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May elections?..........
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userBrian Kirby
Posted: 16 January 2019 1:06 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-16 12:53 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 12:34 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 9:41 AM...…………………………..
The poll I listed was the poll of polls ...........
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/euref2-poll-of-polls/
Which shows that Remoaners have lost 2% compared to where they were the day before the actual referendum ..............
So there's no point in wasting money on another referendum ........
Besides if we did have one and you won........that would only be advisory wouldn't it? ...........

Dave, there is no way to say this gently, but you seem to have misread the charts.

The bar chart shows remain on 54% and leave on 46%, which is a much wider difference in favour of remain than was achieved in the referendum by leave.

The line chart shows a consistent preference for remain from January 2018 (with the exception of a few weeks in early March 2018) to the present, with an upkick between 11 and 14 January 2019 to its highest yet level, as above. The trend, at present, is in favour of remain.

.


Did I miss read this poll to? ............
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-on-referendum-day-2/
Results for: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union? (asked on referendum day)
Fieldwork end date
Pollster 23 June 2016
Poll by Ipsos MORI
Remain a member of the EU 55%
Leave the EU 45%
Just goes to show.......that all your Remoaner whinging has achieved is a 2% drop in the polls .........
It appears that the Unicorns were wrong........there hasn't been a swing to Remain ......…

Well, did you, as you didn't link to it? Even so, it shows a preference for remain, doesn't it, which is what the other polls all show. Just remind me what the percentage in favour of leave was in the referendum. Besides, you ignore the nearly flat line in favour of remain over the past year, apart from those few weeks in early March 2018.

But, you also ignore the Irish border Gordian Knot. It doesn't matter a hoot what people want, however much they stamp their feet and wail, they can't have Brexit unless and until the Irish border issue is solved. It isn't anyone else's problem to solve, it is an entirely UK created problem, and it only arises in the event of Brexit - any form of Brexit. So, it is for those who want Brexiters to solve, or Brexit is, and always was, dead.
userpelmetman
Posted: 16 January 2019 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 1:06 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 12:53 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 12:34 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 9:41 AM...…………………………..
The poll I listed was the poll of polls ...........
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/euref2-poll-of-polls/
Which shows that Remoaners have lost 2% compared to where they were the day before the actual referendum ..............
So there's no point in wasting money on another referendum ........
Besides if we did have one and you won........that would only be advisory wouldn't it? ...........

Dave, there is no way to say this gently, but you seem to have misread the charts.

The bar chart shows remain on 54% and leave on 46%, which is a much wider difference in favour of remain than was achieved in the referendum by leave.

The line chart shows a consistent preference for remain from January 2018 (with the exception of a few weeks in early March 2018) to the present, with an upkick between 11 and 14 January 2019 to its highest yet level, as above. The trend, at present, is in favour of remain.

.


Did I miss read this poll to? ............
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-on-referendum-day-2/
Results for: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union? (asked on referendum day)
Fieldwork end date
Pollster 23 June 2016
Poll by Ipsos MORI
Remain a member of the EU 55%
Leave the EU 45%
Just goes to show.......that all your Remoaner whinging has achieved is a 2% drop in the polls .........
It appears that the Unicorns were wrong........there hasn't been a swing to Remain ......…

Well, did you, as you didn't link to it? Even so, it shows a preference for remain, doesn't it, which is what the other polls all show. Just remind me what the percentage in favour of leave was in the referendum. Besides, you ignore the nearly flat line in favour of remain over the past year, apart from those few weeks in early March 2018.

But, you also ignore the Irish border Gordian Knot. It doesn't matter a hoot what people want, however much they stamp their feet and wail, they can't have Brexit unless and until the Irish border issue is solved. It isn't anyone else's problem to solve, it is an entirely UK created problem, and it only arises in the event of Brexit - any form of Brexit. So, it is for those who want Brexiters to solve, or Brexit is, and always was, dead.


How did you miss this link?

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-on-referendum-day-2/

Whilst you ignore the FACT that prior to the last Referendum, Remain had a even bigger lead for months prior to the actual vote ...........Yet you still LOST ......

As for the so called Irish border problem........there is no problem unless the EU or Ireland decide to create one ...........



Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-16 1:53 PM
userBarryd999
Posted: 16 January 2019 1:52 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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You also have to take into account that the way polls are done now is supposedly much more accurate than it was in 2016 but never the less there has not been an apparent massive swing but then if you look at some of the surveys in Brexit heartlands there apparently and the Peoples votes sticky boards in all the towns across the country tell a different story but then you see the Sunderland poll that Antony posted the other day which apparently shows 70% in favour of no deal which seems impossible to believe so what does that all tell us? Absolutely feck all really. I would tend to think the tracker poll is reasonably accurate but here is the thing. We wont really be able to properly gauge UK wide opinion until there is another campaign and everyone is engaged again. My summary would be as I Said the other day. People that are engaged are generally entrenched in their views and those that are not engaged are no more the wiser than they were two and a half years ago.

There has to be some way out of this Impasse and I cannot see another way out other than putting it back to the people.

Dominic Grieve has tabled a bill for next Wednesday which IMO is way too early but he is mega clever and could just be the bloke that sorts out the mess. There are not the numbers yet though and why he thinks there might be in a weeks time I dunno.

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-second-eu-referendum-dominic-grieve-bills/

userpelmetman
Posted: 16 January 2019 1:59 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-16 1:52 PM

You also have to take into account that the way polls are done now is supposedly much more accurate than it was in 2016 but never the less there has not been an apparent massive swing but then if you look at some of the surveys in Brexit heartlands there apparently and the Peoples votes sticky boards in all the towns across the country tell a different story but then you see the Sunderland poll that Antony posted the other day which apparently shows 70% in favour of no deal which seems impossible to believe so what does that all tell us? Absolutely feck all really. I would tend to think the tracker poll is reasonably accurate but here is the thing. We wont really be able to properly gauge UK wide opinion until there is another campaign and everyone is engaged again. My summary would be as I Said the other day. People that are engaged are generally entrenched in their views and those that are not engaged are no more the wiser than they were two and a half years ago.

