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Crewe and Nantwich By Election.


Hymer C 9.

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Had a lot of time for Gwyneth Dunnwoody and her more traditional views on what Labour represented. Nothing official yet, but it seems the Tories have won, and a timely reminder to Brown and co that spin, promises and targets are simply not good enough, and that unless they get to grips with the problems we are facing then local and by election results will be carried on to any general election.

Not exactly filled with confidence by what the opposition has to offer, but after more than a decade in power I feel the inevitable staleness and complacency we now see calls for a change of government and fresh ideas.

 

 

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Carol, apologies for going off thread but this might strike a note with some of you with the politics angle.

 

I had to attend some training last week and there were about 20 persons present, approx 16 of which were Teachers at my local secondary school. The trainer, I man I've got to know well over the years, well he was a saint. The behaviour of the Teachers was shocking, interupting, talking over the trainer to name just 2 things he'd to contend with over the next 2.5 hours.

 

At one point he had to tell one Teacher to shut up, she was that badly behaved. I met him yesterday as part of a follow up to the training and he said that they, (the Teachers), were by far the worst he had to contend with.

 

Little wonder some of the kids are like they are.

 

Don't all shout at once.. :D :D

 

Martyn

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There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I was better off under the Tories.

 

The old theory used to be that if you were a nett contributor to the treasury then Conservatism was probably better for you, but if you were a nett beneficiary from the treasury then Labour was probably better for you.

 

But not any more - under new Labour we are all equal - we are all worse off - unless we are an MP of course!

 

The motto of new Labour might well be - 'All brothers are equal except for some brothers who are more equal than other brothers'.

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I was not around yesterday to log on, but I thought the Conservatives would win the seat but was surprised by the size of the win.

 

What I don't like is how for the past 4 years the electroric, have been treated with dismissal as if we have no opinions, now all of a sudden we are going to be listened to, but it is said like a mantra, and gives me little confidence.

 

I think no we have had no firm promises yet from the Conservatives, but when they do put things forward quite often Labour have adopted them as there own, with a bit of spin on them. Also how can any one say for definite this is what we will do, when it is probably 2 years in the future, they just have to give us the confidence that they can carry it out.

One thing I have never liked is the bully boy tactics used by the likes of John Prescot and John Ried.

 

Another thing that will have to be worked into the figures is the huge cost of the Olympics which will be looming larger and even more expensive by the next elections so much has to be taken into consideration I think the Conservatives are been honest by saying there manifesto will be published nearer a election, than making promises that can't be kept. Carol.

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Carol, I don't think it's anything to do with honesty, more good political sense. If you don't promise anything or make any real commitments then your opponents can't cost things or make their version more rosy. It worked for Tony Blair when they beat John Major, for Boris Johnson last month and it will probably work again, but this time for David Cameron in 2 years time.

 

They Tories must be praying the economy doesn't pick up and oil gets dearer then they don't have to say a word everyone will be begging them to move into no. 10. But if it does and everyone is reasonably happy with how their financial circumstances are then they will have to produce something to tempt everyone with.

 

The only truth is though that they all look after themselves first whichever party is in power.

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Yes Tomo, sadly that is true who ever is in power, keeping them selves there seems to be their main objective.

 

The things that puzzles me are:

 

How Youngsters can no do exactly what they want and no one is able to say anything of defend themselves.

 

Why can Fire Crews not defend themselves when stones are thrown at them when on call (why can't they point the water hoses at them that would soon stop it)

 

How come our post always used to come in the mornings no trouble.

 

Why is it necessary to close our Post Offices that have worked well for so many years.

 

There are so many things that have been made so complicated, they just don't seem to work anymore. Carol.

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Tracker - 2008-05-23 4:56 PM

 

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I was better off under the Tories.

 

The old theory used to be that if you were a nett contributor to the treasury then Conservatism was probably better for you, but if you were a nett beneficiary from the treasury then Labour was probably better for you.

