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More jobs now at risk over Brexit
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userBrian Kirby
Posted: 8 March 2019 6:21 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...…………….........

I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit .......
Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? ..........

I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do.

What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires.

However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £K130 figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid.

This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country.

But back to Brexit, if you look at the per capita GDP of the UK, and compare that to the per capita GDP of other countries, you will see why, despite Britain being the fifth largest economy in the world, so many of its working population are dissatisfied with their quality of life. It comes out way down the list (24th, 25th or 29th - depending on who's counting), which means our labour is not used as efficiently as others, so we inevitably get paid less than others. (Germany - the fourth largest economy - for example, ranks 15th, 16th, or 19th, which is why they have a higher standard of living than us Brits).

With Brexit, those unhappy people have been persuaded that if we leave the EU, the money we/they save will make them, and our public services, better off. Unfortunately, all economic forecasts show that the reverse will be true, and that the average Joe will be worse off and, with government revenues falling, so will our public services.

Brexiters like to think that the threat of them becoming angry if Brexit is thwarted is a good enough reason to ensure it is Delivered. The threat of the angry mob.

IMO, that anger is as nothing beside the anger that will be released as those who voted for Brexit in the expectation of a better quality of life and better public services, begin to find themselves getting worse off, and their public services still deteriorating, precisely because of Brexit. Then, when they discover that the option of being able to re-join the EU will leave them even worse off than they have become post-Brexit, there will be a truly angry mob.

That is why people tend to say that those who voted to leave did not fully realise what they were voting for: it is the assumption that no normal person would vote to be worse off, or to have worse public services. The rich may well feel that they can afford being worse off if it gives them the intangible benefits they value, but the rest of us will feel the pinch in our pockets. That, IMO, is when the poo will really hit the fan!
userpelmetman
Posted: 8 March 2019 6:35 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 6:21 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...…………….........

I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit .......
Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? ..........

I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do.

What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires.

However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £K130 figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid.

This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country.



Which is why its irrelevant because it assumes none of Honda's employees get another job ...........

Given the current state of the UK jobs market I don't see that as a problem .........

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 8 March 2019 7:11 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2019-03-08 6:35 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 6:21 PM
pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...…………….........
I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit .......
Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? ..........

I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do.
What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires.
However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £K130 figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid.
This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country.

Which is why its irrelevant because it assumes none of Honda's employees get another job ...........
Given the current state of the UK jobs market I don't see that as a problem .........

The relevance of that depends on whether they actually can get alternative jobs. It also depends on whether they can get equivalent jobs. Do you know where those equivalent, replacement, jobs will be found?

Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda.

Me, I think some folk will lose their homes, their kids' educations will be disrupted, they will have to move elsewhere, probably from houses that have lost value with the local fall in demand. Ask them if they think it'll all be alright on the night. I think you'd get rather different answers.
userpelmetman
Posted: 8 March 2019 7:20 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM

The relevance of that depends on whether they actually can get alternative jobs. It also depends on whether they can get equivalent jobs. Do you know where those equivalent, replacement, jobs will be found?

.


https://smallbusinessprices.co.uk/uk-skills-shortage/

..........

userpelmetman
Posted: 8 March 2019 8:19 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM


Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda.



What has Brexit got to do with Honda closing their factory? .........

If it was about access to the EU surely they'd move production too Turkey ..........

But they're not are they?.........They're stopping production there to .......

They've closed their factory because Japan now has a FTA with the EU, so they no longer need to have factories anywhere near the EU .............



Edited by pelmetman 2019-03-08 8:22 PM
userFast Pat
Posted: 8 March 2019 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 
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pelmetman - 2019-03-08 8:19 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM


Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda.



What has Brexit got to do with Honda closing their factory? .........

If it was about access to the EU surely they'd move production too Turkey ..........

But they're not are they?.........They're stopping production there to .......

They've closed their factory because Japan now has a FTA with the EU, so they no longer need to have factories anywhere near the EU .............



See now you're just getting silly. We have established beyond ANY doubt based on Hondas own statements that the production of their current model will stop in Turkey, BUT the production facility remains open.

When you post crap like this it becomes apparent that all your interested in doing is playing "oh no its not" and not having meaningful discussions.
userpelmetman
Posted: 8 March 2019 8:33 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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Fast Pat - 2019-03-08 8:28 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-08 8:19 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM


Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda.



