Guest pelmetman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 As soon as I saw that 150k had sadly died with a positive COVID test in the past 28 days :-| ........ I knew one of the Chimps would be the first to blame it on Boris *-) .......... CurtainTWITcher won with his "World beating" thread ;-) ......... BUT AS THE FACTS SHOW.....the majority of those "Actually" dying from COVID now are unvaccinated :-| ....... So how the hell can the forums Corbynites blame Boris for the victims stupidty in believing the lies of their fellow LEFTY LIAR...........Piers (Sh1t For Brains) Corbyn??? 8-).......... Have the forums Chimp ever said one word condeming the actions of their fellow NASTY LEFTY......NOPE *-) ....... Worra bunch of two faced Hypocrites....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 more mad ramblings. We are now the 7th country in the world with over 150000 deaths but look who the other contenders are. US, Brazil, India, Russia, Mexico and Peru. Now it seems you want to blame it on Jeremy Corbyns nutty brother. WTF! If you want someone to blame for why we, an island nation that had plenty of warning of what was coming faired so badly then look no further than Boris Johnson and his corrupt government not some mad old bloke shouting in the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 10:34 AM more mad ramblings. We are now the 7th country in the world with over 150000 deaths but look who the other contenders are. US, Brazil, India, Russia, Mexico and Peru. Now it seems you want to blame it on Jeremy Corbyns nutty brother. WTF! If you want someone to blame for why we, an island nation that had plenty of warning of what was coming faired so badly then look no further than Boris Johnson and his corrupt government not some mad old bloke shouting in the street. NOW??? :-S ........... We have been the 7th highest country for more than a year *-) ......... Although I suspect we are really much lower than that as many countries are not using the same counting methods as us :-| .......... I note that you also are not saying a bad word about Piers (Sh1t For Brains) Corbyn apart from calling him Nutty (?) ........ Why is that Barry? 8-) ......... Is it because antivaxxers causing more deaths, provides you Boris bashers with ammunition to turn into Fake News (?) ........... Just to add...... Total deaths is a irrelivant number as its "death rates" that is the figure most sensible people are using to compare a countries perfromance in combating COVID........The UK is currently 30th in the world.....and 20th in Europe.......and it looks likely that we will drop even further down that score board :-| .......... But of course those inconvenient facts dont suit your Pathetic Boris bashing agenda do they? *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 pelmetman - 2022-01-09 12:24 PM many countries are not using the same counting methods as us :-| .......... ...... We are still waiting for you to explain the differences *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 John52 - 2022-01-09 12:32 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 12:24 PM many countries are not using the same counting methods as us :-| .......... ...... We are still waiting for you to explain the differences *-) Do you believe only 4,636 have died of COVID in China? 8-) ........ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ Scrub that........You probably do *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 Surely, the important figure is the total number of annual deaths in the UK in the years since Covid, compared with say the previous 5 years annual figures before Covid. Very interesting just go and check. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 Gremlin - 2022-01-09 1:02 PM The 150,000 milestone is very sad. But given our population density and ignorance of what we were dealing with such an “milestone” is inevitable. We are all on a journey - and yes, when you don’t know what you are dealing with then wrong decisions will be made whoever is in charge. Governments of all colours make lousy decisions. Look at the furore over Blair’s “gong” and the resulting fallout. But blaming all and sundry simply because an obvious milestone happens is like car passengers on a long journey going nuts when the trip meter hits 150 miles. But we did know what we were dealing with. We saw it coming, Italy and the world health organisation were screaming at Boris Johnson to do something but he just muttered stuff about taking it on the chin and bragged about shaking hands in hospitals full of Covid victims. Not only that but as I keep pointing out we are an island nation! We had every opportunity to prevent this unforgivable loss of life but we lost it because of the abject failure of one man and his cronies. As if that wasnt bad enough, time and time again dither, delay and denial cost tens of thousands of lives. We are on a journey? Others would have made wrong decisions whoever was in charge? OMG What utter tosh. I Cant think of a single politician living or dead that could have done a worse job than Johnson. Can you imagine where we would be now if the vaccine producers and the NHS (that the Tories have tried to run into the ground) had not come to the rescue? What I simply cant get my head around is how people (and thankfully they are few and far between now) can still defend them. Your population density guff is just that, for the birds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 Gremlin - 2022-01-09 2:49 PM Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 2:22 PM Gremlin - 2022-01-09 1:02 PM The 150,000 milestone is very sad. But given our population density and ignorance of what we were dealing with such an “milestone” is inevitable. We are all on a journey - and yes, when you don’t know what you are dealing with then wrong decisions will be made whoever is in charge. Governments of all colours make lousy decisions. Look at the furore over Blair’s “gong” and the resulting fallout. But blaming all and sundry simply because an obvious milestone happens is like car passengers on a long journey going nuts when the trip meter hits 150 miles. But we did know what we were dealing with. We saw it coming, Italy and the world health organisation were screaming at Boris Johnson to do something but he just muttered stuff about taking it on the chin and bragged about shaking hands in hospitals full of Covid victims. Not only that but as I keep pointing out we are an island nation! We had every opportunity to prevent this unforgivable loss of life but we lost it because of the