antony1969 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Lordy ... No one saw this coming ... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6352817/Schoolboy-aged-30-told-pupils-married-father-two.html ... Your daughter/grandaughter could be sat next to one in geography ... All to please those who need to feel good about themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-11-05 6:34 AM Lordy ... No one saw this coming ... You would have done I suppose - you would have known how old he is just by looking at him *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 Dental tests ... You wet hankies dint want that though did ya ... "racist" as Gary Lineker screamed ... Says a lot when your first response is to attack me and say nothing about the obvious dangers of having grown men posing as children in our schools... Shame on ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-11-05 7:24 AM Dental tests ... You wet hankies dint want that though did ya ... "racist" as Gary Lineker screamed Who are these 'wet hankies' objecting to Dental Tests? Sounds more like one of your lot objecting on the grounds of cost They come over here to use our NHS etc... When the rest of us can't get NHS Dental appointments PS: Ever tried to get one of those lately? Some people are reduced to pulling their own teeth ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-11-05 7:24 AM t the obvious dangers of having grown men posing as children in our schools... You seem to be inferring that danger is not there if the children are the same age But the greatest danger to children is from other children. Many have been stabbed or driven to suicide by bullying. Thats something we need to tackle but its difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 John52 - 2018-11-05 7:49 AM antony1969 - 2018-11-05 7:24 AM t the obvious dangers of having grown men posing as children in our schools... You seem to be inferring that danger is not there if the children are the same age But the greatest danger to children is from other children. Many have been stabbed or driven to suicide by bullying. Thats something we need to tackle but its difficult You're being silly again and seem to be inferring it's OK to have adults posing as children in our schools ... I'll take the side of the children any day , you obviously don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 John52 - 2018-11-05 7:31 AM antony1969 - 2018-11-05 7:24 AM Dental tests ... You wet hankies dint want that though did ya ... "racist" as Gary Lineker screamed Who are these 'wet hankies' objecting to Dental Tests? Sounds more like one of your lot objecting on the grounds of cost They come over here to use our NHS etc... When the rest of us can't get NHS Dental appointments PS: Ever tried to get one of those lately? Some people are reduced to pulling their own teeth ... Usual drivel that makes no sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-11-05 7:24 AM Dental tests ... You wet hankies dint want that though did ya ... "racist" as Gary Lineker screamed ... Says a lot when your first response is to attack me and say nothing about the obvious dangers of having grown men posing as children in our schools... Shame on ya I seem to recall Antony that the use of dental tests was opposed by the British Dental Association particularly the use of x-rays, due to fundamental principles relating to medical ethics as well as concerns that they are not necessarily a good indicator of age. I wouldn't accuse the BDA of being wet-hankies as you put it. Age assessment must be a tricky business. My son who is 29 could easily pass for 17 hence he always has to carry ID when going to the pub etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 Its hardly a surprise some find dental checks unethical given our wet blanket world , doesn't mean the whingers are right ... As for accuracy of the checks I'm sure even a highly paid dentist can distinguish between a minors teeth and those of a 30 year old ... Strange but not surprising that instead of condemning someone posing as a child pupil in one of our schools the usual suspects prefer to defend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 The poor bloke is very probably trans-age and identifies as being 15. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-11-05 12:15 PM Its hardly a surprise some find dental checks unethical given our wet blanket world , doesn't mean the whingers are right ... As for accuracy of the checks I'm sure even a highly paid dentist can distinguish between a minors teeth and those of a 30 year old ... Strange but not surprising that instead of condemning someone posing as a child pupil in one of our schools the usual suspects prefer to defend I don't see that anyone is defending him Antony. What is particularly concerning is the bit in the article where it is said that he was bombarding a 15 year old with texts. There are obviously safeguarding issues that arise in this instance and the parents need to be assured that age assessments are reliable and the parents of these children in particular deserve to be told what if, anything, went wrong here. As for your assertion about a dentist being sure to able to distinguish between a minor's teeth and those of a 30 year old I wasn't aware that you were an expert in forensic dentistry. I've yet to see the BDA release advice or their opinion on best practice for roofers, I wonder why that is? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 Not an expert Veronica in dentistry just like many others on here who offer opinion on various subjects aren't experts in those either ... However I'm pretty sure that a dentist would no the difference between a 15 year olds teeth and a 30 year olds don't you or are you seriously suggesting they wouldn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 I only go by my research on google about what the BDA’s view is on this subject Antony. https://www.dentalage.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/bda_position_paper_on_daa_2012_0917_from2008.