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Dame Margaret Beckett
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userBulletguy
Posted: 6 December 2018 8:16 PM
Subject: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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Brilliant speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhTy1_zd1UU
userJohn52
Posted: 7 December 2018 7:08 AM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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Its very good.
If only the House of Commons benches had been as full as they were when they were discussing MP's pay
I doubt if many Brexiteers will bother to listen to it either.
If I had to condense it into one headline for them it would be that May's deal is surrendering 'our sovereignty' - the very thing they think is worth the economic disaster of Brexit.
Its very clear from posts on here that those who voted Brexit don't realise that.
userpelmetman
Posted: 7 December 2018 8:35 AM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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John52 - 2018-12-07 7:08 AM

Its very good.
If only the House of Commons benches had been as full as they were when they were discussing MP's pay
I doubt if many Brexiteers will bother to listen to it either.
If I had to condense it into one headline for them it would be that May's deal is surrendering 'our sovereignty' - the very thing they think is worth the economic disaster of Brexit.
Its very clear from posts on here that those who voted Brexit don't realise that.


Incorrect .........Some of us want a no deal .........

But Mays deal will mean are sovereignty "STAYS" in the hands of the EU .........

So I guess we'll end up half in half out.......with neither side satisfied.......But half out is better than all in.......In my book .......



userJohn52
Posted: 7 December 2018 8:45 AM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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pelmetman - 2018-12-07 8:35 AM

John52 - 2018-12-07 7:08 AM

Its very good.
If only the House of Commons benches had been as full as they were when they were discussing MP's pay
I doubt if many Brexiteers will bother to listen to it either.
If I had to condense it into one headline for them it would be that May's deal is surrendering 'our sovereignty' - the very thing they think is worth the economic disaster of Brexit.
Its very clear from posts on here that those who voted Brexit don't realise that.


Incorrect .........Some of us want a no deal .........

But Mays deal will mean are sovereignty "STAYS" in the hands of the EU .........

So I guess we'll end up half in half out.......with neither side satisfied.......But half out is better than all in.......In my book .......




Did you listen to her speech
userpelmetman
Posted: 7 December 2018 8:56 AM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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John52 - 2018-12-07 8:45 AM

pelmetman - 2018-12-07 8:35 AM

John52 - 2018-12-07 7:08 AM

Its very good.
If only the House of Commons benches had been as full as they were when they were discussing MP's pay
I doubt if many Brexiteers will bother to listen to it either.
If I had to condense it into one headline for them it would be that May's deal is surrendering 'our sovereignty' - the very thing they think is worth the economic disaster of Brexit.
Its very clear from posts on here that those who voted Brexit don't realise that.


Incorrect .........Some of us want a no deal .........

But Mays deal will mean are sovereignty "STAYS" in the hands of the EU .........

So I guess we'll end up half in half out.......with neither side satisfied.......But half out is better than all in.......In my book .......




Did you listen to her speech


Nah.......I've still got knobs to polish .........

userJohn52
Posted: 7 December 2018 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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pelmetman - 2018-12-07 8:56 AM
......But half out is better than all in.......In my book .......


By what Mad Hatter logic is it better to be still subject to EU law and have no say in it Baldrick
userBarryd999
Posted: 7 December 2018 5:20 PM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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John52 - 2018-12-07 4:11 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-07 8:56 AM
......But half out is better than all in.......In my book .......


By what Mad Hatter logic is it better to be still subject to EU law and have no say in it Baldrick


I have to say I am somewhat perplexed that the Brexiteers on here dont seem outraged against Mays Deal especially Dave Pelment Head. Most of the hard Brexiteers and Remainers are completely opposed to it and for very good reasons. Its terrible! At least though it will see the debate and arguments go on for at least a decade as we try and hammer out further deals, extended transition and the ultimate god awful backstop which we could be in until 2099 so we will be able to continue arguing the toss on here until we are all dead.

No. I think we need to nail our colours to the mast and demand a second referendum on No deal or No Brexit! or just let Parliament vote on No deal or No Brexit but lets agree to bin mays crappy fudge.

Edited by Barryd999 2018-12-07 5:21 PM
userBulletguy
Posted: 7 December 2018 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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John52 - 2018-12-07 8:45 AM

pelmetman - 2018-12-07 8:35 AM

John52 - 2018-12-07 7:08 AM

Its very good.
If only the House of Commons benches had been as full as they were when they were discussing MP's pay
I doubt if many Brexiteers will bother to listen to it either.
If I had to condense it into one headline for them it would be that May's deal is surrendering 'our sovereignty' - the very thing they think is worth the economic disaster of Brexit.
Its very clear from posts on here that those who voted Brexit don't realise that.


Incorrect .........Some of us want a no deal .........

But Mays deal will mean are sovereignty "STAYS" in the hands of the EU .........

So I guess we'll end up half in half out.......with neither side satisfied.......But half out is better than all in.......In my book .......




Did you listen to her speech

Obviously he didn't......and won't.
userBulletguy
Posted: 7 December 2018 6:05 PM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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Barryd999 - 2018-12-07 5:20 PM

John52 - 2018-12-07 4:11 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-07 8:56 AM
......But half out is better than all in.......In my book .......


By what Mad Hatter logic is it better to be still subject to EU law and have no say in it Baldrick


I have to say I am somewhat perplexed that the Brexiteers on here dont seem outraged against Mays Deal especially Dave Pelment Head. Most of the hard Brexiteers and Remainers are completely opposed to it and for very good reasons. Its terrible! At least though it will see the debate and arguments go on for at least a decade as we try and hammer out further deals, extended transition and the ultimate god awful backstop which we could be in until 2099 so we will be able to continue arguing the toss on here until we are all dead.

