You are logged in as a guest. 
  Home Forums Home  Search our Forums Search our Forums    Log in to the Forums Log in to the Forums  register Register on the Forums  

 Forums ->  General Chat -> Chatterbox
Jump to page : First 1 2 Last
Format:  Go
Interesting article
AuthorMessage
userBulletguy
Posted: 3 December 2018 5:45 PM
Subject: Interesting article
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 9216
500020002000100100
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto



A very informative read.

A Series of Miscalculations Has Brought Britain to the Brink

Britain hasn't been united for a while now. Most Scots, Northern Irish and Londoners voted against Brexit, while a majority of Welsh and English are in favor of it. But all seem to know they will ultimately emerge from the situation in a weakened position.

The rift runs through entire families. In some, people are no longer talking to each other and in others they are talking over one another. Politicians are getting hate mail and death threats. In Westminster, conservative and center-left pro-EU figures are suddenly allying themselves against conservative and left-wing eurosceptics. Rumors of the possible establishment of a new centrist party are making the rounds.

People on the continent are watching with astonishment, some even with condescension, at what is happening in London. In the past, the rest of Europe was certain British diplomats and officials were among the best in their field. And now? An entire country is degrading itself and many EU diplomats believe its political class has turned itself into a laughing stock.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-mistakes-that-led-to-brexit-a-1240126.html
userantony1969
Posted: 3 December 2018 5:48 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


The special one

Posts: 10906
50005000500100100100100
Location: Sunny Huddersfield


Posted by the forums chief name caller and insult thrower when he disagrees with sumat ... Ya couldn't make it up !!!
userpelmetman
Posted: 3 December 2018 6:46 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24800
500050005000500020002000500100100100
Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


I blame the 48% who are too selfish to accept the result of a legitimate referendum ...........



Edited by pelmetman 2018-12-03 6:47 PM
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 4 December 2018 12:55 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


500050005000100010010010025
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


How cruel - ourselves as others see us! Anyone with any wit or reason will read this brilliantly incisive and informed article and wonder what on earth we have become.

Those who previously bleated that discussing the shortcomings of Brexit on here somehow prejudiced the government's bargaining position must surely be given pause for thought.

This is by two outsiders (German) looking in, and they have the mood, the detail, the quotes, and the uncomfortable (and for some inconvenient) facts spot on.

It is a long read, so it is unlikely (borne out by their evident failure to have grasped a single word of it) that either of the previous commentators read it. It is humiliating to have the whole rotten issue laid out with such sparkling clarity.

I would urge anyone else to take the time to read and inwardly digest this piece. It is a litany of devastating home truths.

Edited by Brian Kirby 2018-12-04 1:02 PM
userBulletguy
Posted: 4 December 2018 1:42 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 9216
500020002000100100
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


Brian Kirby - 2018-12-04 12:55 PM

How cruel - ourselves as others see us! Anyone with any wit or reason will read this brilliantly incisive and informed article and wonder what on earth we have become.

Those who previously bleated that discussing the shortcomings of Brexit on here somehow prejudiced the government's bargaining position must surely be given pause for thought.

This is by two outsiders (German) looking in, and they have the mood, the detail, the quotes, and the uncomfortable (and for some inconvenient) facts spot on.

It is a long read, so it is unlikely (borne out by their evident failure to have grasped a single word of it) that either of the previous commentators read it. It is humiliating to have the whole rotten issue laid out with such sparkling clarity.

I would urge anyone else to take the time to read and inwardly digest this piece. It is a litany of devastating home truths.

Brilliantly written article eh? But yes it's a long informative read with no silly pictures or cartoons so i knew the the usual suspects would never get beyond the header and just whoosh in with some inane comment.
userpelmetman
Posted: 4 December 2018 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24800
500050005000500020002000500100100100
Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Brian Kirby - 2018-12-04 12:55 PM

How cruel - ourselves as others see us! Anyone with any wit or reason will read this brilliantly incisive and informed article and wonder what on earth we have become.

Those who previously bleated that discussing the shortcomings of Brexit on here somehow prejudiced the government's bargaining position must surely be given pause for thought.