What has Brexit got to do with Honda closing their factory? .........

If it was about access to the EU surely they'd move production too Turkey ..........

But they're not are they?.........They're stopping production there to .......

They've closed their factory because Japan now has a FTA with the EU, so they no longer need to have factories anywhere near the EU .............



See now you're just getting silly. We have established beyond ANY doubt based on Hondas own statements that the production of their current model will stop in Turkey, BUT the production facility remains open.

When you post crap like this it becomes apparent that all your interested in doing is playing "oh no its not" and not having meaningful discussions.


Where have they said "The production facility remains open"? ..........

Perhaps you can supply a link? ...........

userFast Pat
Posted: 8 March 2019 8:46 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 
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pelmetman - 2019-03-08 8:33 PM

Fast Pat - 2019-03-08 8:28 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-08 8:19 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM


Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda.



What has Brexit got to do with Honda closing their factory? .........

If it was about access to the EU surely they'd move production too Turkey ..........

But they're not are they?.........They're stopping production there to .......

They've closed their factory because Japan now has a FTA with the EU, so they no longer need to have factories anywhere near the EU .............



See now you're just getting silly. We have established beyond ANY doubt based on Hondas own statements that the production of their current model will stop in Turkey, BUT the production facility remains open.

When you post crap like this it becomes apparent that all your interested in doing is playing "oh no its not" and not having meaningful discussions.


Where have they said "The production facility remains open"? ..........

Perhaps you can supply a link? ...........



Dementia got to you again?
https://www.dailysabah.com/automotive/2019/02/19/honda-says-its-not-leaving-turkey

userpelmetman
Posted: 8 March 2019 8:51 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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Fast Pat - 2019-03-08 8:46 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-08 8:33 PM

Fast Pat - 2019-03-08 8:28 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-08 8:19 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM


Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda.



What has Brexit got to do with Honda closing their factory? .........

If it was about access to the EU surely they'd move production too Turkey ..........

But they're not are they?.........They're stopping production there to .......

They've closed their factory because Japan now has a FTA with the EU, so they no longer need to have factories anywhere near the EU .............



See now you're just getting silly. We have established beyond ANY doubt based on Hondas own statements that the production of their current model will stop in Turkey, BUT the production facility remains open.

When you post crap like this it becomes apparent that all your interested in doing is playing "oh no its not" and not having meaningful discussions.


Where have they said "The production facility remains open"? ..........

Perhaps you can supply a link? ...........



Dementia got to you again?
https://www.dailysabah.com/automotive/2019/02/19/honda-says-its-not-leaving-turkey



So where does it say "The production facility remains open?" ...........

Best you make an appointment with the quack as your seeing things that aren't there ........





Edited by pelmetman 2019-03-08 8:56 PM
userBulletguy
Posted: 8 March 2019 8:58 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 6:21 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...…………….........

I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit .......
Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? ..........

I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do.

What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires.

However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £130K figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid.

This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country.

Not sure he's "got that" even now as he's decided to go off on a tangent about Honda and unemployment.


But back to Brexit, if you look at the per capita GDP of the UK, and compare that to the per capita GDP of other countries, you will see why, despite Britain being the fifth largest economy in the world, so many of its working population are dissatisfied with their quality of life. It comes out way down the list (24th, 25th or 29th - depending on who's counting), which means our labour is not used as efficiently as others, so we inevitably get paid less than others. (Germany - the fourth largest economy - for example, ranks 15th, 16th, or 19th, which is why they have a higher standard of living than us Brits).

And it's noticeably higher too


Brexiters like to think that the threat of them becoming angry if Brexit is thwarted is a good enough reason to ensure it is Delivered. The threat of the angry mob.

IMO, that anger is as nothing beside the anger that will be released as those who voted for Brexit in the expectation of a better quality of life and better public services, begin to find themselves getting worse off, and their public services still deteriorating, precisely because of Brexit. Then, when they discover that the option of being able to re-join the EU will leave them even worse off than they have become post-Brexit, there will be a truly angry mob.

Wonderfully summed up by this guy;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6RvjHgyeeg

That is why people tend to say that those who voted to leave did not fully realise what they were voting for: it is the assumption that no normal person would vote to be worse off, or to have worse public services. The rich may well feel that they can afford being worse off if it gives them the intangible benefits they value, but the rest of us will feel the pinch in our pockets. That, IMO, is when the poo will really hit the fan!

