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Germany and Covid ...


Birdbrain

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Like Pelmethead you have failed English comprehension again.

 

"we could see another half a million Covid-19 deaths in Europe and Central Asia by February,” warned Hans Kluge, the WHO’s regional director for Europe."

 

When WHO talks of Europe they mean the continent. And as you can see the UK is contributing to WHO's worries.

 

https://who.maps.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/10a2438e6e2e4092a8e02772c42f0f2b#ext=30,25,70,70

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CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-06 8:05 PM

 

Like Pelmethead you have failed English comprehension again.

 

"we could see another half a million Covid-19 deaths in Europe and Central Asia by February,” warned Hans Kluge, the WHO’s regional director for Europe."

 

When WHO talks of Europe they mean the continent. And as you can see the UK is contributing to WHO's worries.

 

https://who.maps.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/10a2438e6e2e4092a8e02772c42f0f2b#ext=30,25,70,70

 

Sorry Pumpkin ... I didn't read beyond the first bit "A fourth wave of coronavirus is in full force, Germanys health minister has warned after a 55% rise in cases over the past month" ... I must read more from now on ... SFH

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Also from Antony's WHO/Sky source above.

Germany: 281.1 cases per 100,000 in last two weeks. From the same source, on the same basis, the figures for other countries are:

57.3 Spain

93.5 Italy

110 Portugal

116.7 France

160.3 Austria

211 Switzerland

349.2 Denmark

510.8 Holland

707.2 Belgium

982.4 United Kingdom

So, why highlight Germany, whose incidence of Covid over the past two weeks is about mid-scale? Why not comment on UK, with the highest of all, or Spain, which now has the lowest, or just that Covid is still very much around across Europe (geographical Europe, not political Europe - Covid doesn't "do" frontiers) - which those o us who have been paying attention already know.

 

So again, with regret, I ask: what was the point?

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Brian Kirby - 2021-11-07 8:29 AM

 

Also from Antony's WHO/Sky source above.

Germany: 281.1 cases per 100,000 in last two weeks. From the same source, on the same basis, the figures for other countries are:

57.3 Spain

93.5 Italy

110 Portugal

116.7 France

160.3 Austria

211 Switzerland

349.2 Denmark

510.8 Holland

707.2 Belgium

982.4 United Kingdom

So, why highlight Germany, whose incidence of Covid over the past two weeks is about mid-scale? Why not comment on UK, with the highest of all, or Spain, which now has the lowest, or just that Covid is still very much around across Europe (geographical Europe, not political Europe - Covid doesn't "do" frontiers) - which those o us who have been paying attention already know.

 

So again, with regret, I ask: what was the point?

 

Those figures are shocking especially when you consider we are now heading into winter. The Tories have just done what they always wanted to do, let it rip and "see what happens". Even here which was covid free more or less for months its rife. Barnard castle which is now a major tourist attraction for all the wrong reasons had two or three cases before it got famous. Now following a bumper tourist season along with the dropping of pretty much all restrictions the levels of infection are many times what they were.

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Birdbrain - 2021-11-06 7:56 PM

 

... Looks like Brexit/Tories/UKIP/Nigel/Anyone/Daily Mail has give Germany a bit of a headache ... https://news.sky.com/story/covid-fourth-wave-in-full-force-in-germany-as-who-warns-europe-is-back-at-epicentre-12460514

 

I'm glad I live in a country where the infection rates are dropping as we head into winter ;-) ..........

 

I suspect he EU are going to regret their earlier penny pinching which lead to delays in their vaccine roll out *-) ........

 

No doubt our resident 5th Columnists will carryon making excuses for the EU's incompetence ;-).........

 

 

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pelmetman - 2021-11-07 9:01 AM

 

Birdbrain - 2021-11-06 7:56 PM

 

... Looks like Brexit/Tories/UKIP/Nigel/Anyone/Daily Mail has give Germany a bit of a headache ... https://news.sky.com/story/covid-fourth-wave-in-full-force-in-germany-as-who-warns-europe-is-back-at-epicentre-12460514

 

I'm glad I live in a country where the infection rates are dropping as we head into winter ;-) ..........