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 Mmmm ... So by that reckoning tha's no way you could mistake a 30 year old man for a 15 year old boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-11-05 2:52 PM What is particularly concerning is the bit in the article where it is said that he was bombarding a 15 year old with texts That didn't unduly concern me because I assumed If the texts had been inproper the DM would have said so to add to their news value *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-11-05 7:47 PM Mmmm ... So by that reckoning tha's no way you could mistake a 30 year old man for a 15 year old boy Looks like that it is possible but the paper from the BDA says why it is not desirable to use dental x-rays to establish an asylum seekers age according to the rules which they have to follow and medical ethics, something I presumed you would know nothing about until you read about their views. Objections to the use of dental x-rays can’t be put down to the “wet hankies” as you put it. I doubt that even you suggest that we tie them down, force their mouths open to put a plate in and the expose them to radiation. The BDA paper deals with the obtaining consent. To require a person to consent to an invasive procedure and to take a refusal to give consent as somehow supportive of a finding that they are over 18 years is also problematic and they do not support it. I can see why, consent under a form of duress is no consent at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-11-06 8:59 AM antony1969 - 2018-11-05 7:47 PM Mmmm ... So by that reckoning tha's no way you could mistake a 30 year old man for a 15 year old boy Looks like that it is possible but the paper from the BDA says why it is not desirable to use dental x-rays to establish an asylum seekers age according to the rules which they have to follow and medical ethics, something I presumed you would know nothing about until you read about their views. Objections to the use of dental x-rays can’t be put down to the “wet hankies” as you put it. I doubt that even you suggest that we tie them down, force their mouths open to put a plate in and the expose them to radiation. The BDA paper deals with the obtaining consent. To require a person to consent to an invasive procedure and to take a refusal to give consent as somehow supportive of a finding that they are over 18 years is also problematic and they do not support it. I can see why, consent under a form of duress is no consent at all. So we allow middle aged migrants to just walk in to the UK? *-) ............ Because the wet hanky brigade have issues :-| ............ I reckon their gonna have even bigger issues further down the line, seeing what uncontrolled migration has done to London and our other cities 8-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-11-06 8:59 AM antony1969 - 2018-11-05 7:47 PM Mmmm ... So by that reckoning tha's no way you could mistake a 30 year old man for a 15 year old boy Looks like that it is possible but the paper from the BDA says why it is not desirable to use dental x-rays to establish an asylum seekers age according to the rules which they have to follow and medical ethics, something I presumed you would know nothing about until you read about their views. Objections to the use of dental x-rays can’t be put down to the “wet hankies” as you put it. I doubt that even you suggest that we tie them down, force their mouths open to put a plate in and the expose them to radiation. The BDA paper deals with the obtaining consent. To require a person to consent to an invasive procedure and to take a refusal to give consent as somehow supportive of a finding that they are over 18 years is also problematic and they do not support it. I can see why, consent under a form of duress is no consent at all. I don't think it "desireable" to have a 30 year old male posing as a 15 year pupil in our schools personally Veronica ... At least we've established it's quite easy to tell this fella isn't 15 Veronica and I didn't have to be an expert now did I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 We all know that we have people entering the UK in order to claim asylum and that some falsely claim to be children. Some of them are considered to be children and some are not and some qualify for asylum and some do not. I don’t know why you blame the “wet hanky brigade” for the problems associated with this type of migration or who deserves that epithet in your eyes Dave. Whatever you or Antony think this brigade is I don't think that the BDA can be accused of forming part of it. This thread is about the possible consequences of age assessments not being conducted correctly or missed out altogether. I have acknowledged that they are potentially serious. Whether current policy and practice is adequate to prevent adult males from other countries attending mixed schools is rightly subject to scrutiny if it is shown that this is what happened in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-11-06 10:26 AM We all know that we have people entering the UK in order to claim asylum and that some falsely claim to be children. Some of them are considered to be children and some are not and some qualify for asylum and some do not. I don’t know why you blame the “wet hanky brigade” for the problems associated with this type of migration or who deserves that epithet in your eyes Dave. Whatever you or Antony think this brigade is I don't think that the BDA can be accused of forming part of it. This thread is about the possible consequences of age assessments not being conducted correctly or missed out altogether. I have acknowledged that they are potentially serious. Whether current policy and practice is adequate to prevent adult males from other countries attending mixed schools is rightly subject to scrutiny if it is shown that this is what happened in this instance. Clearly there is either a PC bias on the part of the authorities to allow this 30 year old to enter the classroom.........Or mind numbing stupidity *-) .......... My bets on both >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 I think you have good grounds to suspect something may have gone seriously wrong here but I wouldn’t say the report gives any inkling as to what exactly that was or why it happened Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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