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It's starting to look like EU need us.....
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userpelmetman
Posted: 13 October 2021 10:13 PM
Subject: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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More then we need EU ........

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10088983/EU-climbs-Northern-Ireland-Brexit-agreement-agreeing-axe-hated-goods-checks.html

That'll have the LOSER Chimps & Co gibbering .......
userCurtainRaiser
Posted: 13 October 2021 11:34 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 
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You're just making up realities now, where the previous deal - negotiated and signed by your darling with an 80-seat majority - was someone else's fault.

Sefcovic: “The EU will not agree to a renegotiation of the Protocol. The EU’s focus remains on identifying long-term, flexible and practical solutions to address issues related to the practical implementation of the Protocol that citizens and businesses in NI are experiencing.” Interested in practical solutions. Not dogmatic. While sticking to the agreement.

But the ECJ is staying. All Johnson and co have done is demonstrated that the uk is untrustworthy.

Me? I love the way most of the EU deal with Brexit now as a minor agenda point in Commission meetings and right leaning UK media are still obsessed on perceived point scoring. It's adorable

Edited by CurtainRaiser 2021-10-13 11:39 PM




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userJohn52
Posted: 14 October 2021 6:07 AM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


The special one

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pelmetman - 2021-10-13 10:13 PM

More then we need EU ........

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10088983/EU-climbs-Northern-Ireland-Brexit-agreement-agreeing-axe-hated-goods-checks.html

That'll have the LOSER Chimps & Co gibbering .......


I am trying to match Brian Kirby's patience so I will try again.
How many more lies would the Daily Mail have to print before you stop believing and quoting them?
userpelmetman
Posted: 14 October 2021 7:50 AM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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Gibber gibber ..........
usercolin
Posted: 14 October 2021 9:53 AM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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It would seem that the EU have been formulating new proposals to get the protocol working, meanwhile the UK knowing this decided to make a last minute demand so it looked like they where somehow 'in charge'.
It will be interesting to see what happens to the 'red line' of the ECJ.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 14 October 2021 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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pelmetman - 2021-10-14 7:50 AM
Gibber gibber ..........

Dave, I think that is one of the most intelligent things I think you have ever said on here.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 14 October 2021 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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colin - 2021-10-14 9:53 AM
It would seem that the EU have been formulating new proposals to get the protocol working, meanwhile the UK knowing this decided to make a last minute demand so it looked like they where somehow 'in charge'.
It will be interesting to see what happens to the 'red line' of the ECJ.

The ECJ is only relevant because NI remains in the single market. NI only remains in the single market because the Belfast Agreement cannot be sustained were it to leave. Maintaining NI within the single market automatically creates a customs border between NI and UK.

The only person who seemed to think otherwise when advised this would be the outcome, was Johnson - who assured the Ulster Unionists that nothing of the sort would happen. Despite this assurance, he went on to sign an international treaty enshrining NI within the single market.

He now appears surprised that the advice he was given before he signed has remained true after he signed.

He is no more, and no less, than the author of his own, our, and NI's, discomfort.

The pigeons may still be on the wing - albeit looking a bit bruised and battered - but one day, sooner or later, they will all head back to their roost!

I'm just waiting for the moment when the child in the crowd blurts out the truth about his new suit of clothes!
userBulletguy
Posted: 14 October 2021 3:30 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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Brian Kirby - 2021-10-14 12:41 PM

pelmetman - 2021-10-14 7:50 AM
Gibber gibber ..........

Dave, I think that is one of the most intelligent things I think you have ever said on here.





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userCurtainRaiser
Posted: 14 October 2021 5:43 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 
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A considered evaluation of what Johnson and co are playing at.

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/brexit-northern-ireland-protocol-david-frost-eu-trade-war-1247099

Now I suspect Mr Frost rather likes the idea of a few years engaged in a bitter dispute with the EU. But the price would be declining investment, currency volatility, international isolation, perpetual business uncertainty and trade war. That decline in investment is already happening, and will presumably only continue until we rejoin the Biggest, Richest Free-Trade Bloc on the Planet, that happens to be only 21 Miles away ...

https://t.co/Zzo6dzWkcm



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userpelmetman
Posted: 15 October 2021 8:11 AM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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colin - 2021-10-14 9:53 AM

It would seem that the EU have been formulating new proposals to get the protocol working, meanwhile the UK knowing this decided to make a last minute demand so it looked like they where somehow 'in charge'.
It will be interesting to see what happens to the 'red line' of the ECJ.


Its standard practice to demand more than you actually want .........

Personaly I'd be more than happy to pass NI on the EU as a leaving gift ........

