StuartO Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 A headteacher is reported to have written to all the parents of his schoolchildren saying that he doesn't believe his school can safely recommence (using the Government's plan) on June 1st and so he has advised them not to allow their children to return. Effectively he is substituting his own assessment of the risks for that of the Government, advised by its medical and scientific experts. I wonder if he has read the expert guidance on how the graduated return to a "new normal" of teaching practice (i.e. not simply resuming school in the old ways) before he made this move - the detailed guidance had hardly been published in time. Headteachers (and teachers generally) are employees who are paid to do their job. There is no such thing as perfect safety at work (or perfect protection from virus infection) for staff or 'customers' and a balance has to be struck. The employer'sobligation (under the Health & Safety at Work Act) is to make things safe "as far as reasonably practicable". The employer has the obligation to make things safe; an employee may make representations about any concerns but his/her option if there is no agreement is to resign, not to start a rebellion. A headteacher who writes to all the parents trying to foment a rebellion is guilty of serious misconduct and deserves to be sacked. I doubt the Government will take a tough line of that sort but teachers have had a cushy ride so far in this outbreak, taking turns to go to work to look after a tiny number of key workers' children and vulnerable children (on full pay) working only alternate weeks or less - but it's time for them to man up and work out how their job CAN be done rather than putting up barriers to progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 The workplace is going to be a different place ... School for him is his workplace , deal with the problems faced and work out a solution like every other workplace has had to ... Typical ruddy teacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 Brian posted recently on how conditions in the workplace were subject to the Health and Safety at Work Act. Can schools provide a safe working environment for children, teachers and other staff? From what I have read so far that is an imponderable question given the limitations of scientific research on how the virus spreads. Perhaps there are teachers or former teachers on here that have a view on this. I wouldn’t be inclined to make a judgement on whether his stance was indefensible at the moment. We all are entitled to follow our conscience even if that means we may qualify for the sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 Violet1956 - 2020-05-15 11:06 AM Brian posted recently on how conditions in the workplace were subject to the Health and Safety at Work Act. Can schools provide a safe working environment for children, teachers and other staff? From what I have read so far that is an imponderable question given the limitations of scientific research on how the virus spreads. Perhaps there are teachers or former teachers on here that have a view on this. I wouldn’t be inclined to make a judgement on whether his stance was indefensible at the moment. We all are entitled to follow our conscience even if that means we may qualify for the sack. Have they developed a conscience?.......Or just like the thought of being paid 80% for doing nowt? ;-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 Easy to say if your sat comfortably on lock down. I think he has a good point. Children are virus breeding factories. They wont social distance. A 5 year old will just sneeze in your face, some will require being taken to the toilet, picked up when they fall down etc. then they all trot off home back to their families having been in contact with God knows how many other kids and teachers. My sister is a teacher (as is my niece and nephew). Her husband is in the vulnerable category and my sister teaches vulnerable kids up to 18 with severe mental health issues. They are unpredictable, sometimes violent and wont understand whats going on just like young infants wont. Would it be a massive issue to keep the schools closed now until after the summer holidays at least? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-15 11:22 AM Violet1956 - 2020-05-15 11:06 AM Brian posted recently on how conditions in the workplace were subject to the Health and Safety at Work Act. Can schools provide a safe working environment for children, teachers and other staff? From what I have read so far that is an imponderable question given the limitations of scientific research on how the virus spreads. Perhaps there are teachers or former teachers on here that have a view on this. I wouldn’t be inclined to make a judgement on whether his stance was indefensible at the moment. We all are entitled to follow our conscience even if that means we may qualify for the sack. Have they developed a conscience?.......Or just like the thought of being paid 80% for doing nowt? ;-) ....... I find it interesting that you always suspect other people of pursuing their self-interest to the detriment of others Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 Violet1956 - 2020-05-15 11:32 AM pelmetman - 2020-05-15 11:22 AM Violet1956 - 2020-05-15 11:06 AM