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May elections?..........
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userpelmetman
Posted: 9 January 2019 11:07 AM
Subject: May elections?..........
 


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Assuming Remoaners get their wish and article 50 is delayed ...........

I presume we will get to vote for our MEP's? ........

That should be fun .........

"Our calculations, based on current national polls, suggest a loss of EP seats for
most centrist pro-European groups and a visible gain for anti-EU and
EU(ro)sceptic alliances. Polls suggest that the Christian Democrats (EPP) would
remain the largest group in the EP with 25.2% (-3.9 pp). Socialists and
Democrats (S&D) would bear the heaviest losses (-5.9 pp) and only reach
19.1% of seats. According to our poll-based calculations, the liberal ALDE could
potentially gain 10.5% to 13.5%, depending on whether French President
Macron's En Marche will join the alliance. The far-right ENF could gain the most
(+3.4 pp) and increase its share of seats to 8.1%. Together with the EU-sceptic
EFDD (6.5%), ECR (7.1%) and other anti-EU parties, they could reach more
than ¼ of seats in the next EP."

https://www.dbresearch.com/PROD/RPS_EN-PROD/PROD0000000000480268/European_Parliament_elections_2019%3A_The_next_%E2%80%9Cbatt.pdf

Of course those calculations were based on Pre Macron woes, and assuming they'd be no Ukippers in the EP .........

As the saying goes......."Be careful what EU wish for" ...........



Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-09 11:11 AM
userpelmetman
Posted: 9 January 2019 2:22 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Curiously the more I think about it ...........The more I'm thinking I wouldn't mind a delay until June ...........



Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-09 2:23 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 9 January 2019 3:55 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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I doubt our resident Europhiles considered the effect delaying Brexit could have in their wonderful European Parliament ..........

"Europe Elects predicts another tie at 50 representatives in the European Parliament between the national conservative group ECR and EFDD. Whereas the loss of 23 seats by the former can be attributed to the exit of British Conservatives after Brexit, the EFDD group seems to compensate its reliance on UKIP MEPs with the German AfD and Italian M5S’ success."

https://www.thenewfederalist.eu/projection-for-2019-european-elections-projection

userpelmetman
Posted: 9 January 2019 7:03 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Walks with the gods

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Talking of May elections...........Just seen a party political broadcast by the Tories ............

Is Mrs May going to use the nuclear option? ...........



Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-09 7:04 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 10 January 2019 9:55 AM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Oh dear......Looks like some of our EU buddies don't want us to delay Brexit ..........

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1062838/European-Union-elections-Article-50-second-referendum

Cant think why? .........

It's also curious why our resident Remoaners have nothing to say about the possibility of us taking part in the EU elections? ........

Could the penny be dropping?........that extending article 50 will in effectively mean they're bolting the BREXIT Trojan horse in the EU stable .......



Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-10 10:07 AM
userpelmetman
Posted: 10 January 2019 10:15 AM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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https://openreason.uk/delaying-brexit-what-does-it-mean-for-the-european-parliament-elections/

Some commentators have suggested that the EU-27 would be unwilling to agree to an extension. From our discussions, however, the real risk is not an absence of the political will to help the UK to navigate such a scenario, but rather a technical objection to the possibility that the UK would have to stand MEPs in the elections in late May 2019, only to leave the EU at an unspecified time shortly afterwards.

That problem is a legal one: if Article 50 is extended beyond the date of the European Elections in May 2019, the UK will be under a treaty obligation to hold elections to the European Parliament whilst it is a Member of the EU.

As a responsible British citizen I will do my civic duty and vote ...........

The opportunity to give the EU one last kicking would be worth the delay ........

userpelmetman
Posted: 12 January 2019 12:45 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Aaaaaw ...........

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1071076/Brexit-News-Brussels-Remainers-EU-leaders-second-referendum

It doesn't look like Brussels want us to take part in their elections ..........

Cant think why ...........

userBarryd999
Posted: 12 January 2019 3:20 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-12 12:45 PM

Aaaaaw ...........

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1071076/Brexit-News-Brussels-Remainers-EU-leaders-second-referendum

It doesn't look like Brussels want us to take part in their elections ..........

Cant think why ...........



Just one blokes views who says "It would not be satisfactory for people to vote in an organisation that you are going to be leaving." However if we were extending article 50 for another referendum we might not be leaving so they would have to treat us exactly as we are now as EU Members. Until we actually leave we have the same rights as any other country in Europe.

Its neither here nor there now anyway as if the EU get arsey about it we can just revoke Article 50 on our own and hold a further referendum when ever we like.
userpelmetman
Posted: 13 January 2019 9:18 AM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-12 3:20 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-12 12:45 PM

Aaaaaw ...........

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1071076/Brexit-News-Brussels-Remainers-EU-leaders-second-referendum

It doesn't look like Brussels want us to take part in their elections ..........

Cant think why ...........



Just one blokes views who says "It would not be satisfactory for people to vote in an organisation that you are going to be leaving." However if we were extending article 50 for another referendum we might not be leaving so they would have to treat us exactly as we are now as EU Members. Until we actually leave we have the same rights as any other country in Europe.

Its neither here nor there now anyway as if the EU get arsey about it we can just revoke Article 50 on our own and hold a further referendum when ever we like.


Just one blokes view which is echoed by many in Brussels ..........Can you imagine Drunker & Co looking forward to the prospect of a shed load of UK anti EU MEP's arriving in the EP? ........

I'm even thinking of starting my own party for the election......."Stop the undemocratic f*cking federalist EU"........aka ......STUFF EU .......

userpelmetman
Posted: 14 January 2019 10:01 AM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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“If the extension includes the beginning of the next legislature, we might end up having British MEPs voting for the next president of the European Commission and leaving some weeks later.

"That would certainly complicate things.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1071762/Brexit-latest-news-eu-uk-theresa-may-brexit-vote-meaningful-vote

I'd call it pay back ...........

userBarryd999
Posted: 14 January 2019 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Hmm. Well it looks like the EU is preparing to extend article 50 until "at least" July.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/13/eu-preparing-to-delay-brexit-until-at-least-july

What are you going to do about your countdown thread?

I actually hope they stick to their guns and only extend it for either a GE or a second ref as giving May an extension just to revise her current deal or dress it up better for Parliament will just see us kicking the can down the road where we will be at impasse once again in July.

Meanwhile a group of cross party MPs including the very clever Dominic Grieve have drafted proposed legislation for a second referendum.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/14/second-brexit-referendum-looking-likely-remainer-mps-join-forces-may-defeat-8342440/

It recommends that the proposed question is should the UK remain in the Eu or accept the Prime Minister deal.