Seeing as its only a matter of time before the Protties are out numbered by the Bogies .........
userBarryd999
Posted: 15 October 2021 9:16 AM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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Brian Kirby - 2021-10-14 12:41 PM

pelmetman - 2021-10-14 7:50 AM
Gibber gibber ..........

Dave, I think that is one of the most intelligent things I think you have ever said on here.


Bit unfair Brian.

I am sure he as uttered the odd Wibble.







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userCurtainRaiser
Posted: 15 October 2021 9:50 AM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 
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What is funny is that the concessions "won" by Mr Frost means UK aligning on EU standards in the areas that they drop checks. The only way a smart border system would work is if the UK and EU align on data sharing and data protection - any system that stores personal data will involve the UK keeping GDPR.

So these latest developments are a good thing, because the only way it is going to work is closer alignment with the EU. It just wont be called that and Im sure Johnson will deny the reality of it. As will the members of his cult.
userBarryd999
Posted: 15 October 2021 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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CurtainRaiser - 2021-10-15 9:50 AM

What is funny is that the concessions "won" by Mr Frost means UK aligning on EU standards in the areas that they drop checks. The only way a smart border system would work is if the UK and EU align on data sharing and data protection - any system that stores personal data will involve the UK keeping GDPR.

So these latest developments are a good thing, because the only way it is going to work is closer alignment with the EU. It just wont be called that and Im sure Johnson will deny the reality of it. As will the members of his cult.


I suspect this is what will happen across the board. They will just spend all their time trying to disguise it to save face. Its already happened as we know and they have still kicked the can down the road with incoming checks. We are in deep sh1t and continuing to try and stuff the square pegs into the round holes was never going to and will never work. I dont care what they call it as long as it happens.

Wake me up when they reinstate Freedom of Movement but call it something else so I can naff off to Provence again all summer instead of Scotland and the Lake District.
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 October 2021 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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CurtainRaiser - 2021-10-15 9:50 AM

What is funny is that the concessions "won" by Mr Frost means UK aligning on EU standards in the areas that they drop checks. The only way a smart border system would work is if the UK and EU align on data sharing and data protection - any system that stores personal data will involve the UK keeping GDPR.

So these latest developments are a good thing, because the only way it is going to work is closer alignment with the EU. It just wont be called that and Im sure Johnson will deny the reality of it. As will the members of his cult.


The UK like every other country in the world has to comply with other countries standards, so I dont see why you LOSERS see it as a concession? .............

At least we wont be paying £350 million quid a week for the privilige ..........

userCurtainRaiser
Posted: 15 October 2021 1:53 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 
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pelmetman - 2021-10-15 10:59 AM

CurtainRaiser - 2021-10-15 9:50 AM

What is funny is that the concessions "won" by Mr Frost means UK aligning on EU standards in the areas that they drop checks. The only way a smart border system would work is if the UK and EU align on data sharing and data protection - any system that stores personal data will involve the UK keeping GDPR.

So these latest developments are a good thing, because the only way it is going to work is closer alignment with the EU. It just wont be called that and Im sure Johnson will deny the reality of it. As will the members of his cult.


The UK like every other country in the world has to comply with other countries standards, so I dont see why you LOSERS see it as a concession? .............

At least we wont be paying £350 million quid a week for the privilige ..........



Yet again you demonstrate your ignorance.

Remember the level playing field arguments over the deal?

And how do you hope to get trade deals if you are not prepared to water down our current EU standards?

And as to the £350m, why has Johnson had to put up NI to fund the NHS?
usercolin
Posted: 15 October 2021 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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pelmetman - 2021-10-15 8:11 AM

colin - 2021-10-14 9:53 AM

It would seem that the EU have been formulating new proposals to get the protocol working, meanwhile the UK knowing this decided to make a last minute demand so it looked like they where somehow 'in charge'.
It will be interesting to see what happens to the 'red line' of the ECJ.


Its standard practice to demand more than you actually want .........

Personaly I'd be more than happy to pass NI on the EU as a leaving gift ........

Seeing as its only a matter of time before the Protties are out numbered by the Bogies .........


I've spent many years negotiating with unions, once you set out a 'red line' you don't concede that unless you want to look a fool and weak. As both sides have set the ECJ as a 'red line' one or other seem set to get egg on their face, unless there is some sort of compromise such as a NI/UK representative with a temporary place on ECJ with matter relating to the Protocol.
That you are so enamoured of Sinn Fien and the SNP that you wish to see them attain their goals is duly noted.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 15 October 2021 4:41 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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Barryd999 - 2021-10-15 9:16 AM
Brian Kirby - 2021-10-14 12:41 PM
pelmetman - 2021-10-14 7:50 AM
Gibber gibber ..........

