StuartO Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 This morning it's been Phillip Hammond, yesterday Michael Heseltine, arguing that the public didn't vote specifically for a No Deal Brexit in 2016 so there is no mandate for it. But the public did vote for Brexit, without qualification, leaving it to Parliament to impliment it - so why do these Has Beens have to keep sticking their spanner in the works? Blocking no deal (if that way out proves necessary) is an underhand way of blocking Brexit itself - and of course undermining the negotiating position of the new Government indefinitely. We need leadership and resolution to get us out of this stalemate, not spanners in the works yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 "leaving it to Parliament to impliment it" - Hammond is sticking his oar in because Johnson and Co are trying to bypass parliament. You want parliamentary sovereignty - this is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 StuartO - 2019-08-14 10:06 AM We need leadership and resolution to get us out of this stalemate, not spanners in the works yet again. How would leaving with no deal get us out of this stalemate? We have to make a deal at some point. Do you think we will get a better deal when our imports and exports are blocked and we are no longer a EU member? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 StuartO - 2019-08-14 10:06 AM This morning it's been Phillip Hammond, yesterday Michael Heseltine, arguing that the public didn't vote specifically for a No Deal Brexit in 2016 so there is no mandate for it. Those most affected by Brexit weren't old enough to vote then but they are now. And those who did vote voted for was what the Brexiters promised. Rather than forcing through a no-deal Brexit before the Tories get voted out (like they did their botched rail privatisation).... Whats wrong with having a vote now the situation has become clearer and many more people qualify to vote? (Apart from they might not vote the way Brexiteers want) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 StuartO - 2019-08-14 10:06 AM This morning it's been Phillip Hammond, yesterday Michael Heseltine, arguing that the public didn't vote specifically for a No Deal Brexit in 2016 so there is no mandate for it. But the public did vote for Brexit, without qualification, leaving it to Parliament to impliment it - so why do these Has Beens have to keep sticking their spanner in the works? Blocking no deal (if that way out proves necessary) is an underhand way of blocking Brexit itself - and of course undermining the negotiating position of the new Government indefinitely. We need leadership and resolution to get us out of this stalemate, not spanners in the works yet again. Most of us with an ounce of common sense would agree with that sentiment Stuart, but may I respectfully suggest that, other than as a wind up, posting it on this forum will predictably only attract the kind of predictable snowflake responses that it has. I sat on the fence over Brexit for a long time but now the more I see of the EU and their attitudes the less I like it and the sooner we are out the better. No doubt the snowflakes will return to tell me how wrong I am, but I ain't listening, so please do go ahead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 "So if you and I are in a club, and there are 28 members of the club, and I decided to leave, why would I get preferential treatment? Doesn’t make any sense. And if Ireland is a member of that club, and me leaving undermines their whole set-up and the peace they have, it doesn’t make any sense, and it’s not equitable or fair, and it’s because the whole thing was sold on a bunch of misinformation" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Hammond and Heseltine should butt out now I Reckon. Let them get on with it. Ive stopped campaigning for a peoples vote. Im not going to be held in anyway responsible for us not leaving now. All I ever wanted was a vote on the final deal which is after all what Mr Rees Mogg said would be a good idea once upon a time and a few others but they should call Boris's bluff now. Lets see if he and his cabinet of Death eaters really have the gonads to do it and lets not give them or the Brexiteers the opportunity to blame anyone for foiling their ridiculous plans. Im convinced thats what Boris is counting on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 StuartO - 2019-08-14 10:06 AM This morning it's been Phillip Hammond, yesterday Michael Heseltine, arguing that the public didn't vote specifically for a No Deal Brexit in 2016 so there is no mandate for it. and of course undermining the negotiating position of the new Government indefinitely. And please tell, how they are undermining our negotiating position in talks which do not exist due to the stance that Johnson and co have adopted in refusing to enter talks with the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 John52 - 2019-08-14 10:59 AM StuartO - 2019-08-14 10:06 AM We need leadership and resolution to get us out of this stalemate, not spanners in the works yet again. How would leaving with no deal get us out of this stalemate? We have to make a deal at some point. Do you think we will get a better deal when our imports and exports are blocked and we are no longer a EU member? The only deal on the table is Theresa Mays deal. Have you ever bothered to have a good look at the terms of it? If that is the yardstick then we are far better off leaving with no deal and then negotiating with the EU. Some WTO terms are not good for certain industries (like farming) but new Markets will be sought and in a short time we will be a lot better off than with Theresas godawful deal. And we will be truly independant of the EU, the only agreements will be