NHS Dentist's

[michele]

Hi can anyone help I need to find out what the exemption is for students and people in full time Education.

 

My Daughter is in an Apprentership where by she earns the grand total of £100 a week if she is lucky . Most weeks its £70 by the time she has done her petrol for the week she has £20 left .

 

She has a cracked tooth the Dentist said that she has to pay .She explained that she was in effect a full time student in an apprentership he didnt like it and aid he wont see her again unless she pays .

 

I have tried to google the NHS Dentist service to see what is Exempt and what is not and I can not find anything that helps.

She cant afford this we will end up paying seems to me the country has gone mad ...Heroine addicts no job freee legal aid work for a living getting a skill which the goverment always advocate and you are penalised .

 

The right hand dont know what the left hand does .

Because Ema is means tested she didnt even get that so we pay for everything No wonder I am bitter . If we have to pay then obviously we will but at the moment i want to read its a matter of principle..

 

can you help us

[ROON]

Hi Michelle, Not sure from the posting. Is the dentist saying she has to pay because HE ISN'T AN NHS DENTIST SO THE RULES DON'T APPLY TO HIM, or is he an NHS dentist and he says you got it wrong?

 

I'm not sure what the situation is there. My daughter's (and my) dentist opted out of the NHS system and so we have to pay regardless of the fact that if we went to an NHS dentist we wouldn't. The problem is .... there are no NHS dentists here with vacancies for patients!!!! The system stinks.

 

We are back to those of us that have worked all our lives cannot get drugs/treatments because the Gov. cannot afford it (!) whilst others just get given everything they ask for. I agree it stinks. Sorry not much help to you.

[michele]

Our Dentist is NHS he said she has to pay because she is not classed as full time Education.

 

He may be well withinh his rights and if so we pay .I would just like to read about what is classed as fulltime Education its not her fault that her learning is on the job because of the fact that she choose a career that involves having to go out and about in order to learn .

 

I would like to see them shoe a horse in the lecture room .

I do understand that maybe she may be classed as a wage earner seems the govnerment want it always below& Exempt from the Minimum wage but yet able to pay her way .

Good job she lives at home then isnt it .It just all seems a con to me and no wonder people cheat the system seems you get nothing for being good hard working people trying to learn dying skills that they are so quickly to advocate that people do ....Skill & trade for life huh thats if you survive the poverty ..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[malc d]

Michele

I understand there is an HC1 form with which people on low incomes can claim help with prescription and dental NHS charges.

Have a look on Dept. of Health website.

They quote a phone number to obtain a form : 0845 610 1112.

(Some dentists 'stock' these forms as well).

 

I just typed ' dental charges exempt' into Google and the DH site was listed.

 

Best of luck with it

 

:-|

p.s. I assume that anyone being paid for what they do is not thought to be in 'full time education'

 

 

 

:-(

[BGD]

Google is the best advice to almost any such questions.

 

 

 

 

In your case Michelle, sorry, but your daughter is clearly NOT in full time education.

 

She's undertaking what I assume is a "Modern Apprentiship"; thus she is working for an employer by choice and earning a wage, but (I imagine) is also getting day release from her job to go to College to do the theory part of her learning.

In reality, that's actually a job, just like any other job.

 

The other thing that many people are not actually clear on is that Dentists have NEVER been part of the NHS in the UK.

They have ALWAYS been private contractors, but many agreed in the past also to do work on behalf of the NHS for a fixed fees.

When the Labour Government refused to increase those fixed fees a few years ago, the vast majoority of these (self-employed) people said OK, then we'll not treat any people who want us the re-charge their costs back to the NHS any more. We'll charge the customer directly instead.

 

 

Has she tried ringing round private dentists in your arae to get quotes on a repair? It is a competitive market nowadays, but I think she's gonna have to pay for her own treatment, as she's earning.

 

 

 

 

[CliveH]

Hi Michelle

 

Have a look at;-

 

http://www.nhs.uk/Healthcosts/Pages/Dentalcosts.aspx

 

This may help.

 

 

As regards the NHS Dentist situation - it is a mess

 

General Practitioners (that definition applies to both Doctors and Dentists in General Practice, but over time we have tended to apply the GP label just to Doctors) have always been self employed independent contractors to the NHS since its inception in 1948.

 

This was because those already running practices in 1948 did not want to give that up and join this new untried NHS.

 

So they were offered the carrot of remaining self employed but being able to benefit from membership of the superb NHS Pension scheme. This was achieved via the parliamentary statutory concession A9 that allowed a self employed GP to belong to an employer’s pension scheme.

 

About 20 years ago the numpties tried to insist that dentists run their practice on what we could call "civil service" parameters and the Dentists got just a tad upset. The numpties thought that the Dentists would never leave the NHS because to do so would effectively loose them their NHS pension as the Numpties assumed the scheme was an 1/80th "Final Salary" scheme for dentists (and GP Doctors) as it was for NHS employees.