There has to be some way out of this Impasse and I cannot see another way out other than putting it back to the people.

Dominic Grieve has tabled a bill for next Wednesday which IMO is way too early but he is mega clever and could just be the bloke that sorts out the mess. There are not the numbers yet though and why he thinks there might be in a weeks time I dunno.

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-second-eu-referendum-dominic-grieve-bills/



What evidence do you have that the polls have improved? ...........They got it wrong for the election as well didn't they? .............

Besides what happens if you have another referendum and we vote for leave again......what then? .........best of 3? ...........
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 16 January 2019 2:50 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-16 1:48 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 1:06 PM
Well, did you, as you didn't link to it? Even so, it shows a preference for remain, doesn't it, which is what the other polls all show. Just remind me what the percentage in favour of leave was in the referendum. Besides, you ignore the nearly flat line in favour of remain over the past year, apart from those few weeks in early March 2018.
But, you also ignore the Irish border Gordian Knot. It doesn't matter a hoot what people want, however much they stamp their feet and wail, they can't have Brexit unless and until the Irish border issue is solved. It isn't anyone else's problem to solve, it is an entirely UK created problem, and it only arises in the event of Brexit - any form of Brexit. So, it is for those who want Brexiters to solve, or Brexit is, and always was, dead.

How did you miss this link?
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-on-referendum-day-2/
Whilst you ignore the FACT that prior to the last Referendum, Remain had a even bigger lead for months prior to the actual vote ...........Yet you still LOST ......
As for the so called Irish border problem........there is no problem unless the EU or Ireland decide to create one ...........

How did I miss that link? Because you didn't link to it in the post I replied to.

Ah, now I understand, you're encouraged to see a poll that shows remain in the majority because you think that must mean that leave is, actually, in the majority. That is on the basis that the pre-referendum polls overestimated the remain vote, so must still be overestimating. OK, if you say so.

Irish border. There is a problem. It is not true to say that there will only be a problem if the EU or Ireland creates one. There has to be a physical border, at which goods and people can be checked. With the Irish border, that is for all practical purposes impossible. Without such controls, where is the undertaking, under Brexit, to "take back control of our borders". There are no border controls between Ireland and France so, in the absence of border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland, there would be no control points between the UK and the EU. Think of all those migrants waiting in France to enter the UK. Job done! All they need is a few coaches, and Bob's your Uncle.

Can you find another EU land border anywhere with no border controls? It cannot be done. As soon as border controls were introduced (assuming anyone could envisage a way to implement them) the Belfast Agreement (AKA the Good Friday Agreement) would be breached. That has potentially the most serious results for the UK of all, whoever actually tried to close the border. You may imagine that the UK would be able to hold up its hands and walk off saying "it weren't me mate", but no-one is going to wear that, are they? They'll all know that it was the Brexiters in the UK who voted for the border to be closed.

At that point you will no longer be dealing with state entities, you will be dealing with a number of militias who answer only to themselves. If you think you're a bit hard and unyielding, you ain't seen nothing. You must have been in at least your 30's when the Belfast Agreement was signed, so you must be aware of it - and of what had been going on in the UK and Ulster since 1974.
userBulletguy
Posted: 16 January 2019 3:49 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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dbl post

Edited by Bulletguy 2019-01-16 3:52 PM
userBulletguy
Posted: 16 January 2019 3:49 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 12:34 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 9:41 AM...…………………………..
The poll I listed was the poll of polls ...........
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/euref2-poll-of-polls/
Which shows that Remoaners have lost 2% compared to where they were the day before the actual referendum ..............
So there's no point in wasting money on another referendum ........
Besides if we did have one and you won........that would only be advisory wouldn't it? ...........

Dave, there is no way to say this gently, but you seem to have misread the charts.

The bar chart shows remain on 54% and leave on 46%, which is a much wider difference in favour of remain than was achieved in the referendum by leave.

Pelmethead doesn't do that 'reading stuff'. He looks at snappy soundbites, headers or pictures. This was what he needed off his own link and it's that big and in pretty colours, i don't know how he missed it.



(Pelmets Poll of Polls showing Remain lead.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Pelmets Poll of Polls showing Remain lead.JPG (25KB - 16 downloads)
userpelmetman
Posted: 16 January 2019 10:56 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-01-16 3:49 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 12:34 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 9:41 AM...…………………………..
The poll I listed was the poll of polls ...........
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/euref2-poll-of-polls/
Which shows that Remoaners have lost 2% compared to where they were the day before the actual referendum ..............
So there's no point in wasting money on another referendum ........
Besides if we did have one and you won........that would only be advisory wouldn't it? ...........

Dave, there is no way to say this gently, but you seem to have misread the charts.

The bar chart shows remain on 54% and leave on 46%, which is a much wider difference in favour of remain than was achieved in the referendum by leave.

Pelmethead doesn't do that 'reading stuff'. He looks at snappy soundbites, headers or pictures. This was what he needed off his own link and it's that big and in pretty colours, i don't know how he missed it.


Well done Bullet ..........

The poll on the day of the referendum showed 55% for Remain........So after 2 and a half years of belly aching you have dropped in the polls ............

So much for the massive swing to Remain you keep on bleating about .........

userpelmetman
Posted: 16 January 2019 11:06 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 2:50 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 1:48 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 1:06 PM
Well, did you, as you didn't link to it? Even so, it shows a preference for remain, doesn't it, which is what the other polls all show. Just remind me what the percentage in favour of leave was in the referendum. Besides, you ignore the nearly flat line in favour of remain over the past year, apart from those few weeks in early March 2018.
But, you also ignore the Irish border Gordian Knot. It doesn't matter a hoot what people want, however much they stamp their feet and wail, they can't have Brexit unless and until the Irish border issue is solved. It isn't anyone else's problem to solve, it is an entirely UK created problem, and it only arises in the event of Brexit - any form of Brexit. So, it is for those who want Brexiters to solve, or Brexit is, and always was, dead.