This is by two outsiders (German) looking in, and they have the mood, the detail, the quotes, and the uncomfortable (and for some inconvenient) facts spot on.

It is a long read, so it is unlikely (borne out by their evident failure to have grasped a single word of it) that either of the previous commentators read it. It is humiliating to have the whole rotten issue laid out with such sparkling clarity.

I would urge anyone else to take the time to read and inwardly digest this piece. It is a litany of devastating home truths.


Home truths for who? ...........

You Remoaners can carry on with your self flagellation ..........

I wont be reading anymore pointless propaganda .........

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 4 December 2018 4:14 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


500050005000100010010010025
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:01 PM...………………..
Home truths for who? ...........

You Remoaners can carry on with your self flagellation ..........

I wont be reading anymore pointless propaganda .........

Aw, c'mon Dave, give us you appraisal of the article. Tell us where you think it is, actually, wrong. Go on, I dare you!
userpelmetman
Posted: 4 December 2018 4:21 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24800
500050005000500020002000500100100100
Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Brian Kirby - 2018-12-04 4:14 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:01 PM...………………..
Home truths for who? ...........

You Remoaners can carry on with your self flagellation ..........

I wont be reading anymore pointless propaganda .........

Aw, c'mon Dave, give us you appraisal of the article. Tell us where you think it is, actually, wrong. Go on, I dare you!


I don't need to take any lectures from Germans .........Given their history........past and present ..........

userBulletguy
Posted: 4 December 2018 4:30 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 9216
500020002000100100
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:21 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-04 4:14 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:01 PM...………………..
Home truths for who? ...........

You Remoaners can carry on with your self flagellation ..........

I wont be reading anymore pointless propaganda .........

Aw, c'mon Dave, give us you appraisal of the article. Tell us where you think it is, actually, wrong. Go on, I dare you!


I don't need to take any lectures from Germans .........Given their history........past and present ..........

So challenge it then. Of course you'd need to read it and it's a bit longer than the tweets and screechy headers you're more used to.
userpelmetman
Posted: 4 December 2018 4:39 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24800
500050005000500020002000500100100100
Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Bulletguy - 2018-12-04 4:30 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:21 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-04 4:14 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:01 PM...………………..
Home truths for who? ...........

You Remoaners can carry on with your self flagellation ..........

I wont be reading anymore pointless propaganda .........

Aw, c'mon Dave, give us you appraisal of the article. Tell us where you think it is, actually, wrong. Go on, I dare you!


I don't need to take any lectures from Germans .........Given their history........past and present ..........

So challenge it then. Of course you'd need to read it and it's a bit longer than the tweets and screechy headers you're more used to.


Don't need to challenge it ..........

Brexits got nothing to do with them ..........except they're gonna have to pick up our tab eventually ...............

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 4 December 2018 6:19 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


500050005000100010010010025
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:39 PM

Bulletguy - 2018-12-04 4:30 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:21 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-04 4:14 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:01 PM...………………..
Home truths for who? ...........

You Remoaners can carry on with your self flagellation ..........

I wont be reading anymore pointless propaganda .........

Aw, c'mon Dave, give us you appraisal of the article. Tell us where you think it is, actually, wrong. Go on, I dare you!


I don't need to take any lectures from Germans .........Given their history........past and present ..........

So challenge it then. Of course you'd need to read it and it's a bit longer than the tweets and screechy headers you're more used to.


Don't need to challenge it ..........

Brexits got nothing to do with them ..........except they're gonna have to pick up our tab eventually ...............

Oh, you are so wrong. You really should read it. Not frightened of the truth, are you? Now why would that be?
userpelmetman
Posted: 4 December 2018 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24800
500050005000500020002000500100100100
Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Brian Kirby - 2018-12-04 6:19 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:39 PM

Bulletguy - 2018-12-04 4:30 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:21 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-04 4:14 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:01 PM...………………..
Home truths for who? ...........

You Remoaners can carry on with your self flagellation ..........

I wont be reading anymore pointless propaganda .........

Aw, c'mon Dave, give us you appraisal of the article. Tell us where you think it is, actually, wrong. Go on, I dare you!


