Luton,Leicester,Blackburn etc ...

[Birdbrain]

... Cant think why they are all China Virus hotspots ... Boss

[Barryd999]

This might explain it although I suspect it wont be the explanation you wanted.

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/vitamin-d-bame-coronavirus-study-18444139

 

Doctors, nurses, care workers etc who are black or Asian have been dying at a disproportionate rate, we know that for sure. More likely to get infected and die quite possibly due to being unable to absorb Vitamin D it seems. I presume you are suggesting its because they have not followed the guidelines properly because they are stupid or something (you will have to explain) but its clearly not as simple as that is it?

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Barryd999 - 2020-07-24 9:01 AM

 

This might explain it although I suspect it wont be the explanation you wanted.

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/vitamin-d-bame-coronavirus-study-18444139

 

Doctors, nurses, care workers etc who are black or Asian have been dying at a disproportionate rate, we know that for sure. More likely to get infected and die quite possibly due to being unable to absorb Vitamin D it seems. I presume you are suggesting its because they have not followed the guidelines properly because they are stupid or something (you will have to explain) but its clearly not as simple as that is it?

 

 

So nothing to do with them ignoring social distancing rules or their preference of living several generations in one house? :-| ............

 

Have you worked out how to blame Boris yet? ;-) ...........

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

pelmetman - 2020-07-24 9:04 AM...…………………...

1 So nothing to do with them ignoring social distancing rules or their preference of living several generations in one house? :-| .......................

Yes, undoubtedly! It is well known that BAME doctors both ignore social distancing guidance and live in poorer areas of towns and cities in crowded households! Alternatively, just blame them for being of BAME ethnicity. Ideally, blame them for both! Why not! After all, they're dead now, so what can they say? Was that the right answer? :-D

[StuartO]

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-24 12:17 PM

 

pelmetman - 2020-07-24 9:04 AM...…………………...

1 So nothing to do with them ignoring social distancing rules or their preference of living several generations in one house? :-| .......................

Yes, undoubtedly! It is well known that BAME doctors both ignore social distancing guidance and live in poorer areas of towns and cities in crowded households! Alternatively, just blame them for being of BAME ethnicity. Ideally, blame them for both! Why not! After all, they're dead now, so what can they say? Was that the right answer? :-D

 

An unworthy reponse Brian, sarcasm adds nothing useful to a very touchy topic.

 

I was born and brought up in Blackburn and have family still living there. There is now a high proportion of BAME residents and since Leicester and Luton are also BAME hotspots it will be silly to ignore this as a factor worthy of investigation.

[Barryd999]

StuartO - 2020-07-24 1:48 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-24 12:17 PM

 

pelmetman - 2020-07-24 9:04 AM...…………………...

1 So nothing to do with them ignoring social distancing rules or their preference of living several generations in one house? :-| .......................

Yes, undoubtedly! It is well known that BAME doctors both ignore social distancing guidance and live in poorer areas of towns and cities in crowded households! Alternatively, just blame them for being of BAME ethnicity. Ideally, blame them for both! Why not! After all, they're dead now, so what can they say? Was that the right answer? :-D

 

An unworthy reponse Brian, sarcasm adds nothing useful to a very touchy topic.

 

I was born and brought up in Blackburn and have family still living there. There is now a high proportion of BAME residents and since Leicester and Luton are also BAME hotspots it will be silly to ignore this as a factor worthy of investigation.

 

I think its a very good response. Its just another racist finger pointing post. Look at the stupid Asians getting coronavirus. No mention of the thousands of white bell ends from towns all over the country that dont have a high Asian population spreading the virus and not respecting social distancing simply because they are morons. The fact that a lot of Asians do live in large families could of course be a risk but thats not what this thread is about is it sadly?

[Brian Kirby]

StuartO - 2020-07-24 1:48 PM

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-24 12:17 PM

pelmetman - 2020-07-24 9:04 AM...…………………...

1 So nothing to do with them ignoring social distancing rules or their preference of living several generations in one house? :-| .......................

Yes, undoubtedly! It is well known that BAME doctors both ignore social distancing guidance and live in poorer areas of towns and cities in crowded households! Alternatively, just blame them for being of BAME ethnicity. Ideally, blame them for both! Why not! After all, they're dead now, so what can they say? Was that the right answer? :-D

An unworthy reponse Brian, sarcasm adds nothing useful to a very touchy topic.