abject failure of one man and his cronies. As if that wasnt bad enough, time and time again dither, delay and denial cost tens of thousands of lives. We are on a journey? Others would have made wrong decisions whoever was in charge? OMG What utter tosh. I Cant think of a single politician living or dead that could have done a worse job than Johnson. Can you imagine where we would be now if the vaccine producers and the NHS (that the Tories have tried to run into the ground) had not come to the rescue? What I simply cant get my head around is how people (and thankfully they are few and far between now) can still defend them. Your population density guff is just that, for the birds. But - and I am no fan of BJ - Boris did write, effectively, an open cheque to Universities and Pharmaceutical companies which as a strategy worked far better than the EU strategy of stringing out negotiations trying to get the price down. In contrast, what we did in the U.K. was to secure advance purchase from Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZenica and Janssen (Johnson & Johnson). The AstraZenica contract was notable because all parties agreed that the vaccine would be supplied at cost. As for your suggestion we knew what it was - is just nonsense. This virus was/is a new entity. If it wasn’t we would already have had effective vaccines sitting on the shelf. Yes mistakes were made. But are you suggesting that as other countries such as Poland or Belgium who have higher death rates per million of population had worse governments than ours? Actually I seem to remember the US put way more money into AZ than we did. We got lucky with the contracts also. Despite what you say the EU actually signed theirs with AZ the day before we did but the reason we got ours first was down in the end to the difference between Belgian and UK contract law. We either got lucky or someone in the civil service knew their onions. What I was inferring about us "knowing" about the virus is we saw what was happening across the globe and particularly in Europe but did nothing. We didn't have vaccines of course and back then we thought they could potentially be years away which actually makes the fact that Johnson did nothing even worse. No I am not suggesting Poland or Belgium had worse governments than ours, I don't believe that's possible. What I am saying is we are an island nation and we had a crucial advantage in that and the fact that we were behind the rest of Europe and saw what was happening yet Johnson threw that away. Remember for more than one occasion because of that we had the worst death rate in the world. Yes others have caught up but that does not excuse what happened here. Just look at the stats for other similar Island nations. Deaths per million UK 2184 (170000+ deaths in total) Indonesia 531 Philippines 465 Japan 145 Iceland 110 (only 36 deaths in total) Australia 83 Madagascar 36 New Zealand 9 (only 51 deaths in total) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 3:09 PM Gremlin - 2022-01-09 2:49 PM Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 2:22 PM Gremlin - 2022-01-09 1:02 PM The 150,000 milestone is very sad. But given our population density and ignorance of what we were dealing with such an “milestone” is inevitable. We are all on a journey - and yes, when you don’t know what you are dealing with then wrong decisions will be made whoever is in charge. Governments of all colours make lousy decisions. Look at the furore over Blair’s “gong” and the resulting fallout. But blaming all and sundry simply because an obvious milestone happens is like car passengers on a long journey going nuts when the trip meter hits 150 miles. But we did know what we were dealing with. We saw it coming, Italy and the world health organisation were screaming at Boris Johnson to do something but he just muttered stuff about taking it on the chin and bragged about shaking hands in hospitals full of Covid victims. Not only that but as I keep pointing out we are an island nation! We had every opportunity to prevent this unforgivable loss of life but we lost it because of the abject failure of one man and his cronies. As if that wasnt bad enough, time and time again dither, delay and denial cost tens of thousands of lives. We are on a journey? Others would have made wrong decisions whoever was in charge? OMG What utter tosh. I Cant think of a single politician living or dead that could have done a worse job than Johnson. Can you imagine where we would be now if the vaccine producers and the NHS (that the Tories have tried to run into the ground) had not come to the rescue? What I simply cant get my head around is how people (and thankfully they are few and far between now) can still defend them. Your population density guff is just that, for the birds. But - and I am no fan of BJ - Boris did write, effectively, an open cheque to Universities and Pharmaceutical companies which as a strategy worked far better than the EU strategy of stringing out negotiations trying to get the price down. In contrast, what we did in the U.K. was to secure advance purchase from Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZenica and Janssen (Johnson & Johnson). The AstraZenica contract was notable because all parties agreed that the vaccine would be supplied at cost. As for your suggestion we knew what it was - is just nonsense. This virus was/is a new entity. If it wasn’t we would already have had effective vaccines sitting on the shelf. Yes mistakes were made. But are you suggesting that as other countries such as Poland or Belgium who have higher death rates per million of population had worse governments than ours? Actually I seem to remember the US put way more money into AZ than we did. We got lucky with the contracts also. Despite what you say the EU actually signed theirs with AZ the day before we did but the reason we got ours first was down in the end to the difference between Belgian and UK contract law. We either got lucky or someone in the civil service knew their onions. What I was inferring about us "knowing" about the virus is we saw what was happening across the globe and particularly in Europe but did nothing. We didn't have vaccines of course and back then we thought they could potentially be years away which actually makes the fact that Johnson did nothing even worse. No I am not suggesting Poland or Belgium had worse governments than ours, I don't believe that's possible. What I am saying is we are an island nation and we had a crucial advantage in that and the fact that we were behind the rest of Europe and saw what was happening yet Johnson threw that away. Remember for more than one occasion because of that we had the worst death rate in the world. Yes others have caught up but that does not excuse what happened here. Just look at the stats for other similar Island nations. Deaths per million UK 2184 (170000+ deaths in total) Indonesia 531 Philippines 465 Japan 145 Iceland 110 (only 36 deaths in total) Australia 83 Madagascar 36 New Zealand 9 (only 51 deaths in total) Oh dear Barry ;-) .........Your desperation is showing :D ........ Comparing a country the same size as the UK with a population of 5.1 million.......Where as London is now 9 million 8-) ...... https://www.stats.govt.nz/indicators/population-of-nz https://data.london.gov.uk/dataset/londons-population#: But dont let me stop you making a Pr@t of yourself ;-) ....... Worra a desperate Sado LOSER (lol) (lol) (lol)......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 pelmetman - 2022-01-09 12:38 PM John52 - 2022-01-09 12:32 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 12:24 PM many countries are not using the same counting methods as us :-| .......... ...... We are still waiting for you to explain the differences *-) Do you believe only 4,636 have died of COVID in China? 8-) ........ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ Scrub that........You probably do *-) ......... Joke52 Bump :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 3:09 PM What I am saying is we are an island nation and we had a crucial advantage in that and the fact that we were behind the rest of Europe and saw what was happening yet Johnson threw that away. Remember for more than one occasion because of that we had the worst death rate in the world. Yes others have caught up but that does not excuse what happened here. Just look at the stats for other similar Island nations. Deaths per million UK 2184 (170000+ deaths in total) Indonesia 531 Philippines 465 Japan 145 Iceland 110 (only 36 deaths in total) Australia 83 Madagascar 36 New Zealand 9 (only 51 deaths in total) Yes indeed. As well as having more notice of the virus.. Belgium has a porous border with people nipping back and forth just for shopping. Wheras we have 20 miles of ocean impenetrable by the virus, and borders Johnson had supposedly 'taken back control' of. A huge advantage all the other Island nations have made use of. Except Britain. But how can you tell pelmethead that when he has his fingers in his ears :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 pelmetman - 2022-01-09 3:34 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 12:38 PM John52 - 2022-01-09 12:32 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 12:24 PM many countries are not using the same counting methods as us :-| .......... ...... We are still waiting for you to explain the differences *-) Do you believe only 4,636 have died of COVID in China? 8-) ........ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ Scrub that........You probably do *-) ......... Joke52 Bump :D ....... Yes Since you made the allegation We are still waiting for you to expain the differences in the way deaths are calculated between countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 pelmetman - 2022-01-09 3:34 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 12:38 PM John52 - 2022-01-09 12:32 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 12:24 PM many countries are not using the same counting methods as us :-| .......... ...... We are still waiting for you to explain the differences *-) Do you believe only 4,636 have died of COVID in China? 8-) ........ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ Scrub that........You probably do *-) ......... Joke52 Bump :D ....... Bump :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 John52 - 2022-01-09 3:42 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 3:34 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 12:38 PM John52 - 2022-01-09 12:32 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 12:24 PM many countries are not using the same counting methods as us :-| .......... ...... We are still waiting for you to explain the differences *-) Do you believe only 4,636 have died of COVID in China? 8-) ........ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ Scrub that........You probably do *-) ......... Joke52 Bump :D ....... Yes Since you made the allegation We are still waiting for you to expain the differences in the way deaths are calculated between countries. Dear forum members John52......aka Joke52 thinks only 4,636 people have died of COVID in China 8-) ....... I rest my case >:-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 pelmetman - 2022-01-09 3:45 PM Dear forum members John52......aka Joke52 thinks only 4,636 people have died of COVID in China 8-) ....... I rest my case >:-) .......... Where did I say that *-) You can't just make up a quote and 'rest your case' .. and we are still waiting for you to expain the differences in the way countries calculate deaths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 John52 - 2022-01-09 4:06 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 3:45 PM Dear forum members John52......aka Joke52 thinks only 4,636 people have died of COVID in China 8-) ....... I rest my case >:-) .......... Where did I say that *-) You can't just make up a quote and 'rest your case' .. and we are still waiting for you to expain the differences in the way countries calculate deaths So for clarification ;-) ......... Do you believe ONLY 4,636 people have died of COVID in China? ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 pelmetman - 2022-01-09 3:28 PM Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 3:09 PM Gremlin - 2022-01-09 2:49 PM Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 2:22 PM Gremlin - 2022-01-09 1:02 PM The 150,000 milestone is very sad. But given our population density and ignorance of what we were dealing with such an “milestone” is inevitable. We are all on a journey - and yes, when you don’t know what you are dealing with then wrong decisions will be made whoever is in charge. Governments of all colours make lousy decisions. Look at the furore over Blair’s “gong” and the resulting fallout. But blaming all and sundry simply because an obvious milestone happens is like car passengers on a long journey going nuts when the trip meter hits 150 miles. But we did know what we were dealing with. We saw it coming, Italy and the world health organisation were screaming at Boris Johnson to do something but he just muttered stuff about taking it on the chin and