And why disaster capitalists like Rees-Mogg are desperately anxious to get it pushed through. People like him will profit in the multi millions whilst Pelmet scours scrapyards for spares to keep his old tub running.
userpelmetman
Posted: 8 March 2019 9:13 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-03-08 8:58 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 6:21 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...…………….........

I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit .......
Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? ..........

I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do.

What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires.

However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £130K figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid.

This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country.

Not sure he's "got that" even now as he's decided to go off on a tangent about Honda and unemployment.



Tangent?...........You're the one who introduced the 130k figure .........

userpelmetman
Posted: 8 March 2019 9:15 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-03-08 8:58 PM
And why disaster capitalists like Rees-Mogg are desperately anxious to get it pushed through. People like him will profit in the multi millions whilst Pelmet scours scrapyards for spares to keep his old tub running.


You mean an old tub like yours? ...........

Cant say I've had any trouble getting spares ........



userBulletguy
Posted: 8 March 2019 9:16 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-08 6:35 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 6:21 PM
pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...…………….........
I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit .......
Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? ..........

I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do.
What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires.
However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £K130 figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid.
This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country.

Which is why its irrelevant because it assumes none of Honda's employees get another job ...........
Given the current state of the UK jobs market I don't see that as a problem .........

The relevance of that depends on whether they actually can get alternative jobs. It also depends on whether they can get equivalent jobs. Do you know where those equivalent, replacement, jobs will be found?

Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda.

Me, I think some folk will lose their homes, their kids' educations will be disrupted, they will have to move elsewhere, probably from houses that have lost value with the local fall in demand. Ask them if they think it'll all be alright on the night. I think you'd get rather different answers.

Many C4 news spoke to were long term service employees too having worked only in that industry, some from school leaving age so knew no other type of work. Many have their entire families employed there. Skilled and semi-skilled auto workers with mortgages to pay so loss of family homes is a certainty and disruption of their childrens education, inevitable. Not to mention the many thousands of employees in the supply chain to Honda whose jobs will also go.

It's a disgrace brought upon a nation by irrational sheer bloody minded selfishness. I'd challenge any Brexiter to go and stand outside the factory and tell employees "you can get another job".
userBulletguy
Posted: 8 March 2019 9:23 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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pelmetman - 2019-03-08 9:13 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-08 8:58 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 6:21 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...…………….........

I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit .......
Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? ..........

I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do.

What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires.

However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £130K figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid.

This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country.

Not sure he's "got that" even now as he's decided to go off on a tangent about Honda and unemployment.



Tangent?...........You're the one who introduced the 130k figure .........

For the umpteenth time......no i didn't. It's in the damn report if only you would read it FGS.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2017/06/uk-automotive-achieves-record-turnover-77-5-billion-marking-seventh-consecutive-year-growth/



(SMMT report.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments SMMT report.JPG (63KB - 9 downloads)
userpelmetman
Posted: 9 March 2019 7:42 AM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


Walks with the gods

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Bulletguy - 2019-03-08 9:23 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-08 9:13 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-08 8:58 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 6:21 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...…………….........

I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit .......
Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? ..........

I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do.

What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires.

However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £130K figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid.

This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country.

Not sure he's "got that" even now as he's decided to go off on a tangent about Honda and unemployment.



Tangent?...........You're the one who introduced the 130k figure .........

For the umpteenth time......no i didn't. It's in the damn report if only you would read it FGS.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2017/06/uk-automotive-achieves-record-turnover-77-5-billion-marking-seventh-consecutive-year-growth/


That's interesting .........It appears the majority of those employed in the car industry are not actually involved in manufacturing ..........

So the UK is in a much better position than Germany to weather the global downturn in car sales, and the inevitable disruption due to the change over to electric ...........



Edited by pelmetman 2019-03-09 7:46 AM
userBulletguy
Posted: 9 March 2019 2:54 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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pelmetman - 2019-03-09 7:42 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-08 9:23 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-08 9:13 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-08 8:58 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 6:21 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...…………….........

I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit .......
Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? ..........

I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do.

What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires.

However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £130K figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid.

This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country.

Not sure he's "got that" even now as he's decided to go off on a tangent about Honda and unemployment.