This was what the Peoples vote was all about really. Ratifying whatever deal was eventually worked out and if its not what you wanted having the option to remain.

If we remember just about every politician stated in the past that "nobody voted for no deal" etc. No deal should really not be an option now as its totally avoidable now that we know we can revoke article 50 on our own. If this government allow the UK to crash out knowing how damaging that will be then its for purely selfish reasons as there is no mandate for it. Surely what is being proposed above is the only way out now.

Of course if they are the only two options I suspect remain will walk it if the opinion polls are even remotely half accurate.




Edited by Barryd999 2019-01-14 11:41 AM
userpelmetman
Posted: 14 January 2019 11:52 AM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-14 11:41 AM

Hmm. Well it looks like the EU is preparing to extend article 50 until "at least" July.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/13/eu-preparing-to-delay-brexit-until-at-least-july

What are you going to do about your countdown thread?

I actually hope they stick to their guns and only extend it for either a GE or a second ref as giving May an extension just to revise her current deal or dress it up better for Parliament will just see us kicking the can down the road where we will be at impasse once again in July.

Meanwhile a group of cross party MPs including the very clever Dominic Grieve have drafted proposed legislation for a second referendum.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/14/second-brexit-referendum-looking-likely-remainer-mps-join-forces-may-defeat-8342440/

It recommends that the proposed question is should the UK remain in the Eu or accept the Prime Minister deal.

This was what the Peoples vote was all about really. Ratifying whatever deal was eventually worked out and if its not what you wanted having the option to remain.

If we remember just about every politician stated in the past that "nobody voted for no deal" etc. No deal should really not be an option now as its totally avoidable now that we know we can revoke article 50 on our own. If this government allow the UK to crash out knowing how damaging that will be then its for purely selfish reasons as there is no mandate for it. Surely what is being proposed above is the only way out now.

Of course if they are the only two options I suspect remain will walk it if the opinion polls are even remotely half accurate.




If there is another vote then there should be 2 questions .........

1.........Accept Mays deal....

2.........Leave with No Deal......

We've already voted on whether we want to leave the EU ..........

usermalc d
Posted: 14 January 2019 12:37 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 
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pelmetman - 2019-01-14 11:52 AM

If there is another vote then there should be 2 questions .........

1.........Accept Mays deal....

2.........Leave with No Deal......





If there is another vote it might be best to only have ONE question with two options.

If they take up your idea of two questions people might say YES or NO to both ( just to screw things up )


userBarryd999
Posted: 14 January 2019 1:35 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-14 11:52 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-14 11:41 AM

Hmm. Well it looks like the EU is preparing to extend article 50 until "at least" July.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/13/eu-preparing-to-delay-brexit-until-at-least-july

What are you going to do about your countdown thread?

I actually hope they stick to their guns and only extend it for either a GE or a second ref as giving May an extension just to revise her current deal or dress it up better for Parliament will just see us kicking the can down the road where we will be at impasse once again in July.

Meanwhile a group of cross party MPs including the very clever Dominic Grieve have drafted proposed legislation for a second referendum.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/14/second-brexit-referendum-looking-likely-remainer-mps-join-forces-may-defeat-8342440/

It recommends that the proposed question is should the UK remain in the Eu or accept the Prime Minister deal.

This was what the Peoples vote was all about really. Ratifying whatever deal was eventually worked out and if its not what you wanted having the option to remain.

If we remember just about every politician stated in the past that "nobody voted for no deal" etc. No deal should really not be an option now as its totally avoidable now that we know we can revoke article 50 on our own. If this government allow the UK to crash out knowing how damaging that will be then its for purely selfish reasons as there is no mandate for it. Surely what is being proposed above is the only way out now.

Of course if they are the only two options I suspect remain will walk it if the opinion polls are even remotely half accurate.




If there is another vote then there should be 2 questions .........

1.........Accept Mays deal....

2.........Leave with No Deal......

We've already voted on whether we want to leave the EU ..........



I cant see how no deal can be an option seeing as its what nobody wants apparently or at least thats what they said in 2016 and you cant just have one question "do you accept mays deal" can you?

To be honest, Mays deal is so crap I would be prepared to accept a vote of Remain or leave with no deal. Both are true binary choices and leaving with no deal is the only real true form of Brexit.

userBulletguy
Posted: 14 January 2019 5:02 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-14 11:52 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-14 11:41 AM

Hmm. Well it looks like the EU is preparing to extend article 50 until "at least" July.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/13/eu-preparing-to-delay-brexit-until-at-least-july

What are you going to do about your countdown thread?

I actually hope they stick to their guns and only extend it for either a GE or a second ref as giving May an extension just to revise her current deal or dress it up better for Parliament will just see us kicking the can down the road where we will be at impasse once again in July.

Meanwhile a group of cross party MPs including the very clever Dominic Grieve have drafted proposed legislation for a second referendum.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/14/second-brexit-referendum-looking-likely-remainer-mps-join-forces-may-defeat-8342440/

It recommends that the proposed question is should the UK remain in the Eu or accept the Prime Minister deal.

This was what the Peoples vote was all about really. Ratifying whatever deal was eventually worked out and if its not what you wanted having the option to remain.

If we remember just about every politician stated in the past that "nobody voted for no deal" etc. No deal should really not be an option now as its totally avoidable now that we know we can revoke article 50 on our own. If this government allow the UK to crash out knowing how damaging that will be then its for purely selfish reasons as there is no mandate for it. Surely what is being proposed above is the only way out now.

Of course if they are the only two options I suspect remain will walk it if the opinion polls are even remotely half accurate.




If there is another vote then there should be 2 questions .........

1.........Accept Mays deal....

2.........Leave with No Deal......

We've already voted on whether we want to leave the EU ..........

You took part in a non-binding advisory referendum on the latter which you seem to think is cast in stone. It's not and never was. Even triggering article 50 did not mean we were obliged by law to leave within two years (which you still think it does), as the electorate were told by the man who drew up the legislation, not only could it be reversed, it could be withdrawn. The referendum also only asked a question....it didn't state what the outcome would be of leaving. Now people have seen what they face.

There's also the small matter of parliamentary sovereignty you lot trumpeted about wanting it protected......yet now want to trample all over it, yet again, to get your Brexit at any cost.
userpelmetman
Posted: 14 January 2019 10:50 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Walks with the gods

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Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 5:02 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 11:52 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-14 11:41 AM

Hmm. Well it looks like the EU is preparing to extend article 50 until "at least" July.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/13/eu-preparing-to-delay-brexit-until-at-least-july

What are you going to do about your countdown thread?