mutual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 https://leave.eu/get-philip-hammond-deselected/ >:-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 747 - 2019-08-14 1:54 PM John52 - 2019-08-14 10:59 AM StuartO - 2019-08-14 10:06 AM We need leadership and resolution to get us out of this stalemate, not spanners in the works yet again. How would leaving with no deal get us out of this stalemate? We have to make a deal at some point. Do you think we will get a better deal when our imports and exports are blocked and we are no longer a EU member? The only deal on the table is Theresa Mays deal. Have you ever bothered to have a good look at the terms of it? If that is the yardstick then we are far better off leaving with no deal and then negotiating with the EU. Some WTO terms are not good for certain industries (like farming) but new Markets will be sought and in a short time we will be a lot better off than with Theresas godawful deal. And we will be truly independant of the EU, the only agreements will be mutual. The deal is s**t I agree at least compared to what we have now but it will still have to be signed even after we leave if we want to trade. There is no getting away from it it seems unless you want to commit economic suicide. We were told the minute we leave we hold all the cards but that's s**te as we now know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 6:46 PM The deal is s**t I agree So you agree......No Deal is better than a Bad Deal? >:-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-14 9:21 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 6:46 PM The deal is s**t I agree So you agree......No Deal is better than a Bad Deal? >:-) .......... No Dave. The deal is s**t but no deal is worse. What you have not realised yet is that the deal will have to be signed even if we leave with no deal at some point in the very near future after Oct 31 (assuming we leave). The best deal by a country mile is the one we have now, the best thing we can do is remain and admit we fcuked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 I disagree Barry. The deal has not been ratified by both parties. It was put to Parliament several times and rejected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 747 - 2019-08-14 11:48 PM I disagree Barry. The deal has not been ratified by both parties. It was put to Parliament several times and rejected. Yes Parliament rejected it for several reasons. The Brexiteers wont like any deal because it will never be the cake and eat it deal that was promised. They will never be happy. The remainers rejected it mainly because they thought there was still a chance to overturn Brexit completely but the cold hard facts are if we want to trade with the EU in the future they have said even if we leave with no deal we will pretty much have to sign the current WA in order to do that. So we can crash out and then let the chaos begin which I now think will be engineered to look like a slow puncture rather than a blow out by simply spaffing all our money at it to paper over the cracks but sooner or later we will have to eat humble pie with Europe from a much weaker position. USA wont save us either. There are many rumblings from congress that if we fcuk up the Irish border all bets are off. Basically we are fcuked now whatever happens. Better to just admit defeat and call it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 11:04 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-14 9:21 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 6:46 PM The deal is s**t I agree So you agree......No Deal is better than a Bad Deal? >:-) .......... No Dave. The deal is s**t but no deal is worse. What you have not realised yet is that the deal will have to be signed even if we leave with no deal at some point in the very near future after Oct 31 (assuming we leave). The best deal by a country mile is the one we have now, the best thing we can do is remain and admit we fcuked up. Still clinging to straws Barry ;-) .......... The EU has a clear choice, do they want to sell us more their stuff than they buy of ours or not? :-| ......... I cant say I'm bothered where my wine comes from :D ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-15 9:55 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 11:04 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-14 9:21 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 6:46 PM The deal is s**t I agree So you agree......No Deal is better than a Bad Deal? >:-) .......... No Dave. The deal is s**t but no deal is worse. What you have not realised yet is that the deal will have to be signed even if we leave with no deal at some point in the very near future after Oct 31 (assuming we leave). The best deal by a country mile is the one we have now, the best thing we can do is remain and admit we fcuked up. Still clinging to straws Barry ;-) .......... The EU has a clear choice, do they want to sell us more their stuff than they buy of ours or not? :-| ......... I cant say I'm bothered where my wine comes from :D ........... You still don't get it after all this time Dave. The EU does want to trade with us of course it does but it will not compromise it's single market and will put its member countries like Ireland first above all else. Basically we called their bluff when we said they need us more than we need them thinking we were so special we would get our cake and eat and clearly we have totally failed in doing that. One way or another we will end up eating humble pie now eventually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-15 11:06 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-15 9:55 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 11:04 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-14 