I don't need to take any lectures from Germans .........Given their history........past and present ..........

So challenge it then. Of course you'd need to read it and it's a bit longer than the tweets and screechy headers you're more used to.


Don't need to challenge it ..........

Brexits got nothing to do with them ..........except they're gonna have to pick up our tab eventually ...............

Oh, you are so wrong. You really should read it. Not frightened of the truth, are you? Now why would that be?


Truth???........From the Remoaner propaganda machine??? .........

Now that is funny Brian ........



userBulletguy
Posted: 4 December 2018 9:27 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 9216
500020002000100100
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:39 PM

Bulletguy - 2018-12-04 4:30 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:21 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-04 4:14 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:01 PM...………………..
Home truths for who? ...........

You Remoaners can carry on with your self flagellation ..........

I wont be reading anymore pointless propaganda .........

Aw, c'mon Dave, give us you appraisal of the article. Tell us where you think it is, actually, wrong. Go on, I dare you!


I don't need to take any lectures from Germans .........Given their history........past and present ..........

So challenge it then. Of course you'd need to read it and it's a bit longer than the tweets and screechy headers you're more used to.


Don't need to challenge it ..........

Brexits got nothing to do with them ..........except they're gonna have to pick up our tab eventually ...............

**Face palm** ......duh.
userBulletguy
Posted: 4 December 2018 9:36 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 9216
500020002000100100
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


Brian Kirby - 2018-12-04 6:19 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:39 PM

Bulletguy - 2018-12-04 4:30 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:21 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-04 4:14 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:01 PM...………………..
Home truths for who? ...........

You Remoaners can carry on with your self flagellation ..........

I wont be reading anymore pointless propaganda .........

Aw, c'mon Dave, give us you appraisal of the article. Tell us where you think it is, actually, wrong. Go on, I dare you!


I don't need to take any lectures from Germans .........Given their history........past and present ..........

So challenge it then. Of course you'd need to read it and it's a bit longer than the tweets and screechy headers you're more used to.


Don't need to challenge it ..........

Brexits got nothing to do with them ..........except they're gonna have to pick up our tab eventually ...............

Oh, you are so wrong. You really should read it. Not frightened of the truth, are you? Now why would that be?

He's a lost cause....flat earth parallel universe dweller. I'm 100% convinced if given the chance of seeing Brexit on condition he blows a hole in his head, he'd take it!
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 5 December 2018 2:26 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


500050005000100010010010025
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2018-12-04 7:07 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-04 6:19 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:39 PM

Bulletguy - 2018-12-04 4:30 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:21 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-04 4:14 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:01 PM...………………..
Home truths for who? ...........

You Remoaners can carry on with your self flagellation ..........

I wont be reading anymore pointless propaganda .........

Aw, c'mon Dave, give us you appraisal of the article. Tell us where you think it is, actually, wrong. Go on, I dare you!


I don't need to take any lectures from Germans .........Given their history........past and present ..........

So challenge it then. Of course you'd need to read it and it's a bit longer than the tweets and screechy headers you're more used to.


Don't need to challenge it ..........

Brexits got nothing to do with them ..........except they're gonna have to pick up our tab eventually ...............

Oh, you are so wrong. You really should read it. Not frightened of the truth, are you? Now why would that be?


Truth???........From the Remoaner propaganda machine??? .........

Now that is funny Brian ........

So, just standing in the middle of the room with eyes tight shut, saying "you can't see me" again! Shame!
userpelmetman
Posted: 5 December 2018 3:49 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24800
500050005000500020002000500100100100
Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Brian Kirby - 2018-12-05 2:26 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 7:07 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-04 6:19 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:39 PM

Bulletguy - 2018-12-04 4:30 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:21 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-04 4:14 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-04 4:01 PM...………………..
Home truths for who? ...........

You Remoaners can carry on with your self flagellation ..........

I wont be reading anymore pointless propaganda .........

Aw, c'mon Dave, give us you appraisal of the article. Tell us where you think it is, actually, wrong. Go on, I dare you!


I don't need to take any lectures from Germans .........Given their history........past and present ..........