 

But not any more - under new Labour we are all equal - we are all worse off - unless we are an MP of course!

 

The motto of new Labour might well be - 'All brothers are equal except for some brothers who are more equal than other brothers'.

 

Well that is maybe if you are shallow kind of person :-S but my memory is of the hardship OTHER people had paying poll tax even one I cut out of the paper of a person killing themselves and others going to jail that have been law abiding citizens all their lives, The Im alright Jack of the person living in a Mansion paying the same as a person in a council house! the 3 million unemployed! the people working hard and living on the breadline! the coal miners that lost their livelyhood. Im ALRIGHT JACK to hell with everyone else Well I dont forget where I came from my father worked hard in a Chemical factory all his life and was never unemployed.

 

Where does the money come from for better Education which it is! better Health Care which it is! despite the number of people that have come into the country and need medical care!! I remember the Tory Chancellor predicting when he was in that fuel prices where going to rise to £5 a gallon! I remember my Inlaws pensioners getting the £10 winter fuel payment which we get now (remind me) what it it now?

 

 

Cameron hasnt got one good idea of his own except to knock everything Labour does! come one tell me WHAT are his policies??

 

The biggest mistake Labour have done and are paying dearly for is going to war with Iraq.

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Interesting point about the poll tax. In my view it is high time EVERYONE with an income paid something for local services and not just the householder.

 

For every impoverished family who genuinely could not afford to pay there was, if memory serves, tax relief available.

 

There are just as many if not more homes with two, three, four and five incomes coming in - and still just one council tax. Is that fair on the rest of us?

 

The problem was that the net gainers amongst us did not make as much noise as the net losers and, just as turkeys would not vote for Christmas, the not payers made so much noise the government bottled out.

 

Never mind we ALL do still enjoy the benefit of paying the extra 2.5% on VAT that resulted from the poll tax failure - so maybe we did all end up paying after all?

 

 

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Tracker - 2008-05-25 7:50 PM

 

Interesting point about the poll tax. In my view it is high time EVERYONE with an income paid something for local services and not just the householder.

 

For every impoverished family who genuinely could not afford to pay there was, if memory serves, tax relief available.

 

There are just as many if not more homes with two, three, four and five incomes coming in - and still just one council tax. Is that fair on the rest of us?

 

The problem was that the net gainers amongst us did not make as much noise as the net losers and, just as turkeys would not vote for Christmas, the not payers made so much noise the government bottled out.

 

Never mind we ALL do still enjoy the benefit of paying the extra 2.5% on VAT that resulted from the poll tax failure - so maybe we did all end up paying after all?

 

 

And if there are 5 wages coming in there is 5 people paying income tax and did you have to pay Rates when you were a teenager?? No I thought not :-S and the wages that young people were getting it was a struggle by the time they had paid travelling expenses and everything else that they needed ! what happened is that their parents ended up paying in some cases 4 times what they were paying before just because the rich begrudged paying their wack.

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we had a working teenage daughter living at home with us during the 'poll tax' period. I made her pay her own tax as it was her responsiblity to do so and not mine. I did not take any money from her whilst rates were in force as that, a the householder, was MY responsibilty. I accept I am in a minority but, in my opinion, poll tax was the fairer systems of rasing local tax as EVERY pays the same. I have no problem with 'the wealthy' paying the same as 'the less well off' because we all had the same chace to try to better our lot and if we did, fine, and if we did not we only have ourselves, generally, to blame. Do not all castigate me at once, and before you do please remember that just because you disagree with my point it does not make it wrong, neither is your point wrong if it disagrees with me!!
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Mike Parke - 2008-05-25 9:37 PM

 

we had a working teenage daughter living at home with us during the 'poll tax' period. I made her pay her own tax as it was her responsiblity to do so and not mine. I did not take any money from her whilst rates were in force as that, a the householder, was MY responsibilty. I accept I am in a minority but, in my opinion, poll tax was the fairer systems of rasing local tax as EVERY pays the same. I have no problem with 'the wealthy' paying the same as 'the less well off' because we all had the same chace to try to better our lot and if we did, fine, and if we did not we only have ourselves, generally, to blame. Do not all castigate me at once, and before you do please remember that just because you disagree with my point it does not make it wrong, neither is your point wrong if it disagrees with me!!

