Barryd999 Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Says it all really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Very Good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Two years too late for the last referendum - but might influence the result of another one ( if it happens ). :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Yep, fits my perspective. Well found. I especially enjoyed the William Rees-Mogg quote of him advocating a further vote after the negotiations were completed! Priceless. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 One of Stephen Fry's funniest :D .......... And almost....... Quite Interesting ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 malc d - 2018-12-01 3:00 PM Two years too late for the last referendum - but might influence the result of another one ( if it happens ). :-| Or as one observed "Two years too late. Those charlatans have to be made accountable for all the lies and deceit." I'm all for holding Brexiters to account not to mention the methods used by them to subvert democracy and the referendum result should be voided. I'm staggered UK Gov are still persisting in taking the country to hell in a handcart. Very good video though Brexit fanatics wouldn't manage more than a few seconds and just dismiss it as "propaganda fear". *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 2, 2018 Author Share Posted December 2, 2018 malc d - 2018-12-01 3:00 PM Two years too late for the last referendum - but might influence the result of another one ( if it happens ). :-| Well exactly. We voted on an idea two and a half years ago after a campaign full of myths lies and pure speculation. We have learned so much since then and are now better informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 All true. The question is, how the hell do we prevent a re-run of the myths, lies and speculation if there is a new referendum? Who can we hold to account, and how? I somehow don't see either main party stepping in to keep order, as both are split top to bottom, so would exacerbate their splits by doing so. Depressing, ain't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Double click error! :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-12-02 4:43 PM All true. The question is, how the hell do we prevent a re-run of the myths, lies and speculation if there is a new referendum? Who can we hold to account, and how? I somehow don't see either main party stepping in to keep order, as both are split top to bottom, so would exacerbate their splits by doing so. Depressing, ain't it? Nope......it's reality ;-) ......... Best put up and shut up.........and then you can tell us how wrong we were after 40+ years and have a referendum then >:-) .......... Seems fair to me B-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-02 4:47 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-12-02 4:43 PM All true. The question is, how the hell do we prevent a re-run of the myths, lies and speculation if there is a new referendum? Who can we hold to account, and how? I somehow don't see either main party stepping in to keep order, as both are split top to bottom, so would exacerbate their splits by doing so. Depressing, ain't it? Nope......it's reality ;-) ......... Best put up and shut up.........and then you can tell us how wrong we were after 40+ years and have a referendum then >:-) .......... Seems fair to me B-) ....... But I don't understand why you voted Brexit if you already knew it was the wrong answer. Seems daft to me! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 2, 2018 Author Share Posted December 2, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-12-02 4:43 PM All true. The question is, how the hell do we prevent a re-run of the myths, lies and speculation if there is a new referendum? Who can we hold to account, and how? I somehow don't see either main party stepping in to keep order, as both are split top to bottom, so would exacerbate their splits by doing so. Depressing, ain't it? It would seem to me that after two and a half years of this with pretty much every single pro Brexit myth from 2016 being blown out of the water it should be like shooting fish in a barrel but of course the Brexiteers will play the betrayal card as will the Brexit Press (although the Mail is lost to them now). I think they will also go for the political independence at any cost view rather than trying to con the public again into thinking we will be better off and there will be £350m for the NHS although amazingly there are still many who actually still believe that lie. I think it will be just as messy as the first time around but it has to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-12-02 1:02 PM We voted on an idea two and a half years ago after a campaign full of myths lies and pure speculation. We have learned so much since then and are now better informed. We certaimly have learned and become informed about just how controlling and manipulative the EU is and how they are not prepared to let us leave on any terms but theirs. You cant blame the EU for protecting their intetests but you can blamethe UK for not safeguarding our own long term interests I never have been much of a no deal advocate but a clean break and start again does now seem the best way forward for the UK. If we don't want to be shackled to and be held to ransom by the EU we have to break free now and reject their offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-12-02 4:43 PM All true. The question is, how the hell do we prevent a re-run of the myths, lies and speculation if there is a new referendum? Who can we hold to account, and how? I somehow don't see either main party stepping in