2018-12-02 11:07 AM

Good pice by Austin Mitchell Labour man or not ... https://brexitcentral.com/dont-taken-rampant-remainers-campaign-fear/


Really
he lost me by he time he said Remainers claimed Brexit would lead to Bubonic Plague
userpelmetman
Posted: 2 December 2018 11:47 AM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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John52 - 2018-12-02 10:58 AM

pelmetman - 2018-12-02 8:29 AM
democratic Royalist

OK Baldrick, How can you have a democratc Royalist


I said......Democratic......Royalist.......Country .......

userBarryd999
Posted: 2 December 2018 12:34 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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rupert123 - 2018-12-01 4:13 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-01 1:27 PM

rupert123 - 2018-11-30 8:59 PM.....................…. The local genius on all things EU which the rest of us thick 'o' completed do not understand. ……………...

OK Henry, as you clearly think you are better informed than Barry, how about you give those of us who can't see what you can, a precis of what the present EU deal actually entails?

Might be more constructive than calling people who disagree with you pompous.

Pompous probably the wrong word Brian, arrogant would be better. It is a pointless argument anyway. I have never said I disagree just cannot abide the constant you do not understand attitude of Barry. I am no better informed than anyone else, we are all guessing anyway, no one knows what is going to happen. Yes I mistrust all the predictions, as I did two years ago and it turned out it was right to do so. I suggest we get back to this in twelve months time to see who is correct.


Being well informed is not being Pompous or Arrogant, its just being well informed. You say you are no better informed than anyone else, well clearly your not very well informed if you think we can just dismiss the money we are due to pay the EU, walk away and also not have a border issue in Northern Ireland. I think I stated that I wasn't calling Brexiteers thick, just that many clearly do not understand Brexit properly because they just haven't kept up, probably buried their heads in the sand somewhat also.

As for your comments which really are turning into "the worlds biggest yawn" about having further referendums until you get the answer you want we only need one. We voted in a binary referendum with no clue what the outcome would be, we now know what it will look like and its awful. The public deserve a chance to sign it off or not. If they agree to Mays deal then fine, off we go. If not then the people will have made a decision based on all the facts and not simply on what was in the mystery box in 2016. That will be the end of it.



Edited by Barryd999 2018-12-02 12:34 PM
usermalc d
Posted: 2 December 2018 12:50 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 
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Barryd999 - 2018-12-02 12:34 PM


That will be the end of it.





Unless the result is very close ( again ) !

usermalc d
Posted: 2 December 2018 2:03 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 
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John52 - 2018-12-01 10:42 PM


When did we get the right to vote out our Head of State and House of Lords




You have had that right for a long time.

There is a Republican movement in the U.K. - all you/ they have to do is to democratically win the support of a majority of voters and become the government.

Then you/they will be able to scrap the monarchy and House of Lords.

If you do decide to take that path I would just ask you to have an alternative in place for afterwards as we don't want another cock-up like Brexit.


userJohn52
Posted: 2 December 2018 2:59 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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pelmetman - 2018-12-02 11:47 AM

John52 - 2018-12-02 10:58 AM

pelmetman - 2018-12-02 8:29 AM
democratic Royalist

OK Baldrick, How can you have a democratc Royalist


I said......Democratic......Royalist.......Country .......



I know what you said.
But it doesn't make any sense (as usual)
userJohn52
Posted: 2 December 2018 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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malc d - 2018-12-02 2:03 PM
all you/ they have to do is to democratically win the support of a majority of voters and become the government.

Harold Wilson did that, ,but he couldn't become the Government until she had invited him to.
She kept him out of power for days whilst Heath was trying to bribe the Liberals (Like May bribed the DUP)
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 2 December 2018 4:51 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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pelmetman - 2018-12-01 6:35 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-01 6:23 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-01 6:15 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-01 5:34 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-01 4:15 PM...……………...
We'll be handing over power to those WE can vote out ...........

I know I've asked this before, but I don't think I ever got an answer.

Which EU legislation is it you so dislike that you want to leave?


All of it ........

On what grounds? That it is all bad legislation?