Tangent?...........You're the one who introduced the 130k figure .........

For the umpteenth time......no i didn't. It's in the damn report if only you would read it FGS.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2017/06/uk-automotive-achieves-record-turnover-77-5-billion-marking-seventh-consecutive-year-growth/


That's interesting .........It appears the majority of those employed in the car industry are not actually involved in manufacturing ..........

So the UK is in a much better position than Germany to weather the global downturn in car sales, and the inevitable disruption due to the change over to electric ...........

Ok i get it, by trying to 'save face' this is your way of finally admitting you'd got it hopelessly wrong over the £130k per employee generated to the economy, despite having it explained very clearly to you numerous times.

Now you've made a "new discovery" (to you) that thousands more people are involved in the automotive industry whilst not actually manufacturing. Well colour me surprised. Did you not notice or spare a thought over how many other jobs in addition to the 3,500 are going to be lost by the closure of the Honda plant at Swindon?

Who makes the wiring looms, lights, upholstery, tyres, wheels, nuts, bolts, screws, washers etc etc.....all of which have to be delivered? All companies both large and small with employees reliant on an income to support a family, children in education, pay a mortgage, all of whom were carving out a decent honest lifestyle for themselves by working hard......until you trashed it.....and for what exactly?

Who manned the factory canteens, supplied and delivered the food? Who maintained all the production line machinery? Who cleaned the floors and windows? Who serviced and maintained all their office equipment?

Many of those people will also have lived locally, spent money in the town where lots of other businesses benefited.

You seem to think such manic self destruction of trashing our own manufacturing industries is somehow going to 'get back' at Germany. I never thought it possible for such utterly insane rubbish to be spouted and your determination to continue on a race to the bottom reflects the sheer madness of Brexit.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 9 March 2019 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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pelmetman - 2019-03-08 7:20 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM
The relevance of that depends on whether they actually can get alternative jobs. It also depends on whether they can get equivalent jobs. Do you know where those equivalent, replacement, jobs will be found? .

https://smallbusinessprices.co.uk/uk-skills-shortage/
..........

Very pretty Dave but, as ever, I assume you didn't read it? Where is the demand for the kinds of skills required in a car factory? I couldn't see any.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 9 March 2019 3:34 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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pelmetman - 2019-03-08 8:19 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM
Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda.

What has Brexit got to do with Honda closing their factory? .........
If it was about access to the EU surely they'd move production too Turkey ..........
But they're not are they?.........They're stopping production there to .......
They've closed their factory because Japan now has a FTA with the EU, so they no longer need to have factories anywhere near the EU .............

Quite possibly, but then, if you were Honda and you already had a factory in UK, plus another in Turkey, and you then got an FTA with the EU, why would you want to close those two plants (or, more strictly, close one and mothball the other)? After all, the alternative of shipping cars half way round the world is not without cost. Then again, why would you mothball the Turkish plant but close the UK plant, instead of the other way around? Even from deep inside your Brexit redoubt, you must surely recognise that Brexit won't have made the Swindon plant the more attractive of the two as the one to keep open. It is not Turkey's trade agreement with the EU that is being disrupted, is it?

The impact of Brexit on the UK won't generally be like a firework display, with firms re-locating or closing with a fanfare of bangs and crashes, it will be a slow decline marked by whimpers and attrition. It will be death by 1,000 cuts, not the coup de gras that you are looking for.

When you get to Spain, and sit on that sandy beach, spare a thought for all those the grains of sand. They once used to be part of a mountain range, but over time were worn away by rain, ice, snow and wind. Nothing violent, just millions of years of weather. Grinding down the UK economy won't take that long, but the process will be analogous: a bit gone here, another bit there, a consequence elsewhere, and so on, piece by piece, over the next few decades.

The complete fiasco of the way your favourite government has handled, and continues to handle, just the withdrawal deal bit, reveals all to the rest of the world. Government is in total disarray, there is no discernable cabinet, no sense of direction, and the mother of parliaments is transfixed and leaderless. And yet, there are fantasists still dreaming aloud of new trade deals being forged around the world, with everyone knocking on our door, begging us just to raise an eyebrow in their direction, so that they can rush to our shores to do our bidding. I realise you are surrounded by the evidence of this, so I won't waste time trying to disabuse you! But the accumulating evidence should by now be giving pause for thought about your assumptions on how quick and easy it would all be.
userpelmetman
Posted: 10 March 2019 8:39 AM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-03-09 3:34 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-08 8:19 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM
Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda.