Dave, I think that is one of the most intelligent things I think you have ever said on here.

Bit unfair Brian.
I am sure he as uttered the odd Wibble.

True Barry, but I've always felt a gibber was somehow more positive than a wibble.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 15 October 2021 5:05 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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pelmetman - 2021-10-15 10:59 AM............................
1 The UK like every other country in the world has to comply with other countries standards, so I dont see why you LOSERS see it as a concession? .............

2 At least we wont be paying £350 million quid a week for the privilige ..........

1 Really Dave? Makes one wonder why on earth we left the single market, then, doesn't it?

2 The EU did not cost the UK £350m a week, because that figure omitted the UK’s rebate, leaving £252M per week. Of this, £87M came back to the UK in payment for EU projects in the UK, leaving a net cost of £165M.

Johnson and Vote leave were both censured for that lie during the referendum, so why are you still peddling it? If you can't make sense you could at least try to be accurate.
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 October 2021 5:29 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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Brian Kirby - 2021-10-15 5:05 PM

pelmetman - 2021-10-15 10:59 AM............................
1 The UK like every other country in the world has to comply with other countries standards, so I dont see why you LOSERS see it as a concession? .............

2 At least we wont be paying £350 million quid a week for the privilige ..........

1 Really Dave? Makes one wonder why on earth we left the single market, then, doesn't it?

2 The EU did not cost the UK £350m a week, because that figure omitted the UK’s rebate, leaving £252M per week. Of this, £87M came back to the UK in payment for EU projects in the UK, leaving a net cost of £165M.

Johnson and Vote leave were both censured for that lie during the referendum, so why are you still peddling it? If you can't make sense you could at least try to be accurate.


The gross figure WAS £350 million a week.......the fact that the EU gave us back some small change hardly makes up for the billions British workers lost due to cheap EU labour does it? ............
userCurtainRaiser
Posted: 15 October 2021 5:37 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 
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pelmetman - 2021-10-15 5:29 PM

Brian Kirby - 2021-10-15 5:05 PM

pelmetman - 2021-10-15 10:59 AM............................
1 The UK like every other country in the world has to comply with other countries standards, so I dont see why you LOSERS see it as a concession? .............

2 At least we wont be paying £350 million quid a week for the privilige ..........

1 Really Dave? Makes one wonder why on earth we left the single market, then, doesn't it?

2 The EU did not cost the UK £350m a week, because that figure omitted the UK’s rebate, leaving £252M per week. Of this, £87M came back to the UK in payment for EU projects in the UK, leaving a net cost of £165M.

Johnson and Vote leave were both censured for that lie during the referendum, so why are you still peddling it? If you can't make sense you could at least try to be accurate.


The gross figure WAS £350 million a week.......the fact that the EU gave us back some small change hardly makes up for the billions British workers lost due to cheap EU labour does it? ............


You still haven't answered the question as to how you hope to get trade deals if you are not prepared to water down our current EU standards?
userGarySueLola
Posted: 15 October 2021 6:47 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 
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pelmetman - 2021-10-13 10:13 PM

More then we need EU ........

.


Er...no!

Still, if it makes you feel better for voting the wrong way...let's say yes to humour you (but that's no more true than the words on the big red bus that you fell in love with).

Keep on fawning to the poster of the fat controller that you no doubt have pinned up on your bedroom wall (I can hear you now, ooh...aah..I fantasise about being Carrie...take me oh fat sweaty one...)
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 15 October 2021 7:23 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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pelmetman - 2021-10-15 5:29 PM
Brian Kirby - 2021-10-15 5:05 PM
pelmetman - 2021-10-15 10:59 AM............................
1 The UK like every other country in the world has to comply with other countries standards, so I dont see why you LOSERS see it as a concession? .............
2 At least we wont be paying £350 million quid a week for the privilige ..........

1 Really Dave? Makes one wonder why on earth we left the single market, then, doesn't it?
2 The EU did not cost the UK £350m a week, because that figure omitted the UK’s rebate, leaving £252M per week. Of this, £87M came back to the UK in payment for EU projects in the UK, leaving a net cost of £165M.
Johnson and Vote leave were both censured for that lie during the referendum, so why are you still peddling it? If you can't make sense you could at least try to be accurate.

1 The gross figure WAS £350 million a week.......
2 the fact that the EU gave us back some small change hardly makes up for the billions British workers lost due to cheap EU labour does it? ............