9:21 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 6:46 PM The deal is s**t I agree So you agree......No Deal is better than a Bad Deal? >:-) .......... No Dave. The deal is s**t but no deal is worse. What you have not realised yet is that the deal will have to be signed even if we leave with no deal at some point in the very near future after Oct 31 (assuming we leave). The best deal by a country mile is the one we have now, the best thing we can do is remain and admit we fcuked up. Still clinging to straws Barry ;-) .......... The EU has a clear choice, do they want to sell us more their stuff than they buy of ours or not? :-| ......... I cant say I'm bothered where my wine comes from :D ........... You still don't get it after all this time Dave. The EU does want to trade with us of course it does but it will not compromise it's single market and will put its member countries like Ireland first above all else. Which is why they will want to do a trade deal with us ;-) ........... Because Boris has called their backstop bluff >:-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-15 11:27 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-15 11:06 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-15 9:55 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 11:04 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-14 9:21 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 6:46 PM The deal is s**t I agree So you agree......No Deal is better than a Bad Deal? >:-) .......... No Dave. The deal is s**t but no deal is worse. What you have not realised yet is that the deal will have to be signed even if we leave with no deal at some point in the very near future after Oct 31 (assuming we leave). The best deal by a country mile is the one we have now, the best thing we can do is remain and admit we fcuked up. Still clinging to straws Barry ;-) .......... The EU has a clear choice, do they want to sell us more their stuff than they buy of ours or not? :-| ......... I cant say I'm bothered where my wine comes from :D ........... You still don't get it after all this time Dave. The EU does want to trade with us of course it does but it will not compromise it's single market and will put its member countries like Ireland first above all else. Which is why they will want to do a trade deal with us ;-) ........... Because Boris has called their backstop bluff >:-) ........... The backstop was our idea Dave. Boris and the Brexiteers were adamant they could solve the Irish border easily with technology so why are they so worried about the backstop anyway? Boris may be pretending to call their bluff but he knows full well they wont budge and I dont blame them. Has he got the gonads to go no deal though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-15 1:27 PM Has he got the gonads to go no deal though? He'll be an ex PM if he hasn't ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-15 1:27 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-15 11:27 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-15 11:06 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-15 9:55 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 11:04 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-14 9:21 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 6:46 PM The deal is s**t I agree So you agree......No Deal is better than a Bad Deal? >:-) .......... No Dave. The deal is s**t but no deal is worse. What you have not realised yet is that the deal will have to be signed even if we leave with no deal at some point in the very near future after Oct 31 (assuming we leave). The best deal by a country mile is the one we have now, the best thing we can do is remain and admit we fcuked up. Still clinging to straws Barry ;-) .......... The EU has a clear choice, do they want to sell us more their stuff than they buy of ours or not? :-| ......... I cant say I'm bothered where my wine comes from :D ........... You still don't get it after all this time Dave. The EU does want to trade with us of course it does but it will not compromise it's single market and will put its member countries like Ireland first above all else. Which is why they will want to do a trade deal with us ;-) ........... Because Boris has called their backstop bluff >:-) ........... The backstop was our idea Dave. Boris and the Brexiteers were adamant they could solve the Irish border easily with technology so why are they so worried about the backstop anyway? Boris may be pretending to call their bluff but he knows full well they wont budge and I dont blame them. Has he got the gonads to go no deal though? Mmm ... I may be wrong but as I believed it the option in the joint report in keeping NI in the customs union was very much an EU idea wasn't it ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-08-15 2:27 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-15 1:27 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-15 11:27 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-15 11:06 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-15 9:55 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 11:04 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-14 9:21 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 6:46 PM The deal is s**t I agree So you agree......No Deal is better than a Bad Deal? >:-) .......... No Dave. The deal is s**t but no deal is worse. What you have not realised yet is that the deal will have to be signed even if we leave with no deal at some point in the very near future after Oct 31 (assuming we leave). The best deal by a country mile is the one we have now, the best thing we can do is remain and admit we fcuked up. Still clinging to straws Barry ;-) .......... The EU has a clear choice, do they