Brian posted recently on how conditions in the workplace were subject to the Health and Safety at Work Act. Can schools provide a safe working environment for children, teachers and other staff? From what I have read so far that is an imponderable question given the limitations of scientific research on how the virus spreads. Perhaps there are teachers or former teachers on here that have a view on this. I wouldn’t be inclined to make a judgement on whether his stance was indefensible at the moment. We all are entitled to follow our conscience even if that means we may qualify for the sack. Have they developed a conscience?.......Or just like the thought of being paid 80% for doing nowt? ;-) ....... I find it interesting that you always suspect other people of pursuing their self-interest to the detriment of others Dave. Given that the leader of the teachers union is a closet Communist and Corbynite ;-) .......... I'd say her interest has more to do with bringing down the government than teachers welfare *-) ....... I guess I'm just being my real world cynical self :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 Violet1956 - 2020-05-15 11:06 AM Brian posted recently on how conditions in the workplace were subject to the Health and Safety at Work Act. Can schools provide a safe working environment for children, teachers and other staff? From what I have read so far that is an imponderable question given the limitations of scientific research on how the virus spreads. Perhaps there are teachers or former teachers on here that have a view on this. I wouldn’t be inclined to make a judgement on whether his stance was indefensible at the moment. We all are entitled to follow our conscience even if that means we may qualify for the sack. It seems this headteacher agrees with the governments of Scotland and Wales and is expressing concern for the children and staff. He is entitled to his views and it does not mean he is ' starting a rebellion ' as Stuart puts it. If he feels he can not deal safely with the situation maybe he should stand aside and allow someone else to take over. ( IF - god forbid - he turns out to be right, and the return to school is a disaster - he will be hailed as a hero ). :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-05-15 11:23 AM Easy to say if your sat comfortably on lock down. I think he has a good point. Children are virus breeding factories. They wont social distance. A 5 year old will just sneeze in your face, some will require being taken to the toilet, picked up when they fall down etc. then they all trot off home back to their families having been in contact with God knows how many other kids and teachers. My sister is a teacher (as is my niece and nephew). Her husband is in the vulnerable category and my sister teaches vulnerable kids up to 18 with severe mental health issues. They are unpredictable, sometimes violent and wont understand whats going on just like young infants wont. Would it be a massive issue to keep the schools closed now until after the summer holidays at least? Ask those who have children who now need to go back to work if its "a massive issue" , of course it is ... Give young infants some credit princess ... We have two of our own and they know perfectly well whats going on ... What teacher says to infants generally goes , its secondary school kids that dont listen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted May 15, 2020 Author Share Posted May 15, 2020 malc d - 2020-05-15 12:16 PM It seems this headteacher agrees with the governments of Scotland and Wales and is expressing concern for the children and staff. He is entitled to his views and it does not mean he is ' starting a rebellion ' as Stuart puts it. If he feels he can not deal safely with the situation maybe he should stand aside and allow someone else to take over. ( IF - god forbid - he turns out to be right, and the return to school is a disaster - he will be hailed as a hero ). I'm sure there will be people hailing him as a hero already. Lots of people have expectations of a right to opt out or to exercise a veto over decisions they don't agree with these days, for example our Brian and his determination to block Brexit - but you can't run a country during a national emergency by allowing an Irish parliament to develop, you need firm government and someone in charge. We're lucky that our democracy has delivered a parliament with a working majority (it hasn't always done that) and although BoJo isn't everyone's cup of tea, he does seem to be capable of decision making and we do need to back him. As I said I don't think BoJo will take issue with one headmaster and risk an unnecessary backlash but it will be interesting to see how he handles the threat of the Communist Teacher's Unoin lady, wanting perfect safety for her members before she lets any of them reopen a school. I regard the line which the Scottish, Welsh and N Ireland First Ministers are taking as opportunistic political posturing because I don't see that they genuinely need to depart from the UK Government's approach at all at the moment - but there are clearly some practical consequences of devolution which probably weren't anticipated. Nicola Sturgeon has an eye for promoting the chances of Scottish Independence simply by taking a different line whenever she can