derek pringle Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Hi, All the commentators/Pundits and a lot of Labour politicians seem not to know Labours position on Brexit as Labours Leaders are not declaring their position clearly. Think their position is this:- If they want Brexit they certainly don't want the Tories to be the ones to achieve it. It does not seem like a General Election will take place before its due date [end of term] I think they will vote to extend Article 50 until the next general election has been held, if they win fine,if not they are in no worse a position than now,i.e., still in the EU. I firmly believe they have their eyes on only one jewel, an election, they will put Part before country. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 "Corbyns Labour's" hope is that the voters either .......don't know 8-) ......don't mind :-S .........don't care *-)...........that he's a Communist *-) .......... Brexit is a useful distraction in that respect :-| ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 derek pringle - 2018-11-22 9:19 AM Labours Leaders are not declaring their position clearly. Corbyn said he 'voted Remain in the 2016 referendum but if there were to be another "I don't know how I would vote - what the options would be at that time".' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46250607 How much clearer could he be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-11-22 9:32 AM "Corbyns Labour's" hope is that the voters either .......don't know 8-) ......don't mind :-S .........don't care *-)...........that he's a Communist *-) .......... Brexit is a useful distraction in that respect :-| ........ He wants to look at the options before casting his vote, as any sensible person would. Not just vote one way or the other without knowing what they were voting for. Labour should be in a better position to negotiate than Theresa May, because they wouldn't be blackmailed by the DUP and probably not so much infighting in their own cabinet. Politically Labour is closer to the rest of the EU than the Tories are which helps too. But they don't know what state the situation will be in by that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 derek pringle - 2018-11-22 9:19 AM Hi, All the commentators/Pundits and a lot of Labour politicians seem not to know Labours position on Brexit as Labours Leaders are not declaring their position clearly. Think their position is this:- If they want Brexit they certainly don't want the Tories to be the ones to achieve it. It does not seem like a General Election will take place before its due date [end of term] I think they will vote to extend Article 50 until the next general election has been held, if they win fine,if not they are in no worse a position than now,i.e., still in the EU. I firmly believe they have their eyes on only one jewel, an election, they will put Part before country. cheers derek Both Labour and the Tories are putting party before country. Its clear there is no longer a public majority in favour of leaving and there is a majority in favour of a second vote. 70%+ of Labour members are in favour of a vote. Corbyn and labour should have been the champions of such a vote but they are more interested in a general election which will achieve nothing, probably end up with a hung parliament again and there is no guarantee Labour will make a better job of it. Lets face it, Corbyn is a Brexiteer. They wont be able to just extend Article 50 either until the next general election. The only way it can be extended is either for a second vote or an early election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 All political parties are the same, they adjust their position according to their perceptions of the electorate mood swings induced by a hysterical sensation seeking media, and according to how they think they will get more votes and thus gain or retain power. It has nothing to do with what is best for the country, it is all about self interest in the guise of party politics and what they think a gullible electorate will believe is in their own best short term interests but really is all about party and individual POWER, influence and money. Labour's view on Brexit is no different - it's just a bandwagon that if manipulated correctly might get them into power, but sadly not because they are competent but because the media portrayal of the Tories portrays them as inept without the reality of portraying Labour as even more inept. Labour has no interest in a smooth Brexit, they want chaos to ensue and the country to suffer as they see that as their best chance of gaining power so I don't ever see Labour supporting any plan of the Tories no matter what it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-11-22 12:07 PM Corbyn is a Brexiteer. So why did he vote remain (my bbc link on this page) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Tracker - 2018-11-22 12:07 PM I don't ever see Labour supporting any plan of the Tories no matter what it is Since half the Tories are Brexiteers, and half Remainers, how can they not do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Tracker - 2018-11-22 12:07 PM Labour.... want chaos to ensue and the country to suffer So why did Corbyn vote against the