I was born and brought up in Blackburn and have family still living there. There is now a high proportion of BAME residents and since Leicester and Luton are also BAME hotspots it will be silly to ignore this as a factor worthy of investigation.

It was indeed an unworthy response, Stuart, and intentionally so - to a wholly unworthy question, in an unworthy string - intended to draw attention to the unworthy dog-whistle bias implicit in it.

 

Of course the fact that a higher proportion of BAME ethnics has died from Covid raises serious questions as to the reason - that was the point I was trying - via dark irony - to make.

 

Antony's OP was a typically clear fishing trip for bigotry. Barry replied 24 hours later with thoughtful consideration, predictably followed in three minutes by Dave with his reprehensible dog-whistle post. So, I replied in like manner. I'm sorry my intention was not clearer. I'd hoped it would be. But at least it got you going, so I'll stand by it. :-)

 

As can be seen from their posting records, neither Antony nor Dave has expressed the slightest empathy for BAMEs being so vulnerable to Covid - choosing instead to use that tragic fact in furtherance of their general vendetta against them.

 

However, as a person who is medically qualified, and so with greater insight into the possible reasons for this heightened incidence of BAME deaths than the rest of us, perhaps you could enlarge a little on your above observations to re-direct the string in a more constructive direction?

[StuartO]

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-24 3:13 PM

StuartO - 2020-07-24 1:48 PM An unworthy reponse Brian, sarcasm adds nothing useful to a very touchy topic.....

It was indeed an unworthy response, Stuart, and intentionally so....

Joining in with Partisan Ping Pong in the way you did does you no credit; far better to be analytical and constructive, whatever others might be saying.

 

I don't know what the underlying cause or causes is/are, but clearly there is substantial vulnerability and/or failure to take avoiding action to preven virus spread among some, perhaps most strongly BAME communities and it requires investigation and remedy. Currently we're not achieving much more than guessing about the underlying causes, albeit perhaps sometimes educated guessing. There is said to be no evidence (so far) of any genetic vulnerability so we will need to look at other factors, essentially behavioural and contextual (environmental, cultural, lifestyle) factors. This presents challenges because political correctness has placed substantial obstacles in the way of objective investigation of such potential factors among BAME people, lest they appear to be criticism of the culture, lifestyles etc when those could be the important, potentially lifesaving considerations.

 

Anecdotally I'm hearing stories about widespread non-compliance with COVID-19 security requirements among people of asian ethnicity in Blackburn and that chimes with the way a lot of asians in these BAME-majority towns are seen by non-BAMEs in those towns anyway. So any suggestion that in the context of COVID-19 the possibility of asian bad behaviour needs investigating will provoke accusations of profiling or stereotyping which could rule out progress altogether.

 

Fortunately for me I'm well out of it, ten years retired, and I was not an epidemiologist anyway. But it is obvious to me that there is definitely a big problem of BAME vulnerability and that it's going to need a miracle of open-mindedness in our society for any progress to be made investigating and solving it.

[Brian Kirby]

StuartO - 2020-07-24 4:49 PM.............................

1 There is said to be no evidence (so far) of any genetic vulnerability so we will need to look at other factors, essentially behavioural and contextual (environmental, cultural, lifestyle) factors. This presents challenges because political correctness has placed substantial obstacles in the way of objective investigation of such potential factors among BAME people, lest they appear to be criticism of the culture, lifestyles etc when those could be the important, potentially lifesaving considerations.

 

2 Anecdotally I'm hearing stories about widespread non-compliance with COVID-19 security requirements among people of asian ethnicity in Blackburn and that chimes with the way a lot of asians in these BAME-majority towns are seen by non-BAMEs in those towns anyway. So any suggestion that in the context of COVID-19 the possibility of asian bad behaviour needs investigating will provoke accusations of profiling or stereotyping which could rule out progress altogether.

 

3 Fortunately for me I'm well out of it, ten years retired, and I was not an epidemiologist anyway. But it is obvious to me that there is definitely a big problem of BAME vulnerability and that it's going to need a miracle of open-mindedness in our society for any progress to be made investigating and solving it.

1 One might hope that the subject group will be well aware of their vulnerabilities by now, and more than a little anxious, so would be open to diplomatically conducted investigations as in their overall interests, and less inclined to allege bias in the investigations. Even were aspects of the culture or lifestyles to be identified as potential causes, provided these were appropriately explained, and the communities encouraged to join in suggesting potential remedies, they would surely act in their own interests? After all, it is not as though they, and they alone, are the ones impacted, so just in the interests of wider social harmony one might think they would see advantage.