So challenge it then. Of course you'd need to read it and it's a bit longer than the tweets and screechy headers you're more used to.


Don't need to challenge it ..........

Brexits got nothing to do with them ..........except they're gonna have to pick up our tab eventually ...............

Oh, you are so wrong. You really should read it. Not frightened of the truth, are you? Now why would that be?


Truth???........From the Remoaner propaganda machine??? .........

Now that is funny Brian ........

So, just standing in the middle of the room with eyes tight shut, saying "you can't see me" again! Shame!


The only folk who should hang their heads in shame...........are your anti democratic Remoaners .......

usersnowie
Posted: 5 December 2018 4:31 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1335
100010010010025
Location: Lincoln area


Thanks for that “Bullet”,
It’s certainly pretty close to my understanding of the situation, and not the way I like to think of this country, particularly the apparent disregard for the younger people in the country.

It’s debatable whether a second referendum would solve the problem, so my preference would be for our elected representatives to have their debate and make the decision. The best chance we have to unite the country.

No more referenda, no binary votes, just where do we go now ?
May’s deal, No deal, or Remain.
May’s deal means another 3-4 years of being out negotiated (eu have a better hand and play the game better than we do).
No deal , but only with 3-4 years planning.
Or Remain, but not in the usual British way, but with real commitment, to making it better. This process has scared the other members, but from a minority position we were never going to achieve anything positive.

The alternative is to pause the whole process, have a general election, and vote for the party you want to take us forward.
It’s got to happen soon anyway, and Brexit really is only one issue alongside austerity,nhs,inequality etc etc.
Snowie
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 5 December 2018 4:50 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


500050005000100010010010025
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2018-12-05 3:49 PM...…………….The only folk who should hang their heads in shame...........are your anti democratic Remoaners .......

Anti-democratic? How?
userpelmetman
Posted: 5 December 2018 4:53 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24800
500050005000500020002000500100100100
Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Brian Kirby - 2018-12-05 4:50 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-05 3:49 PM...…………….The only folk who should hang their heads in shame...........are your anti democratic Remoaners .......

Anti-democratic? How?


Your preventing what the 52% voted for from happening ..........and replacing democracy with hypocrisy ..........

userantony1969
Posted: 5 December 2018 5:44 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


The special one

Posts: 10906
50005000500100100100100
Location: Sunny Huddersfield


snowie - 2018-12-05 4:31 PM

Thanks for that “Bullet”,
It’s certainly pretty close to my understanding of the situation, and not the way I like to think of this country, particularly the apparent disregard for the younger people in the country.

It’s debatable whether a second referendum would solve the problem, so my preference would be for our elected representatives to have their debate and make the decision. The best chance we have to unite the country.

No more referenda, no binary votes, just where do we go now ?
May’s deal, No deal, or Remain.
May’s deal means another 3-4 years of being out negotiated (eu have a better hand and play the game better than we do).
No deal , but only with 3-4 years planning.
Or Remain, but not in the usual British way, but with real commitment, to making it better. This process has scared the other members, but from a minority position we were never going to achieve anything positive.

The alternative is to pause the whole process, have a general election, and vote for the party you want to take us forward.
It’s got to happen soon anyway, and Brexit really is only one issue alongside austerity,nhs,inequality etc etc.
Snowie


Lordy I must have missed the last election
userBulletguy
Posted: 5 December 2018 5:58 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 9216
500020002000100100
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


snowie - 2018-12-05 4:31 PM

Thanks for that “Bullet”,
It’s certainly pretty close to my understanding of the situation, and not the way I like to think of this country, particularly the apparent disregard for the younger people in the country.

It’s debatable whether a second referendum would solve the problem, so my preference would be for our elected representatives to have their debate and make the decision. The best chance we have to unite the country.

No more referenda, no binary votes, just where do we go now ?
May’s deal, No deal, or Remain.
May’s deal means another 3-4 years of being out negotiated (eu have a better hand and play the game better than we do).
No deal , but only with 3-4 years planning.
Or Remain, but not in the usual British way, but with real commitment, to making it better. This process has scared the other members, but from a minority position we were never going to achieve anything positive.