want to sell us more their stuff than they buy of ours or not? :-| ......... I cant say I'm bothered where my wine comes from :D ........... You still don't get it after all this time Dave. The EU does want to trade with us of course it does but it will not compromise it's single market and will put its member countries like Ireland first above all else. Which is why they will want to do a trade deal with us ;-) ........... Because Boris has called their backstop bluff >:-) ........... The backstop was our idea Dave. Boris and the Brexiteers were adamant they could solve the Irish border easily with technology so why are they so worried about the backstop anyway? Boris may be pretending to call their bluff but he knows full well they wont budge and I dont blame them. Has he got the gonads to go no deal though? Mmm ... I may be wrong but as I believed it the option in the joint report in keeping NI in the customs union was very much an EU idea wasn't it ??? No it was Theresas team that came up with it I believe. Doesnt matter anyway its non negotiable if we want to leave with a deal but like I said, if they are so confident in finding a solution why are they so worried about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-08-15 2:27 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-15 1:27 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-15 11:27 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-15 11:06 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-15 9:55 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 11:04 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-14 9:21 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 6:46 PM The deal is s**t I agree So you agree......No Deal is better than a Bad Deal? >:-) .......... No Dave. The deal is s**t but no deal is worse. What you have not realised yet is that the deal will have to be signed even if we leave with no deal at some point in the very near future after Oct 31 (assuming we leave). The best deal by a country mile is the one we have now, the best thing we can do is remain and admit we fcuked up. Still clinging to straws Barry ;-) .......... The EU has a clear choice, do they want to sell us more their stuff than they buy of ours or not? :-| ......... I cant say I'm bothered where my wine comes from :D ........... You still don't get it after all this time Dave. The EU does want to trade with us of course it does but it will not compromise it's single market and will put its member countries like Ireland first above all else. Which is why they will want to do a trade deal with us ;-) ........... Because Boris has called their backstop bluff >:-) ........... The backstop was our idea Dave. Boris and the Brexiteers were adamant they could solve the Irish border easily with technology so why are they so worried about the backstop anyway? Boris may be pretending to call their bluff but he knows full well they wont budge and I dont blame them. Has he got the gonads to go no deal though? Mmm ... I may be wrong but as I believed it the option in the joint report in keeping NI in the customs union was very much an EU idea wasn't it ??? No it was Theresas team that came up with it I believe. Doesnt matter anyway its non negotiable if we want to leave with a deal but like I said, if they are so confident in finding a solution why are they so worried about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-15 3:45 PM Birdbrain - 2019-08-15 2:27 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-15 1:27 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-15 11:27 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-15 11:06 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-15 9:55 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 11:04 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-14 9:21 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-14 6:46 PM The deal is s**t I agree So you agree......No Deal is better than a Bad Deal? >:-) .......... No Dave. The deal is s**t but no deal is worse. What you have not realised yet is that the deal will have to be signed even if we leave with no deal at some point in the very near future after Oct 31 (assuming we leave). The best deal by a country mile is the one we have now, the best thing we can do is remain and admit we fcuked up. Still clinging to straws Barry ;-) .......... The EU has a clear choice, do they want to sell us more their stuff than they buy of ours or not? :-| ......... I cant say I'm bothered where my wine comes from :D ........... You still don't get it after all this time Dave. The EU does want to trade with us of course it does but it will not compromise it's single market and will put its member countries like Ireland first above all else. Which is why they will want to do a trade deal with us ;-) ........... Because Boris has called their backstop bluff >:-) ........... The backstop was our idea Dave. Boris and the Brexiteers were adamant they could solve the Irish border easily with technology so why are they so worried about the backstop anyway? Boris may be pretending to call their bluff but he knows full well they wont budge and I dont blame them. Has he got the gonads to go no deal though? Mmm ... I may be wrong but as I believed it the option in the joint report in keeping NI in the customs union was very much an EU idea wasn't it ??? No it was Theresas team that came up with it I believe. Doesnt matter anyway its non negotiable if we want to leave with a deal but like I said, if they are so confident in finding a solution why are they so worried about it? I think you'll find it wasn't Princess ... But you know best because youve studied Brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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