 

2 Yes, even from down here! Some of that seems to be relatively poor language skills, seemingly more especially among the women, that should have been remedied years back. Against that, there are some highly qualified Asian medical practitioners in whom there might be greater trust. So, possibly horses for courses in selection the leads?

 

3 True, but the wider BAME group includes quite a wide range of ethnicities, a lot of whom share the same vulnerability, so it is not as though apparent finger pointing should be an insurmountable issue. Having said that, it will have to be approached with great delicacy and diplomacy to avert the possibility. But then, if the issue is not investigated there seems an equal risk that instead of alleged profiling, the charge could be that they are being left to die. Damned if we do, and damned if we don't, so tread soft? Handled well, it just might turn out to benefit integration and reduce inter cultural friction, which would surely be an across the board good?

[Birdbrain]

What a surprise ... Seems The Squad dont want to condemn those that put others including NHS staff at risk ... Cant think why

[Birdbrain]

Und we wonder why the Americans are having it tough ...

[Birdbrain]

Awkward ... https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-luton-councillors-break-lockdown-rules-at-party-as-town-placed-on-watchlist-12035790 ... If Lutons Mayor can ignore the advice and his lieutenants then its little surprise Lutons in a mess

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-24 3:13 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-07-24 1:48 PM

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-24 12:17 PM

pelmetman - 2020-07-24 9:04 AM...…………………...

1 So nothing to do with them ignoring social distancing rules or their preference of living several generations in one house? :-| .......................

Yes, undoubtedly! It is well known that BAME doctors both ignore social distancing guidance and live in poorer areas of towns and cities in crowded households! Alternatively, just blame them for being of BAME ethnicity. Ideally, blame them for both! Why not! After all, they're dead now, so what can they say? Was that the right answer? :-D

An unworthy reponse Brian, sarcasm adds nothing useful to a very touchy topic.

I was born and brought up in Blackburn and have family still living there. There is now a high proportion of BAME residents and since Leicester and Luton are also BAME hotspots it will be silly to ignore this as a factor worthy of investigation.

It was indeed an unworthy response, Stuart, and intentionally so - to a wholly unworthy question, in an unworthy string - intended to draw attention to the unworthy dog-whistle bias implicit in it.

 

Of course the fact that a higher proportion of BAME ethnics has died from Covid raises serious questions as to the reason - that was the point I was trying - via dark irony - to make.

 

Antony's OP was a typically clear fishing trip for bigotry. Barry replied 24 hours later with thoughtful consideration, predictably followed in three minutes by Dave with his reprehensible dog-whistle post. So, I replied in like manner. I'm sorry my intention was not clearer. I'd hoped it would be. But at least it got you going, so I'll stand by it. :-)

 

As can be seen from their posting records, neither Antony nor Dave has expressed the slightest empathy for BAMEs being so vulnerable to Covid - choosing instead to use that tragic fact in furtherance of their general vendetta against them.

 

However, as a person who is medically qualified, and so with greater insight into the possible reasons for this heightened incidence of BAME deaths than the rest of us, perhaps you could enlarge a little on your above observations to re-direct the string in a more constructive direction?

 

It's because people like you call those who dared to speak out "dog whistlers" *-) ..........

 

That BAME folk were able to get away with raping 1000's of British children >:-( .........

 

Perhaps its time to take your holier than thou self rightous fingers out of your ears? >:-) .........

 

 

[StuartO]

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-24 6:54 PM ....but the wider BAME group includes quite a wide range of ethnicities, a lot of whom share the same vulnerability, so it is not as though apparent finger pointing should be an insurmountable issue. Having said that, it will have to be approached with great delicacy and diplomacy to avert the possibility. But then, if the issue is not investigated there seems an equal risk that instead of alleged profiling, the charge could be that they are being left to die. Damned if we do, and damned if we don't, so tread soft? Handled well, it just might turn out to benefit integration and reduce inter cultural friction, which would surely be an across the board good?