I actually hope they stick to their guns and only extend it for either a GE or a second ref as giving May an extension just to revise her current deal or dress it up better for Parliament will just see us kicking the can down the road where we will be at impasse once again in July.

Meanwhile a group of cross party MPs including the very clever Dominic Grieve have drafted proposed legislation for a second referendum.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/14/second-brexit-referendum-looking-likely-remainer-mps-join-forces-may-defeat-8342440/

It recommends that the proposed question is should the UK remain in the Eu or accept the Prime Minister deal.

This was what the Peoples vote was all about really. Ratifying whatever deal was eventually worked out and if its not what you wanted having the option to remain.

If we remember just about every politician stated in the past that "nobody voted for no deal" etc. No deal should really not be an option now as its totally avoidable now that we know we can revoke article 50 on our own. If this government allow the UK to crash out knowing how damaging that will be then its for purely selfish reasons as there is no mandate for it. Surely what is being proposed above is the only way out now.

Of course if they are the only two options I suspect remain will walk it if the opinion polls are even remotely half accurate.




If there is another vote then there should be 2 questions .........

1.........Accept Mays deal....

2.........Leave with No Deal......

We've already voted on whether we want to leave the EU ..........

You took part in a non-binding advisory referendum on the latter which you seem to think is cast in stone. It's not and never was. Even triggering article 50 did not mean we were obliged by law to leave within two years (which you still think it does), as the electorate were told by the man who drew up the legislation, not only could it be reversed, it could be withdrawn. The referendum also only asked a question....it didn't state what the outcome would be of leaving. Now people have seen what they face.

There's also the small matter of parliamentary sovereignty you lot trumpeted about wanting it protected......yet now want to trample all over it, yet again, to get your Brexit at any cost.


"On Thursday, 23rd June there will be a referendum. It’s your
opportunity to decide if the UK remains in the European Union (EU).
It’s a big decision. One that will affect you, your family and your
children for decades to come. "

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/517014/EU_referendum_leaflet_large_print.pdf

No mention of it being advisory? ...........

userBulletguy
Posted: 14 January 2019 11:56 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-14 10:50 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 5:02 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 11:52 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-14 11:41 AM

Hmm. Well it looks like the EU is preparing to extend article 50 until "at least" July.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/13/eu-preparing-to-delay-brexit-until-at-least-july

What are you going to do about your countdown thread?

I actually hope they stick to their guns and only extend it for either a GE or a second ref as giving May an extension just to revise her current deal or dress it up better for Parliament will just see us kicking the can down the road where we will be at impasse once again in July.

Meanwhile a group of cross party MPs including the very clever Dominic Grieve have drafted proposed legislation for a second referendum.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/14/second-brexit-referendum-looking-likely-remainer-mps-join-forces-may-defeat-8342440/

It recommends that the proposed question is should the UK remain in the Eu or accept the Prime Minister deal.

This was what the Peoples vote was all about really. Ratifying whatever deal was eventually worked out and if its not what you wanted having the option to remain.

If we remember just about every politician stated in the past that "nobody voted for no deal" etc. No deal should really not be an option now as its totally avoidable now that we know we can revoke article 50 on our own. If this government allow the UK to crash out knowing how damaging that will be then its for purely selfish reasons as there is no mandate for it. Surely what is being proposed above is the only way out now.

Of course if they are the only two options I suspect remain will walk it if the opinion polls are even remotely half accurate.




If there is another vote then there should be 2 questions .........

1.........Accept Mays deal....

2.........Leave with No Deal......

We've already voted on whether we want to leave the EU ..........

You took part in a non-binding advisory referendum on the latter which you seem to think is cast in stone. It's not and never was. Even triggering article 50 did not mean we were obliged by law to leave within two years (which you still think it does), as the electorate were told by the man who drew up the legislation, not only could it be reversed, it could be withdrawn. The referendum also only asked a question....it didn't state what the outcome would be of leaving. Now people have seen what they face.

There's also the small matter of parliamentary sovereignty you lot trumpeted about wanting it protected......yet now want to trample all over it, yet again, to get your Brexit at any cost.


"On Thursday, 23rd June there will be a referendum......"

No mention of it being advisory? ...........

Neither was there any mention of it being legally binding as it wasn't, hence the term 'advisory'. All referendums in UK are 'advisory'. Neither did it state what the outcome of leaving would entail......many have since found far more out on that much to their horror. Neither was there mention of the facts stated in my previous post about article 50. You've ignored inconvenient truths all along throughout the past two and half years and continue to do so even when it's staring you in the face.
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 January 2019 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 25909
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Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 11:56 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 10:50 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 5:02 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 11:52 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-14 11:41 AM

Hmm. Well it looks like the EU is preparing to extend article 50 until "at least" July.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/13/eu-preparing-to-delay-brexit-until-at-least-july

What are you going to do about your countdown thread?

I actually hope they stick to their guns and only extend it for either a GE or a second ref as giving May an extension just to revise her current deal or dress it up better for Parliament will just see us kicking the can down the road where we will be at impasse once again in July.

Meanwhile a group of cross party MPs including the very clever Dominic Grieve have drafted proposed legislation for a second referendum.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/14/second-brexit-referendum-looking-likely-remainer-mps-join-forces-may-defeat-8342440/

It recommends that the proposed question is should the UK remain in the Eu or accept the Prime Minister deal.

This was what the Peoples vote was all about really. Ratifying whatever deal was eventually worked out and if its not what you wanted having the option to remain.

If we remember just about every politician stated in the past that "nobody voted for no deal" etc. No deal should really not be an option now as its totally avoidable now that we know we can revoke article 50 on our own. If this government allow the UK to crash out knowing how damaging that will be then its for purely selfish reasons as there is no mandate for it. Surely what is being proposed above is the only way out now.

Of course if they are the only two options I suspect remain will walk it if the opinion polls are even remotely half accurate.




If there is another vote then there should be 2 questions .........

1.........Accept Mays deal....

2.........Leave with No Deal......

We've already voted on whether we want to leave the EU ..........

You took part in a non-binding advisory referendum on the latter which you seem to think is cast in stone. It's not and never was. Even triggering article 50 did not mean we were obliged by law to leave within two years (which you still think it does), as the electorate were told by the man who drew up the legislation, not only could it be reversed, it could be withdrawn. The referendum also only asked a question....it didn't state what the outcome would be of leaving. Now people have seen what they face.

There's also the small matter of parliamentary sovereignty you lot trumpeted about wanting it protected......yet now want to trample all over it, yet again, to get your Brexit at any cost.


"On Thursday, 23rd June there will be a referendum......"

No mention of it being advisory? ...........