1 So if you owe someone £35, and they offer you a £9.80 discount on that, on top of which they owe you £8.70, how much do you pay them? £35, or £ 16.50?
2 Got the facts and figures to back that? No-one forced to UK to accept cheap labour, that was the business owners.
userBulletguy
Posted: 15 October 2021 7:27 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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pelmetman - 2021-10-15 5:29 PM

Brian Kirby - 2021-10-15 5:05 PM

pelmetman - 2021-10-15 10:59 AM............................
1 The UK like every other country in the world has to comply with other countries standards, so I dont see why you LOSERS see it as a concession? .............

2 At least we wont be paying £350 million quid a week for the privilige ..........

1 Really Dave? Makes one wonder why on earth we left the single market, then, doesn't it?

2 The EU did not cost the UK £350m a week, because that figure omitted the UK’s rebate, leaving £252M per week. Of this, £87M came back to the UK in payment for EU projects in the UK, leaving a net cost of £165M.

Johnson and Vote leave were both censured for that lie during the referendum, so why are you still peddling it? If you can't make sense you could at least try to be accurate.


The gross figure WAS £350 million a week.......

That's not what you said. You said;
pelmetman - 2021-10-15 10:59 AM

At least we wont be paying £350 million quid a week for the privilige ..........


which as we ALL know is an outright lie.........so why are you still peddling that Brexit LIE?

As Brian said, Johnson and Vote Leave campaign were censured over peddling that false figure which worked on the dimwits five years ago. The actual figure we paid to the EU was £165 million so STOP LYING.
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 October 2021 7:31 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


Walks with the gods

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Brian Kirby - 2021-10-15 7:23 PM

pelmetman - 2021-10-15 5:29 PM
Brian Kirby - 2021-10-15 5:05 PM
pelmetman - 2021-10-15 10:59 AM............................
1 The UK like every other country in the world has to comply with other countries standards, so I dont see why you LOSERS see it as a concession? .............
2 At least we wont be paying £350 million quid a week for the privilige ..........

1 Really Dave? Makes one wonder why on earth we left the single market, then, doesn't it?
2 The EU did not cost the UK £350m a week, because that figure omitted the UK’s rebate, leaving £252M per week. Of this, £87M came back to the UK in payment for EU projects in the UK, leaving a net cost of £165M.
Johnson and Vote leave were both censured for that lie during the referendum, so why are you still peddling it? If you can't make sense you could at least try to be accurate.

1 The gross figure WAS £350 million a week.......
2 the fact that the EU gave us back some small change hardly makes up for the billions British workers lost due to cheap EU labour does it? ............

1 So if you owe someone £35, and they offer you a £9.80 discount on that, on top of which they owe you £8.70, how much do you pay them? £35, or £ 16.50?
2 Got the facts and figures to back that? No-one forced to UK to accept cheap labour, that was the business owners.


1.......The £350,000,000 was just the admission fee .........

2.......Total Crap!.......The EU forces all of their club members to accept free movement.....eventually .......
userCurtainRaiser
Posted: 15 October 2021 8:23 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 
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Temporary visas for HGV, Butchers, Abattoir workers, farm workers……it’s almost as if we would be better off without Brexit.
userBulletguy
Posted: 15 October 2021 8:25 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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pelmetman - 2021-10-15 7:31 PM

Brian Kirby - 2021-10-15 7:23 PM

pelmetman - 2021-10-15 5:29 PM
Brian Kirby - 2021-10-15 5:05 PM
pelmetman - 2021-10-15 10:59 AM............................
1 The UK like every other country in the world has to comply with other countries standards, so I dont see why you LOSERS see it as a concession? .............
2 At least we wont be paying £350 million quid a week for the privilige ..........

1 Really Dave? Makes one wonder why on earth we left the single market, then, doesn't it?
2 The EU did not cost the UK £350m a week, because that figure omitted the UK’s rebate, leaving £252M per week. Of this, £87M came back to the UK in payment for EU projects in the UK, leaving a net cost of £165M.
Johnson and Vote leave were both censured for that lie during the referendum, so why are you still peddling it? If you can't make sense you could at least try to be accurate.

1 The gross figure WAS £350 million a week.......
2 the fact that the EU gave us back some small change hardly makes up for the billions British workers lost due to cheap EU labour does it? ............

1 So if you owe someone £35, and they offer you a £9.80 discount on that, on top of which they owe you £8.70, how much do you pay them? £35, or £ 16.50?
2 Got the facts and figures to back that? No-one forced to UK to accept cheap labour, that was the business owners.


1.......The £350,000,000 was just the admission fee .........


Answer the question instead of deflecting because you've been caught out LYING......again as usual.

2.......Total Crap!.......The EU forces all of their club members to accept free movement.....eventually .......


And where are your facts and figures to prove that?