How did you miss this link?
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-on-referendum-day-2/
Whilst you ignore the FACT that prior to the last Referendum, Remain had a even bigger lead for months prior to the actual vote ...........Yet you still LOST ......
As for the so called Irish border problem........there is no problem unless the EU or Ireland decide to create one ...........

How did I miss that link? Because you didn't link to it in the post I replied to.

Ah, now I understand, you're encouraged to see a poll that shows remain in the majority because you think that must mean that leave is, actually, in the majority. That is on the basis that the pre-referendum polls overestimated the remain vote, so must still be overestimating. OK, if you say so.

Irish border. There is a problem. It is not true to say that there will only be a problem if the EU or Ireland creates one. There has to be a physical border, at which goods and people can be checked. With the Irish border, that is for all practical purposes impossible. Without such controls, where is the undertaking, under Brexit, to "take back control of our borders". There are no border controls between Ireland and France so, in the absence of border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland, there would be no control points between the UK and the EU. Think of all those migrants waiting in France to enter the UK. Job done! All they need is a few coaches, and Bob's your Uncle.

Can you find another EU land border anywhere with no border controls? It cannot be done. As soon as border controls were introduced (assuming anyone could envisage a way to implement them) the Belfast Agreement (AKA the Good Friday Agreement) would be breached. That has potentially the most serious results for the UK of all, whoever actually tried to close the border. You may imagine that the UK would be able to hold up its hands and walk off saying "it weren't me mate", but no-one is going to wear that, are they? They'll all know that it was the Brexiters in the UK who voted for the border to be closed.

At that point you will no longer be dealing with state entities, you will be dealing with a number of militias who answer only to themselves. If you think you're a bit hard and unyielding, you ain't seen nothing. You must have been in at least your 30's when the Belfast Agreement was signed, so you must be aware of it - and of what had been going on in the UK and Ulster since 1974.


There was never a hard customs border between Ireland and NI before.........Nor when the Irish joined the EU a year earlier than us in 73 ............

The EU are just creating a problem for their own ends .........

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dups-arlene-foster-says-there-was-never-a-hard-border-in-ireland-37714456.html



Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-16 11:09 PM
userBulletguy
Posted: 16 January 2019 11:11 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-16 10:56 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-16 3:49 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 12:34 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 9:41 AM...…………………………..
The poll I listed was the poll of polls ...........
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/euref2-poll-of-polls/
Which shows that Remoaners have lost 2% compared to where they were the day before the actual referendum ..............
So there's no point in wasting money on another referendum ........
Besides if we did have one and you won........that would only be advisory wouldn't it? ...........

Dave, there is no way to say this gently, but you seem to have misread the charts.

The bar chart shows remain on 54% and leave on 46%, which is a much wider difference in favour of remain than was achieved in the referendum by leave.

Pelmethead doesn't do that 'reading stuff'. He looks at snappy soundbites, headers or pictures. This was what he needed off his own link and it's that big and in pretty colours, i don't know how he missed it.


Well done Bullet ..........

The poll on the day of the referendum showed 55% for Remain........

The poll you posted, what you proudly called your "poll of polls" dated 14th January 2019 shows Remain in a very clear lead. I've no idea why but somehow you misconstrued this into showing the amazing 'strength' of your Brexit cause when it shows the absolute opposite!

Still sure about the security of that second vote?
userBulletguy
Posted: 16 January 2019 11:22 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-16 11:06 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 2:50 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 1:48 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 1:06 PM
Well, did you, as you didn't link to it? Even so, it shows a preference for remain, doesn't it, which is what the other polls all show. Just remind me what the percentage in favour of leave was in the referendum. Besides, you ignore the nearly flat line in favour of remain over the past year, apart from those few weeks in early March 2018.
But, you also ignore the Irish border Gordian Knot. It doesn't matter a hoot what people want, however much they stamp their feet and wail, they can't have Brexit unless and until the Irish border issue is solved. It isn't anyone else's problem to solve, it is an entirely UK created problem, and it only arises in the event of Brexit - any form of Brexit. So, it is for those who want Brexiters to solve, or Brexit is, and always was, dead.

How did you miss this link?
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-on-referendum-day-2/
Whilst you ignore the FACT that prior to the last Referendum, Remain had a even bigger lead for months prior to the actual vote ...........Yet you still LOST ......
As for the so called Irish border problem........there is no problem unless the EU or Ireland decide to create one ...........

How did I miss that link? Because you didn't link to it in the post I replied to.

Ah, now I understand, you're encouraged to see a poll that shows remain in the majority because you think that must mean that leave is, actually, in the majority. That is on the basis that the pre-referendum polls overestimated the remain vote, so must still be overestimating. OK, if you say so.

Irish border. There is a problem. It is not true to say that there will only be a problem if the EU or Ireland creates one. There has to be a physical border, at which goods and people can be checked. With the Irish border, that is for all practical purposes impossible. Without such controls, where is the undertaking, under Brexit, to "take back control of our borders". There are no border controls between Ireland and France so, in the absence of border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland, there would be no control points between the UK and the EU. Think of all those migrants waiting in France to enter the UK. Job done! All they need is a few coaches, and Bob's your Uncle.

Can you find another EU land border anywhere with no border controls? It cannot be done. As soon as border controls were introduced (assuming anyone could envisage a way to implement them) the Belfast Agreement (AKA the Good Friday Agreement) would be breached. That has potentially the most serious results for the UK of all, whoever actually tried to close the border. You may imagine that the UK would be able to hold up its hands and walk off saying "it weren't me mate", but no-one is going to wear that, are they? They'll all know that it was the Brexiters in the UK who voted for the border to be closed.