 

I suspect he EU are going to regret their earlier penny pinching which lead to delays in their vaccine roll out *-) ........

 

No doubt our resident 5th Columnists will carryon making excuses for the EU's incompetence ;-).........

 

 

That's a sweeping statement, shame you haven't got statistics to support it.

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pelmetman - 2021-11-07 9:01 AM

Birdbrain - 2021-11-06 7:56 PM

... Looks like Brexit/Tories/UKIP/Nigel/Anyone/Daily Mail has give Germany a bit of a headache ... https://news.sky.com/story/covid-fourth-wave-in-full-force-in-germany-as-who-warns-europe-is-back-at-epicentre-12460514

I'm glad I live in a country where the infection rates are dropping as we head into winter ;-) ..........

I suspect he EU are going to regret their earlier penny pinching which lead to delays in their vaccine roll out *-) ........

No doubt our resident 5th Columnists will carryon making excuses for the EU's incompetence ;-).........

Dave, as you still seem to think that the EU administers Covid vaccines, can you explain the differences in infection rates per 100k population between Spain (lowest) and Belgium - at over 12 times the Spanish rate?

 

One would imagine that the other countries would blame the EU for their plights, if they thought the EU was responsible. So it seems a bit strange that those with worse infection rates than Spain aren't demanding the EU gets its act together, don't you think?

 

But then Switzerland (at 211 per 100K, just under 4 times Spain's rate - and just under 1/5th the UK rate) is surrounded by, but isn't in, the EU, so can't have been affected by anything the EU did/didn't do. How could that happen?

 

You also seem not to have noticed that the UK rate is over 17 times higher than Spain's. As you're a flag hugger, and live here, I'd have thought that would be your prime concern - not the EU, of which we are no longer a member.

 

Are you perhaps supposing the EU has made special arrangements for vaccine supply and administration just with Spain - because they are so concerned that you might not go back if they don't get the Spanish rate down? :-D Confused it is that I am! (lol) (lol) (lol)

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CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-07 9:35 AM

 

pelmetman - 2021-11-07 9:01 AM

 

Birdbrain - 2021-11-06 7:56 PM

 

... Looks like Brexit/Tories/UKIP/Nigel/Anyone/Daily Mail has give Germany a bit of a headache ... https://news.sky.com/story/covid-fourth-wave-in-full-force-in-germany-as-who-warns-europe-is-back-at-epicentre-12460514

 

I'm glad I live in a country where the infection rates are dropping as we head into winter ;-) ..........

 

I suspect he EU are going to regret their earlier penny pinching which lead to delays in their vaccine roll out *-) ........

 

No doubt our resident 5th Columnists will carryon making excuses for the EU's incompetence ;-).........

 

 

That's a sweeping statement, shame you haven't got statistics to support it.

 

 

 

It gives me the impression that Dave has no idea what a 5th columnist is.

 

;-)

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pelmetman - 2021-11-07 10:01 AM

 

I'm glad I live in a country where the infection rates are dropping as we head into winter ;-) ..........

 

I suspect he EU are going to regret their earlier penny pinching which lead to delays in their vaccine roll out *-) ........

 

No doubt our resident 5th Columnists will carryon making excuses for the EU's incompetence ;-).........

 

 

Delays ?

Incompetence ?

Disinfect your fingers before using them to type nonsense on a keyboard.

 

Poor guy.

Remember when you made fun of Italy for the supposed delay in vaccinations ?

At that time you were still waiting for the second AZ while my wife and I already got the second Pfizer.

By the way, I have already had the Pfizer "booster" third dose and my wife will have it within a few days. Already booked.

 

Pelmet, your when?

Oxford or something really effective ?

In the meantime I suggest that you wear a face mask.

 

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Brian Kirby - 2021-11-07 8:29 AM

 

Also from Antony's WHO/Sky source above.

Germany: 281.1 cases per 100,000 in last two weeks. From the same source, on the same basis, the figures for other countries are:

57.3 Spain

93.5 Italy

110 Portugal

116.7 France

160.3 Austria

211 Switzerland

349.2 Denmark

510.8 Holland

707.2 Belgium

982.4 United Kingdom

So, why highlight Germany, whose incidence of Covid over the past two weeks is about mid-scale? Why not comment on UK, with the highest of all, or Spain, which now has the lowest, or just that Covid is still very much around across Europe (geographical Europe, not political Europe - Covid doesn't "do" frontiers) - which those o us who have been paying attention already know.