On the grounds that I object being told what to do in my own country by folk I can not kick out at the ballot box ..........

Unlike you Remoaners Brian......I like living in a democracy .........

We've been there before Dave. You can directly kick out the MEPs at the ballot box. You can directly kick out your government at the ballot box (which indirectly removes them from the European Council), and as your elected representatives nominate the Commissioners, you have democratic control over them too. After that, who is left?
userpelmetman
Posted: 2 December 2018 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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Brian Kirby - 2018-12-02 4:51 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-01 6:35 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-01 6:23 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-01 6:15 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-01 5:34 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-01 4:15 PM...……………...
We'll be handing over power to those WE can vote out ...........

I know I've asked this before, but I don't think I ever got an answer.

Which EU legislation is it you so dislike that you want to leave?


All of it ........

On what grounds? That it is all bad legislation?


On the grounds that I object being told what to do in my own country by folk I can not kick out at the ballot box ..........

Unlike you Remoaners Brian......I like living in a democracy .........

We've been there before Dave. You can directly kick out the MEPs at the ballot box. You can directly kick out your government at the ballot box (which indirectly removes them from the European Council), and as your elected representatives nominate the Commissioners, you have democratic control over them too. After that, who is left?


Yeah Brian .......

I can vote to kick someone off the gravy train .......

Progress eh? ........

userpelmetman
Posted: 2 December 2018 5:00 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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John52 - 2018-12-02 3:04 PM

malc d - 2018-12-02 2:03 PM
all you/ they have to do is to democratically win the support of a majority of voters and become the government.

Harold Wilson did that, ,but he couldn't become the Government until she had invited him to.
She kept him out of power for days whilst Heath was trying to bribe the Liberals (Like May bribed the DUP)


Well he didn't win more than 50% did he? .........

userpelmetman
Posted: 2 December 2018 5:07 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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Barryd999 - 2018-12-02 12:34 PM

Being well informed is not being Pompous or Arrogant, its just being well informed.



Sucking up Remoaner propaganda is not being "well informed" ..........

The nautical term is .....Swallowing bullsh*t ........



Edited by pelmetman 2018-12-02 5:08 PM
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 2 December 2018 5:11 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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rupert123 - 2018-12-01 9:18 PM..................….
1 No one told us what post Brexit UK would look like Brian because no one knows.
2 Why would we row back, we had democratic vote, or did I miss something here.
3 The deal of Mrs May seems the only one that will work so sign it and get on with sorting out the many bits in the future; it is not a complete deal after all just a beginning.
4 We will end up with an open Irish border, which will be interesting, goods will flow via this regardless of tariffs, all the benefits with no payments. Ireland should do really well from this.

1 No-one told us what post Brexit would look like, not because no one knew, but because no-one knew what future they wanted from leaving. Surely that has become evident over the past two and a half years? That lack of strategic thinking is why we are in the bugger's muddle we are now in. This was a national government in charge, not a parish council. They can draw on resources the rest of us can only dream of, yet they signally failed totally to do so. I think that a national disgrace.

2 Self protection. Yes the vote itself was democratic, but the campaigns had no semblance of democracy.

3 It is the only compromise on offer, not the only deal that will work. All will "work", but each has consequences. It is true her deal is the least damaging of those she is prepared to contemplate, but it remains, on her own admission, more damaging than remain. The reasons for promoting her deal have more to do with seeking to deflect well warranted criticism of her party, and little to do with the national interest (which is what she was elected to promote).

4 I very much doubt that such an open Irish border could survive 10 years, even if one could be achieved to the extent that the backstop is not invoked.

Edited by Brian Kirby 2018-12-02 5:12 PM
userBarryd999
Posted: 2 December 2018 5:19 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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pelmetman - 2018-12-02 5:07 PM

Barryd999 - 2018-12-02 12:34 PM

Being well informed is not being Pompous or Arrogant, its just being well informed.



Sucking up Remoaner propaganda is not being "well informed" ..........

The nautical term is .....Swallowing bullsh*t ........



If only you could see the irony in your statement.