At that point you will no longer be dealing with state entities, you will be dealing with a number of militias who answer only to themselves. If you think you're a bit hard and unyielding, you ain't seen nothing. You must have been in at least your 30's when the Belfast Agreement was signed, so you must be aware of it - and of what had been going on in the UK and Ulster since 1974.


There was never a hard customs border between Ireland and NI before.........Nor when the Irish joined the EU a year earlier than us in 73 ............

The EU are just creating a problem for their own ends .........

But you voted to "take back control" of "our" borders didn't you? That was one of the silly soundbites trumpeted by the Brexit camp. None of 'em told you about the Good Friday Agreement and tonight Ireland left UK Gov in no doubt at all over where they stand on that. That is sacrosanct. Meddle with that and there will be serious trouble.

No it never was "the EU creating a problem"........you lot created it because 1) you were ill informed and 2) naive. Brexiters have got to start taking responsibility for the mess you've created instead of blaming the EU all the time because you've had all this pointed out to you numerous times, just the same as Brian did over migration but you haven't taken the slightest bit of notice.
userpelmetman
Posted: 16 January 2019 11:23 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-01-16 11:11 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 10:56 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-16 3:49 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 12:34 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 9:41 AM...…………………………..
The poll I listed was the poll of polls ...........
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/euref2-poll-of-polls/
Which shows that Remoaners have lost 2% compared to where they were the day before the actual referendum ..............
So there's no point in wasting money on another referendum ........
Besides if we did have one and you won........that would only be advisory wouldn't it? ...........

Dave, there is no way to say this gently, but you seem to have misread the charts.

The bar chart shows remain on 54% and leave on 46%, which is a much wider difference in favour of remain than was achieved in the referendum by leave.

Pelmethead doesn't do that 'reading stuff'. He looks at snappy soundbites, headers or pictures. This was what he needed off his own link and it's that big and in pretty colours, i don't know how he missed it.


Well done Bullet ..........

The poll on the day of the referendum showed 55% for Remain........

The poll you posted, what you proudly called your "poll of polls" dated 14th January 2019 shows Remain in a very clear lead. I've no idea why but somehow you misconstrued this into showing the amazing 'strength' of your Brexit cause when it shows the absolute opposite!

Still sure about the security of that second vote?


Your missing the point ...........

On the day of the referendum Remoaners had a even bigger lead according to the polls.............and you still LOST .............

userpelmetman
Posted: 16 January 2019 11:32 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24194
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Bulletguy - 2019-01-16 11:22 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 11:06 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 2:50 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 1:48 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 1:06 PM
Well, did you, as you didn't link to it? Even so, it shows a preference for remain, doesn't it, which is what the other polls all show. Just remind me what the percentage in favour of leave was in the referendum. Besides, you ignore the nearly flat line in favour of remain over the past year, apart from those few weeks in early March 2018.
But, you also ignore the Irish border Gordian Knot. It doesn't matter a hoot what people want, however much they stamp their feet and wail, they can't have Brexit unless and until the Irish border issue is solved. It isn't anyone else's problem to solve, it is an entirely UK created problem, and it only arises in the event of Brexit - any form of Brexit. So, it is for those who want Brexiters to solve, or Brexit is, and always was, dead.

How did you miss this link?
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-on-referendum-day-2/
Whilst you ignore the FACT that prior to the last Referendum, Remain had a even bigger lead for months prior to the actual vote ...........Yet you still LOST ......
As for the so called Irish border problem........there is no problem unless the EU or Ireland decide to create one ...........

How did I miss that link? Because you didn't link to it in the post I replied to.

Ah, now I understand, you're encouraged to see a poll that shows remain in the majority because you think that must mean that leave is, actually, in the majority. That is on the basis that the pre-referendum polls overestimated the remain vote, so must still be overestimating. OK, if you say so.

Irish border. There is a problem. It is not true to say that there will only be a problem if the EU or Ireland creates one. There has to be a physical border, at which goods and people can be checked. With the Irish border, that is for all practical purposes impossible. Without such controls, where is the undertaking, under Brexit, to "take back control of our borders". There are no border controls between Ireland and France so, in the absence of border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland, there would be no control points between the UK and the EU. Think of all those migrants waiting in France to enter the UK. Job done! All they need is a few coaches, and Bob's your Uncle.

Can you find another EU land border anywhere with no border controls? It cannot be done. As soon as border controls were introduced (assuming anyone could envisage a way to implement them) the Belfast Agreement (AKA the Good Friday Agreement) would be breached. That has potentially the most serious results for the UK of all, whoever actually tried to close the border. You may imagine that the UK would be able to hold up its hands and walk off saying "it weren't me mate", but no-one is going to wear that, are they? They'll all know that it was the Brexiters in the UK who voted for the border to be closed.

At that point you will no longer be dealing with state entities, you will be dealing with a number of militias who answer only to themselves. If you think you're a bit hard and unyielding, you ain't seen nothing. You must have been in at least your 30's when the Belfast Agreement was signed, so you must be aware of it - and of what had been going on in the UK and Ulster since 1974.


There was never a hard customs border between Ireland and NI before.........Nor when the Irish joined the EU a year earlier than us in 73 ............

The EU are just creating a problem for their own ends .........

But you voted to "take back control" of "our" borders didn't you? That was one of the silly soundbites trumpeted by the Brexit camp. None of 'em told you about the Good Friday Agreement and tonight Ireland left UK Gov in no doubt at all over where they stand on that. That is sacrosanct. Meddle with that and there will be serious trouble.

No it never was "the EU creating a problem"........you lot created it because 1) you were ill informed and 2) naive. Brexiters have got to start taking responsibility for the mess you've created instead of blaming the EU all the time because you've had all this pointed out to you numerous times, just the same as Brian did over migration but you haven't taken the slightest bit of notice.


There's no mention of the border in the Good Friday agreement ..............