 

It's simply a wild assumption of yours that different ethnicities within the BAME group share the same vulnerabilities and your prescription for an approach with "great delicacy" because of ethnic sensitivities is precisely what I see as a dangerous obstacle - so that BAME people will ontinue to die in large numbers in UK whilst the investigation dawdles along or fails to make progress because people like you will still want it to be done without treading on any ethnic sensitivities. If for example it turns out that behavioural factors are involved at some point the affected ethnic groups will have to be told that their own behaviour is the problem and people like you will still call that a racist step.

[Brian Kirby]

pelmetman - 2020-07-25 8:41 AM

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-24 3:13 PM..................…..............

Antony's OP was a typically clear fishing trip for bigotry. Barry replied 24 hours later with thoughtful consideration, predictably followed in three minutes by Dave with his reprehensible dog-whistle post. .............................

As can be seen from their posting records, neither Antony nor Dave has expressed the slightest empathy for BAMEs being so vulnerable to Covid - choosing instead to use that tragic fact in furtherance of their general vendetta against them...……………...

1 It's because people like you call those who dared to speak out "dog whistlers" *-) ..........

2 That BAME folk were able to get away with raping 1000's of British children >:-( .........

3 Perhaps its time to take your holier than thou self rightous fingers out of your ears? >:-) .........

1 No it isn't. Its because when "people like you" "speak out" you use dog-whistle tactics.

 

2 A classic example! The subject is why BAME folk are more likely than others to die of Covid. But because a statistically small group of south Asian (so BAME) men abused children in northern Britain, you assign responsibility to all BAME (of whatever ethnicity) people. Logic: they've earned their Covid fates. Here Fido, come to Dave! :-D

 

For example, in 2018 there were over 2,000 ex armed services personnel in UK prisons. You're ex services, so likely to have been in prison, so I wouldn't trust you. Is that reasonable? It's the same chop-logic reasoning.

 

3 Or perhaps it's time you learned to control your indiscriminate assumptions, and sort the sheep from the goats. Here you go, try some facts for a change: https://tinyurl.com/y5ehj39m Its a real rogues gallery, all BAME/south Asian, of course!

[Brian Kirby]

StuartO - 2020-07-25 9:23 AM

 

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-24 6:54 PM ....but the wider BAME group includes quite a wide range of ethnicities, a lot of whom share the same vulnerability, so it is not as though apparent finger pointing should be an insurmountable issue. Having said that, it will have to be approached with great delicacy and diplomacy to avert the possibility. But then, if the issue is not investigated there seems an equal risk that instead of alleged profiling, the charge could be that they are being left to die. Damned if we do, and damned if we don't, so tread soft? Handled well, it just might turn out to benefit integration and reduce inter cultural friction, which would surely be an across the board good?

 

1 It's simply a wild assumption of yours that different ethnicities within the BAME group share the same vulnerabilities

2 and your prescription for an approach with "great delicacy" because of ethnic sensitivities is precisely what I see as a dangerous obstacle - so that BAME people will ontinue to die in large numbers in UK whilst the investigation dawdles along or fails to make progress because people like you will still want it to be done without treading on any ethnic sensitivities.

3 If for example it turns out that behavioural factors are involved at some point the affected ethnic groups will have to be told that their own behaviour is the problem and people like you will still call that a racist step.

1 But that's not really what I said in bold above, is it? The information I have seen doesn't seem to imply differences in death rates between the various ethnicities, just that (for presently unidentified reasons), the death rate in the group as a whole is higher than for the rest of us.

2 I don't see why that should necessarily yield the delays you fear. It merely requires a sensitive approach, which is surely better than wading in with "size nines" and creating suspicion? My assumption is that any such investigation would be undertaken by suitable, reasonable, intelligent, people.

3 (In italics) What a preposterous presumption! On what basis do you reach that conclusion?

[Birdbrain]

Behaviour is key with these people ... They have ignored and continue to ignore Government advice ... Those who live miles away from them will of course preach different because they know best

[Brian Kirby]

Birdbrain - 2020-07-25 5:18 PM

Behaviour is key with these people ... They have ignored and continue to ignore Government advice ... Those who live miles away from them will of course preach different because they know best

Who, exactly, are "these people"? Who are "they"? Where is the "preaching" from "those who live miles away"? Pillar boxes are red. So are all red objects pillar boxes? You just can't help yourself, can you?

[Birdbrain]

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-25 5:29 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-07-25 5:18 PM

Behaviour is key with these people ... They have ignored and continue to ignore Government advice ... Those who live miles away from them will of course preach different because they know best

Who, exactly, are "these people"? Who are "they"? Where is the "preaching" from "those who live miles away"? Pillar boxes are red. So are all red objects pillar boxes? You just can't help yourself, can you?

