StuartO Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 I wouldn't have chosen Boris, given an alternative other than Jeremy, but so far he's doing all right isn't he? He's even developing a bit of gravitas. And it looks like we will have to stand firm in the negotiations with the EU, which wants to tie us in/down with their ideas of a level playing field etc and their courts, their access to our fishing areas. They are at least facing a PM who has bottle and a majority in Parliament, so the EU will feel credible pressure to get a deal too. Power to your elbow Boris! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 StuartO - 2020-02-04 10:43 AM I wouldn't have chosen Boris, given an alternative other than Jeremy, but so far he's doing all right isn't he? He's even developing a bit of gravitas. I agree he is the better choice between him and Corbyn but I'm not sure what he has ' done ' so far apart from repeating positive sound bites. Bit early to see if he will achieve anything. Not seen any signs of gravitas yet myself. ;-) p.s. Have just been reading about the mass walk out of journalists from No. 10 yesterday protesting about them hand picking only journalists who support the government ( it seems ). Not a good sign for the future. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 He is probably the best option for a leader when negotiating a deal, but make no mistake whatever deal we come out with he will gloss over the downsides. He has already agreed to a border in the Irish sea and then denied it, the same will happen with fishing, he is most likely to give the EU much of what it wants and then tell UK fishing industry how well off they are. p.s. Here's a future sound bite. "I've secured a brilliant deal with the EU for our fisherman, they will have unlimited access to the EU market in fish which takes 60% of our catch", what he will gloss over is the EU access to UK waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 It is inevitably that the Eu will have access to our waters, it just needs to be more on our terms. The level playing field is a one sided Eu playing field because they don’t want an unleashed Uk. Even the German foreign minister said Uk is a very strong country and Germany needs a deal with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 malc d - 2020-02-04 11:08 AM ...... but I'm not sure what he has ' done ' so far apart from repeating positive sound bites. Bit early to see if he will achieve anything. Not seen any signs of gravitas yet myself. I did say he's developing a bit of gravitas! As you say, time will tell what he actually delivers. They're exchanging opening salvos at the moment, so it's going to be tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 StuartO - 2020-02-04 11:44 AM malc d - 2020-02-04 11:08 AM ...... but I'm not sure what he has ' done ' so far apart from repeating positive sound bites. Bit early to see if he will achieve anything. Not seen any signs of gravitas yet myself. I did say he's developing a bit of gravitas! As you say, time will tell what he actually delivers. They're exchanging opening salvos at the moment, so it's going to be tough. Yesterday he made a speech from behind a podium on which was written " Unleashing Britains Potential " He seems unaware that the election is over - and he won - so he no longer needs these sorts of juvenile slogans. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 colin - 2020-02-04 11:16 AM He is probably the best option for a leader when negotiating a deal, but make no mistake whatever deal we come out with he will gloss over the downsides. He has already agreed to a border in the Irish sea and then denied it, the same will happen with fishing, he is most likely to give the EU much of what it wants and then tell UK fishing industry how well off they are. p.s. Here's a future sound bite. "I've secured a brilliant deal with the EU for our fisherman, they will have unlimited access to the EU market in fish which takes 60% of our catch", what he will gloss over is the EU access to UK waters. Well he is the king of deception and gloss. The latest one I reckon is going to be disguising no deal as an Australian style deal. He's already done that with the Australian style points system (we have had one since 2008) which was designed to actually encourage immigration in Australia Brexiteers will see anything with the Australian label on it as being some kind of no nonsense good ole bloke kind of deal so they will like that despite an Australian style deal actually meaning no deal as they don't actually have one. Johnson could present a polished turd on national television and say it's a great Brexit deal and probably get cheered for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 There will be no negotiations until March due to EU rules. All we have at the moment is sabre rattling from both sides. Wake me up when any of you has anything concrete to mention. Thanks. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 malc d - 2020-02-04 11:55 AM ....Yesterday he made a speech from behind a podium on which was written " Unleashing Britains Potential " He seems unaware that the election is over - and he won - so he no longer needs these sorts of juvenile slogans... I think he's trying to maintain some momentum and that's OK by me. Have you noticed that Labour politicians have toned down their knee jerk outspoken trashing of anything from the Tories in favour of more balanced and reasonable comment, perhaps aiming at appearing to be reasonable and constructive as an Opposition rather than ranting socialist evangelists. Jeremy and McDonnel are still spouting their stuff though, presumably to do so while their prominence still entitles them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 747 - 2020-02-04 4:28 PM There will be no negotiations until March due to EU rules. All we have at the moment is sabre rattling from both sides. Wake me up when any of you has anything concrete to mention. Thanks. ;-) Well I suspect that is because there will be a process at the EU, negotiation objectives and directives and a strategy to organise. Johnson will probably just send Raab C Brexit with a biro and a fag packet to write on. I dont think Johnson does planning or detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Trade deals are all about who has the most Clout - and the Brittannia Rules the Waves Brexiteers seem to think we have more clout that the combined 27 countries of the EU. How can the EU give us a better deal than we have as a member? - everyone else would leave. Whatever deal BoJo gets you can be sure it won't be as good a deal we have as a member. But the Tory press will present it as a better one, and most people won't know any better. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 malc d - 2020-02-04 11:55 AM StuartO - 2020-02-04 11:44 AM malc d - 2020-02-04 11:08 AM ...... but I'm not sure what he has ' done ' so far apart from repeating positive sound bites. Bit early to see if he will achieve anything. Not seen any signs of gravitas yet myself. I did say he's developing a bit of gravitas! As you say, time will tell what he actually delivers. They're exchanging opening salvos at the moment, so it's going to be tough. Yesterday he made a speech from behind a podium on which was written " Unleashing Britains Potential " He seems unaware that the election is over - and he won - so he no longer needs these sorts of juvenile slogans. :-| Silly inane nonsense like that appeals to Daily Wail and Brexpress "readers" though and Johnson knows thats what they like to hear. Anything more than a silly slogan or soundbite is too much detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-02-04 1:27 PM colin - 2020-02-04 11:16 AM He is probably the best option for a leader when negotiating a deal, but make no mistake whatever deal we come out with he will gloss over the downsides. He has already agreed to a border in the Irish sea and then denied it, the same will happen with fishing, he is most likely to give the EU much of what it wants and then tell UK fishing industry how well off they are. p.s. Here's a future sound bite. "I've secured a brilliant deal with the EU for our fisherman, they will have unlimited access to the EU market in fish which takes 60% of our catch", what he will gloss over is the EU access to UK waters. Well he is the king of deception and gloss. The latest one I reckon is going to be disguising no deal as an Australian style deal. He's already done that with the Australian style points system (we have had one since 2008) which was designed to actually encourage immigration in Australia Brexiteers will see anything with the Australian label on it as being some kind of no nonsense good ole bloke kind of deal so they will like that despite an Australian style deal actually meaning no deal as they don't actually have one. Johnson could present a polished turd on national television and say it's a great Brexit deal and probably get cheered for it. Johnson is just miffed because the EU won't give him exactly what he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 John52 - 2020-02-04 5:18 PM Trade deals are all about who has the most Clout - and the Brittannia Rules the Waves Brexiteers seem to think we have more clout that the combined 27 countries of the EU. How can the EU give us a better deal than we have as a member? - everyone else would leave. Whatever deal BoJo gets you can be sure it won't be as good a deal we have as a member. But the Tory press will present it as a better one, and most people won't know any better. :-S Good article here; They didn't even allow one working day before the lie machine sprang into operation. On Sunday morning, less than 48 hours after the UK had left the EU, the Downing Street fabrication operation came back online. It started with a briefing to the Telegraph, one of Boris Johnson's several friendly print outlets, who will transcribe out his message line-by-line for its readers. "Johnson fury as EU reneges on deal," the headline said. Inside a source had informed the paper that the prime minister was "privately infuriated" with EU attempts to frustrate a deal. What were they "privately frustrated" about? It seems it is the level-playing-field provisions. These are the sets of standards in which the EU expects the UK to align on, covering issues like the environment, state aid and labour. It is their insurance policy to make sure the UK does not undercut them. Johnson himself will make this argument in his first major post-Brexit speech today, laying out his stall for the talks to come. "There is no need for a free trade agreement to involve accepting EU rules on competition policy, subsidies, social protection, the environment, or anything similar any more than the EU should be obliged to accept UK rules." These are all lies. You do not need to research heavily to establish the lies. They are lies by virtue of what is freely available in the public domain and the texts the UK itself has signed up to. The EU demand for level-playing field provisions is not new. EU officials first started talking about them in late 2016. In March 2019, the Europeans said they were ready to pursue a free trade agreement "insofar as there are sufficient guarantees for a level playing field". So the government is lying - that is the word for it, no point beating around the bush - about the EU's position. It is also lying about the position it held - as point of fact, by virtue of the agreements it signed - until yesterday morning. https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2020/02/03/lies-blame-rewriting-history-welcome-to-day-one-of-brexit-ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 No Deal/WTO tariffs paid by importers of UK exports vs Current EU membership tariffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-02-04 1:27 PM