bragged about shaking hands in hospitals full of Covid victims. Not only that but as I keep pointing out we are an island nation! We had every opportunity to prevent this unforgivable loss of life but we lost it because of the abject failure of one man and his cronies. As if that wasnt bad enough, time and time again dither, delay and denial cost tens of thousands of lives. We are on a journey? Others would have made wrong decisions whoever was in charge? OMG What utter tosh. I Cant think of a single politician living or dead that could have done a worse job than Johnson. Can you imagine where we would be now if the vaccine producers and the NHS (that the Tories have tried to run into the ground) had not come to the rescue? What I simply cant get my head around is how people (and thankfully they are few and far between now) can still defend them. Your population density guff is just that, for the birds. But - and I am no fan of BJ - Boris did write, effectively, an open cheque to Universities and Pharmaceutical companies which as a strategy worked far better than the EU strategy of stringing out negotiations trying to get the price down. In contrast, what we did in the U.K. was to secure advance purchase from Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZenica and Janssen (Johnson & Johnson). The AstraZenica contract was notable because all parties agreed that the vaccine would be supplied at cost. As for your suggestion we knew what it was - is just nonsense. This virus was/is a new entity. If it wasn’t we would already have had effective vaccines sitting on the shelf. Yes mistakes were made. But are you suggesting that as other countries such as Poland or Belgium who have higher death rates per million of population had worse governments than ours? Actually I seem to remember the US put way more money into AZ than we did. We got lucky with the contracts also. Despite what you say the EU actually signed theirs with AZ the day before we did but the reason we got ours first was down in the end to the difference between Belgian and UK contract law. We either got lucky or someone in the civil service knew their onions. What I was inferring about us "knowing" about the virus is we saw what was happening across the globe and particularly in Europe but did nothing. We didn't have vaccines of course and back then we thought they could potentially be years away which actually makes the fact that Johnson did nothing even worse. No I am not suggesting Poland or Belgium had worse governments than ours, I don't believe that's possible. What I am saying is we are an island nation and we had a crucial advantage in that and the fact that we were behind the rest of Europe and saw what was happening yet Johnson threw that away. Remember for more than one occasion because of that we had the worst death rate in the world. Yes others have caught up but that does not excuse what happened here. Just look at the stats for other similar Island nations. Deaths per million UK 2184 (170000+ deaths in total) Indonesia 531 Philippines 465 Japan 145 Iceland 110 (only 36 deaths in total) Australia 83 Madagascar 36 New Zealand 9 (only 51 deaths in total) Oh dear Barry ;-) .........Your desperation is showing :D ........ Comparing a country the same size as the UK with a population of 5.1 million.......Where as London is now 9 million 8-) ...... https://www.stats.govt.nz/indicators/population-of-nz https://data.london.gov.uk/dataset/londons-population#: But dont let me stop you making a Pr@t of yourself ;-) ....... Worra a desperate Sado LOSER (lol) (lol) (lol)......... What's the population of Japan then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 pelmetman - 2022-01-09 3:28 PM Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 3:09 PM Gremlin - 2022-01-09 2:49 PM Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 2:22 PM Gremlin - 2022-01-09 1:02 PM The 150,000 milestone is very sad. But given our population density and ignorance of what we were dealing with such an “milestone” is inevitable. We are all on a journey - and yes, when you don’t know what you are dealing with then wrong decisions will be made whoever is in charge. Governments of all colours make lousy decisions. Look at the furore over Blair’s “gong” and the resulting fallout. But blaming all and sundry simply because an obvious milestone happens is like car passengers on a long journey going nuts when the trip meter hits 150 miles. But we did know what we were dealing with. We saw it coming, Italy and the world health organisation were screaming at Boris Johnson to do something but he just muttered stuff about taking it on the chin and bragged about shaking hands in hospitals full of Covid victims. Not only that but as I keep pointing out we are an island nation! We had every opportunity to prevent this unforgivable loss of life but we lost it because of the abject failure of one man and his cronies. As if that wasnt bad enough, time and time again dither, delay and denial cost tens of thousands of lives. We are on a journey? Others would have made wrong decisions whoever was in charge? OMG What utter tosh. I Cant think of a single politician living or dead that could have done a worse job than Johnson. Can you imagine where we would be now if the vaccine producers and the NHS (that the Tories have tried to run into the ground) had not come to the rescue? What I simply cant get my head around is how people (and thankfully they are few and far between now) can still defend them. Your population density guff is just that, for the birds. But - and I am no fan of BJ - Boris did write, effectively, an open cheque to Universities and Pharmaceutical companies which as a strategy worked far better than the EU strategy of stringing out negotiations trying to get the price down. In contrast, what we did in the U.K. was to secure advance purchase from Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZenica and Janssen (Johnson & Johnson). The AstraZenica contract was notable because all parties agreed that the vaccine would be supplied at cost. As for your suggestion we knew what it was - is just nonsense. This virus was/is a new entity. If it wasn’t we would already have had effective vaccines sitting on the shelf. Yes mistakes were made. But are you suggesting that as other countries such as Poland or Belgium who have higher death rates per million of population had worse governments than ours? Actually I seem to remember the US put way more money into AZ than we did. We got lucky with the contracts also. Despite what you say the EU actually signed theirs