 

"You just cant help yourself, can you?" ... Help myself with what exactly Brian???

[StuartO]

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-25 5:29 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-07-25 5:18 PM

Behaviour is key with these people ... They have ignored and continue to ignore Government advice ... Those who live miles away from them will of course preach different because they know best

Who, exactly, are "these people"? Who are "they"? Where is the "preaching" from "those who live miles away"? Pillar boxes are red. So are all red objects pillar boxes? You just can't help yourself, can you?

 

If you genuinely want to know, go and live in Blackburn for a couple of years.

[Birdbrain]

StuartO - 2020-07-25 5:44 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-25 5:29 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-07-25 5:18 PM

Behaviour is key with these people ... They have ignored and continue to ignore Government advice ... Those who live miles away from them will of course preach different because they know best

Who, exactly, are "these people"? Who are "they"? Where is the "preaching" from "those who live miles away"? Pillar boxes are red. So are all red objects pillar boxes? You just can't help yourself, can you?

 

If you genuinely want to know, go and live in Blackburn for a couple of years.

 

No, c'mon give Brian a break he did once buy The Guardian in an Asian owned newspaper shop once in that London

[Bulletguy]

StuartO - 2020-07-25 5:44 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-25 5:29 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-07-25 5:18 PM

Behaviour is key with these people ... They have ignored and continue to ignore Government advice ... Those who live miles away from them will of course preach different because they know best

Who, exactly, are "these people"? Who are "they"? Where is the "preaching" from "those who live miles away"? Pillar boxes are red. So are all red objects pillar boxes? You just can't help yourself, can you?

 

If you genuinely want to know, go and live in Blackburn for a couple of years.

Which is predominantly white according to it's demographics, so is that who "these people" are?

[Birdbrain]

Bulletguy - 2020-07-25 6:08 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-07-25 5:44 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-25 5:29 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-07-25 5:18 PM

Behaviour is key with these people ... They have ignored and continue to ignore Government advice ... Those who live miles away from them will of course preach different because they know best

Who, exactly, are "these people"? Who are "they"? Where is the "preaching" from "those who live miles away"? Pillar boxes are red. So are all red objects pillar boxes? You just can't help yourself, can you?

 

If you genuinely want to know, go and live in Blackburn for a couple of years.

Which is predominantly white according to it's demographics, so is that who "these people" are?

 

Just shows how much the minority naff it up for the majority then ... Thankyou for proving Stuarts point

[Bulletguy]

Birdbrain - 2020-07-25 6:14 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-07-25 6:08 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-07-25 5:44 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-25 5:29 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-07-25 5:18 PM

Behaviour is key with these people ... They have ignored and continue to ignore Government advice ... Those who live miles away from them will of course preach different because they know best

Who, exactly, are "these people"? Who are "they"? Where is the "preaching" from "those who live miles away"? Pillar boxes are red. So are all red objects pillar boxes? You just can't help yourself, can you?

 

If you genuinely want to know, go and live in Blackburn for a couple of years.

Which is predominantly white according to it's demographics, so is that who "these people" are?

 

Just shows how much the minority naff it up for the majority then ... Thankyou for proving Stuarts point

That's an opinion, not a fact.

[Brian Kirby]

StuartO - 2020-07-25 5:44 PM

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-25 5:29 PM

Birdbrain - 2020-07-25 5:18 PM

Behaviour is key with these people ... They have ignored and continue to ignore Government advice ... Those who live miles away from them will of course preach different because they know best

Who, exactly, are "these people"? Who are "they"? Where is the "preaching" from "those who live miles away"? Pillar boxes are red. So are all red objects pillar boxes? You just can't help yourself, can you?

If you genuinely want to know, go and live in Blackburn for a couple of years.

But I thought this discussion was supposed to be about the BAME group as a whole, and their increased susceptibility to die of Covid, and was not restricted to the south Asian population of Blackburn (even if Luton and Leicester were included)?

 

At about 2 million the Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis together are the largest sub-group, but from census data there's another 5 million or so BAME residents in UK in addition to those from the Indian sub-continent, so it is unreasonable to imply they all behave in the same way. This is now drifting into indiscriminate racial stereotyping, IMO.