 

So again, with regret, I ask: what was the point?

Because the twins have always been desperate to deflect from the mess this country has ended up in and Johnsons atrocious handling of the pandemic from day one.

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Birdbrain - 2021-11-07 1:38 PM

 

Only seems like a couple of weeks ago the sisters were praising Germans for behaving responsibly through covid and listening to their governments advice ... One has to ask if thats so whats going Pete Tong

 

But from Brians list above Germany are well down on the number of infections per 100000 compared to the UK. As also said why are we not "all" concerned about how badly we and island state are performing and have performed since day 1?

 

Its bonkers pointing the finger at other countries and bizarrely in Daves case the EU. Its like shouting "oooh look there is a cigarette burning on the floor over there" while behind you your own house is fully ablaze.

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Guest pelmetman
Barryd999 - 2021-11-07 1:47 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2021-11-07 1:38 PM

 

Only seems like a couple of weeks ago the sisters were praising Germans for behaving responsibly through covid and listening to their governments advice ... One has to ask if thats so whats going Pete Tong

 

But from Brians list above Germany are well down on the number of infections per 100000 compared to the UK. As also said why are we not "all" concerned about how badly we and island state are performing and have performed since day 1?

 

Its bonkers pointing the finger at other countries and bizarrely in Daves case the EU. Its like shouting "oooh look there is a cigarette burning on the floor over there" while behind you your own house is fully ablaze.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

Click on the serious critical :-| .........

 

It gives a clearer view of the real infection rates 8-) ........

 

Germany is entering the winter with double the number we have, along with increasing infection rates where as ours are stable or dropping.........Perhaps they should have got a sh1te test & trace system like the UK? ;-) .............

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Brian Kirby - 2021-11-07 11:37 AM

 

pelmetman - 2021-11-07 9:01 AM

Birdbrain - 2021-11-06 7:56 PM

... Looks like Brexit/Tories/UKIP/Nigel/Anyone/Daily Mail has give Germany a bit of a headache ... https://news.sky.com/story/covid-fourth-wave-in-full-force-in-germany-as-who-warns-europe-is-back-at-epicentre-12460514

I'm glad I live in a country where the infection rates are dropping as we head into winter ;-) ..........

I suspect he EU are going to regret their earlier penny pinching which lead to delays in their vaccine roll out *-) ........

No doubt our resident 5th Columnists will carryon making excuses for the EU's incompetence ;-).........

Dave, as you still seem to think that the EU administers Covid vaccines, can you explain the differences in infection rates per 100k population between Spain (lowest) and Belgium - at over 12 times the Spanish rate?

 

One would imagine that the other countries would blame the EU for their plights, if they thought the EU was responsible. So it seems a bit strange that those with worse infection rates than Spain aren't demanding the EU gets its act together, don't you think?

 

But then Switzerland (at 211 per 100K, just under 4 times Spain's rate - and just under 1/5th the UK rate) is surrounded by, but isn't in, the EU, so can't have been affected by anything the EU did/didn't do. How could that happen?

 

You also seem not to have noticed that the UK rate is over 17 times higher than Spain's. As you're a flag hugger, and live here, I'd have thought that would be your prime concern - not the EU, of which we are no longer a member.

 

Are you perhaps supposing the EU has made special arrangements for vaccine supply and administration just with Spain - because they are so concerned that you might not go back if they don't get the Spanish rate down? :-D Confused it is that I am! (lol) (lol) (lol)

Neither have an answer to either of your questions Brian.

 

It's either proved too difficult for them to cope with, or too awkward. :-|

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Guest pelmetman
pelmetman - 2021-11-07 5:45 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2021-11-07 1:47 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2021-11-07 1:38 PM

 

Only seems like a couple of weeks ago the sisters were praising Germans for behaving responsibly through covid and listening to their governments advice ... One has to ask if thats so whats going Pete Tong

 

But from Brians list above Germany are well down on the number of infections per 100000 compared to the UK. As also said why are we not "all" concerned about how badly we and island state are performing and have performed since day 1?