and it's expedient for the others to do similar for their own reasons too. Interesting that BoJo's party line is to let them do it rather than put them down - just as his party line with all the challenging journalists seems to be to thank them politely for their questions, even when he has to side step the challenge. He's clearly recognising a need to avoid getting into relatively minor side issues when he's got the big picture of managing the pandemic to keep his mind on. Politics is the art of the possible eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-05-15 12:21 PM Barryd999 - 2020-05-15 11:23 AM Easy to say if your sat comfortably on lock down. I think he has a good point. Children are virus breeding factories. They wont social distance. A 5 year old will just sneeze in your face, some will require being taken to the toilet, picked up when they fall down etc. then they all trot off home back to their families having been in contact with God knows how many other kids and teachers. My sister is a teacher (as is my niece and nephew). Her husband is in the vulnerable category and my sister teaches vulnerable kids up to 18 with severe mental health issues. They are unpredictable, sometimes violent and wont understand whats going on just like young infants wont. Would it be a massive issue to keep the schools closed now until after the summer holidays at least? Ask those who have children who now need to go back to work if its "a massive issue" , of course it is ... Give young infants some credit princess ... We have two of our own and they know perfectly well whats going on ... What teacher says to infants generally goes , its secondary school kids that dont listen Well you're knowledge of children and how they behave is no doubt more than mine which is a big fat zero. If I were a teacher though I would be wondering why I should trust the same government thats promising to keep them safe who are the same government that said until very recently care homes would be safe in their hands. Its just too early IMO. They talk about the national R rate but up here and in Cumbria and the North east its now double what it is in London as we were the last region to peak. Couple that with the fact that some places in the North East have badly flouted the rules and it doesnt take a genius to work out that sending everyone back to work and school (up here at least) is a recipe for disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 When you look at the disasters unfolding in Care Homes, and the distress caused to people who have had cancer ( and other ) treatments postponed or cancelled, I'm surprised to hear anyone say that we should follow the instructions of the government without question.There is no precedent in modern times for the current health crisis, so no-one can be sure of the correct path to take. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 malc d - 2020-05-15 2:45 PM When you look at the disasters unfolding in Care Homes, and the distress caused to people who have had cancer ( and other ) treatments postponed or cancelled, I'm surprised to hear anyone say that we should follow the instructions of the government without question. There is no precedent in modern times for the current health crisis, so no-one can be sure of the correct path to take. :-| Well said, as per... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 malc d - 2020-05-15 2:45 PM When you look at the disasters unfolding in Care Homes, and the distress caused to people who have had cancer ( and other ) treatments postponed or cancelled, I'm surprised to hear anyone say that we should follow the instructions of the government without question. There is no precedent in modern times for the current health crisis, so no-one can be sure of the correct path to take. :-| It's a world war Malc :-| ........ So Labour should stop trying to score cheap points *-) ........ Not that I can see them doing that ......as they are now basically a Hate the Tory party 8-) ....... It's no wonder they lost >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rael Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 I was agreeing with you until this point: "but teachers have had a cushy ride so far in this outbreak, taking turns to go to work to look after a tiny number of key workers' children and vulnerable children (on full pay) working only alternate weeks or less" Could you confirm your experience of working in the education sector? I work in a school, not as a teacher, and I can confirm that your comment could not be further from the truth. Teachers have been required to set work for all their classes to be delivered online. Online resources don't just appear, yes there is a lot of content out there, however, it all needs tailoring to the individual needs of students. Many teachers are creating their own interactive resources from scratch in an effort to engage and educate their students. All the teachers at the school I work at are required to work each day putting in their hours and more, to ensure all their students have access to the best quality education they can provide, given the circumstances. Feedback and assessment is also required and this is further hampered by limited access to the students. Its not just a question of 'setting a bit of work', the work and tasks set