For the simple reason there never has been one ...........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Agreement



userBulletguy
Posted: 16 January 2019 11:36 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-16 11:32 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-16 11:22 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 11:06 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 2:50 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 1:48 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 1:06 PM
Well, did you, as you didn't link to it? Even so, it shows a preference for remain, doesn't it, which is what the other polls all show. Just remind me what the percentage in favour of leave was in the referendum. Besides, you ignore the nearly flat line in favour of remain over the past year, apart from those few weeks in early March 2018.
But, you also ignore the Irish border Gordian Knot. It doesn't matter a hoot what people want, however much they stamp their feet and wail, they can't have Brexit unless and until the Irish border issue is solved. It isn't anyone else's problem to solve, it is an entirely UK created problem, and it only arises in the event of Brexit - any form of Brexit. So, it is for those who want Brexiters to solve, or Brexit is, and always was, dead.

How did you miss this link?
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-on-referendum-day-2/
Whilst you ignore the FACT that prior to the last Referendum, Remain had a even bigger lead for months prior to the actual vote ...........Yet you still LOST ......
As for the so called Irish border problem........there is no problem unless the EU or Ireland decide to create one ...........

How did I miss that link? Because you didn't link to it in the post I replied to.

Ah, now I understand, you're encouraged to see a poll that shows remain in the majority because you think that must mean that leave is, actually, in the majority. That is on the basis that the pre-referendum polls overestimated the remain vote, so must still be overestimating. OK, if you say so.

Irish border. There is a problem. It is not true to say that there will only be a problem if the EU or Ireland creates one. There has to be a physical border, at which goods and people can be checked. With the Irish border, that is for all practical purposes impossible. Without such controls, where is the undertaking, under Brexit, to "take back control of our borders". There are no border controls between Ireland and France so, in the absence of border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland, there would be no control points between the UK and the EU. Think of all those migrants waiting in France to enter the UK. Job done! All they need is a few coaches, and Bob's your Uncle.

Can you find another EU land border anywhere with no border controls? It cannot be done. As soon as border controls were introduced (assuming anyone could envisage a way to implement them) the Belfast Agreement (AKA the Good Friday Agreement) would be breached. That has potentially the most serious results for the UK of all, whoever actually tried to close the border. You may imagine that the UK would be able to hold up its hands and walk off saying "it weren't me mate", but no-one is going to wear that, are they? They'll all know that it was the Brexiters in the UK who voted for the border to be closed.

At that point you will no longer be dealing with state entities, you will be dealing with a number of militias who answer only to themselves. If you think you're a bit hard and unyielding, you ain't seen nothing. You must have been in at least your 30's when the Belfast Agreement was signed, so you must be aware of it - and of what had been going on in the UK and Ulster since 1974.


There was never a hard customs border between Ireland and NI before.........Nor when the Irish joined the EU a year earlier than us in 73 ............

The EU are just creating a problem for their own ends .........

But you voted to "take back control" of "our" borders didn't you? That was one of the silly soundbites trumpeted by the Brexit camp. None of 'em told you about the Good Friday Agreement and tonight Ireland left UK Gov in no doubt at all over where they stand on that. That is sacrosanct. Meddle with that and there will be serious trouble.

No it never was "the EU creating a problem"........you lot created it because 1) you were ill informed and 2) naive. Brexiters have got to start taking responsibility for the mess you've created instead of blaming the EU all the time because you've had all this pointed out to you numerous times, just the same as Brian did over migration but you haven't taken the slightest bit of notice.


There's no mention of the border in the Good Friday agreement ..............

For the simple reason there never has been one ...........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Agreement

Belfast Agreement......pedant. Commonly known as GFA because it was drawn up on Good Friday.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-belfast-agreement
userBulletguy
Posted: 16 January 2019 11:49 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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The border Brexiters couldn't "take back control" of........because they forgot about it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc5dmjZBG4c&t=40m30s
userBulletguy
Posted: 17 January 2019 1:59 AM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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The border Brexiters couldn't "take back control" of........because they forgot about it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc5dmjZBG4c&t=30m55s

(re-edited link)
userpelmetman
Posted: 17 January 2019 9:04 AM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-01-16 11:36 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 11:32 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-16 11:22 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 11:06 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 2:50 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 1:48 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 1:06 PM
Well, did you, as you didn't link to it? Even so, it shows a preference for remain, doesn't it, which is what the other polls all show. Just remind me what the percentage in favour of leave was in the referendum. Besides, you ignore the nearly flat line in favour of remain over the past year, apart from those few weeks in early March 2018.
But, you also ignore the Irish border Gordian Knot. It doesn't matter a hoot what people want, however much they stamp their feet and wail, they can't have Brexit unless and until the Irish border issue is solved. It isn't anyone else's problem to solve, it is an entirely UK created problem, and it only arises in the event of Brexit - any form of Brexit. So, it is for those who want Brexiters to solve, or Brexit is, and always was, dead.

How did you miss this link?
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-on-referendum-day-2/
Whilst you ignore the FACT that prior to the last Referendum, Remain had a even bigger lead for months prior to the actual vote ...........Yet you still LOST ......
As for the so called Irish border problem........there is no problem unless the EU or Ireland decide to create one ...........

How did I miss that link? Because you didn't link to it in the post I replied to.

Ah, now I understand, you're encouraged to see a poll that shows remain in the majority because you think that must mean that leave is, actually, in the majority. That is on the basis that the pre-referendum polls overestimated the remain vote, so must still be overestimating. OK, if you say so.

Irish border. There is a problem. It is not true to say that there will only be a problem if the EU or Ireland creates one. There has to be a physical border, at which goods and people can be checked. With the Irish border, that is for all practical purposes impossible. Without such controls, where is the undertaking, under Brexit, to "take back control of our borders". There are no border controls between Ireland and France so, in the absence of border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland, there would be no control points between the UK and the EU. Think of all those migrants waiting in France to enter the UK. Job done! All they need is a few coaches, and Bob's your Uncle.