The alternative is to pause the whole process, have a general election, and vote for the party you want to take us forward.
It’s got to happen soon anyway, and Brexit really is only one issue alongside austerity,nhs,inequality etc etc.
Snowie

Alan needless to say my view is we remain and i agree on commitment to making it better rather than cherry picking bits we like and wailing about those we don't. That an ECJ Advocate General has also said Article 50 can be unilaterally revoked by the UK is enough for me to suggest we cease damaging the country further than what it already has been. The sheer madness of Brexit has been a social experiment which went badly wrong from the outset. All those that crowed gleefully about £350m a week to the NHS, "taking back control of borders" (we've always had borders but May slashed the funding and staffing), and "taking 'our' country back" (whatever that means), "ending freedom of movement (immigration)" etc etc......Johnson, Gove and co all ran off and left someone else to clear up the mess they'd created.

Since the advisory referendum, which few understood or knew exactly what they were voting for and why, much more has now come out into the public domain, and an increasing amount of people are not only don't like what they've been seeing, but rightly feel they were sold a pig in a poke by a bunch of false prophets trotting out wild claims, myths and lies they couldn't possibly deliver on.

Imo the process should also have been immediately halted whilst the NCA carry out investigations into Arron Banks funding as that's an ongoing criminal case still to be heard which is a very serious matter. May also needs to come clean as to why she blocked the security services from investigating his financial activities two years ago as HS. She's still not answered that and has something of a reputation for blocking things she doesn't want the public to know.
userantony1969
Posted: 5 December 2018 6:03 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


The special one

Posts: 10906
50005000500100100100100
Location: Sunny Huddersfield


We had a referendum which was quite clear and then a general election which was quite clear and voted on by 80% of the electorate for two parties on the back of taking us out of the single market and customs union ... Now whats so confusing
userpelmetman
Posted: 5 December 2018 6:05 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24800
500050005000500020002000500100100100
Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Bulletguy - 2018-12-05 5:58 PM

snowie - 2018-12-05 4:31 PM

Thanks for that “Bullet”,
It’s certainly pretty close to my understanding of the situation, and not the way I like to think of this country, particularly the apparent disregard for the younger people in the country.

It’s debatable whether a second referendum would solve the problem, so my preference would be for our elected representatives to have their debate and make the decision. The best chance we have to unite the country.

No more referenda, no binary votes, just where do we go now ?
May’s deal, No deal, or Remain.
May’s deal means another 3-4 years of being out negotiated (eu have a better hand and play the game better than we do).
No deal , but only with 3-4 years planning.
Or Remain, but not in the usual British way, but with real commitment, to making it better. This process has scared the other members, but from a minority position we were never going to achieve anything positive.

The alternative is to pause the whole process, have a general election, and vote for the party you want to take us forward.
It’s got to happen soon anyway, and Brexit really is only one issue alongside austerity,nhs,inequality etc etc.
Snowie

Alan needless to say my view is we remain and i agree on commitment to making it better rather than cherry picking bits we like and wailing about those we don't. That an ECJ Advocate General has also said Article 50 can be unilaterally revoked by the UK is enough for me to suggest we cease damaging the country further than what it already has been. The sheer madness of Brexit has been a social experiment which went badly wrong from the outset. All those that crowed gleefully about £350m a week to the NHS, "taking back control of borders" (we've always had borders but May slashed the funding and staffing), and "taking 'our' country back" (whatever that means), "ending freedom of movement (immigration)" etc etc......Johnson, Gove and co all ran off and left someone else to clear up the mess they'd created.

Since the advisory referendum, which few understood or knew exactly what they were voting for and why, much more has now come out into the public domain, and an increasing amount of people are not only don't like what they've been seeing, but rightly feel they were sold a pig in a poke by a bunch of false prophets trotting out wild claims, myths and lies they couldn't possibly deliver on.

Imo the process should also have been immediately halted whilst the NCA carry out investigations into Arron Banks funding as that's an ongoing criminal case still to be heard which is a very serious matter. May also needs to come clean as to why she blocked the security services from investigating his financial activities two years ago as HS. She's still not answered that and has something of a reputation for blocking things she doesn't want the public to know.