Neither was there any mention of it being legally binding as it wasn't, hence the term 'advisory'. All referendums in UK are 'advisory'. Neither did it state what the outcome of leaving would entail......many have since found far more out on that much to their horror. Neither was there mention of the facts stated in my previous post about article 50. You've ignored inconvenient truths all along throughout the past two and half years and continue to do so even when it's staring you in the face.


The only thing that is being ignored is democracy by you Remoaners ...........

userBarryd999
Posted: 15 January 2019 10:32 AM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Lord of the posts

Posts: 5320
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pelmetman - 2019-01-15 8:47 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 11:56 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 10:50 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 5:02 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 11:52 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-14 11:41 AM

Hmm. Well it looks like the EU is preparing to extend article 50 until "at least" July.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/13/eu-preparing-to-delay-brexit-until-at-least-july

What are you going to do about your countdown thread?

I actually hope they stick to their guns and only extend it for either a GE or a second ref as giving May an extension just to revise her current deal or dress it up better for Parliament will just see us kicking the can down the road where we will be at impasse once again in July.

Meanwhile a group of cross party MPs including the very clever Dominic Grieve have drafted proposed legislation for a second referendum.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/14/second-brexit-referendum-looking-likely-remainer-mps-join-forces-may-defeat-8342440/

It recommends that the proposed question is should the UK remain in the Eu or accept the Prime Minister deal.

This was what the Peoples vote was all about really. Ratifying whatever deal was eventually worked out and if its not what you wanted having the option to remain.

If we remember just about every politician stated in the past that "nobody voted for no deal" etc. No deal should really not be an option now as its totally avoidable now that we know we can revoke article 50 on our own. If this government allow the UK to crash out knowing how damaging that will be then its for purely selfish reasons as there is no mandate for it. Surely what is being proposed above is the only way out now.

Of course if they are the only two options I suspect remain will walk it if the opinion polls are even remotely half accurate.




If there is another vote then there should be 2 questions .........

1.........Accept Mays deal....

2.........Leave with No Deal......

We've already voted on whether we want to leave the EU ..........

You took part in a non-binding advisory referendum on the latter which you seem to think is cast in stone. It's not and never was. Even triggering article 50 did not mean we were obliged by law to leave within two years (which you still think it does), as the electorate were told by the man who drew up the legislation, not only could it be reversed, it could be withdrawn. The referendum also only asked a question....it didn't state what the outcome would be of leaving. Now people have seen what they face.

There's also the small matter of parliamentary sovereignty you lot trumpeted about wanting it protected......yet now want to trample all over it, yet again, to get your Brexit at any cost.


"On Thursday, 23rd June there will be a referendum......"

No mention of it being advisory? ...........

Neither was there any mention of it being legally binding as it wasn't, hence the term 'advisory'. All referendums in UK are 'advisory'. Neither did it state what the outcome of leaving would entail......many have since found far more out on that much to their horror. Neither was there mention of the facts stated in my previous post about article 50. You've ignored inconvenient truths all along throughout the past two and half years and continue to do so even when it's staring you in the face.


The only thing that is being ignored is democracy by you Remoaners ...........



There is an impasse in the government and parliament. Nobody can decide what to do so the people should get to vote on what we do next. How is that ignoring democracy? Would it not be democratic to let the people have the final say? Anyway if Antony's post about Sunderland is correct it should be a landslide for Leave so you have nothing to fear from a second referendum have you?
userBulletguy
Posted: 15 January 2019 5:04 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 9696
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pelmetman - 2019-01-15 8:47 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 11:56 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 10:50 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 5:02 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 11:52 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-14 11:41 AM

Hmm. Well it looks like the EU is preparing to extend article 50 until "at least" July.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/13/eu-preparing-to-delay-brexit-until-at-least-july

What are you going to do about your countdown thread?

I actually hope they stick to their guns and only extend it for either a GE or a second ref as giving May an extension just to revise her current deal or dress it up better for Parliament will just see us kicking the can down the road where we will be at impasse once again in July.

Meanwhile a group of cross party MPs including the very clever Dominic Grieve have drafted proposed legislation for a second referendum.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/14/second-brexit-referendum-looking-likely-remainer-mps-join-forces-may-defeat-8342440/

It recommends that the proposed question is should the UK remain in the Eu or accept the Prime Minister deal.

This was what the Peoples vote was all about really. Ratifying whatever deal was eventually worked out and if its not what you wanted having the option to remain.

If we remember just about every politician stated in the past that "nobody voted for no deal" etc. No deal should really not be an option now as its totally avoidable now that we know we can revoke article 50 on our own. If this government allow the UK to crash out knowing how damaging that will be then its for purely selfish reasons as there is no mandate for it. Surely what is being proposed above is the only way out now.

Of course if they are the only two options I suspect remain will walk it if the opinion polls are even remotely half accurate.




If there is another vote then there should be 2 questions .........

1.........Accept Mays deal....

2.........Leave with No Deal......

We've already voted on whether we want to leave the EU ..........

You took part in a non-binding advisory referendum on the latter which you seem to think is cast in stone. It's not and never was. Even triggering article 50 did not mean we were obliged by law to leave within two years (which you still think it does), as the electorate were told by the man who drew up the legislation, not only could it be reversed, it could be withdrawn. The referendum also only asked a question....it didn't state what the outcome would be of leaving. Now people have seen what they face.

There's also the small matter of parliamentary sovereignty you lot trumpeted about wanting it protected......yet now want to trample all over it, yet again, to get your Brexit at any cost.


"On Thursday, 23rd June there will be a referendum......"

No mention of it being advisory? ...........

Neither was there any mention of it being legally binding as it wasn't, hence the term 'advisory'. All referendums in UK are 'advisory'. Neither did it state what the outcome of leaving would entail......many have since found far more out on that much to their horror. Neither was there mention of the facts stated in my previous post about article 50. You've ignored inconvenient truths all along throughout the past two and half years and continue to do so even when it's staring you in the face.


The only thing that is being ignored is democracy by you Remoaners ...........

It's not "democracy" you want though is it? You want what half the rest of the country don't and believe they have no right to challenge anything on Brexit. That's a dictatorship.....not democracy. May doesn't like democracy as it's let her down in the past and given her recent threats of 'my deal or no deal', i'm astonished anyone at all can support such which is borderline fascism. You parrot your silly little mantra about "will of the people" where what you really mean is 'will of 51.9%' who voted for something they had absolutely no idea of the future consequences. That's now become much more clear as people realise 1000's of jobs are going to be lost and businesses moving out. You've remained oblivious and totally uncaring about these facts throughout purely because it doesn't affect any of your family.
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 January 2019 10:48 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 25909
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Bulletguy - 2019-01-15 5:04 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-15 8:47 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 11:56 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 10:50 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 5:02 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 11:52 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-14 11:41 AM

Hmm. Well it looks like the EU is preparing to extend article 50 until "at least" July.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/13/eu-preparing-to-delay-brexit-until-at-least-july

What are you going to do about your countdown thread?