Can you find another EU land border anywhere with no border controls? It cannot be done. As soon as border controls were introduced (assuming anyone could envisage a way to implement them) the Belfast Agreement (AKA the Good Friday Agreement) would be breached. That has potentially the most serious results for the UK of all, whoever actually tried to close the border. You may imagine that the UK would be able to hold up its hands and walk off saying "it weren't me mate", but no-one is going to wear that, are they? They'll all know that it was the Brexiters in the UK who voted for the border to be closed.

At that point you will no longer be dealing with state entities, you will be dealing with a number of militias who answer only to themselves. If you think you're a bit hard and unyielding, you ain't seen nothing. You must have been in at least your 30's when the Belfast Agreement was signed, so you must be aware of it - and of what had been going on in the UK and Ulster since 1974.


There was never a hard customs border between Ireland and NI before.........Nor when the Irish joined the EU a year earlier than us in 73 ............

The EU are just creating a problem for their own ends .........

But you voted to "take back control" of "our" borders didn't you? That was one of the silly soundbites trumpeted by the Brexit camp. None of 'em told you about the Good Friday Agreement and tonight Ireland left UK Gov in no doubt at all over where they stand on that. That is sacrosanct. Meddle with that and there will be serious trouble.

No it never was "the EU creating a problem"........you lot created it because 1) you were ill informed and 2) naive. Brexiters have got to start taking responsibility for the mess you've created instead of blaming the EU all the time because you've had all this pointed out to you numerous times, just the same as Brian did over migration but you haven't taken the slightest bit of notice.


There's no mention of the border in the Good Friday agreement ..............

For the simple reason there never has been one ...........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Agreement

Belfast Agreement......pedant. Commonly known as GFA because it was drawn up on Good Friday.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-belfast-agreement


So where does it mention the border? ..............Pedant .........



Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-17 9:06 AM
userBarryd999
Posted: 17 January 2019 12:56 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-16 1:59 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-16 1:52 PM

You also have to take into account that the way polls are done now is supposedly much more accurate than it was in 2016 but never the less there has not been an apparent massive swing but then if you look at some of the surveys in Brexit heartlands there apparently and the Peoples votes sticky boards in all the towns across the country tell a different story but then you see the Sunderland poll that Antony posted the other day which apparently shows 70% in favour of no deal which seems impossible to believe so what does that all tell us? Absolutely feck all really. I would tend to think the tracker poll is reasonably accurate but here is the thing. We wont really be able to properly gauge UK wide opinion until there is another campaign and everyone is engaged again. My summary would be as I Said the other day. People that are engaged are generally entrenched in their views and those that are not engaged are no more the wiser than they were two and a half years ago.

There has to be some way out of this Impasse and I cannot see another way out other than putting it back to the people.

Dominic Grieve has tabled a bill for next Wednesday which IMO is way too early but he is mega clever and could just be the bloke that sorts out the mess. There are not the numbers yet though and why he thinks there might be in a weeks time I dunno.

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-second-eu-referendum-dominic-grieve-bills/



What evidence do you have that the polls have improved? ...........They got it wrong for the election as well didn't they? .............

Besides what happens if you have another referendum and we vote for leave again......what then? .........best of 3? ...........


Why do you keep coming out with the same old Brexiteer soundbite of "best of three"? Firstly this would be the third vote as the one in 2016 was the second on our Eu membership and secondly if leave win on another referendum then that would be it for the time being at least. If Leave lose then your more than welcome to start another campaign for yet another one which is exactly what Vote Leave did when they thought they were about to lose the last referendum as it was them that started the biggest petition in history for another referendum which gained 4.1 million signatures.

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 17 January 2019 4:08 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-16 11:06 PM..........................
1 There was never a hard customs border between Ireland and NI before.........
2 Nor when the Irish joined the EU a year earlier than us in 73 ............
3 The EU are just creating a problem for their own ends .........


1 Correct, as should have been clear from what I wrote, had you read it.

2 Incorrect. UK and Ireland both joined on 1 Jan 1973.

3 You just don't get it do you? If the UK leaves the EU the status of the Irish border will change to something it has never previously been - right back to and including the Lordship of Ireland in 1177!

Post Brexit, that entirely accidental 310 mile border with 270 road crossings, that straggles around most of Ulster, that is virtually invisible and unmarked except on maps, that wanders through villages, that crosses people gardens, that wanders across fields, meanders along river banks, and crosses loughs, will become the only land border between the UK and the EU. That is what will be different.

It is that which will, one way or another, have to have ways of preventing people, livestock, and goods, from crossing uncontrolled (remember that bit about taking control of our borders?). And, when that happens, the Belfast Agreement (Good Friday Agreement, Irish Peace Agreement, whatever you prefer) will automatically be breached.

So, how long after that before the IRA start accumulating the means to remove whatever barriers, checkpoints etc are erected to secure the border, and how long after that before someone's army (and it will be the British army, won't it, at the request of the DUP and others?) are sent to stop the IRA, and then, of course, the UVF will just have to join in the fun. And if you think they have all just gone away, you really do live in cloudcuckoo land.
userBulletguy
Posted: 17 January 2019 4:10 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-17 9:04 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-16 11:36 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 11:32 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-16 11:22 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 11:06 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 2:50 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-16 1:48 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-16 1:06 PM
Well, did you, as you didn't link to it? Even so, it shows a preference for remain, doesn't it, which is what the other polls all show. Just remind me what the percentage in favour of leave was in the referendum. Besides, you ignore the nearly flat line in favour of remain over the past year, apart from those few weeks in early March 2018.
But, you also ignore the Irish border Gordian Knot. It doesn't matter a hoot what people want, however much they stamp their feet and wail, they can't have Brexit unless and until the Irish border issue is solved. It isn't anyone else's problem to solve, it is an entirely UK created problem, and it only arises in the event of Brexit - any form of Brexit. So, it is for those who want Brexiters to solve, or Brexit is, and always was, dead.