with AZ the day before we did but the reason we got ours first was down in the end to the difference between Belgian and UK contract law. We either got lucky or someone in the civil service knew their onions. What I was inferring about us "knowing" about the virus is we saw what was happening across the globe and particularly in Europe but did nothing. We didn't have vaccines of course and back then we thought they could potentially be years away which actually makes the fact that Johnson did nothing even worse. No I am not suggesting Poland or Belgium had worse governments than ours, I don't believe that's possible. What I am saying is we are an island nation and we had a crucial advantage in that and the fact that we were behind the rest of Europe and saw what was happening yet Johnson threw that away. Remember for more than one occasion because of that we had the worst death rate in the world. Yes others have caught up but that does not excuse what happened here. Just look at the stats for other similar Island nations. Deaths per million UK 2184 (170000+ deaths in total) Indonesia 531 Philippines 465 Japan 145 Iceland 110 (only 36 deaths in total) Australia 83 Madagascar 36 New Zealand 9 (only 51 deaths in total) Oh dear Barry ;-) .........Your desperation is showing :D ........ Comparing a country the same size as the UK with a population of 5.1 million.......Where as London is now 9 million 8-) ...... https://www.stats.govt.nz/indicators/population-of-nz https://data.london.gov.uk/dataset/londons-population#: But dont let me stop you making a Pr@t of yourself ;-) ....... Worra a desperate Sado LOSER (lol) (lol) (lol)......... The only one making a Prat of himself is you. These are island nations either with similar scale of economy or population to the UK but the purpose of the list is to highlight the massive difference between them and the UK. Clearly being an island nation is or at least should be a huge advantage in a pandemic. Ill redo the list for you though all the same. UK 2184 (170000+ deaths in total) Pop: 67 million Indonesia 531 Pop: 273 million Philippines 465 Pop:109 million Japan 145 Pop: 125 million Iceland 110 (only 36 deaths in total) Pop: 366 Thousand Australia 83 Pop: 26 million Madagascar 36 Pop: 28 million New Zealand 9 (only 51 deaths in total) Pop: 5 Million I included New Zealand and Iceland for the following reasons. Firstly New Zealand under Jacinda Ardern has even for an island nation done spectacularly well. She is an excellent Prime Minister the likes of which due to people like you but actually more due to the Media Moguls and Tufton street mob we can only dream about. Wellington (the capital of NZ, save you looking it up) is like a large UK city and has a large population. Still virtually no deaths. Iceland I included because despite them being such a small population they didnt do quite as well as some (but way way better than we did) but it highlights just how beneficial being an island nation should be in a pandemic. The rest are either a bit below our population or massively larger than ours but they all have one undeniable thing in common. Their rates are many times lower than ours and a large part of that is because they are surrounded by sea. So as said. Johnson did nothing and failed to take advantage of our island status and the rest is history. I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 pelmetman - 2022-01-09 10:15 AM BUT AS THE FACTS SHOW.....the majority of those "Actually" dying from COVID now are unvaccinated :-| ....... . Are you sure? A UKHSA report showed that in England 27% of those admitted to hospital with Omicron variant hadn't been vaccinated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 4:37 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 3:28 PM Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 3:09 PM Gremlin - 2022-01-09 2:49 PM Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 2:22 PM Gremlin - 2022-01-09 1:02 PM The 150,000 milestone is very sad. But given our population density and ignorance of what we were dealing with such an “milestone” is inevitable. We are all on a journey - and yes, when you don’t know what you are dealing with then wrong decisions will be made whoever is in charge. Governments of all colours make lousy decisions. Look at the furore over Blair’s “gong” and the resulting fallout. But blaming all and sundry simply because an obvious milestone happens is like car passengers on a long journey going nuts when the trip meter hits 150 miles. But we did know what we were dealing with. We saw it coming, Italy and the world health organisation were screaming at Boris Johnson to do something but he just muttered stuff about taking it on the chin and bragged about shaking hands in hospitals full of Covid victims. Not only that but as I keep pointing out we are an island nation! We had every opportunity to prevent this unforgivable loss of life but we lost it because of the abject failure of one man and his cronies. As if that wasnt bad enough, time and time again dither, delay and denial cost tens of thousands of lives. We are on a journey? Others would have made wrong decisions whoever was in charge? OMG What utter tosh. I Cant think of a single politician living or dead that could have done a worse job than Johnson. Can you imagine where we would be now if the vaccine producers and the NHS (that the Tories have tried to run into the ground) had not come to the rescue? What I simply cant get my head around is how people (and thankfully they are few and far between now) can still defend them. Your population density guff is just that, for the birds. But - and I am no fan of BJ - Boris did write, effectively, an open cheque to Universities and Pharmaceutical companies which as a strategy worked far better than the EU strategy of stringing out negotiations trying to get the price down. In contrast, what we did in the U.K. was to secure advance purchase from Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZenica and Janssen (Johnson & Johnson). The AstraZenica contract was notable because all parties agreed that the vaccine would be supplied at cost. As for your suggestion we knew what it was - is just nonsense. This virus was/is a new entity. If it wasn’t we would already have had effective vaccines sitting on the shelf. Yes mistakes were made. But are you suggesting that as other countries such as Poland or Belgium who have higher death rates per million of population had worse governments than ours? Actually I seem to remember the US put way more money into AZ than we did. We got lucky with the