I actually hope they stick to their guns and only extend it for either a GE or a second ref as giving May an extension just to revise her current deal or dress it up better for Parliament will just see us kicking the can down the road where we will be at impasse once again in July.

Meanwhile a group of cross party MPs including the very clever Dominic Grieve have drafted proposed legislation for a second referendum.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/14/second-brexit-referendum-looking-likely-remainer-mps-join-forces-may-defeat-8342440/

It recommends that the proposed question is should the UK remain in the Eu or accept the Prime Minister deal.

This was what the Peoples vote was all about really. Ratifying whatever deal was eventually worked out and if its not what you wanted having the option to remain.

If we remember just about every politician stated in the past that "nobody voted for no deal" etc. No deal should really not be an option now as its totally avoidable now that we know we can revoke article 50 on our own. If this government allow the UK to crash out knowing how damaging that will be then its for purely selfish reasons as there is no mandate for it. Surely what is being proposed above is the only way out now.

Of course if they are the only two options I suspect remain will walk it if the opinion polls are even remotely half accurate.




If there is another vote then there should be 2 questions .........

1.........Accept Mays deal....

2.........Leave with No Deal......

We've already voted on whether we want to leave the EU ..........

You took part in a non-binding advisory referendum on the latter which you seem to think is cast in stone. It's not and never was. Even triggering article 50 did not mean we were obliged by law to leave within two years (which you still think it does), as the electorate were told by the man who drew up the legislation, not only could it be reversed, it could be withdrawn. The referendum also only asked a question....it didn't state what the outcome would be of leaving. Now people have seen what they face.

There's also the small matter of parliamentary sovereignty you lot trumpeted about wanting it protected......yet now want to trample all over it, yet again, to get your Brexit at any cost.


"On Thursday, 23rd June there will be a referendum......"

No mention of it being advisory? ...........

Neither was there any mention of it being legally binding as it wasn't, hence the term 'advisory'. All referendums in UK are 'advisory'. Neither did it state what the outcome of leaving would entail......many have since found far more out on that much to their horror. Neither was there mention of the facts stated in my previous post about article 50. You've ignored inconvenient truths all along throughout the past two and half years and continue to do so even when it's staring you in the face.


The only thing that is being ignored is democracy by you Remoaners ...........

It's not "democracy" you want though is it? You want what half the rest of the country don't and believe they have no right to challenge anything on Brexit. That's a dictatorship.....not democracy. May doesn't like democracy as it's let her down in the past and given her recent threats of 'my deal or no deal', i'm astonished anyone at all can support such which is borderline fascism. You parrot your silly little mantra about "will of the people" where what you really mean is 'will of 51.9%' who voted for something they had absolutely no idea of the future consequences. That's now become much more clear as people realise 1000's of jobs are going to be lost and businesses moving out. You've remained oblivious and totally uncaring about these facts throughout purely because it doesn't affect any of your family.


I have no problem with Remoaners having another referendum .............

But to be fair they should just wait 40 years like I had to ..........

userpelmetman
Posted: 15 January 2019 10:49 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 25909
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Barryd999 - 2019-01-15 10:32 AM
Anyway if Antony's post about Sunderland is correct it should be a landslide for Leave so you have nothing to fear from a second referendum have you?


Exactly........so there's no point ...........

userBulletguy
Posted: 15 January 2019 11:24 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 9696
500020002000500100252525
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


pelmetman - 2019-01-15 10:48 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-15 5:04 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-15 8:47 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 11:56 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 10:50 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 5:02 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 11:52 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-14 11:41 AM

Hmm. Well it looks like the EU is preparing to extend article 50 until "at least" July.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/13/eu-preparing-to-delay-brexit-until-at-least-july

What are you going to do about your countdown thread?

I actually hope they stick to their guns and only extend it for either a GE or a second ref as giving May an extension just to revise her current deal or dress it up better for Parliament will just see us kicking the can down the road where we will be at impasse once again in July.

Meanwhile a group of cross party MPs including the very clever Dominic Grieve have drafted proposed legislation for a second referendum.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/14/second-brexit-referendum-looking-likely-remainer-mps-join-forces-may-defeat-8342440/

It recommends that the proposed question is should the UK remain in the Eu or accept the Prime Minister deal.

This was what the Peoples vote was all about really. Ratifying whatever deal was eventually worked out and if its not what you wanted having the option to remain.

If we remember just about every politician stated in the past that "nobody voted for no deal" etc. No deal should really not be an option now as its totally avoidable now that we know we can revoke article 50 on our own. If this government allow the UK to crash out knowing how damaging that will be then its for purely selfish reasons as there is no mandate for it. Surely what is being proposed above is the only way out now.

Of course if they are the only two options I suspect remain will walk it if the opinion polls are even remotely half accurate.




If there is another vote then there should be 2 questions .........

1.........Accept Mays deal....

2.........Leave with No Deal......

We've already voted on whether we want to leave the EU ..........

You took part in a non-binding advisory referendum on the latter which you seem to think is cast in stone. It's not and never was. Even triggering article 50 did not mean we were obliged by law to leave within two years (which you still think it does), as the electorate were told by the man who drew up the legislation, not only could it be reversed, it could be withdrawn. The referendum also only asked a question....it didn't state what the outcome would be of leaving. Now people have seen what they face.

There's also the small matter of parliamentary sovereignty you lot trumpeted about wanting it protected......yet now want to trample all over it, yet again, to get your Brexit at any cost.


"On Thursday, 23rd June there will be a referendum......"

No mention of it being advisory? ...........

Neither was there any mention of it being legally binding as it wasn't, hence the term 'advisory'. All referendums in UK are 'advisory'. Neither did it state what the outcome of leaving would entail......many have since found far more out on that much to their horror. Neither was there mention of the facts stated in my previous post about article 50. You've ignored inconvenient truths all along throughout the past two and half years and continue to do so even when it's staring you in the face.


The only thing that is being ignored is democracy by you Remoaners ...........