How did you miss this link?
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-on-referendum-day-2/
Whilst you ignore the FACT that prior to the last Referendum, Remain had a even bigger lead for months prior to the actual vote ...........Yet you still LOST ......
As for the so called Irish border problem........there is no problem unless the EU or Ireland decide to create one ...........

How did I miss that link? Because you didn't link to it in the post I replied to.

Ah, now I understand, you're encouraged to see a poll that shows remain in the majority because you think that must mean that leave is, actually, in the majority. That is on the basis that the pre-referendum polls overestimated the remain vote, so must still be overestimating. OK, if you say so.

Irish border. There is a problem. It is not true to say that there will only be a problem if the EU or Ireland creates one. There has to be a physical border, at which goods and people can be checked. With the Irish border, that is for all practical purposes impossible. Without such controls, where is the undertaking, under Brexit, to "take back control of our borders". There are no border controls between Ireland and France so, in the absence of border controls between Ireland and Northern Ireland, there would be no control points between the UK and the EU. Think of all those migrants waiting in France to enter the UK. Job done! All they need is a few coaches, and Bob's your Uncle.

Can you find another EU land border anywhere with no border controls? It cannot be done. As soon as border controls were introduced (assuming anyone could envisage a way to implement them) the Belfast Agreement (AKA the Good Friday Agreement) would be breached. That has potentially the most serious results for the UK of all, whoever actually tried to close the border. You may imagine that the UK would be able to hold up its hands and walk off saying "it weren't me mate", but no-one is going to wear that, are they? They'll all know that it was the Brexiters in the UK who voted for the border to be closed.

At that point you will no longer be dealing with state entities, you will be dealing with a number of militias who answer only to themselves. If you think you're a bit hard and unyielding, you ain't seen nothing. You must have been in at least your 30's when the Belfast Agreement was signed, so you must be aware of it - and of what had been going on in the UK and Ulster since 1974.


There was never a hard customs border between Ireland and NI before.........Nor when the Irish joined the EU a year earlier than us in 73 ............

The EU are just creating a problem for their own ends .........

But you voted to "take back control" of "our" borders didn't you? That was one of the silly soundbites trumpeted by the Brexit camp. None of 'em told you about the Good Friday Agreement and tonight Ireland left UK Gov in no doubt at all over where they stand on that. That is sacrosanct. Meddle with that and there will be serious trouble.

No it never was "the EU creating a problem"........you lot created it because 1) you were ill informed and 2) naive. Brexiters have got to start taking responsibility for the mess you've created instead of blaming the EU all the time because you've had all this pointed out to you numerous times, just the same as Brian did over migration but you haven't taken the slightest bit of notice.


There's no mention of the border in the Good Friday agreement ..............

For the simple reason there never has been one ...........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday_Agreement

Belfast Agreement......pedant. Commonly known as GFA because it was drawn up on Good Friday.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-belfast-agreement


So where does it mention the border? ..............Pedant .........

Read the Agreement and stop being so bloody bone idle.
userBarryd999
Posted: 17 January 2019 4:48 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Looks like we gained that mystery 2% Dave was on about.

https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/motorhome-european-international-travel/73881-ferries-spain-uk-february-march-nearly-all-full.html

And in two days time even if not one person has changed their minds on Brexit the UK will have a majority of remainers.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/17/saturday-uk-remain-parliament-force-second-referendum

usermalc d
Posted: 17 January 2019 5:18 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 
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Barryd999 - 2019-01-17 4:48 PM



And in two days time even if not one person has changed their minds on Brexit the UK will have a majority of remainers.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/17/saturday-uk-remain-parliament-force-second-referendum




Still on your old bandwagon then Barry ( otherwise known as " grasping at straws " ).

You will just have to hope that not too many of us ' old '; remainers have died.

userBulletguy
Posted: 17 January 2019 6:01 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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malc d - 2019-01-17 5:18 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-17 4:48 PM



And in two days time even if not one person has changed their minds on Brexit the UK will have a majority of remainers.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/17/saturday-uk-remain-parliament-force-second-referendum




Still on your old bandwagon then Barry ( otherwise known as " grasping at straws " ).

You will just have to hope that not too many of us ' old '; remainers have died.


One sure fire way to sort that isn't there Malc? And Brexiters keep telling us they have nothing to fear from a better informed electorate on a peoples vote.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 17 January 2019 6:02 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-17 9:04 AM................................
So where does it mention the border? ..............Pedant .........

It doesn't in name, but this is the relevant bit:

SECURITY
1. The participants note that the development of a peaceful environment
on the basis of this agreement can and should mean a normalisation of
security arrangements and practices.
2. The British Government will make progress towards the objective of as
early a return as possible to normal security arrangements in Northern
Ireland, consistent with the level of threat and with a published overall
strategy, dealing with:
(i) the reduction of the numbers and role of the Armed Forces deployed
in Northern Ireland to levels compatible with a normal peaceful society;
(ii) the removal of security installations;
(iii) the removal of emergency powers in Northern Ireland; and
(iv) other measures appropriate to and compatible with a normal
peaceful society.

It is the reference to security installations in 2.(ii) that is taken to include border security. A load of fences and border checkpoints is all it needs. You have to take into account that all parties to the Belfast Agreement take the same view, which is why all state that there cannot be a "hard border".
userpelmetman
Posted: 17 January 2019 10:56 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-17 6:02 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-17 9:04 AM................................
So where does it mention the border? ..............Pedant .........

It doesn't in name, but this is the relevant bit:

SECURITY
1. The participants note that the development of a peaceful environment
on the basis of this agreement can and should mean a normalisation of
security arrangements and practices.
2. The British Government will make progress towards the objective of as
early a return as possible to normal security arrangements in Northern
Ireland, consistent with the level of threat and with a published overall
strategy, dealing with:
(i) the reduction of the numbers and role of the Armed Forces deployed
in Northern Ireland to levels compatible with a normal peaceful society;
(ii) the removal of security installations;
(iii) the removal of emergency powers in Northern Ireland; and
(iv) other measures appropriate to and compatible with a normal
peaceful society.