So the views of you two 48%'s should trump the views of the 52%?.........how very democratic ........

But you are both Socialists so the views of the "people" are irrelevant .........



userBulletguy
Posted: 5 December 2018 9:39 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 9216
500020002000100100
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


pelmetman - 2018-12-05 6:05 PM

Bulletguy - 2018-12-05 5:58 PM

snowie - 2018-12-05 4:31 PM

Thanks for that “Bullet”,
It’s certainly pretty close to my understanding of the situation, and not the way I like to think of this country, particularly the apparent disregard for the younger people in the country.

It’s debatable whether a second referendum would solve the problem, so my preference would be for our elected representatives to have their debate and make the decision. The best chance we have to unite the country.

No more referenda, no binary votes, just where do we go now ?
May’s deal, No deal, or Remain.
May’s deal means another 3-4 years of being out negotiated (eu have a better hand and play the game better than we do).
No deal , but only with 3-4 years planning.
Or Remain, but not in the usual British way, but with real commitment, to making it better. This process has scared the other members, but from a minority position we were never going to achieve anything positive.

The alternative is to pause the whole process, have a general election, and vote for the party you want to take us forward.
It’s got to happen soon anyway, and Brexit really is only one issue alongside austerity,nhs,inequality etc etc.
Snowie

Alan needless to say my view is we remain and i agree on commitment to making it better rather than cherry picking bits we like and wailing about those we don't. That an ECJ Advocate General has also said Article 50 can be unilaterally revoked by the UK is enough for me to suggest we cease damaging the country further than what it already has been. The sheer madness of Brexit has been a social experiment which went badly wrong from the outset. All those that crowed gleefully about £350m a week to the NHS, "taking back control of borders" (we've always had borders but May slashed the funding and staffing), and "taking 'our' country back" (whatever that means), "ending freedom of movement (immigration)" etc etc......Johnson, Gove and co all ran off and left someone else to clear up the mess they'd created.

Since the advisory referendum, which few understood or knew exactly what they were voting for and why, much more has now come out into the public domain, and an increasing amount of people are not only don't like what they've been seeing, but rightly feel they were sold a pig in a poke by a bunch of false prophets trotting out wild claims, myths and lies they couldn't possibly deliver on.

Imo the process should also have been immediately halted whilst the NCA carry out investigations into Arron Banks funding as that's an ongoing criminal case still to be heard which is a very serious matter. May also needs to come clean as to why she blocked the security services from investigating his financial activities two years ago as HS. She's still not answered that and has something of a reputation for blocking things she doesn't want the public to know.


So the views of you two 48%'s should trump the views of the 52%?.........how very democratic ........

How many times have you had this explained to you now about you selective quoting? Yet again today from Brian. And remind me again, what was it this chap said about a 52-48 vote? Oh dear.....let's brush it under the carpet and hope everyone will forget about it.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-52-48_uk_5820dc7ce4b020461a1d5fd9

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-05 6:31 PM

Yes, 17.4 million was a 51% majority of the votes cast - but it was only 38% of the electorate, and 26% of the population. So the "Brexit won" claims are only true if very selectively applied.

What you are both pursuing is a personal "win" that would leave the majority of people worse off. What I am pursuing is a future that leaves the majority of people better off.

You need to declare that clearly when you say that another referendum would be un democratic. Then ask people what the want. If they then say they want Brexit, fine; but until Brexiters are honest about what they are pursuing the results of any referendum will be unsafe.
usersnowie
Posted: 5 December 2018 9:57 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1335
100010010010025
Location: Lincoln area




You are both Socialists so the views of the "people" are irrelevant ...