have to ensure continuity and progression so that when the students eventually return they can continue and build on the work they have been doing whilst schools have been closed What is a shame is that about only one third of parents in the UK can be bothered to get their children to do the work that is set. They are happy to whinge and complain about school/teachers but cannot be bothered to actually do anything themselves. The dedicated parents will be ensuring their children are keeping up with the work set. I'm afraid its all part of a system where we blame teachers and schools for the shortcomings of parenting. Schools and teachers are having to do the work of parents, sex and diet, drugs, social media use, bullying, mental health, careers guidance etc We expect teachers to do this, as well as teaching. We have become the nanny state with teachers bearing the responsibility of the parents who can't be bothered. So I'm quite happy for teachers to be paid for continuing to work, Lets not loose sight of the fact that the government is currently paying about 25% of the UK workforce (including relatives of mine) 80% of their wages for doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 rael - 2020-05-15 2:55 PM We expect teachers to do this, as well as teaching. We have become the nanny state with teachers bearing the responsibility of the parents who can't be bothered. Sounds like teachers are reaping the benefit of their left wing university teachings :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-15 2:55 PM malc d - 2020-05-15 2:45 PM When you look at the disasters unfolding in Care Homes, and the distress caused to people who have had cancer ( and other ) treatments postponed or cancelled, I'm surprised to hear anyone say that we should follow the instructions of the government without question. There is no precedent in modern times for the current health crisis, so no-one can be sure of the correct path to take. :-| It's a world war Malc :-| ........ So Labour should stop trying to score cheap points *-) ........ Not that I can see them doing that ......as they are now basically a Hate the Tory party 8-) ....... It's no wonder they lost >:-) ........ It's not like a world war Dave. ( If you'd been in one you would know that ). I can understand your dislike of the Labour party doing its' job as opposition - I'm sure you would be much happier in a dictatorship. - we won't know for a year or two who wins the argument over how to deal with Covid-19 - so it's a bit early to say who lost. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 malc d - 2020-05-15 3:34 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-15 2:55 PM malc d - 2020-05-15 2:45 PM When you look at the disasters unfolding in Care Homes, and the distress caused to people who have had cancer ( and other ) treatments postponed or cancelled, I'm surprised to hear anyone say that we should follow the instructions of the government without question. There is no precedent in modern times for the current health crisis, so no-one can be sure of the correct path to take. :-| It's a world war Malc :-| ........ So Labour should stop trying to score cheap points *-) ........ Not that I can see them doing that ......as they are now basically a Hate the Tory party 8-) ....... It's no wonder they lost >:-) ........ It's not like a world war Dave. ( If you'd been in one you would know that ). I can understand your dislike of the Labour party doing its' job as opposition - I'm sure you would be much happier in a dictatorship. - we won't know for a year or two who wins the argument over how to deal with Covid-19 - so it's a bit early to say who lost. :-| It's a world war in the fact that the world is fighting it ;-) ......... Although you'd think it was only us reading the wets on here trying to point score *-) ....... Labour should really have taken up Boris's offer of a coallition to help fight the virus >:-( ...... But they are full of hate......so prefer to help the virus than cooperate against it :-| .......... When the final scores on the doors are totted up......the only ones who will have lost, are those who tried to use a pandemic to grind their axe *-) .............. The British public is not daft >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 rael - 2020-05-15 2:55 PM I was agreeing with you until this point: "but teachers have had a cushy ride so far in this outbreak, taking turns to go to work to look after a tiny number of key workers' children and vulnerable children (on full pay) working only alternate weeks or less" Could you confirm your experience of working in the education sector? I work in a school, not as a teacher, and I can confirm that your comment could not be further from the truth. Teachers have been required to set work for all their classes to be delivered online. Online resources don't just appear, yes there is a lot of content out there, however, it all needs tailoring to the individual needs of students. Many teachers are creating their own interactive resources from scratch in an effort to engage and educate their students. All the teachers at the school I work at are required to work each day putting in their hours and more, to ensure all their students have access to the best quality education they can provide, given the circumstances. Feedback and