It's not "democracy" you want though is it? You want what half the rest of the country don't and believe they have no right to challenge anything on Brexit. That's a dictatorship.....not democracy. May doesn't like democracy as it's let her down in the past and given her recent threats of 'my deal or no deal', i'm astonished anyone at all can support such which is borderline fascism. You parrot your silly little mantra about "will of the people" where what you really mean is 'will of 51.9%' who voted for something they had absolutely no idea of the future consequences. That's now become much more clear as people realise 1000's of jobs are going to be lost and businesses moving out. You've remained oblivious and totally uncaring about these facts throughout purely because it doesn't affect any of your family.


I have no problem with Remoaners having another referendum .............

But to be fair they should just wait 40 years like I had to ..........

You never cared 40 years ago and unlikely didn't 5 years ago either yet still can't give a credible explanation as to how you believe leaving the EU is going to benefit you personally. You just saw the referendum as a 'game' to 'play' with no knowledge of the dire consequences it would bring.

A vote now is the only solution with the basic choices being Remain or May's Deal.....each clearly explaining the benefits and losses. No Deal is not an option unless we can isolate the lunatics and put them on an island of their own. It would of course be far easier to immediately withdraw Art50 which would stabalise the economy plus restore security to employment.
userBarryd999
Posted: 15 January 2019 11:29 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Lord of the posts

Posts: 5320
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Location: North Yorkshire Dales - Kontiki 640 Hank the Tank


pelmetman - 2019-01-15 10:49 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-15 10:32 AM
Anyway if Antony's post about Sunderland is correct it should be a landslide for Leave so you have nothing to fear from a second referendum have you?


Exactly........so there's no point ...........



Well there is because then you can really hold the moral high ground. The people will have voted for something they now can be in no doubt as to what it entails and if you win you can enjoy your Brexit safe in the knowledge that the remainers really have no more arguments for another vote or that you didnt know what you were voting for etc. Even Farage was warming to it tonight.

Look at the options. There is no kind of deal that can command a majority in Parliament. There is certainly no majority or even a mandate for no deal and the clock is ticking as you like to remind us. Who is going to break the impasse?

Edited by Barryd999 2019-01-15 11:30 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 January 2019 11:30 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 25909
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Bulletguy - 2019-01-15 11:24 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-15 10:48 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-15 5:04 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-15 8:47 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 11:56 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 10:50 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 5:02 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 11:52 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-14 11:41 AM

Hmm. Well it looks like the EU is preparing to extend article 50 until "at least" July.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/13/eu-preparing-to-delay-brexit-until-at-least-july

What are you going to do about your countdown thread?

I actually hope they stick to their guns and only extend it for either a GE or a second ref as giving May an extension just to revise her current deal or dress it up better for Parliament will just see us kicking the can down the road where we will be at impasse once again in July.

Meanwhile a group of cross party MPs including the very clever Dominic Grieve have drafted proposed legislation for a second referendum.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/14/second-brexit-referendum-looking-likely-remainer-mps-join-forces-may-defeat-8342440/

It recommends that the proposed question is should the UK remain in the Eu or accept the Prime Minister deal.

This was what the Peoples vote was all about really. Ratifying whatever deal was eventually worked out and if its not what you wanted having the option to remain.

If we remember just about every politician stated in the past that "nobody voted for no deal" etc. No deal should really not be an option now as its totally avoidable now that we know we can revoke article 50 on our own. If this government allow the UK to crash out knowing how damaging that will be then its for purely selfish reasons as there is no mandate for it. Surely what is being proposed above is the only way out now.

Of course if they are the only two options I suspect remain will walk it if the opinion polls are even remotely half accurate.




If there is another vote then there should be 2 questions .........

1.........Accept Mays deal....

2.........Leave with No Deal......

We've already voted on whether we want to leave the EU ..........

You took part in a non-binding advisory referendum on the latter which you seem to think is cast in stone. It's not and never was. Even triggering article 50 did not mean we were obliged by law to leave within two years (which you still think it does), as the electorate were told by the man who drew up the legislation, not only could it be reversed, it could be withdrawn. The referendum also only asked a question....it didn't state what the outcome would be of leaving. Now people have seen what they face.

There's also the small matter of parliamentary sovereignty you lot trumpeted about wanting it protected......yet now want to trample all over it, yet again, to get your Brexit at any cost.


"On Thursday, 23rd June there will be a referendum......"

No mention of it being advisory? ...........

Neither was there any mention of it being legally binding as it wasn't, hence the term 'advisory'. All referendums in UK are 'advisory'. Neither did it state what the outcome of leaving would entail......many have since found far more out on that much to their horror. Neither was there mention of the facts stated in my previous post about article 50. You've ignored inconvenient truths all along throughout the past two and half years and continue to do so even when it's staring you in the face.


The only thing that is being ignored is democracy by you Remoaners ...........

It's not "democracy" you want though is it? You want what half the rest of the country don't and believe they have no right to challenge anything on Brexit. That's a dictatorship.....not democracy. May doesn't like democracy as it's let her down in the past and given her recent threats of 'my deal or no deal', i'm astonished anyone at all can support such which is borderline fascism. You parrot your silly little mantra about "will of the people" where what you really mean is 'will of 51.9%' who voted for something they had absolutely no idea of the future consequences. That's now become much more clear as people realise 1000's of jobs are going to be lost and businesses moving out. You've remained oblivious and totally uncaring about these facts throughout purely because it doesn't affect any of your family.


I have no problem with Remoaners having another referendum .............

But to be fair they should just wait 40 years like I had to ..........

You never cared 40 years ago and unlikely didn't 5 years ago either yet still can't give a credible explanation as to how you believe leaving the EU is going to benefit you personally. You just saw the referendum as a 'game' to 'play' with no knowledge of the dire consequences it would bring.

A vote now is the only solution with the basic choices being Remain or May's Deal.....each clearly explaining the benefits and losses. No Deal is not an option unless we can isolate the lunatics and put them on an island of their own. It would of course be far easier to immediately withdraw Art50 which would stabalise the economy plus restore security to employment.


As has already been pointed out........there's no point as the polls indicate that Remoaners are 2% down on where they were before the 2016 referendum ..........

So much for all that hot air that folk were changing their minds ..........

userpelmetman
Posted: 15 January 2019 11:32 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 25909
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Barryd999 - 2019-01-15 11:29 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-15 10:49 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-15 10:32 AM
Anyway if Antony's post about Sunderland is correct it should be a landslide for Leave so you have nothing to fear from a second referendum have you?


Exactly........so there's no point ...........



Well there is because then you can really hold the moral high ground. The people will have voted for something they now can be in no doubt as to what it entails and if you win you can enjoy your Brexit safe in the knowledge that the remainers really have no more arguments for another vote or that you didnt know what you were voting for etc. Even Farage was warming to it tonight.

Look at the options. There is no kind of deal that can command a majority in Parliament. There is certainly no majority or even a mandate for no deal and the clock is ticking as you like to remind us. Who is going to break the impasse?