Democratic socialist if you don’t mind

I’d have more respect for your arguments if your ; I hesitate to call them leaders because they are so far back from the front line, but you know who I mean, Gove, Raab, Davis and Rees-Mogg, would get stuck in and try to come up with a plan , even this late in the day.
They really have no more idea than the rest of us.
To respect the arguments I need to respect the individuals, and that’s not going to happen any time soon.
Snowie

Edited by snowie 2018-12-05 10:02 PM
userBulletguy
Posted: 5 December 2018 10:31 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 9216
500020002000100100
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


pelmetman - 2018-12-05 6:05 PM

But you are both Socialists so the views of the "people" are irrelevant .........


snowie - 2018-12-05 9:57 PM
Democratic socialist if you don’t mind

I’d have more respect for your arguments if your ; I hesitate to call them leaders because they are so far back from the front line, but you know who I mean, Gove, Raab, Davis and Rees-Mogg, would get stuck in and try to come up with a plan , even this late in the day.
They really have no more idea than the rest of us.
To respect the arguments I need to respect the individuals, and that’s not going to happen any time soon.
Snowie

Not forgetting buffoon clown Johnson when Foreign Secretary whose Parliament gaffe and utter ineptness succeeded in getting Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffes sentence increased!! At least the current FS, for all his failings as Sec of Health, succeeded in securing the release of Matthew Hedges sentenced to life in the UAE.

Rees-Mogg lives in a timewarp. Maybe that's what Brexiters find so appealing though i fail to see what else they have in common.
userpelmetman
Posted: 6 December 2018 8:19 AM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24800
500050005000500020002000500100100100
Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


snowie - 2018-12-05 9:57 PM



You are both Socialists so the views of the "people" are irrelevant ...

Democratic socialist if you don’t mind

I’d have more respect for your arguments if your ; I hesitate to call them leaders because they are so far back from the front line, but you know who I mean, Gove, Raab, Davis and Rees-Mogg, would get stuck in and try to come up with a plan , even this late in the day.
They really have no more idea than the rest of us.
To respect the arguments I need to respect the individuals, and that’s not going to happen any time soon.
Snowie


Democratic?...........So you respect the out come of the 2016 referendum? ........

Socialist?................So you have respect for Corbyn? ...........

Your not bothered that he's turned Labour into the New Nasty Party? ..........

usersnowie
Posted: 6 December 2018 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1335
100010010010025
Location: Lincoln area


pelmetman - 2018-12-06 8:19
Democratic?...........So you respect the out come of the 2016 referendum? ........

Socialist?................So you have respect for Corbyn? ...........

Your not bothered that he's turned Labour into the New Nasty Party? ..........



Yes; and if the next one is granted by Parliament I’ll respect that one too.

I respect Corbyn, but don’t support him, I prefer my politicians to move on, he’s stuck in the 70’s.
But as for nastiness, the Tories and other right wing parties are much nastier.
Snowie
userJohn52
Posted: 6 December 2018 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


Forum master

Posts: 4129
2000200010025
Location: Pissindoon, Scotland


This is the best piece I have read on Britain - from a German newspaper. There are so many great quotes in it its hard to pick one out.
Maybe if we had mainstream journalism of that quality in Britain, instead of being dominated by tax exiles intent on stopping the EU from making them pay tax, and taking away our European Human Rights to 'take back control' over us for themselves, we would never have got near Brexit.
The likes of Antony & Pelmet would not have had such poisonous nonsense permanently implanted in their heads in the first place.
As the youngsters who never got a vote are saying '"All advocates of Brexit, basically old white men, will eventually be gone. We will still be here."
userantony1969
Posted: 6 December 2018 2:10 PM
Subject: RE: Interesting article
 


The special one

Posts: 10906
50005000500100100100100
Location: Sunny Huddersfield


snowie - 2018-12-06 1:15 PM

pelmetman - 2018-12-06 8:19
Democratic?...........So you respect the out come of the 2016 referendum? ........

Socialist?................So you have respect for Corbyn? ...........

Your not bothered that he's turned Labour into the New Nasty Party? ..........



Yes; and if the next one is granted by Parliament I’ll respect that one too.

I respect Corbyn, but don’t support him, I prefer my politicians to move on, he’s stuck in the 70’s.
But as for nastiness, the Tories and other right wing parties are much nastier.
Snowie


Kate Osamor a Tory ??? ... If we are on about bang up to date comparisons of nastiness in our main parties ???
Jump to page : First 1 2 Last
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread
Jump to forum :


(Delete all cookies set by this site)(Return to Homepage)

Any problems? Contact the administrator