Some of us establish our views from a vast variety of sources and analysis not just from 20 years plus of being drip fed cack from the Daily Mail although to be fair you dont really have that resource of Brexit bullsh1t anymore. There is always the Brexpress. 87% of their readers think the deal is rubbish by the way. For once, they are right.
userpelmetman
Posted: 2 December 2018 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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Brian Kirby - 2018-12-02 5:11 PM

1 No-one told us what post Brexit would look like, not because no one knew, but because no-one knew what future they wanted from leaving. Surely that has become evident over the past two and a half years? That lack of strategic thinking is why we are in the bugger's muddle we are now in.


That "Bugger's muddle" is entirely the fault of you Remoaners being unable to accept a democratic vote Brian ........

Perhaps you Remoaners thought that if we make a pigs ear of the negotiations, then us Brexiteers would change our minds .........

As I see it.......all you've managed to achieve is a cr*p deal or a No deal ..........

Either suits me .......So long as we Leave ........

userpelmetman
Posted: 2 December 2018 5:31 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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Barryd999 - 2018-12-02 5:19 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-02 5:07 PM

Barryd999 - 2018-12-02 12:34 PM

Being well informed is not being Pompous or Arrogant, its just being well informed.



Sucking up Remoaner propaganda is not being "well informed" ..........

The nautical term is .....Swallowing bullsh*t ........



If only you could see the irony in your statement.

Some of us establish our views from a vast variety of sources and analysis not just from 20 years plus of being drip fed cack from the Daily Mail although to be fair you dont really have that resource of Brexit bullsh1t anymore. There is always the Brexpress. 87% of their readers think the deal is rubbish by the way. For once, they are right.


May I suggest you start practising a few Status Quo tunes Barry ..........

You're obviously starting to struggle with the concept anything else .........

userTracker
Posted: 2 December 2018 5:34 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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I want to break free
I want to break free
I want to break free from your lies
You're so self satisfied I don't need you
I've got to break free
God knows, God knows I want to break free
userpelmetman
Posted: 2 December 2018 5:37 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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Tracker - 2018-12-02 5:34 PM

I want to break free
I want to break free
I want to break free from your lies
You're so self satisfied I don't need you
I've got to break free
God knows, God knows I want to break free


I cant see our Remoaner Queen (Barry) singing that .......

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 2 December 2018 6:21 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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pelmetman - 2018-12-02 5:26 PM...…………….
1 That "Bugger's muddle" is entirely the fault of you Remoaners being unable to accept a democratic vote Brian ........

2 Perhaps you Remoaners thought that if we make a pigs ear of the negotiations, then us Brexiteers would change our minds .........

3 As I see it.......all you've managed to achieve is a cr*p deal or a No deal ..........

4 Either suits me .......So long as we Leave ........

1 Can't be can it? The muddle started before the referendum was held, and has continued ever since. It exists because Brexiters in general couldn't, and still can't, agree what kind of Brexit they want. That lack of clarity has reduced negotiating any kind of Brexit to a shambles. Hence the bugger's muddle.

2 Well you have, but despite that you haven't had the common sense to step back and admit that the idea isn't an idea at all, but a kaleidoscope of ideas that coalesce around leaving, but with no agreement over what a post Brexit UK should look like. In effect, you fired the starting gun before you knew what race you'd entered.

3 Brexiters managed (mismanaged?) that all on their own.

4 Yes, we know that Dave. We also know that your ideal Brexit is the most economically damaging for the UK. We also know you think everyone apart from you will bear the cost. Time will tell!
userpelmetman
Posted: 2 December 2018 6:54 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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Brian Kirby - 2018-12-02 6:21 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-02 5:26 PM...…………….
1 That "Bugger's muddle" is entirely the fault of you Remoaners being unable to accept a democratic vote Brian ........

2 Perhaps you Remoaners thought that if we make a pigs ear of the negotiations, then us Brexiteers would change our minds .........

3 As I see it.......all you've managed to achieve is a cr*p deal or a No deal ..........

4 Either suits me .......So long as we Leave ........

1 Can't be can it? The muddle started before the referendum was held, and has continued ever since. It exists because Brexiters in general couldn't, and still can't, agree what kind of Brexit they want. That lack of clarity has reduced negotiating any kind of Brexit to a shambles. Hence the bugger's muddle.