assessment is also required and this is further hampered by limited access to the students. Its not just a question of 'setting a bit of work', the work and tasks set have to ensure continuity and progression so that when the students eventually return they can continue and build on the work they have been doing whilst schools have been closed What is a shame is that about only one third of parents in the UK can be bothered to get their children to do the work that is set. They are happy to whinge and complain about school/teachers but cannot be bothered to actually do anything themselves. The dedicated parents will be ensuring their children are keeping up with the work set. I'm afraid its all part of a system where we blame teachers and schools for the shortcomings of parenting. Schools and teachers are having to do the work of parents, sex and diet, drugs, social media use, bullying, mental health, careers guidance etc We expect teachers to do this, as well as teaching. We have become the nanny state with teachers bearing the responsibility of the parents who can't be bothered. So I'm quite happy for teachers to be paid for continuing to work, Lets not loose sight of the fact that the government is currently paying about 25% of the UK workforce (including relatives of mine) 80% of their wages for doing nothing. Excellent post. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 rael - 2020-05-15 2:55 PM I was agreeing with you until this point: "but teachers have had a cushy ride so far in this outbreak, taking turns to go to work to look after a tiny number of key workers' children and vulnerable children (on full pay) working only alternate weeks or less" Could you confirm your experience of working in the education sector? I work in a school, not as a teacher, and I can confirm that your comment could not be further from the truth. Teachers have been required to set work for all their classes to be delivered online. Online resources don't just appear, yes there is a lot of content out there, however, it all needs tailoring to the individual needs of students. Many teachers are creating their own interactive resources from scratch in an effort to engage and educate their students. All the teachers at the school I work at are required to work each day putting in their hours and more, to ensure all their students have access to the best quality education they can provide, given the circumstances. Feedback and assessment is also required and this is further hampered by limited access to the students. Its not just a question of 'setting a bit of work', the work and tasks set have to ensure continuity and progression so that when the students eventually return they can continue and build on the work they have been doing whilst schools have been closed What is a shame is that about only one third of parents in the UK can be bothered to get their children to do the work that is set. They are happy to whinge and complain about school/teachers but cannot be bothered to actually do anything themselves. The dedicated parents will be ensuring their children are keeping up with the work set. I'm afraid its all part of a system where we blame teachers and schools for the shortcomings of parenting. Schools and teachers are having to do the work of parents, sex and diet, drugs, social media use, bullying, mental health, careers guidance etc We expect teachers to do this, as well as teaching. We have become the nanny state with teachers bearing the responsibility of the parents who can't be bothered. So I'm quite happy for teachers to be paid for continuing to work, Lets not loose sight of the fact that the government is currently paying about 25% of the UK workforce (including relatives of mine) 80% of their wages for doing nothing. So good to have a post from someone who clearly knows his stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted May 15, 2020 Author Share Posted May 15, 2020 rael - 2020-05-15 2:55 PM I was agreeing with you until this point: "but teachers have had a cushy ride so far in this outbreak, taking turns to go to work to look after a tiny number of key workers' children and vulnerable children (on full pay) working only alternate weeks or less". Could you confirm your experience of working in the education sector? .... All the teachers at the school I work at are required to work each day putting in their hours and more, to ensure all their students have access to the best quality education they can provide, given the circumstances. Feedback and assessment is also required....What is a shame is that about only one third of parents in the UK can be bothered to get their children to do the work that is set. They are happy to whinge and complain about school/teachers but cannot be bothered to actually do anything themselves.... Schools and teachers are having to do the work of parents, sex and diet, drugs, social media use, bullying, mental health, careers guidance etc We expect teachers to do this, as well as teaching. We have become the nanny state with teachers bearing the responsibility of the parents who can't be bothered..... I haven't "worked" in a school since, many years ago, I was a volunteer listening to primary school children read one-to-one. It was in a poor area and most of the children got themselves to school leaving mum, a