What has Brexit got to do with Honda closing their factory? .........
If it was about access to the EU surely they'd move production too Turkey ..........
But they're not are they?.........They're stopping production there to .......
They've closed their factory because Japan now has a FTA with the EU, so they no longer need to have factories anywhere near the EU .............

Quite possibly, but then, if you were Honda and you already had a factory in UK, plus another in Turkey, and you then got an FTA with the EU, why would you want to close those two plants (or, more strictly, close one and mothball the other)? After all, the alternative of shipping cars half way round the world is not without cost.


I suspect it's a dam sight cheaper than maintaining a factory in a foreign country ..........

Especially as they prolly have to do that for the rest of the world where they flog their motors ........

I suspect what will happen is that all motor manufactures will shrink their operations abroad over the next few years, as they face the double whammy of recession and change to electrification/hybrid technology ......
userpelmetman
Posted: 10 March 2019 9:28 AM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-03-09 2:54 PM

Who makes the wiring looms, lights, upholstery, tyres, wheels, nuts, bolts, screws, washers etc etc.....all of which have to be delivered? .


Seeing as you spend a lot of time moaning about just in time deliveries .........

Somewhere in.....The EU? ......

So its not just British workers who are being dumped on by Honda because of Japans FTA with the EU is it??? ......
userBulletguy
Posted: 10 March 2019 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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pelmetman - 2019-03-10 9:28 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-09 2:54 PM

Who makes the wiring looms, lights, upholstery, tyres, wheels, nuts, bolts, screws, washers etc etc.....all of which have to be delivered? .


Seeing as you spend a lot of time moaning about just in time deliveries .........

Somewhere in.....The EU? ......

So its not just British workers who are being dumped on by Honda because of Japans FTA with the EU is it??? ......

Honda workers, to use your term of "being dumped on" were actually "dumped on" by the foolishness of Brexit, not Honda, so don't try shifting blame to those not responsible. Let's be perfectly clear, Brexit was entirely to blame for the closure at Swindon.

For some obscure reason you're attempting to minimise the huge amount of damage done at Swindon by flippantly suggesting most workers aren't involved in production as though that excuses it. Whether this is borne from feelings of guilt or plain ignorance, i'm not sure. There are thousands of other 'non-production' employees who will be affected, a number of examples i listed, and to imply they will be in Europe is naive to say the least. It's not just the factory alone.....you have to account for the huge collateral damage it's caused.
userpelmetman
Posted: 10 March 2019 5:25 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-03-10 5:12 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-10 9:28 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-09 2:54 PM

Who makes the wiring looms, lights, upholstery, tyres, wheels, nuts, bolts, screws, washers etc etc.....all of which have to be delivered? .


Seeing as you spend a lot of time moaning about just in time deliveries .........

Somewhere in.....The EU? ......

So its not just British workers who are being dumped on by Honda because of Japans FTA with the EU is it??? ......

Honda workers, to use your term of "being dumped on" were actually "dumped on" by the foolishness of Brexit, not Honda, so don't try shifting blame to those not responsible. Let's be perfectly clear, Brexit was entirely to blame for the closure at Swindon.

For some obscure reason you're attempting to minimise the huge amount of damage done at Swindon by flippantly suggesting most workers aren't involved in production as though that excuses it. Whether this is borne from feelings of guilt or plain ignorance, i'm not sure. There are thousands of other 'non-production' employees who will be affected, a number of examples i listed, and to imply they will be in Europe is naive to say the least. It's not just the factory alone.....you have to account for the huge collateral damage it's caused.


Rubbish ..........

There is only one reason Honda have closed their factory........and its not Brexit despite your pathetic attempts to link it .........

So stuff that up your FTA pipe and smoke it .........

userBulletguy
Posted: 10 March 2019 5:40 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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pelmetman - 2019-03-10 5:25 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-10 5:12 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-10 9:28 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-09 2:54 PM

Who makes the wiring looms, lights, upholstery, tyres, wheels, nuts, bolts, screws, washers etc etc.....all of which have to be delivered? .


Seeing as you spend a lot of time moaning about just in time deliveries .........