2 Well you have, but despite that you haven't had the common sense to step back and admit that the idea isn't an idea at all, but a kaleidoscope of ideas that coalesce around leaving, but with no agreement over what a post Brexit UK should look like. In effect, you fired the starting gun before you knew what race you'd entered.

3 Brexiters managed (mismanaged?) that all on their own.

4 Yes, we know that Dave. We also know that your ideal Brexit is the most economically damaging for the UK. We also know you think everyone apart from you will bear the cost. Time will tell!


1.....The vested interests sh*t stirring started way before the 24/3/2016 .........

2.....A Remoaner using common sense .........

3.....Incorrect .......

4.....No you don't.......unless you believe your own propaganda .......

Time will tell .......But at least have the decency wait 40 years ........

userantony1969
Posted: 2 December 2018 6:56 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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The biggest lie told during the referendum was of course that the Government would act on the will of the people ... The will of the people as winners was to leave the EU lock , stock and barrel ... Its a shame a no-deal scenario seems the only way to achieve what the people wanted
userBarryd999
Posted: 2 December 2018 9:01 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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antony1969 - 2018-12-02 6:56 PM

The biggest lie told during the referendum was of course that the Government would act on the will of the people ... The will of the people as winners was to leave the EU lock , stock and barrel ... Its a shame a no-deal scenario seems the only way to achieve what the people wanted


It just wasn't though and still isn't now. Back in 2016 many people were talking about us being like Norway. "Would it be so terrible if we were like Norway" is exactly what Farage said. "Nobody is threatening our place in the Single Market" (Hannan).

As I said in the other thread just now. There is no majority for either a brexit with no deal or a brexit with a crap deal. Show me any poll that shows more than 50% of the people want the kind of no deal Brexit you describe as "Lock Stock and Barrel" and ill never mention Brexit again anywhere.

userBarryd999
Posted: 2 December 2018 9:03 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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pelmetman - 2018-12-02 5:37 PM

Tracker - 2018-12-02 5:34 PM

I want to break free
I want to break free
I want to break free from your lies
You're so self satisfied I don't need you
I've got to break free
God knows, God knows I want to break free


I cant see our Remoaner Queen (Barry) singing that .......



Ive got a better one brewing.

"Britain in the Dock of Decay, Watching our money Pi$$ed away, Britain in the Dock of Decay, Wastin time"
userpelmetman
Posted: 2 December 2018 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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Barryd999 - 2018-12-02 9:03 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-02 5:37 PM

Tracker - 2018-12-02 5:34 PM

I want to break free
I want to break free
I want to break free from your lies
You're so self satisfied I don't need you
I've got to break free
God knows, God knows I want to break free


I cant see our Remoaner Queen (Barry) singing that .......



Ive got a better one brewing.

"Britain in the Dock of Decay, Watching our money Pi$$ed away, Britain in the Dock of Decay, Wastin time"


I've got an even better one ......

"Britain on the verge of Ho ray .....No longer watching our money being Pi$$ed away.......Britain on the dock of Ho ray.......No longer wasting money on EU ........

userJohn52
Posted: 3 December 2018 2:44 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 


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Its a Great Credit to the Civil Service that they have resisted political pressure to produce figures that back up the Prime Minister and Brexiteers claims. So they cannot claim Brexit will be of economic benefit to Britain. All they can do now is try to prevent us seeing the evidence and legal advice they have been given. And try to prevent us having a properly informed democratic vote on it.

Edited by John52 2018-12-03 2:45 PM
usermalc d
Posted: 3 December 2018 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: Cost of Brexit
 
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antony1969 - 2018-12-02 6:56 PM

The biggest lie told during the referendum was of course that the Government would act on the will of the people …

The will of the people as winners was to leave the EU lock , stock and barrel ...




There must have been different voting papers in different parts of the country.

Round here, stocks and barrels weren't mentioned - and neither was age or educational qualifications which were apparently included in some areas.

We just got : Leave - yes or no.

…..and we're leaving.

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