 

Its bonkers pointing the finger at other countries and bizarrely in Daves case the EU. Its like shouting "oooh look there is a cigarette burning on the floor over there" while behind you your own house is fully ablaze.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

Click on the serious critical :-| .........

 

It gives a clearer view of the real infection rates 8-) ........

 

Germany is entering the winter with double the number we have, along with increasing infection rates where as ours are stable or dropping.........Perhaps they should have got a sh1te test & trace system like the UK? ;-) .............

 

Bump........Just sayin......

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But that is different information from a different source. I used the same source (the World Health Organisation) as Antony, because it was what he had based his post upon.

 

However, if you insert the New cases/1M pop column into the Worldometer table (so that population is taken into account in the numbers, and not just the number of reported cases) you don't get the same rosy view.

 

BTW, I don't agree that sorting on Serious/Critical cases gives "clearer view of the real infection rates". That information is even more of a lagging indicator, because the case first has to be confirmed (taking on average a week or so following infection), and then has to progress from being confirmed, to becoming a serious or critical - which takes on average a further couple of weeks or so, so the Serious/Critical case numbers reflect infections acquired three or more weeks ago.

 

It is from the present pool of confirmed cases that, unfortunately, those to be confirmed Serious/Critical will emerge.

 

The same is true for the deaths, which lag even further behind the confirmed cases.

 

So yes, the number of new infections in UK has dropped over the past couple of weeks, largely attributed to a lull in infection during the school half term, but the schools are now back, and epidemiologists are anticipating an uptick in infection rates for that reason.

 

If you compare comparably developed European countries, the UK is better off than Austria, Belgium and the Netherlands, but worse off than Germany, Norway, France, Italy, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland and even, although less developed overall, Russia.

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Guest pelmetman
Brian Kirby - 2021-11-07 7:17 PM

 

BTW, I don't agree that sorting on Serious/Critical cases gives "clearer view of the real infection rates". That information is even more of a lagging indicator,

 

Rubbish.......There's no better indicator of real infection rates *-) ........

 

As those in intensive care aren't fudging the figures for polictical reasons :-| ......

 

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pelmetman - 2021-11-07 7:41 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2021-11-07 7:17 PM

 

BTW, I don't agree that sorting on Serious/Critical cases gives "clearer view of the real infection rates". That information is even more of a lagging indicator,

 

Rubbish.......There's no better indicator of real infection rates *-) ........

 

As those in intensive care aren't fudging the figures for polictical reasons :-| ......

 

Its almost as if Germany can declare more serious cases as they have the ICU beds to treat them, whereas here in the UK you die before you are declared a serious case. How else can you explain the disconnect between the relative numbers of serious cases that turn into deaths?

 

"“The UK is towards the bottom of the European league table for intensive care beds per head of population. Whilst the UK has 7.3 intensive care beds per 100,000 people, Germany has 33.8 and the USA 34.3. We also have comparatively fewer than France, Italy, Australia and Spain.”" Kings Fund.

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Guest pelmetman
CurtainRaiser - 2021-11-07 8:14 PM

 

pelmetman - 2021-11-07 7:41 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2021-11-07 7:17 PM

 

BTW, I don't agree that sorting on Serious/Critical cases gives "clearer view of the real infection rates". That information is even more of a lagging indicator,

 

Rubbish.......There's no better indicator of real infection rates *-) ........

 

As those in intensive care aren't fudging the figures for polictical reasons :-| ......

 

Its almost as if Germany can declare more serious cases as they have the ICU beds to treat them, whereas here in the UK you die before you are declared a serious case. How else can you explain the disconnect between the relative numbers of serious cases that turn into deaths?

 

"“The UK is towards the bottom of the European league table for intensive care beds per head of population. Whilst the UK has 7.3 intensive care beds per 100,000 people, Germany has 33.8 and the USA 34.3. We also have comparatively fewer than France, Italy, Australia and Spain.”" Kings Fund.

 

Its almost as if you are grasping at straws *-) ...........

 

Worra silly Chimp :-| .......