Somewhere in.....The EU? ......

So its not just British workers who are being dumped on by Honda because of Japans FTA with the EU is it??? ......

Honda workers, to use your term of "being dumped on" were actually "dumped on" by the foolishness of Brexit, not Honda, so don't try shifting blame to those not responsible. Let's be perfectly clear, Brexit was entirely to blame for the closure at Swindon.

For some obscure reason you're attempting to minimise the huge amount of damage done at Swindon by flippantly suggesting most workers aren't involved in production as though that excuses it. Whether this is borne from feelings of guilt or plain ignorance, i'm not sure. There are thousands of other 'non-production' employees who will be affected, a number of examples i listed, and to imply they will be in Europe is naive to say the least. It's not just the factory alone.....you have to account for the huge collateral damage it's caused.


Rubbish ..........

There is only one reason Honda have closed their factory........and its not Brexit despite your pathetic attempts to link it .........

Then why don't you state what this "one reason" is rather than waffle garbage making inane comments?
userpelmetman
Posted: 10 March 2019 5:48 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-03-10 5:40 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-10 5:25 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-10 5:12 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-10 9:28 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-09 2:54 PM

Who makes the wiring looms, lights, upholstery, tyres, wheels, nuts, bolts, screws, washers etc etc.....all of which have to be delivered? .


Seeing as you spend a lot of time moaning about just in time deliveries .........

Somewhere in.....The EU? ......

So its not just British workers who are being dumped on by Honda because of Japans FTA with the EU is it??? ......

Honda workers, to use your term of "being dumped on" were actually "dumped on" by the foolishness of Brexit, not Honda, so don't try shifting blame to those not responsible. Let's be perfectly clear, Brexit was entirely to blame for the closure at Swindon.

For some obscure reason you're attempting to minimise the huge amount of damage done at Swindon by flippantly suggesting most workers aren't involved in production as though that excuses it. Whether this is borne from feelings of guilt or plain ignorance, i'm not sure. There are thousands of other 'non-production' employees who will be affected, a number of examples i listed, and to imply they will be in Europe is naive to say the least. It's not just the factory alone.....you have to account for the huge collateral damage it's caused.


Rubbish ..........

There is only one reason Honda have closed their factory........and its not Brexit despite your pathetic attempts to link it .........

Then why don't you state what this "one reason" is rather than waffle garbage making inane comments?


FTA .........

userBulletguy
Posted: 10 March 2019 6:34 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 9216
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pelmetman - 2019-03-10 5:48 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-10 5:40 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-10 5:25 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-10 5:12 PM

pelmetman - 2019-03-10 9:28 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-03-09 2:54 PM

Who makes the wiring looms, lights, upholstery, tyres, wheels, nuts, bolts, screws, washers etc etc.....all of which have to be delivered? .


Seeing as you spend a lot of time moaning about just in time deliveries .........

Somewhere in.....The EU? ......

So its not just British workers who are being dumped on by Honda because of Japans FTA with the EU is it??? ......

Honda workers, to use your term of "being dumped on" were actually "dumped on" by the foolishness of Brexit, not Honda, so don't try shifting blame to those not responsible. Let's be perfectly clear, Brexit was entirely to blame for the closure at Swindon.

For some obscure reason you're attempting to minimise the huge amount of damage done at Swindon by flippantly suggesting most workers aren't involved in production as though that excuses it. Whether this is borne from feelings of guilt or plain ignorance, i'm not sure. There are thousands of other 'non-production' employees who will be affected, a number of examples i listed, and to imply they will be in Europe is naive to say the least. It's not just the factory alone.....you have to account for the huge collateral damage it's caused.


Rubbish ..........

There is only one reason Honda have closed their factory........and its not Brexit despite your pathetic attempts to link it .........

Then why don't you state what this "one reason" is rather than waffle garbage making inane comments?


FTA .........

Which is exactly what UK had.......until you daft lot threw them down the pan.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 11 March 2019 8:42 AM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2019-03-10 8:39 AM...………………...I suspect it's a dam sight cheaper than maintaining a factory in a foreign country ..........

Especially as they prolly have to do that for the rest of the world where they flog their motors ........

I suspect what will happen is that all motor manufactures will shrink their operations abroad over the next few years, as they face the double whammy of recession and change to electrification/hybrid technology ......