No. I think we need to nail our colours to the mast and demand a second referendum on No deal or No Brexit! or just let Parliament vote on No deal or No Brexit but lets agree to bin mays crappy fudge.

I'm not. Having read comments on other forums it's plain to see the sheeple are of the same mindset. One of the most fitting comments i read in answer to why Brexiters want out at any price plunging the country into years of horrendous debt and austerity was, "they got fed up of losing the Eurovision song contest".

It's just 'a game' to them that they want to 'win' and openly fear a peoples vote, which they know they'd lose. In fact they fear anything they see as a potential threat because most now realise they've been sold a pup but too stubborn to admit to it hence the head in sand attitude.
userpelmetman
Posted: 8 December 2018 8:01 AM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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John52 - 2018-12-07 4:11 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-07 8:56 AM
......But half out is better than all in.......In my book .......


By what Mad Hatter logic is it better to be still subject to EU law and have no say in it Baldrick


I see you still subscribe to the myth that we have a say in the fourth Reich ........

userpelmetman
Posted: 8 December 2018 8:04 AM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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Barryd999 - 2018-12-07 5:20 PM

I have to say I am somewhat perplexed that the Brexiteers on here dont seem outraged against Mays Deal especially Dave Pelment Head.


A bad deal is better than staying in the EU ............

Regaining some control is better than having none ........

userBarryd999
Posted: 8 December 2018 9:29 AM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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pelmetman - 2018-12-08 8:04 AM

Barryd999 - 2018-12-07 5:20 PM

I have to say I am somewhat perplexed that the Brexiteers on here dont seem outraged against Mays Deal especially Dave Pelment Head.


A bad deal is better than staying in the EU ............

Regaining some control is better than having none ........



it just isnt. With this deal we cannot get out of it without the EU say so, EVER! There is nothing good about it whatsoever. You must really be afraid of losing a second ref to accept this pile of horse poo Dave.
userBulletguy
Posted: 8 December 2018 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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pelmetman - 2018-12-08 8:04 AM

Barryd999 - 2018-12-07 5:20 PM

I have to say I am somewhat perplexed that the Brexiteers on here dont seem outraged against Mays Deal especially Dave Pelment Head.


A bad deal is better than staying in the EU ............

Regaining some control is better than having none ........

You obviously haven't told expat Brits in Spain your views as you're still posting. Here is a rough breakdown from your favoured rag next to the Daily Xenophopbe, so it''s a bit 'watered down' though has some pictures for you.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1024329/no-deal-brexit-explained-what-does-no-deal-brexit-mean

Here is another...also with a picture guide.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/what-no-deal-brexit-what-13419829
userTracker
Posted: 8 December 2018 4:26 PM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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As a self confessed fence sitter I see little to like in the PM's deal and as far as the Dover hype is concerned I see it as little more than scare mongering by the PM's fudge and spin hangers on to garner more votes for the deal.
userBarryd999
Posted: 8 December 2018 4:56 PM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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Tracker - 2018-12-08 4:26 PM

As a self confessed fence sitter I see little to like in the PM's deal and as far as the Dover hype is concerned I see it as little more than scare mongering by the PM's fudge and spin hangers on to garner more votes for the deal.


Its not just the government that are warning about Dover and the ports Rich. Plenty of Customs officials, port workers etc have spoken about how catastrophic it will be. You dont have to be a genius to work it out. four million trucks going through two tiny bottle necks suddenly delayed by anything from a few minutes to perhaps hours is going to snarl up like all the worlds biggest traffic jams in one place and what have we done to prepare for that? Absolutely feck all. Well apart from a few pretend gestures. Its another reason why I think No Deal was never an option.
userTracker
Posted: 8 December 2018 5:07 PM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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You may, or may not, be right Barry, but you surely agree that there are none as good at crying wolf than those with a political or monetary axe to grind, besides which it could be argued that border checks have become too lax in recent years as a political expedient to a criminal problem.
userTracker
Posted: 8 December 2018 5:19 PM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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Definition of a 'good speech' - a speech that support and gives validity to ones own beliefs.

Definition of a 'bad speech' - a speech that contradicts or ridicules ones own beliefs.

Objectivity goes down the pan and it's all a matter of subjectivity!
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 8 December 2018 6:55 PM
Subject: RE: Dame Margaret Beckett
 


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Tracker - 2018-12-08 5:07 PM

You may, or may not, be right Barry, but you surely agree that there are none as good at crying wolf than those with a political or monetary axe to grind, besides which it could be argued that border checks have become too lax in recent years as a political expedient to a criminal problem.

Probably true, but the delay forecast was based on a worst case scenario. So, probability lies in less extreme territory.

Still (it is quite a while since we used Dover-Calais) looking at the port area on Google earth, it is very difficult to see where trucks could be stacked between the unloading ramps and the customs shed while awaiting clearance. The old facilities have been removed over the past 45 years on the basis that there would be only selected checks (more usually border force checks for stowaways).

Once out of the customs union, all traffic to/from the EU should be checked for its contents, as well as stowaways. The incoming at our end, the outgoing at their end. Both parties will inevitably be concerned with contraband, and protecting their duty streams.

It is no use people claiming that it will depend on how disruptive the French choose to be, they are legally obliged to carryout checks because Calais/Coquelles become the EU border, not just the French border. Same will apply to all ferry ports running ferries to-from UK.

Extended checking times will inevitably result in lower throughputs at both ends, that can only result in backlogs developing at the points of arrival, and those backlogs can only be cleared if the inflows are stemmed, meaning, in both directions, that vehicles will have to be held back from boarding ship/shuttle.

So, whereas the worst case scenario inevitably overstates the likely problem, the sheer volume of vehicles means that the present installations, which only just keep up with what it is possible to carry, will snarl up. There is no slack in the system, it runs at capacity pretty well 24/7.
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