Unfortunately there's not enough time to arrange one ............and extending article 50 will seriously p*ss off the public who overwhelmingly just want Brexit over ...........

userBulletguy
Posted: 15 January 2019 11:47 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 9696
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Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


pelmetman - 2019-01-15 11:30 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-15 11:24 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-15 10:48 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-15 5:04 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-15 8:47 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 11:56 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 10:50 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 5:02 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 11:52 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-14 11:41 AM

Hmm. Well it looks like the EU is preparing to extend article 50 until "at least" July.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/13/eu-preparing-to-delay-brexit-until-at-least-july

What are you going to do about your countdown thread?

I actually hope they stick to their guns and only extend it for either a GE or a second ref as giving May an extension just to revise her current deal or dress it up better for Parliament will just see us kicking the can down the road where we will be at impasse once again in July.

Meanwhile a group of cross party MPs including the very clever Dominic Grieve have drafted proposed legislation for a second referendum.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/14/second-brexit-referendum-looking-likely-remainer-mps-join-forces-may-defeat-8342440/

It recommends that the proposed question is should the UK remain in the Eu or accept the Prime Minister deal.

This was what the Peoples vote was all about really. Ratifying whatever deal was eventually worked out and if its not what you wanted having the option to remain.

If we remember just about every politician stated in the past that "nobody voted for no deal" etc. No deal should really not be an option now as its totally avoidable now that we know we can revoke article 50 on our own. If this government allow the UK to crash out knowing how damaging that will be then its for purely selfish reasons as there is no mandate for it. Surely what is being proposed above is the only way out now.

Of course if they are the only two options I suspect remain will walk it if the opinion polls are even remotely half accurate.




If there is another vote then there should be 2 questions .........

1.........Accept Mays deal....

2.........Leave with No Deal......

We've already voted on whether we want to leave the EU ..........

You took part in a non-binding advisory referendum on the latter which you seem to think is cast in stone. It's not and never was. Even triggering article 50 did not mean we were obliged by law to leave within two years (which you still think it does), as the electorate were told by the man who drew up the legislation, not only could it be reversed, it could be withdrawn. The referendum also only asked a question....it didn't state what the outcome would be of leaving. Now people have seen what they face.

There's also the small matter of parliamentary sovereignty you lot trumpeted about wanting it protected......yet now want to trample all over it, yet again, to get your Brexit at any cost.


"On Thursday, 23rd June there will be a referendum......"

No mention of it being advisory? ...........

Neither was there any mention of it being legally binding as it wasn't, hence the term 'advisory'. All referendums in UK are 'advisory'. Neither did it state what the outcome of leaving would entail......many have since found far more out on that much to their horror. Neither was there mention of the facts stated in my previous post about article 50. You've ignored inconvenient truths all along throughout the past two and half years and continue to do so even when it's staring you in the face.


The only thing that is being ignored is democracy by you Remoaners ...........

It's not "democracy" you want though is it? You want what half the rest of the country don't and believe they have no right to challenge anything on Brexit. That's a dictatorship.....not democracy. May doesn't like democracy as it's let her down in the past and given her recent threats of 'my deal or no deal', i'm astonished anyone at all can support such which is borderline fascism. You parrot your silly little mantra about "will of the people" where what you really mean is 'will of 51.9%' who voted for something they had absolutely no idea of the future consequences. That's now become much more clear as people realise 1000's of jobs are going to be lost and businesses moving out. You've remained oblivious and totally uncaring about these facts throughout purely because it doesn't affect any of your family.


I have no problem with Remoaners having another referendum .............

But to be fair they should just wait 40 years like I had to ..........

You never cared 40 years ago and unlikely didn't 5 years ago either yet still can't give a credible explanation as to how you believe leaving the EU is going to benefit you personally. You just saw the referendum as a 'game' to 'play' with no knowledge of the dire consequences it would bring.

A vote now is the only solution with the basic choices being Remain or May's Deal.....each clearly explaining the benefits and losses. No Deal is not an option unless we can isolate the lunatics and put them on an island of their own. It would of course be far easier to immediately withdraw Art50 which would stabalise the economy plus restore security to employment.


As has already been pointed out........there's no point as the polls indicate that Remoaners are 2% down on where they were before the 2016 referendum ..........

So much for all that hot air that folk were changing their minds ..........

Talking about "changing minds" you've just gone from "having no problem with Remainers having another referendum" (to be correct it would be the electorate), to "there's no point" in the space of two posts!

Also you don't follow polls.....only pro-Brexity ones which tell you what you want to hear.
userpelmetman
Posted: 16 January 2019 9:41 AM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 25909
50005000500050005000500100100100100
Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Bulletguy - 2019-01-15 11:47 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-15 11:30 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-15 11:24 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-15 10:48 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-15 5:04 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-15 8:47 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 11:56 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 10:50 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-14 5:02 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-14 11:52 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-14 11:41 AM

Hmm. Well it looks like the EU is preparing to extend article 50 until "at least" July.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/13/eu-preparing-to-delay-brexit-until-at-least-july

What are you going to do about your countdown thread?

I actually hope they stick to their guns and only extend it for either a GE or a second ref as giving May an extension just to revise her current deal or dress it up better for Parliament will just see us kicking the can down the road where we will be at impasse once again in July.

Meanwhile a group of cross party MPs including the very clever Dominic Grieve have drafted proposed legislation for a second referendum.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/14/second-brexit-referendum-looking-likely-remainer-mps-join-forces-may-defeat-8342440/

It recommends that the proposed question is should the UK remain in the Eu or accept the Prime Minister deal.

This was what the Peoples vote was all about really. Ratifying whatever deal was eventually worked out and if its not what you wanted having the option to remain.

If we remember just about every politician stated in the past that "nobody voted for no deal" etc. No deal should really not be an option now as its totally avoidable now that we know we can revoke article 50 on our own. If this government allow the UK to crash out knowing how damaging that will be then its for purely selfish reasons as there is no mandate for it. Surely what is being proposed above is the only way out now.

Of course if they are the only two options I suspect remain will walk it if the opinion polls are even remotely half accurate.




If there is another vote then there should be 2 questions .........

1.........Accept Mays deal....

2.........Leave with No Deal......

We've already voted on whether we want to leave the EU ..........

You took part in a non-binding advisory referendum on the latter which you seem to think is cast in stone. It's not and never was. Even triggering article 50 did not mean we were obliged by law to leave within two years (which you still think it does), as the electorate were told by the man who drew up the legislation, not only could it be reversed, it could be withdrawn. The referendum also only asked a question....it didn't state what the outcome would be of leaving. Now people have seen what they face.