to keep order, as both are split top to bottom, so would exacerbate their splits by doing so. Depressing, ain't it? Bib....how about punitive taxation, seizure of assets, enforced confinement to "island UK" which would end their freedom of movement for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-12-02 5:22 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-02 4:47 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-12-02 4:43 PM All true. The question is, how the hell do we prevent a re-run of the myths, lies and speculation if there is a new referendum? Who can we hold to account, and how? I somehow don't see either main party stepping in to keep order, as both are split top to bottom, so would exacerbate their splits by doing so. Depressing, ain't it? Nope......it's reality ;-) ......... Best put up and shut up.........and then you can tell us how wrong we were after 40+ years and have a referendum then >:-) .......... Seems fair to me B-) ....... But I don't understand why you voted Brexit if you already knew it was the wrong answer. Seems daft to me! :-D From what he's trotted out on here, neither did he quite know why. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Tracker - 2018-12-02 5:31 PM Barryd999 - 2018-12-02 1:02 PM We voted on an idea two and a half years ago after a campaign full of myths lies and pure speculation. We have learned so much since then and are now better informed. We certaimly have learned and become informed about just how controlling and manipulative the EU is and how they are not prepared to let us leave on any terms but theirs. You cant blame the EU for protecting their intetests but you can blamethe UK for not safeguarding our own long term interests I never have been much of a no deal advocate but a clean break and start again does now seem the best way forward for the UK. If we don't want to be shackled to and be held to ransom by the EU we have to break free now and reject their offer. I think you're overlooking and completely dismissing the huge amount EU membership has contributed to UK Richard, not only in funding either of which many have benefited from both large and small. Only today i was reading in my local parish magazine about some locals who'd raised £400 at a church event. A cash injection from the EU boosted that to £2500. This is just a small village of 4000....a mere speck yet still benefited. At the other end of the spectrum, medical research has benefited by a massive amount yet now some seem determined to turn their backs on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-12-02 5:22 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-02 4:47 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-12-02 4:43 PM All true. The question is, how the hell do we prevent a re-run of the myths, lies and speculation if there is a new referendum? Who can we hold to account, and how? I somehow don't see either main party stepping in to keep order, as both are split top to bottom, so would exacerbate their splits by doing so. Depressing, ain't it? Nope......it's reality ;-) ......... Best put up and shut up.........and then you can tell us how wrong we were after 40+ years and have a referendum then >:-) .......... Seems fair to me B-) ....... But I don't understand why you voted Brexit if you already knew it was the wrong answer. Seems daft to me! :-D Come back in 40 years Brian ;-) ...........and prove I was wrong >:-) ........ That's how long I had to wait *-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-12-02 6:01 PM I think you're overlooking and completely dismissing the huge amount EU membership has contributed to UK Richard, not only in funding either of which many have benefited from both large and small. Only today i was reading in my local parish magazine about some locals who'd raised £400 at a church event. A cash injection from the EU boosted that to £2500. This is just a small village of 4000....a mere speck yet still benefited. At the other end of the spectrum, medical research has benefited by a massive amount yet now some seem determined to turn their backs on that. You mean how much we benefited from the money WE GAVE TO THE EU (lol) (lol) (lol) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 One again BG you selectively quote something that, far from being unbiased, supports only you own view but that does not alter the stark fact that money flowing out of the UK every year far exceeds and always has money flowing in from the EU. Whether we as a nation would now be better off financally if we had never joined the EEC we will never know one way or t'other. Drama Queens will resort to anything to save their beloved Status Quo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Tracker - 2018-12-02 6:12 PM One again BG you selectively quote something that, far from being unbiased, supports only you own view but that does not alter the stark fact that money flowing out of the UK every year far exceeds and always has money flowing in from the EU. Whether we as a nation would now be better off financally if we had never joined the EEC we will never know one way or t'other. Drama Queens will resort to anything to save their beloved Status Quo! I just fail to see how the EU is "controlling and manipulative" which talking of 'drama queens', seems a tad over egging it! Would you prefer it was disorganised chaos lacking any sense of direction and leadership.....errr come to think of it, a bit like our current political situation? Percent we're roughly in line with Germany and France who are the two other major contributors in what we spend and receive. This is a very useful site; http://www.europarl.europa.eu/external/html/budgetataglance/default_en.html#united_kingdom