illegal invasion of Iraq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 John52 - 2018-11-22 12:39 PM Tracker - 2018-11-22 12:07 PM I don't ever see Labour supporting any plan of the Tories no matter what it is Since half the Tories are Brexiteers, and half Remainers, how can they not do so? I really have no idea why not - you would need to ask JC - but don't expect a straight answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 John52 - 2018-11-22 12:38 PM Barryd999 - 2018-11-22 12:07 PM Corbyn is a Brexiteer. So why did he vote remain (my bbc link on this page) Oh come on! He has been a Euro sceptic for years. If he did vote remain (if) where was he during the campaign? Where is he now? He has some good people fighting the good fight like Keir and Chuka but he should have been banging on from day one about the benefits of remaining in the EU and putting his party behind the Peoples Vote from day one. Its what the massive majority of his members want and probably the Labour electorate now. Where was he on the rally? He should be rabidly apposing Brexit and putting up some proper opposition. Its taken Keir Starmer to come up with some real opposition by tabling a movement to ensure that a "No deal" is impossible. Where was Corbyn on that? Sorry but if Labour want to attract voters that are currently out in the political wilderness like me they wont do it with him in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 John52 - 2018-11-22 12:42 PM Tracker - 2018-11-22 12:07 PM Labour.... want chaos to ensue and the country to suffer So why did Corbyn vote against the illegal invasion of Iraq? Tracker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-11-22 12:52 PM John52 - 2018-11-22 12:38 PM Barryd999 - 2018-11-22 12:07 PM Corbyn is a Brexiteer. So why did he vote remain (my bbc link on this page) Oh come on! He has been a Euro sceptic for years. If he did vote remain (if) where was he during the campaign? Where is he now? He has some good people fighting the good fight like Keir and Chuka but he should have been banging on from day one about the benefits of remaining in the EU and putting his party behind the Peoples Vote from day one. Its what the massive majority of his members want and probably the Labour electorate now. Where was he on the rally? He should be rabidly apposing Brexit and putting up some proper opposition. Its taken Keir Starmer to come up with some real opposition by tabling a movement to ensure that a "No deal" is impossible. Where was Corbyn on that? Sorry but if Labour want to attract voters that are currently out in the political wilderness like me they wont do it with him in charge. I guess he's tyhe sort of person who wants to see whats on offer before casting his vote. If we could get a good enough deal it might be worth leaving But we aren't going to get that from an extremist Government full of chancers trying to get the PMs job, most of whom have already rubbed the EU up the wrong way, and all who are under the thumb of the DUP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 John52 - 2018-11-22 12:42 PM Tracker - 2018-11-22 12:07 PM Labour.... want chaos to ensue and the country to suffer So why did Corbyn vote against the illegal invasion of Iraq? Because it wasn't Izrael *-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 John52 - 2018-11-22 12:38 PM Barryd999 - 2018-11-22 12:07 PM Corbyn is a Brexiteer. So why did he vote remain (my bbc link on this page) Did he? >:-) ........... Were you there? ;-) .......... Apparently he didn't lay any wreaths for terrorists either *-) ........ Oh........and he only drinks tea with spies (lol) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 John52 - 2018-11-22 2:05 PM John52 - 2018-11-22 12:42 PM Tracker - 2018-11-22 12:07 PM Labour.... want chaos to ensue and the country to suffer So why did Corbyn vote against the illegal invasion of Iraq? Tracker? I really have no idea why - you would need to ask JC - but don't expect a straight answer! I could hazzard a guess that he admires people like Saddam Hussein and would hate to see any of them eliminated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 John52 - 2018-11-22 2:12 PM Barryd999 - 2018-11-22 12:52 PM John52 - 2018-11-22 12:38 PM Barryd999 - 2018-11-22 12:07 PM Corbyn is a Brexiteer. So why did he vote remain (my bbc link on this page) Oh come on! He has been a Euro sceptic for years. If he did vote remain (if) where was he during the campaign? Where is he now? He has some good people fighting the good fight like Keir and Chuka but he should have been banging on from day one about the benefits of remaining in the EU and putting his party behind the Peoples Vote from day one. Its what the massive majority of his members want and probably the Labour electorate now. Where was he on the rally? He should be rabidly apposing Brexit and putting up some proper opposition. Its taken Keir Starmer to come up with some real opposition by tabling a movement to ensure that a "No deal" is impossible. Where was Corbyn on that? Sorry but if Labour want to attract voters that are currently out in the political wilderness like me they wont do it with him in charge. I guess he's tyhe sort of person who wants to see whats on offer before casting his vote. If we could