habitual drug user, in bed with this week's "uncle" and were given breakfast at school because they wouldn't otherwise get any. I get your point about poor parenting; it was heartbreaking to encounter the prevalance of a disastrous family background not least because you could see that most of the kids would go the same way as their no-hope family. But a friend of my wife's is a full time working teacher and she's been working on a roster instead of full time during the outbreak, which is where I got the idea that they were all time-sharing the care of the relatively few kids coming in. I am however aware that modern teaching involves a lot of planning and preparation of lessons and a lot of OFSTED monitoring etc. If I was implying that all teachers are layabouts that certainly wasn't the intention but I do suspect that returning to full time intensive teaching work will be something that at least some teachers will not be desperate for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-15 3:45 PM malc d - 2020-05-15 3:34 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-15 2:55 PM malc d - 2020-05-15 2:45 PM When you look at the disasters unfolding in Care Homes, and the distress caused to people who have had cancer ( and other ) treatments postponed or cancelled, I'm surprised to hear anyone say that we should follow the instructions of the government without question. There is no precedent in modern times for the current health crisis, so no-one can be sure of the correct path to take. :-| It's a world war Malc :-| ........ So Labour should stop trying to score cheap points *-) ........ Not that I can see them doing that ......as they are now basically a Hate the Tory party 8-) ....... It's no wonder they lost >:-) ........ It's not like a world war Dave. ( If you'd been in one you would know that ). I can understand your dislike of the Labour party doing its' job as opposition - I'm sure you would be much happier in a dictatorship. - we won't know for a year or two who wins the argument over how to deal with Covid-19 - so it's a bit early to say who lost. :-| It's a world war in the fact that the world is fighting it ;-) ......... Lets compare life in wartime ( in the U.K.) to life in a pandemic : WW2: 1940 to 1945 Air raid siren goes off once or twice a night. Everyone dashes down to the cold damp Anderson shelter buried in the garden and holds their breath hoping not to get a direct hit, and that their house will still be there when they come out. Another day a V2 rocket lands nearby and blows out most of your windows. A dozen or so of your neighbours are killed. Hundreds of enemy bombers come over on a regular basis - and you never know if its' your turn. ( Didn't apply to everyone of course - mainly those living in towns and cities ) You live on a WEEKLY ration of 2oz of tea - 8oz of sugar - 4oz of bacon or ham etc etc ( oh and you were also allowed one egg ). COVID-19 : 2020 Government issues instructions for everyone to stay indoors as much as possible. I'm sure a lot of politicians would like people to see them as " Wartime leaders " - and maybe some of their supporters see them that way. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 malc d - 2020-05-15 4:24 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-15 3:45 PM malc d - 2020-05-15 3:34 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-15 2:55 PM malc d - 2020-05-15 2:45 PM When you look at the disasters unfolding in Care Homes, and the distress caused to people who have had cancer ( and other ) treatments postponed or cancelled, I'm surprised to hear anyone say that we should follow the instructions of the government without question. There is no precedent in modern times for the current health crisis, so no-one can be sure of the correct path to take. :-| It's a world war Malc :-| ........ So Labour should stop trying to score cheap points *-) ........ Not that I can see them doing that ......as they are now basically a Hate the Tory party 8-) ....... It's no wonder they lost >:-) ........ It's not like a world war Dave. ( If you'd been in one you would know that ). I can understand your dislike of the Labour party doing its' job as opposition - I'm sure you would be much happier in a dictatorship. - we won't know for a year or two who wins the argument over how to deal with Covid-19 - so it's a bit early to say who lost. :-| It's a world war in the fact that the world is fighting it ;-) ......... Lets compare life in wartime ( in the U.K.) to life in a pandemic : WW2: 1940 to 1945 Air raid siren goes off once or twice a night. Everyone dashes down to the cold damp Anderson shelter buried in the garden and holds their breath hoping not to get a direct hit, and that their house will still be there when they come out. Another day a V2 rocket lands nearby and blows out most of your windows. A dozen or so of your neighbours are killed. Hundreds of enemy bombers come over on a regular basis - and you never know if its' your turn. You live on a WEEKLY ration of 2oz of tea - 8oz of sugar - 4oz of bacon or ham etc etc ( oh and you were also allowed one egg ). COVID-19 : 2020 Government issues instructions for everyone to stay indoors as much as possible. I'm sure a lot of politicians would like people to see them as " Wartime leaders " - and maybe some of their supporters see