It is the reference to security installations in 2.(ii) that is taken to include border security. A load of fences and border checkpoints is all it needs. You have to take into account that all parties to the Belfast Agreement take the same view, which is why all state that there cannot be a "hard border".


Where does it say "CUSTOMS"? .............

userBulletguy
Posted: 17 January 2019 11:20 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-17 10:56 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-17 6:02 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-17 9:04 AM................................
So where does it mention the border? ..............Pedant .........

It doesn't in name, but this is the relevant bit:

SECURITY
1. The participants note that the development of a peaceful environment
on the basis of this agreement can and should mean a normalisation of
security arrangements and practices.
2. The British Government will make progress towards the objective of as
early a return as possible to normal security arrangements in Northern
Ireland, consistent with the level of threat and with a published overall
strategy, dealing with:
(i) the reduction of the numbers and role of the Armed Forces deployed
in Northern Ireland to levels compatible with a normal peaceful society;
(ii) the removal of security installations;
(iii) the removal of emergency powers in Northern Ireland; and
(iv) other measures appropriate to and compatible with a normal
peaceful society.

It is the reference to security installations in 2.(ii) that is taken to include border security. A load of fences and border checkpoints is all it needs. You have to take into account that all parties to the Belfast Agreement take the same view, which is why all state that there cannot be a "hard border".


Where does it say "CUSTOMS"? .............

Oh FGS!! You're just being plain bloody obtuse now let alone downright thick. Here is a damn photograph of just one of the border controls back in the 90's. This was what the GFA got rid of.....none exist any longer apart from a few abandoned buildings.

https://euobserver.com/uk-referendum/141554
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 18 January 2019 8:16 AM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2019-01-17 10:56 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-17 6:02 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-17 9:04 AM................................
So where does it mention the border? ..............Pedant .........

It doesn't in name, but this is the relevant bit:

SECURITY
1. The participants note that the development of a peaceful environment
on the basis of this agreement can and should mean a normalisation of
security arrangements and practices.
2. The British Government will make progress towards the objective of as
early a return as possible to normal security arrangements in Northern
Ireland, consistent with the level of threat and with a published overall
strategy, dealing with:
(i) the reduction of the numbers and role of the Armed Forces deployed
in Northern Ireland to levels compatible with a normal peaceful society;
(ii) the removal of security installations;
(iii) the removal of emergency powers in Northern Ireland; and
(iv) other measures appropriate to and compatible with a normal
peaceful society.

It is the reference to security installations in 2.(ii) that is taken to include border security. A load of fences and border checkpoints is all it needs. You have to take into account that all parties to the Belfast Agreement take the same view, which is why all state that there cannot be a "hard border".


Where does it say "CUSTOMS"? .............

Go tell that to Sin Fein/IRA, and see what they say. While you're there, ask them about the Common Travel Area, and see what they say about that. Wakey, wakey!
userpelmetman
Posted: 18 January 2019 9:54 AM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24194
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Brian Kirby - 2019-01-18 8:16 AM

pelmetman - 2019-01-17 10:56 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-17 6:02 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-17 9:04 AM................................
So where does it mention the border? ..............Pedant .........

It doesn't in name, but this is the relevant bit:

SECURITY
1. The participants note that the development of a peaceful environment
on the basis of this agreement can and should mean a normalisation of
security arrangements and practices.
2. The British Government will make progress towards the objective of as
early a return as possible to normal security arrangements in Northern
Ireland, consistent with the level of threat and with a published overall
strategy, dealing with:
(i) the reduction of the numbers and role of the Armed Forces deployed
in Northern Ireland to levels compatible with a normal peaceful society;
(ii) the removal of security installations;
(iii) the removal of emergency powers in Northern Ireland; and
(iv) other measures appropriate to and compatible with a normal
peaceful society.

It is the reference to security installations in 2.(ii) that is taken to include border security. A load of fences and border checkpoints is all it needs. You have to take into account that all parties to the Belfast Agreement take the same view, which is why all state that there cannot be a "hard border".


Where does it say "CUSTOMS"? .............

Go tell that to Sin Fein/IRA, and see what they say. While you're there, ask them about the Common Travel Area, and see what they say about that. Wakey, wakey!


Its not me that needs to wake up Brian ........

Your Sin Fein/IRA scaremongering is more Remoaner piffle .......

You do know that the Catholics will likely outnumber the protestants by 2021?...... the IRA has effectively Sh*gged their way to victory ........

So a united Ireland is only a few years away.......which means the only folk that will be rearming will be the UDA and UVF...............fortunately they will be Ireland's problem .........





Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-18 9:55 AM
userantony1969
Posted: 18 January 2019 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


The special one

Posts: 10850
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Location: Sunny Huddersfield


Bring those elections on ... Even with the shambles Mrs May has been in charge of the Tories according to a new YouGov poll are on 41% ... Labour drop to 35% ... Shouldnt Labour be miles ahead ??? ... Jeremy , a gift from the gods if your a Tory
userBarryd999
Posted: 18 January 2019 10:44 PM
Subject: RE: May elections?..........
 


Forum master

Posts: 4772
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Location: North Yorkshire Dales - Kontiki 640 Hank the Tank


antony1969 - 2019-01-18 3:09 PM

Bring those elections on ... Even with the shambles Mrs May has been in charge of the Tories according to a new YouGov poll are on 41% ... Labour drop to 35% ... Shouldnt Labour be miles ahead ??? ... Jeremy , a gift from the gods if your a Tory


weren't Labour 20 points behind in the run up to the 2017 elections though? That didnt turn out too well for the Tories in the end.
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