get a good enough deal it might be worth leaving But we aren't going to get that from an extremist Government full of chancers trying to get the PMs job, most of whom have already rubbed the EU up the wrong way, and all who are under the thumb of the DUP. I dont buy that. If he was a true remainer and offering up proper opposition he should have continued backing remain and arguing for a peoples vote like his members want. He is just the same as the chancers. He also wants the top job. I am disappointed in JC to be honest. There is no deal we can get that justifies leaving, that much is clear and it should be clear to Jeremy Corbyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 I don’t think the Conservatives or the Labour party are serving the best interests of the electorate at the moment. I couldn’t support JC as Prime Minister because he has given no clear steer on his ideas about Brexit. I prefer a candidate who is a person of principle and someone who will stick to their guns and not wait to see how popular their views might be. What a pity it is that we the electorate are faced with the least worst option which is a Tory party that is so divided and full of self-serving narcissists and a Labour Party that is rudderless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-11-22 4:56 PM a Labour Party that is rudderless. rudderless as in ruddy useless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Tracker - 2018-11-22 4:58 PM Violet1956 - 2018-11-22 4:56 PM a Labour Party that is rudderless. rudderless as in ruddy useless? Not wholly Rich. I am a big fan of Keir Starmer, super brain and a man of principle. If he was party leader there would be some hope of a credible opposition to the shambles that is the Tory party right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Well the Tories are all hoping to get the top job by sleight of hand and treachery, and scared stiff of a general election where their fickle supporters will have Farage back as a challenger, and a Labour Party that will have a new leader, ideally one at least 20 years younger than Jeremy. I hope we can sort it all out with an election, not another referendum, the antithesis of democracy If it were not so serious it might be an exciting prospect. We’d just better make ourselves aware of the motivations of the supporters of The Free Enterprise Group, as well as The European Research Group. Not to mention Momentum! Of course, Brexit will be off the agenda by then won’t it? Snowie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-11-22 5:06 PM Tracker - 2018-11-22 4:58 PM Violet1956 - 2018-11-22 4:56 PM a Labour Party that is rudderless. rudderless as in ruddy useless? Not wholly Rich. I am a big fan of Keir Starmer, super brain and a man of principle. If he was party leader there would be some hope of a credible opposition to the shambles that is the Tory party right now. I would absolutely agree with that statement. There are a few decent statesmen (and women) left and he is one of them. There are a few Tories as well to be fair but how long they will survive life in the new ToryKipper party I dunno. Brexit is a complete unworkable pig in a poke though and they must all know that. Stand up and admit it and fight to call it off. It would be different if there was a way through it but there just isnt. The Withdrawal agreement is terrible and will be harder to get out of than Brexit itself (impossible actually) and the so called future agreement is just bits of paper with ideas on it that if they never come to fruition means we are tied into the terrible backstop forever! Parliament will ensure no deal is not an option so where do we go from there? There is nowhere to go apart from stopping Brexit one way or another. The pollys just need to man up and admit this to the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 At the last general election both Conservative and Labour stated policy was to follow Brexit, Libdem and Green was to oppose and/or second referendum, the public voted overwhelmingly Conservative and Labour, any passionate remainer should have voted Libdem or Green. I've seen Kier explain Labour's plan on Brexit, sounds very good and probably be accepted by most MP's, trouble is I think the EU would have none of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-11-22 5:06 PM Not wholly Rich. I am a big fan of Keir Starmer, super brain and a man of principle. Hmmmmm. Robert Mugabe, amongst many others, was articulate and entirely credible before he got into power! I am in no way comparing Kier Starmer with Robert Mugabe but you get the idea I hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-11-22 5:06 PM Tracker - 2018-11-22 4:58 PM Violet1956 - 2018-11-22 4:56 PM a Labour Party that is rudderless. rudderless as in ruddy useless? Not wholly Rich. I am a big fan of Keir Starmer, super brain and a man of principle. If he was party leader there would be some hope of a credible opposition to the shambles that is the Tory party right now. I presume you mean those anti democracy principles? *-) .......... As the old joke goes........ What do you call a lawyer with principles?..........Useless :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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