Finance apart (which i meant to point out in the previous post), we risk losing access to Europol, the EAW and SIS 2 which holds a massive database on international criminals and terrorists. As a couple of posters on here are forever crowing about "foreign" criminals they believe only the EU 'imports' into UK, i would have thought this to be paramount in their interests but apparently not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-12-02 7:08 PM Tracker - 2018-12-02 6:12 PM One again BG you selectively quote something that, far from being unbiased, supports only you own view but that does not alter the stark fact that money flowing out of the UK every year far exceeds and always has money flowing in from the EU. Whether we as a nation would now be better off financally if we had never joined the EEC we will never know one way or t'other. Drama Queens will resort to anything to save their beloved Status Quo! I just fail to see how the EU is "controlling and manipulative" which talking of 'drama queens', seems a tad over egging it! Would you prefer it was disorganised chaos lacking any sense of direction and leadership.....errr come to think of it, a bit like our current political situation? Percent we're roughly in line with Germany and France who are the two other major contributors in what we spend and receive. This is a very useful site; http://www.europarl.europa.eu/external/html/budgetataglance/default_en.html#united_kingdom Finance apart (which i meant to point out in the previous post), we risk losing access to Europol, the EAW and SIS 2 which holds a massive database on international criminals and terrorists. As a couple of posters on here are forever crowing about "foreign" criminals they believe only the EU 'imports' into UK, i would have thought this to be paramount in their interests but apparently not. You can have all the data and intel on those suspected of being possible terrorists you like but if you dont act on it like The Muslim Manchester bomber who attacked innocent kids in the name of Allah then its aint worth a God damn thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-12-02 7:08 PM Finance apart (which i meant to point out in the previous post), we risk losing access to Europol, the EAW and SIS 2 which holds a massive database on international criminals and terrorists. As a couple of posters on here are forever crowing about "foreign" criminals they believe only the EU 'imports' into UK, i would have thought this to be paramount in their interests but apparently not. Another red herring, these are issues that need not be issues if the EU were serious about maintaining links with the UK without being a control freak. Why does any nation have to be a member of anything to cooperate with any other nation regarding security and law enforcement that affect both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-12-02 7:08 PM Percent we're roughly in line with Germany and France who are the two other major contributors in what we spend and receive. This is a very useful site; http://www.europarl.europa.eu/external/html/budgetataglance/default_en.html#united_kingdom Conveniently you forget that the EU is run by the Fourth Reich ;-) ....... But as you are a Left wing Socialist I'm not surprised >:-) ......... You are never very far from your right wing *-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Tracker - 2018-12-02 7:17 PM Bulletguy - 2018-12-02 7:08 PM Finance apart (which i meant to point out in the previous post), we risk losing access to Europol, the EAW and SIS 2 which holds a massive database on international criminals and terrorists. As a couple of posters on here are forever crowing about "foreign" criminals they believe only the EU 'imports' into UK, i would have thought this to be paramount in their interests but apparently not. Another red herring, these are issues that need not be issues if the EU were serious about maintaining links with the UK without being a control freak. Why does any nation have to be a member of anything to cooperate with any other nation regarding security and law enforcement that affect both? Its typical scaremongering trot Rich ... The UK works closely with many countries inside and outside of the EU regarding terrorism , in fact we are one of the world leaders so why would the EU seriously not want to keep the UK on board ... Utter rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-12-02 7:25 PM Tracker - 2018-12-02 7:17 PM Bulletguy - 2018-12-02 7:08 PM Finance apart (which i meant to point out in the previous post), we risk losing access to Europol, the EAW and SIS 2 which holds a massive database on international criminals and terrorists. As a couple of posters on here are forever crowing about "foreign" criminals they believe only the EU 'imports' into UK, i would have thought this to be paramount in their interests but apparently not. Another red herring, these are issues that need not be issues if the EU were serious about maintaining links with the UK without being a control freak. Why does any nation have to be a member of anything to cooperate with any other nation regarding security and law enforcement that affect both? Its typical scaremongering trot Rich ... The UK works closely with many countries inside and outside of the EU regarding terrorism , in fact we are one of the world leaders so why would the EU seriously not want to keep the UK on board ... Utter rubbish Where do they get there info from?.......GCHQ ;-) ......... Europe has always needed a special kind of anorak :D ......... They hang it on a Island to the left of Europe >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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