contracts also. Despite what you say the EU actually signed theirs with AZ the day before we did but the reason we got ours first was down in the end to the difference between Belgian and UK contract law. We either got lucky or someone in the civil service knew their onions. What I was inferring about us "knowing" about the virus is we saw what was happening across the globe and particularly in Europe but did nothing. We didn't have vaccines of course and back then we thought they could potentially be years away which actually makes the fact that Johnson did nothing even worse. No I am not suggesting Poland or Belgium had worse governments than ours, I don't believe that's possible. What I am saying is we are an island nation and we had a crucial advantage in that and the fact that we were behind the rest of Europe and saw what was happening yet Johnson threw that away. Remember for more than one occasion because of that we had the worst death rate in the world. Yes others have caught up but that does not excuse what happened here. Just look at the stats for other similar Island nations. Deaths per million UK 2184 (170000+ deaths in total) Indonesia 531 Philippines 465 Japan 145 Iceland 110 (only 36 deaths in total) Australia 83 Madagascar 36 New Zealand 9 (only 51 deaths in total) Oh dear Barry ;-) .........Your desperation is showing :D ........ Comparing a country the same size as the UK with a population of 5.1 million.......Where as London is now 9 million 8-) ...... https://www.stats.govt.nz/indicators/population-of-nz https://data.london.gov.uk/dataset/londons-population#: But dont let me stop you making a Pr@t of yourself ;-) ....... Worra a desperate Sado LOSER (lol) (lol) (lol)......... The only one making a Prat of himself is you. These are island nations either with similar scale of economy or population to the UK but the purpose of the list is to highlight the massive difference between them and the UK. Clearly being an island nation is or at least should be a huge advantage in a pandemic. Ill redo the list for you though all the same. UK 2184 (170000+ deaths in total) Pop: 67 million Indonesia 531 Pop: 273 million Philippines 465 Pop:109 million Japan 145 Pop: 125 million Iceland 110 (only 36 deaths in total) Pop: 366 Thousand Australia 83 Pop: 26 million Madagascar 36 Pop: 28 million New Zealand 9 (only 51 deaths in total) Pop: 5 Million I included New Zealand and Iceland for the following reasons. Firstly New Zealand under Jacinda Ardern has even for an island nation done spectacularly well. She is an excellent Prime Minister the likes of which due to people like you but actually more due to the Media Moguls and Tufton street mob we can only dream about. Wellington (the capital of NZ, save you looking it up) is like a large UK city and has a large population. Still virtually no deaths. Iceland I included because despite them being such a small population they didnt do quite as well as some (but way way better than we did) but it highlights just how beneficial being an island nation should be in a pandemic. The rest are either a bit below our population or massively larger than ours but they all have one undeniable thing in common. Their rates are many times lower than ours and a large part of that is because they are surrounded by sea. So as said. Johnson did nothing and failed to take advantage of our island status and the rest is history. I rest my case. So 4 countries......1 removed now qualify as a Island?........ "So as said. Johnson did nothing and failed to take advantage of our island status and the rest is history." Apparently Venice has 118 islands so how does your theory stack up in Italy? :-| .......... Carry on making a Pr@t of yourself Barry ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 colin - 2022-01-09 4:49 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 10:15 AM BUT AS THE FACTS SHOW.....the majority of those "Actually" dying from COVID now are unvaccinated :-| ....... . Are you sure? A UKHSA report showed that in England 27% of those admitted to hospital with Omicron variant hadn't been vaccinated. So how many of them ended up in intensive care?.......and dying? :-| ......... We had a item on our local news where a Royal Navy Commander Doctor who had been drafted to help a local hospital said, "he was seeing whole family's of unvaxccinated (idiots) arriving in hospital" *-) ......... BTW.......He didn't use the term in brackets.......he was far to polite ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 pelmetman - 2022-01-09 5:01 PM colin - 2022-01-09 4:49 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 10:15 AM BUT AS THE FACTS SHOW.....the majority of those "Actually" dying from COVID now are unvaccinated :-| ....... . Are you sure? A UKHSA report showed that in England 27% of those admitted to hospital with Omicron variant hadn't been vaccinated. So how many of them ended up in intensive care?.......and dying? :-| ......... Well I had hoped you might tell us Dave, as you posted "THE FACTS SHOW", because AFIAK the 'FACTS' about Omicron haven't yet been published, we do know the facts about Delta variant, and due to the way it is much worse in elder people (the highest vaccinated) compared to younger people (the least vaccinated) around 2/3rds of those dying where fully vaccinated. It may well be the booster program will change that, but I won't be placing any bets. In the media we oftensee stories of "anti vaxer dies", I've yet to see a story of "fully vaxed dies", but the reality for the last 6(? ) months this has been the case. BTW I'm not a anti vaxer, I'm fully jabbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 Gremlin - 2022-01-09 4:57 PM Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 3:09 PM Gremlin - 2022-01-09 2:49 PM Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 2:22 PM Gremlin - 2022-01-09 1:02 PM The 150,000 milestone is very sad. But given our population density and ignorance of what we were dealing with such an “milestone” is inevitable. We are all on a journey - and yes, when you don’t know what you are dealing with then wrong decisions will be made whoever is in charge. Governments of all colours make lousy decisions. Look at the furore over Blair’s “gong” and the resulting fallout. But blaming all and sundry simply because an obvious milestone happens is like car passengers on a long journey going nuts when the trip meter hits 150 miles. But we did know what we were dealing with. We saw it coming, Italy and the world health organisation were screaming at Boris Johnson to do something but he just muttered