There's also the small matter of parliamentary sovereignty you lot trumpeted about wanting it protected......yet now want to trample all over it, yet again, to get your Brexit at any cost.


"On Thursday, 23rd June there will be a referendum......"

No mention of it being advisory? ...........

Neither was there any mention of it being legally binding as it wasn't, hence the term 'advisory'. All referendums in UK are 'advisory'. Neither did it state what the outcome of leaving would entail......many have since found far more out on that much to their horror. Neither was there mention of the facts stated in my previous post about article 50. You've ignored inconvenient truths all along throughout the past two and half years and continue to do so even when it's staring you in the face.


The only thing that is being ignored is democracy by you Remoaners ...........

It's not "democracy" you want though is it? You want what half the rest of the country don't and believe they have no right to challenge anything on Brexit. That's a dictatorship.....not democracy. May doesn't like democracy as it's let her down in the past and given her recent threats of 'my deal or no deal', i'm astonished anyone at all can support such which is borderline fascism. You parrot your silly little mantra about "will of the people" where what you really mean is 'will of 51.9%' who voted for something they had absolutely no idea of the future consequences. That's now become much more clear as people realise 1000's of jobs are going to be lost and businesses moving out. You've remained oblivious and totally uncaring about these facts throughout purely because it doesn't affect any of your family.


I have no problem with Remoaners having another referendum .............

But to be fair they should just wait 40 years like I had to ..........

You never cared 40 years ago and unlikely didn't 5 years ago either yet still can't give a credible explanation as to how you believe leaving the EU is going to benefit you personally. You just saw the referendum as a 'game' to 'play' with no knowledge of the dire consequences it would bring.

A vote now is the only solution with the basic choices being Remain or May's Deal.....each clearly explaining the benefits and losses. No Deal is not an option unless we can isolate the lunatics and put them on an island of their own. It would of course be far easier to immediately withdraw Art50 which would stabalise the economy plus restore security to employment.


As has already been pointed out........there's no point as the polls indicate that Remoaners are 2% down on where they were before the 2016 referendum ..........

So much for all that hot air that folk were changing their minds ..........

Talking about "changing minds" you've just gone from "having no problem with Remainers having another referendum" (to be correct it would be the electorate), to "there's no point" in the space of two posts!

Also you don't follow polls.....only pro-Brexity ones which tell you what you want to hear.


The poll I listed was the poll of polls ...........

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/euref2-poll-of-polls/

Which shows that Remoaners have lost 2% compared to where they were the day before the actual referendum ..............

So there's no point in wasting money on another referendum ........

Besides if we did have one and you won........that would only be advisory wouldn't it? ...........



Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-16 9:45 AM
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 16 January 2019 12:34 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-16 9:41 AM...…………………………..
The poll I listed was the poll of polls ...........
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/euref2-poll-of-polls/
Which shows that Remoaners have lost 2% compared to where they were the day before the actual referendum ..............
So there's no point in wasting money on another referendum ........
Besides if we did have one and you won........that would only be advisory wouldn't it? ...........

Dave, there is no way to say this gently, but you seem to have misread the charts.

The bar chart shows remain on 54% and leave on 46%, which is a much wider difference in favour of remain than was achieved in the referendum by leave.

The line chart shows a consistent preference for remain from January 2018 (with the exception of a few weeks in early March 2018) to the present, with an upkick between 11 and 14 January 2019 to its highest yet level, as above. The trend, at present, is in favour of remain.

But Brexit is, in any case, a unicorn.

First, there is no version that results in forecast economic benefits over what we have now.

Second, it cannot be implemented in the absence of a solution to the Irish border.

The Irish border problem cannot be solved without physical border controls, because post Brexit it would become a land border between the UK and the EU, at which there must be customs and immigration checks.

Customs and immigration checks cannon be introduced along the border for two reasons.

First, the Belfast Agreement, under which no such installations are permissible.

Second, because, due to the physical nature of the border, the installation of any such check points is impractical, save in a few locations.

The Irish border is itself the product of the Government of Ireland Act 1920 (A UK Act of Parliament)which came into force in 1921. It is basically an unpoliceable administrative border that was never supposed to become an international border. It has never previously been a proper international border, which is why it has survived in its present form. The UK and the Republic of Ireland "fudged" its creation by removing checks on cross-border movements, from soon after its creation up until the time at which both the UK and Ireland simultaneously joined the EEC in 1973. Once both were in the EEC (but especially after the Single European Act of 1993 created the European Single Marked), it became more or less irrelevant (apart from various periods during "the troubles") as freedom of movement, in conjunction with the pre-existing agreements on UK-Ireland movements, rendered it no more than a line on a map.

It has no relevance as a border until the UK leaves that EU, but at that point, under whatever form of Brexit is adopted, it assumes huge political, economic, security, and practical significance. Since it is a British idea, and since our MPs should all be aware of at least its potential as a flashpoint under the Belfast Agreement, it is inexplicable that no-one even mentioned it as an issue (so far as I can remember) during the whole of the Brexit debate before the referendum, and that it has only emerged as an issue in the latter stages of the negotiations on the withdrawal agreement.

It is the Gordian Knot that renders Brexit a unicorn. So, unless and until someone works out how to untie it, Brexit cannot take place. It is an entirely British construct, which under present circumstances seems to me a tad ironic.
userpelmetman
Posted: 16 January 2019 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 12:34 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 9:41 AM...…………………………..
The poll I listed was the poll of polls ...........
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/euref2-poll-of-polls/
Which shows that Remoaners have lost 2% compared to where they were the day before the actual referendum ..............
So there's no point in wasting money on another referendum ........
Besides if we did have one and you won........that would only be advisory wouldn't it? ...........

Dave, there is no way to say this gently, but you seem to have misread the charts.

The bar chart shows remain on 54% and leave on 46%, which is a much wider difference in favour of remain than was achieved in the referendum by leave.

The line chart shows a consistent preference for remain from January 2018 (with the exception of a few weeks in early March 2018) to the present, with an upkick between 11 and 14 January 2019 to its highest yet level, as above. The trend, at present, is in favour of remain.

.


Did I miss read this poll to? ............

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-on-referendum-day-2/

Results for: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union? (asked on referendum day)
Fieldwork end date
Pollster 23 June 2016
Poll by Ipsos MORI

Remain a member of the EU 55%

Leave the EU 45%

Just goes to show.......that all your Remoaner whinging has achieved is a 2% drop in the polls .........

It appears that the Unicorns were wrong........there hasn't been a swing to Remain .........



Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-16 12:55 PM
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