Come on, quit the waffle and bluster and start BACKING UP YOUR WILD CLAIMS WITH FACTS.

Edited by Bulletguy 2021-10-15 8:26 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 16 October 2021 8:44 AM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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CurtainRaiser - 2021-10-15 8:23 PM

Temporary visas for HGV, Butchers, Abattoir workers, farm workers……it’s almost as if we would be better off without Brexit.


Nope........before Brexit they had access to our benefit system, so their low pay was topped up by the taxpayer .........

userCurtainRaiser
Posted: 16 October 2021 8:55 AM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 
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pelmetman - 2021-10-16 8:44 AM

CurtainRaiser - 2021-10-15 8:23 PM

Temporary visas for HGV, Butchers, Abattoir workers, farm workers……it’s almost as if we would be better off without Brexit.


Nope........before Brexit they had access to our benefit system, so their low pay was topped up by the taxpayer .........



You still haven't answered the question as to how you hope to get trade deals if you are not prepared to water down our current EU standards?
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 16 October 2021 6:23 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


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pelmetman - 2021-10-15 7:31 PM
Brian Kirby - 2021-10-15 7:23 PM
pelmetman - 2021-10-15 5:29 PM
Brian Kirby - 2021-10-15 5:05 PM
pelmetman - 2021-10-15 10:59 AM............................
1 The UK like every other country in the world has to comply with other countries standards, so I dont see why you LOSERS see it as a concession? .............
2 At least we wont be paying £350 million quid a week for the privilige ..........

1 Really Dave? Makes one wonder why on earth we left the single market, then, doesn't it?
2 The EU did not cost the UK £350m a week, because that figure omitted the UK’s rebate, leaving £252M per week. Of this, £87M came back to the UK in payment for EU projects in the UK, leaving a net cost of £165M.
Johnson and Vote leave were both censured for that lie during the referendum, so why are you still peddling it? If you can't make sense you could at least try to be accurate.

1 The gross figure WAS £350 million a week.......
2 the fact that the EU gave us back some small change hardly makes up for the billions British workers lost due to cheap EU labour does it? ............

1 So if you owe someone £35, and they offer you a £9.80 discount on that, on top of which they owe you £8.70, how much do you pay them? £35, or £ 16.50?
2 Got the facts and figures to back that? No-one forced to UK to accept cheap labour, that was the business owners.

1.......The £350,000,000 was just the admission fee .........
2.......Total Crap!.......The EU forces all of their club members to accept free movement.....eventually .......

1 An admission fee is what you pay to get in. Post the Thatcher rebate we never paid £350M / week, or anything like it. It was, an remains, a blatant, scaremongering, lie which you have obviously swallowed hook, line, and sinker.

2 "Total crap" isn't an argument, and your unsupported rejection of my point is not factual.

Free movement is not an unconditional EU right. It was a UK government that decided not to restrict (indeed encouraged), entry from the fifth and sixth enlargements, where the other states applied the permitted restrictions. That decision focused the migrations into the UK.

The only way cheap labour affects pay rates in host states is when that cheap labour is employed within the state. The EU didn't employ those migrants in the UK, UK businesses did.

So, the UK government first let then all in at once, and then UK businesses lapped them up. How is that the fault of the EU?

In addition, UK Conservative MPs and MEPs were in favour of both enlargements because they thought the new entrants would prevent EU pursuing deeper integration. That turned out to be a bit of a Trojan horse, didn't it? So, if there was a loss of earnings for UK workers, it was brought about by UK politicians and businesses.

As to your "billions" that British workers lost, the widespread decline in pay rates followed the 2008 financial crash, by which time many of the eastern migrants were already here. Pay falls when unemployment rises. But, how could 2.4 million migrants have gained employment at a time of falling employment? Answer: they didn't. They were first absorbed into the economy, and then came the crash, which caused unemployment to rise generally (although not by as much as in previous recessions), including for the migrants. Employment then recovered to pre-recession levels within about 5 years, while production is still recovering.

So, recession, not immigration, was the problem - and the EU didn't cause the recession either!
userpelmetman
Posted: 16 October 2021 6:39 PM
Subject: RE: It's starting to look like EU need us.....
 


Walks with the gods

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Brian Kirby - 2021-10-16 6:23 PM

So, recession, not immigration, was the problem - and the EU didn't cause the recession either!


SO .......Seeing as you are such an "Expert" ......

Why are we not in a deep recession with 800.000+ looking for a job as PREDICTED BY YOU EXPERTS??? ........

Keep on Blah blahing Brian ........

Coz I like watching you making a Muppet of yourself ............

Edited by pelmetman 2021-10-16 6:42 PM




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