stuff about taking it on the chin and bragged about shaking hands in hospitals full of Covid victims. Not only that but as I keep pointing out we are an island nation! We had every opportunity to prevent this unforgivable loss of life but we lost it because of the abject failure of one man and his cronies. As if that wasnt bad enough, time and time again dither, delay and denial cost tens of thousands of lives. We are on a journey? Others would have made wrong decisions whoever was in charge? OMG What utter tosh. I Cant think of a single politician living or dead that could have done a worse job than Johnson. Can you imagine where we would be now if the vaccine producers and the NHS (that the Tories have tried to run into the ground) had not come to the rescue? What I simply cant get my head around is how people (and thankfully they are few and far between now) can still defend them. Your population density guff is just that, for the birds. But - and I am no fan of BJ - Boris did write, effectively, an open cheque to Universities and Pharmaceutical companies which as a strategy worked far better than the EU strategy of stringing out negotiations trying to get the price down. In contrast, what we did in the U.K. was to secure advance purchase from Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZenica and Janssen (Johnson & Johnson). The AstraZenica contract was notable because all parties agreed that the vaccine would be supplied at cost. As for your suggestion we knew what it was - is just nonsense. This virus was/is a new entity. If it wasn’t we would already have had effective vaccines sitting on the shelf. Yes mistakes were made. But are you suggesting that as other countries such as Poland or Belgium who have higher death rates per million of population had worse governments than ours? Actually I seem to remember the US put way more money into AZ than we did. We got lucky with the contracts also. Despite what you say the EU actually signed theirs with AZ the day before we did but the reason we got ours first was down in the end to the difference between Belgian and UK contract law. We either got lucky or someone in the civil service knew their onions. What I was inferring about us "knowing" about the virus is we saw what was happening across the globe and particularly in Europe but did nothing. We didn't have vaccines of course and back then we thought they could potentially be years away which actually makes the fact that Johnson did nothing even worse. No I am not suggesting Poland or Belgium had worse governments than ours, I don't believe that's possible. What I am saying is we are an island nation and we had a crucial advantage in that and the fact that we were behind the rest of Europe and saw what was happening yet Johnson threw that away. Remember for more than one occasion because of that we had the worst death rate in the world. Yes others have caught up but that does not excuse what happened here. Just look at the stats for other similar Island nations. Deaths per million UK 2184 (170000+ deaths in total) Indonesia 531 Philippines 465 Japan 145 Iceland 110 (only 36 deaths in total) Australia 83 Madagascar 36 New Zealand 9 (only 51 deaths in total) So you compare the U.K. which by most measurements has the 5th or 6th largest economy in the world to those you list? I mean no disrespect to those island nations listed - I love at least three of them as a frequent visitor. But they don’t have the population density or the likes of Heathrow, Gatwick and all the other ports and transport hubs so vital for maintaining our U.K. Trade. Simply shutting all that down without a REALLY good reason would have had a devastating effect on the U.K. economy. So assurances were sought and delays happened. The Island Nations you cite can and did Lockdown their economies because it was easy for them to do so. They are lovely places - but hardly comparable economically to the U.K. Yeah Im not really buying that. Japan, Indonesia, Australia are all in the worlds top 20 economies and Japan is the third biggest. All of them rely on ports and airports for trade. Nobody was talking about shutting down trade traffic but Johnson time and time again just let people flood in. He refused to put India on the red list when their Delta variant was discovered to be rife because he was concerned about losing a blooming Brexit trade deal!! On and on it went. A friend of mine recently flew back in from visiting several countries around the globe just after Christmas and he said the checks everywhere he went were amazingly thorough until he got back to the UK where he reckoned they were pretty none existent. So I stand by what I said. We like other island nations had an advantage and it was yet another one we threw away and that is one reason why 150000 people are now dead including one of my closest friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 colin - 2022-01-09 5:36 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 5:01 PM colin - 2022-01-09 4:49 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 10:15 AM BUT AS THE FACTS SHOW.....the majority of those "Actually" dying from COVID now are unvaccinated :-| ....... . Are you sure? A UKHSA report showed that in England 27% of those admitted to hospital with Omicron variant hadn't been vaccinated. So how many of them ended up in intensive care?.......and dying? :-| ......... Well I had hoped you might tell us Dave, as you posted "THE FACTS SHOW", because AFIAK the 'FACTS' about Omicron haven't yet been published, we do know the facts about Delta variant, and due to the way it is much worse in elder people (the highest vaccinated) compared to younger people (the least vaccinated) around 2/3rds of those dying where fully vaccinated. It may well be the booster program will change that, but I won't be placing any bets. In the media we oftensee stories of "anti vaxer dies", I've yet to see a story of "fully vaxed dies", but the reality for the last 6(? ) months this has been the case. BTW I'm not a anti vaxer, I'm fully jabbed. The Facts are there for you to find ;-) ....... Age-standardised mortality rate per 100,000 person-years (95% confidence interval) Vaccination status Deaths involving COVID-19 All deaths Unvaccinated 849.7 (840.3, 859.2) 2,187.1 (2,172.2, 2,202.0) https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 pelmetman - 2022-01-09 4:51 PM Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 4:37 PM pelmetman - 2022-01-09 3:28 PM Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 3:09 PM Gremlin - 2022-01-09 2:49 PM Barryd999 - 2022-01-09 