 

 

Mike

When you say " we all had the same chance to better our lot" are you suggesting that everyone starts off more or less equal ?

 

 

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No, (unfortunately) not everyone. What I am saying is that through hard work, a commitment to achieve , a desire to progress , a bit of luck and a bit of 'backstabbing' one does not have to stay at one's birth level. My mother does not really like me, and has not done for years, because, as she puts it, 'you forgot where you came from'. O.K, so I may be an arrogant s.o.b. but at least I feel I have made something from 'low' beginnings.. We were parked up on a site in Prague recently when a Scots chappie pitched next to us. He was most surprised to hear we were from Norfolk as, he said, 'you certainly do not speaklike a Norfolk Dumpling'.

Whilst Norfolk bred I have worked hard to lose any trace of 'local' accent thereby erasing the (stereotyped?) 'bumking' imagine and all that (sometimes) entales. I am not criticising anyone who is what they are as that is, I suggest, what they wish to be, but I think we should all take the chances to 'better' our lot should the opportunity arrive. Stand by for 'flak' in response!!!

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Poll Tax/Comunitity Charge/Rates, now you've got onto my pet hate.

When Poll Tax came in it made litle differance to me but the Comunity Charge is something else, when it first came in of six households of my extended familily we paid by far the most, not because we earnt any more or had a bigger house but because it is the prettyest, that is ridiculas, in fact I was paying just a couple of hundred a year less than chap down the road who lives in a massive country house and was in top 100 rich list.

 

 

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Mike Parke - 2008-05-25 11:25 PM

 

No, (unfortunately) not everyone. What I am saying is that through hard work, a commitment to achieve , a desire to progress , a bit of luck and a bit of 'backstabbing' one does not have to stay at one's birth level. My mother does not really like me, and has not done for years, because, as she puts it, 'you forgot where you came from'. O.K, so I may be an arrogant s.o.b. but at least I feel I have made something from 'low' beginnings.. We were parked up on a site in Prague recently when a Scots chappie pitched next to us. He was most surprised to hear we were from Norfolk as, he said, 'you certainly do not speaklike a Norfolk Dumpling'.

Whilst Norfolk bred I have worked hard to lose any trace of 'local' accent thereby erasing the (stereotyped?) 'bumking' imagine and all that (sometimes) entales. I am not criticising anyone who is what they are as that is, I suggest, what they wish to be, but I think we should all take the chances to 'better' our lot should the opportunity arrive. Stand by for 'flak' in response!!!

No flak Mike and agree there,s nothing wrong in trying to better yourself, but just a small issue over 'losing your accent'. Always taught to be proud of my accent and origins, but it was also drummed into me that this was no excuse for bad pronunciation, dropping your aitches or that lazy way of rolling half a dozen words into one etc. Learning how to speak correctly while still retaining that accent should be more than acceptable, and for those who think otherwise, then thats their loss.

(Flak) Ungrateful wretch. Fancy saying your Mother does,nt love you. Get on that phone now and tell her how much you love her and appreciate all those sacrifices she made on your behalf that we all take for granted before, like many others, its to late.

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(Flak) Ungrateful wretch. Fancy saying your Mother does,nt love you. Get on that phone now and tell her how much you love her and appreciate all those sacrifices she made on your behalf that we all take for granted before, like many others, its to late.

-----

That to me is the most revealing piece *-) I dont care if your a multi millionaire not respecting ones Parents YOU ARE NOTHING. :-S

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