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As I suggested above, every single ambulance trust is on black alert.

 

That is why our "serious" cases are less than Germany, because we don't have similar numbers ambulances or ICU beds as Germany. Patients are literally dying at home waiting for ambulances. The ambulances are parked up at A&E but cannot not unload passengers because there are no ICU beds free.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/ambulance-nhs-patients-dying-paramedics-b1952277.html

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pelmetman - 2021-11-07 7:41 PM

Brian Kirby - 2021-11-07 7:17 PM

BTW, I don't agree that sorting on Serious/Critical cases gives "clearer view of the real infection rates". That information is even more of a lagging indicator,

Rubbish.......There's no better indicator of real infection rates *-) ........

As those in intensive care aren't fudging the figures for polictical reasons :-| ......

Nope, not rubbish at all. We have a fairly high comparative rate of vaccination in UK, so it follows that (so long as the prevalent Covid strain doesn't mutate to circumvent the vaccines, and the immunity it gives persists) we should have, on average, lower rates of critical cases than countries with lower vaccination rates. To do otherwise, as you suggest compares apples with pomegranites.

 

The serious/critical rates also ignore all those cases which are confirmed, but recover without (presumably) hospital or ICU admission, whether vaccinated or not. You are also selecting data that reflects levels of infection several weeks ago, whereas the numbers of confirmed infections are current, and reflect the size of the pool of infection from which the more serious/critical cases will arise in due course.

 

The danger, at population level, arises from the total number of confirmed infections per unit of population, because, together with the asymptomatic (so undetected) cases that accompany them, this gives a better idea of how many infected people there are - who then have the potential to infect others.

 

That is why the number per 100,000 of population is more significant than the total number infected, whether mild, serious, or critical.

 

What we need to know is how great is the risk - to us - of infection. Those who are hospitalised, or in ICU, are isolated and present a minimal risk of infecting others (apart from the medical staff caring for them, who are closely monitored).

 

As for fudging for political reasons, who is doing that (apart from you)?

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Guest pelmetman
Brian Kirby - 2021-11-08 11:14 AM

 

pelmetman - 2021-11-07 7:41 PM

Brian Kirby - 2021-11-07 7:17 PM

BTW, I don't agree that sorting on Serious/Critical cases gives "clearer view of the real infection rates". That information is even more of a lagging indicator,

Rubbish.......There's no better indicator of real infection rates *-) ........

As those in intensive care aren't fudging the figures for polictical reasons :-| ......

Nope, not rubbish at all. We have a fairly high comparative rate of vaccination in UK, so it follows that (so long as the prevalent Covid strain doesn't mutate to circumvent the vaccines, and the immunity it gives persists) we should have, on average, lower rates of critical cases than countries with lower vaccination rates. To do otherwise, as you suggest compares apples with pomegranites.

 

The serious/critical rates also ignore all those cases which are confirmed, but recover without (presumably) hospital or ICU admission, whether vaccinated or not. You are also selecting data that reflects levels of infection several weeks ago, whereas the numbers of confirmed infections are current, and reflect the size of the pool of infection from which the more serious/critical cases will arise in due course.

 

The danger, at population level, arises from the total number of confirmed infections per unit of population, because, together with the asymptomatic (so undetected) cases that accompany them, this gives a better idea of how many infected people there are - who then have the potential to infect others.

 

That is why the number per 100,000 of population is more significant than the total number infected, whether mild, serious, or critical.

 

What we need to know is how great is the risk - to us - of infection. Those who are hospitalised, or in ICU, are isolated and present a minimal risk of infecting others (apart from the medical staff caring for them, who are closely monitored).

 

As for fudging for political reasons, who is doing that (apart from you)?

 

Looks to be like the wheels have fallen off the vorsprung durch technik COVID wagon :-| ..........

 

"The previous record rate of 197.6 was set on December 22, 2020 — a time before vaccines were widely available."

 

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-covid-incidence-rate-jumps-to-over-200-for-first-time/a-59750534

 

You'd think if they had "actually" managed the Pandemic better, their infection rates would NOT be worse than they were when they had the first wave? *-) ..........

 

So whats their excuse Brian?........

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