You suspect Dave. Because it suits your agenda.

So, suspect this:

I suspect it's a dam sight cheaper than maintaining a factory in a foreign country, especially when that country has voted to place both tariff, and non-tariff, barriers between itself and its major trading market, so making that country a more expensive place in which to make, and from which to sell, cars.
userpelmetman
Posted: 11 March 2019 8:52 AM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24800
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Brian Kirby - 2019-03-11 8:42 AM

pelmetman - 2019-03-10 8:39 AM...………………...I suspect it's a dam sight cheaper than maintaining a factory in a foreign country ..........

Especially as they prolly have to do that for the rest of the world where they flog their motors ........

I suspect what will happen is that all motor manufactures will shrink their operations abroad over the next few years, as they face the double whammy of recession and change to electrification/hybrid technology ......

You suspect Dave. Because it suits your agenda.

So, suspect this:

I suspect it's a dam sight cheaper than maintaining a factory in a foreign country, especially when that country has voted to place both tariff, and non-tariff, barriers between itself and its major trading market, so making that country a more expensive place in which to make, and from which to sell, cars.


If your suspicions had any validity then Honda would be relocating to the EU would they not? ........

So its your Remoaner agenda that's suspect not us Brexiteers ........

userFast Pat
Posted: 11 March 2019 3:21 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 
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pelmetman - 2019-03-11 8:52 AM

Brian Kirby - 2019-03-11 8:42 AM

pelmetman - 2019-03-10 8:39 AM...………………...I suspect it's a dam sight cheaper than maintaining a factory in a foreign country ..........

Especially as they prolly have to do that for the rest of the world where they flog their motors ........

I suspect what will happen is that all motor manufactures will shrink their operations abroad over the next few years, as they face the double whammy of recession and change to electrification/hybrid technology ......

You suspect Dave. Because it suits your agenda.

So, suspect this:

I suspect it's a dam sight cheaper than maintaining a factory in a foreign country, especially when that country has voted to place both tariff, and non-tariff, barriers between itself and its major trading market, so making that country a more expensive place in which to make, and from which to sell, cars.


If your suspicions had any validity then Honda would be relocating to the EU would they not? ........

So its your Remoaner agenda that's suspect not us Brexiteers ........



They don't need too, they've got their "maintained facility" in Turkey which has a FTA for vehicles with the EU, as you've already been told.
userBulletguy
Posted: 11 March 2019 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 9216
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pelmetman - 2019-03-11 8:52 AM

Brian Kirby - 2019-03-11 8:42 AM

pelmetman - 2019-03-10 8:39 AM...………………...I suspect it's a dam sight cheaper than maintaining a factory in a foreign country ..........

Especially as they prolly have to do that for the rest of the world where they flog their motors ........

I suspect what will happen is that all motor manufactures will shrink their operations abroad over the next few years, as they face the double whammy of recession and change to electrification/hybrid technology ......

You suspect Dave. Because it suits your agenda.

So, suspect this:

I suspect it's a dam sight cheaper than maintaining a factory in a foreign country, especially when that country has voted to place both tariff, and non-tariff, barriers between itself and its major trading market, so making that country a more expensive place in which to make, and from which to sell, cars.


If your suspicions had any validity then Honda would be relocating to the EU would they not? ........

So its your Remoaner agenda that's suspect not us Brexiteers ........

Honda will manufacture anywhere which has fta's with the EU.....the loss of which from UK due to Brexit was the reason for them closing the Swindon plant as you yourself eventually admitted. They have a production plant in Japan and of course they have fta's. They don't need to relocate to an EU country any more than what Dyson in Singapore does.

If your suspicions had any validity.....then Dyson would relocate to UK wouldn't he? Has it dawned yet why he didn't?
userFast Pat
Posted: 11 March 2019 3:42 PM
Subject: RE: More jobs now at risk over Brexit
 
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More https://www.ft.com/content/d4ac54e6-4310-11e9-b168-96a37d002cd3


That could trigger a further rush of Japanese company moves in coming weeks, the tax experts added. The Netherlands Foreign Investment Agency said in January that more than 250 companies were in discussions about Brexit-driven relocations.

Most of those Japanese companies moving headquarters were convinced to invest in the UK on the promise that it would be a stable, legally predictable gateway to Europe, with many basing themselves in the UK for decades.
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