2:22 PM Gremlin - 2022-01-09 1:02 PM The 150,000 milestone is very sad. But given our population density and ignorance of what we were dealing with such an “milestone” is inevitable. We are all on a journey - and yes, when you don’t know what you are dealing with then wrong decisions will be made whoever is in charge. Governments of all colours make lousy decisions. Look at the furore over Blair’s “gong” and the resulting fallout. But blaming all and sundry simply because an obvious milestone happens is like car passengers on a long journey going nuts when the trip meter hits 150 miles. But we did know what we were dealing with. We saw it coming, Italy and the world health organisation were screaming at Boris Johnson to do something but he just muttered stuff about taking it on the chin and bragged about shaking hands in hospitals full of Covid victims. Not only that but as I keep pointing out we are an island nation! We had every opportunity to prevent this unforgivable loss of life but we lost it because of the abject failure of one man and his cronies. As if that wasnt bad enough, time and time again dither, delay and denial cost tens of thousands of lives. We are on a journey? Others would have made wrong decisions whoever was in charge? OMG What utter tosh. I Cant think of a single politician living or dead that could have done a worse job than Johnson. Can you imagine where we would be now if the vaccine producers and the NHS (that the Tories have tried to run into the ground) had not come to the rescue? What I simply cant get my head around is how people (and thankfully they are few and far between now) can still defend them. Your population density guff is just that, for the birds. But - and I am no fan of BJ - Boris did write, effectively, an open cheque to Universities and Pharmaceutical companies which as a strategy worked far better than the EU strategy of stringing out negotiations trying to get the price down. In contrast, what we did in the U.K. was to secure advance purchase from Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZenica and Janssen (Johnson & Johnson). The AstraZenica contract was notable because all parties agreed that the vaccine would be supplied at cost. As for your suggestion we knew what it was - is just nonsense. This virus was/is a new entity. If it wasn’t we would already have had effective vaccines sitting on the shelf. Yes mistakes were made. But are you suggesting that as other countries such as Poland or Belgium who have higher death rates per million of population had worse governments than ours? Actually I seem to remember the US put way more money into AZ than we did. We got lucky with the contracts also. Despite what you say the EU actually signed theirs with AZ the day before we did but the reason we got ours first was down in the end to the difference between Belgian and UK contract law. We either got lucky or someone in the civil service knew their onions. What I was inferring about us "knowing" about the virus is we saw what was happening across the globe and particularly in Europe but did nothing. We didn't have vaccines of course and back then we thought they could potentially be years away which actually makes the fact that Johnson did nothing even worse. No I am not suggesting Poland or Belgium had worse governments than ours, I don't believe that's possible. What I am saying is we are an island nation and we had a crucial advantage in that and the fact that we were behind the rest of Europe and saw what was happening yet Johnson threw that away. Remember for more than one occasion because of that we had the worst death rate in the world. Yes others have caught up but that does not excuse what happened here. Just look at the stats for other similar Island nations. Deaths per million UK 2184 (170000+ deaths in total) Indonesia 531 Philippines 465 Japan 145 Iceland 110 (only 36 deaths in total) Australia 83 Madagascar 36 New Zealand 9 (only 51 deaths in total) Oh dear Barry ;-) .........Your desperation is showing :D ........ Comparing a country the same size as the UK with a population of 5.1 million.......Where as London is now 9 million 8-) ...... https://www.stats.govt.nz/indicators/population-of-nz https://data.london.gov.uk/dataset/londons-population#: But dont let me stop you making a Pr@t of yourself ;-) ....... Worra a desperate Sado LOSER (lol) (lol) (lol)......... The only one making a Prat of himself is you. These are island nations either with similar scale of economy or population to the UK but the purpose of the list is to highlight the massive difference between them and the UK. Clearly being an island nation is or at least should be a huge advantage in a pandemic. Ill redo the list for you though all the same. UK 2184 (170000+ deaths in total) Pop: 67 million Indonesia 531 Pop: 273 million Philippines 465 Pop:109 million Japan 145 Pop: 125 million Iceland 110 (only 36 deaths in total) Pop: 366 Thousand Australia 83 Pop: 26 million Madagascar 36 Pop: 28 million New Zealand 9 (only 51 deaths in total) Pop: 5 Million I included New Zealand and Iceland for the following reasons. Firstly New Zealand under Jacinda Ardern has even for an island nation done spectacularly well. She is an excellent Prime Minister the likes of which due to people like you but actually more due to the Media Moguls and Tufton street mob we can only dream about. Wellington (the capital of NZ, save you looking it up) is like a large UK city and has a large population. Still virtually no deaths. Iceland I included because despite them being such a small population they didnt do quite as well as some (but way way better than we did) but it highlights just how beneficial being an island nation should be in a pandemic. The rest are either a bit below our population or massively larger than ours but they all have one undeniable thing in common. Their rates are many times lower than ours and a large part of that is because they are surrounded by sea. So as said. Johnson did nothing and failed to take advantage of our island status and the rest is history. I rest my case. So 4 countries......1 removed now qualify as a Island?........ "So as said. Johnson did nothing and failed to take advantage of our island status and the rest is history." Apparently Venice has 118 islands so how does your theory stack up in Italy? :-| .......... Carry on making a Pr@t of yourself Barry ;-) ........ WTF are you on about? There is only one person on here making a Prat of himself Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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