them that way. :-| So our war time effort involved sitting on our a*ses ;-) ..........at least I complied without complaint :D ...... Unlike some on here *-) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-15 4:29 PM malc d - 2020-05-15 4:24 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-15 3:45 PM malc d - 2020-05-15 3:34 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-15 2:55 PM malc d - 2020-05-15 2:45 PM When you look at the disasters unfolding in Care Homes, and the distress caused to people who have had cancer ( and other ) treatments postponed or cancelled, I'm surprised to hear anyone say that we should follow the instructions of the government without question. There is no precedent in modern times for the current health crisis, so no-one can be sure of the correct path to take. :-| It's a world war Malc :-| ........ So Labour should stop trying to score cheap points *-) ........ Not that I can see them doing that ......as they are now basically a Hate the Tory party 8-) ....... It's no wonder they lost >:-) ........ It's not like a world war Dave. ( If you'd been in one you would know that ). I can understand your dislike of the Labour party doing its' job as opposition - I'm sure you would be much happier in a dictatorship. - we won't know for a year or two who wins the argument over how to deal with Covid-19 - so it's a bit early to say who lost. :-| It's a world war in the fact that the world is fighting it ;-) ......... Lets compare life in wartime ( in the U.K.) to life in a pandemic : WW2: 1940 to 1945 Air raid siren goes off once or twice a night. Everyone dashes down to the cold damp Anderson shelter buried in the garden and holds their breath hoping not to get a direct hit, and that their house will still be there when they come out. Another day a V2 rocket lands nearby and blows out most of your windows. A dozen or so of your neighbours are killed. Hundreds of enemy bombers come over on a regular basis - and you never know if its' your turn. You live on a WEEKLY ration of 2oz of tea - 8oz of sugar - 4oz of bacon or ham etc etc ( oh and you were also allowed one egg ). COVID-19 : 2020 Government issues instructions for everyone to stay indoors as much as possible. I'm sure a lot of politicians would like people to see them as " Wartime leaders " - and maybe some of their supporters see them that way. :-| So our war time effort involved sitting on our a*ses ;-) .. Your knowledge of what people did in WW2 is clearly non-existent - it's now people are sitting on their a*ses - not in WW2. Your remark is an insult to all the civilians and service men who died in WW2. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 malc d - 2020-05-15 4:34 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-15 4:29 PM malc d - 2020-05-15 4:24 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-15 3:45 PM malc d - 2020-05-15 3:34 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-15 2:55 PM malc d - 2020-05-15 2:45 PM When you look at the disasters unfolding in Care Homes, and the distress caused to people who have had cancer ( and other ) treatments postponed or cancelled, I'm surprised to hear anyone say that we should follow the instructions of the government without question. There is no precedent in modern times for the current health crisis, so no-one can be sure of the correct path to take. :-| It's a world war Malc :-| ........ So Labour should stop trying to score cheap points *-) ........ Not that I can see them doing that ......as they are now basically a Hate the Tory party 8-) ....... It's no wonder they lost >:-) ........ It's not like a world war Dave. ( If you'd been in one you would know that ). I can understand your dislike of the Labour party doing its' job as opposition - I'm sure you would be much happier in a dictatorship. - we won't know for a year or two who wins the argument over how to deal with Covid-19 - so it's a bit early to say who lost. :-| It's a world war in the fact that the world is fighting it ;-) ......... Lets compare life in wartime ( in the U.K.) to life in a pandemic : WW2: 1940 to 1945 Air raid siren goes off once or twice a night. Everyone dashes down to the cold damp Anderson shelter buried in the garden and holds their breath hoping not to get a direct hit, and that their house will still be there when they come out. Another day a V2 rocket lands nearby and blows out most of your windows. A dozen or so of your neighbours are killed. Hundreds of enemy bombers come over on a regular basis - and you never know if its' your turn. You live on a WEEKLY ration of 2oz of tea - 8oz of sugar - 4oz of bacon or ham etc etc ( oh and you were also allowed one egg ). COVID-19 : 2020 Government issues instructions for everyone to stay indoors as much as possible. I'm sure a lot of politicians would like people to see them as " Wartime leaders " - and maybe some of their supporters see them that way. :-| So our war time effort involved sitting on our a*ses ;-) .. Your knowledge of what people did in WW2 is clearly non-existent. :-| Well to fair ;-) .......I'm not as old as you :D ........ But my knowledge of history is pretty good........and the doom mongers weren't much appreciated back then either :-| ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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