colin - 2020-02-04 11:16 AM He is probably the best option for a leader when negotiating a deal, but make no mistake whatever deal we come out with he will gloss over the downsides. He has already agreed to a border in the Irish sea and then denied it, the same will happen with fishing, he is most likely to give the EU much of what it wants and then tell UK fishing industry how well off they are. p.s. Here's a future sound bite. "I've secured a brilliant deal with the EU for our fisherman, they will have unlimited access to the EU market in fish which takes 60% of our catch", what he will gloss over is the EU access to UK waters. Well he is the king of deception and gloss. The latest one I reckon is going to be disguising no deal as an Australian style deal. He's already done that with the Australian style points system (we have had one since 2008) which was designed to actually encourage immigration in Australia Brexiteers will see anything with the Australian label on it as being some kind of no nonsense good ole bloke kind of deal so they will like that despite an Australian style deal actually meaning no deal as they don't actually have one. Johnson could present a polished turd on national television and say it's a great Brexit deal and probably get cheered for it. Barry "not giving a toss about Brexit" ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 It's quite funny, this, isn't it? This is from the WTO website: "Resolving trade disputes is one of the core activities of the WTO. A dispute arises when a member government believes another member government is violating an agreement or a commitment that it has made in the WTO. The WTO has one of the most active international dispute settlement mechanisms in the world. Since 1995, 593 disputes have been brought to the WTO and over 350 rulings have been issued." So, we'd sooner have the WTO resolve any trade disputes the UK gets involved in than the ECJ. What is the difference? Both organisations hear presentations from countries that have entered into trade agreements with other countries, within the rules applied by the respective trade organisation, where it is claimed the rules are being "bent". Both act as "referee" to protect the rules. We don't have to have trade deals in order to trade, but we prefer to do so because by agreeing to the rules (which we also, through membership of whichever club, agree to adhere to), we protect out own markets from unfair competition. It is protectionism in the interests of economic and fair trade between states. You grant others access to your market for their goods in return for access to their market for your goods. To achieve that to the benefit of both parties, there must be rules, and where there are rules, there must be agreement on how to resolve disputes over adherence to those rules. Enter the ECJ and the WTO. Of course, in days gone by, we just sent a gunboat. Progress, eh! :-D Either you can live with it, or you can't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 It always amuses me the term” unfair competition “. Which should actually just be “ competition “ The Eu does not like competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-02-04 8:59 PM It always amuses me the term” unfair competition “. Which should actually just be “ competition “ The Eu does not like competition. It's a legal term we have within our own laws. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40319-012-0010-5 https://www.gov.uk/cartels-price-fixing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-02-04 6:28 PM No Deal/WTO tariffs paid by importers of UK exports vs Current EU membership tariffs. Some of the comments are unbelievable. I know its bad form to call people thick but Twitter really does have its fair share of total planks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-02-04 7:01 PM Barryd999 - 2020-02-04 1:27 PM colin - 2020-02-04 11:16 AM He is probably the best option for a leader when negotiating a deal, but make no mistake whatever deal we come out with he will gloss over the downsides. He has already agreed to a border in the Irish sea and then denied it, the same will happen with fishing, he is most likely to give the EU much of what it wants and then tell UK fishing industry how well off they are. p.s. Here's a future sound bite. "I've secured a brilliant deal with the EU for our fisherman, they will have unlimited access to the EU market in fish which takes 60% of our catch", what he will gloss over is the EU access to UK waters. Well he is the king of deception and gloss. The latest one I reckon is going to be disguising no deal as an Australian style deal. He's already done that with the Australian style points system (we have had one since 2008) which was designed to actually encourage immigration in Australia Brexiteers will see anything with the Australian label on it as being some kind of no nonsense good ole bloke kind of deal so they will like that despite an Australian style deal actually meaning no deal as they don't actually have one. Johnson could present a polished turd on national television and say it's a great Brexit deal and probably get cheered for it. Barry "not giving a toss about Brexit" ??? I dont remember saying I wouldn't continue to stay abreast of it all and maintain a viewpoint and interest. Im just a bystander now though. It all rests on the Brexiteers shoulders now to deliver it all. Nowt to do with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-02-05 7:55 AM Bulletguy - 2020-02-04 6:28 PM No Deal/WTO tariffs paid by importers of UK exports vs Current EU membership tariffs. Some of the comments are unbelievable. I know its bad form to call people thick but Twitter really does have its fair share of total planks. Some are spot on such as this along with the follow up tweet; then there are the quips; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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