 

Their thinking was that a Dentists on £100,000 (nice round figure!) a year would expect after 40 years service (40/80) to get a pension of 40/80ths of £100000 = £50,000 a year.

 

But if they left the NHS and therefore had NO NHS income in the last few years of their working life then they would get 40/80th of nothing.

 

BUT - the numpties did not understand the true nature of the scheme as it applied under the A9 concession. And that was (and still is) that as self-employed independent contractors to the NHS Dentists accrued benefits very differently and each year the worked in the NHS provided them with essentially a "packet of benefits" calculated each year as their uprated dynamised career earnings.

 

So rather than a Dentist leaving the NHS and loosing their NHS pension if they reduced their "Final Salary", Dentists actually could leave the NHS and their NHS pension was protected because each year was treated individually under the A9 concession.

 

So the result of this humpty nightmare was that we no longer have NHS dentistry in the UK.

 

And we came very close to loosing NHS Doctors in General Practice as well but in the end the nuptials had to capitulate and offer the GP Doctors a new contract (well two actually PMS and GMS2) that reflected sensible demands on their time and a fair package of benefits.

 

Some would say it went too far on the Out of Hours provision and I would tend to agree. But the nuptials offered GP's no Saturday/Sunday working and no evening "On call" for just a 6% reduction in income.

 

And of course all GP's jumped at that so the numpties now have to employ Doctors from other EU countries as well as take on firms that offer out of ours cover at a cost equivalent of about 15%!!! :-S :-S :-S

 

And please bear in mind folks that this is your tax-payers money they are shelling out!! - and the net result is they pay the GP’s 6% less so they can then pay other Doctors 15% for providing a worse OOH’s service than we had before. Hmmmmmmmmmm! - Clever >:-)

 

The common denominator is that the numpties in charge of updating the contracts did not understand what they were doing.

 

That is why we have virtually no NHS Dentistry in the UK and we are unlikely to ever see it back.

 

My advice is to get your daughter to look at one of the private schemes that seem to work well and are not that costly compared to what the NHS charges for a check up and any work done. :-S

[CliveH]

Oooer!

 

Spell check madness - for Humpties and Nuptials - read numpties (lol)

[michele]

Guys everyone ,

 

Thanks alot for all the help what an unfair system not because she is my daughter but because we think that anyone in this kind of skill and other skills of course should be exempt .

 

BGD you are correct jodhi is attending college not on single days though they do 6 months in the field and then they have to go back and live in residential college for 4 weeks at each 6 month period . They do four weeks and at each stage if they cant do what it is they are supposed to do like make shoes tongs pritchels and various differnt farrier tools along with all the academic work like vetinary stuff which is very intense as they have to be better than a vet as they have to know the whole leg down and all the foot the ins and outs .and have to remember that they dont only shoe horses its anything with a hoof Goats Camels and so on.

 

What an unfair system what I suppose grates me is you loose the childrens family allowance not that it was worth having and she got no EMA because we are means tested and it seems unfair that if you are a junkie or a drunk or never work a day in a life you get it all free .

 

The system is bent and it stinks to the hilt looks like we will pay our way again ..

 

[ROON]

Oh Michelle, what a bummer then! It is still worth doing what Graham said though and you might just get some help with the exemption form, but I'm not clever enough to know what :'(

 

Just for information in case it does help when looking round ... my dentist charges me a yearly fee which I pay on monthly direct debit..... this does not give me any treatment, and when I need treatment I have to pay in full .... it merely 'keeps me on his books', so it is money for nothing. My daughter, at college part time too, has just stopped paying because when she then went with a broken cap which needed replacing he asked for £1000. How can youngsters possibly afford that when only working part time (on top of the monthly d/d). She is in a quandry now too.

 

Hope you find something soon. Joy

[malc d]

ROON - 2008-06-07 10:24 AM

 

Oh Michelle, what a bummer then! It is still worth doing what Graham said though and you might just get some help with the exemption form, but I'm not clever enough to know what :'(

 

Just for information in case it does help when looking round ... my dentist charges me a yearly fee which I pay on monthly direct debit..... this does not give me any treatment, and when I need treatment I have to pay in full .... it merely 'keeps me on his books', so it is money for nothing. My daughter, at college part time too, has just stopped paying because when she then went with a broken cap which needed replacing he asked for £1000. How can youngsters possibly afford that when only working part time (on top of the monthly d/d). She is in a quandry now too.

 

Hope you find something soon. Joy

 

 

 

If your daughter is on low pay ( plus all the other youngsters ) I would think they are entitled to help with dental fees, and that is what the HC1 form is for.

Not sure what 'Graham' suggested, but why not give the phone number that I mentioned above a ring and see what the situation is ?

 

Best of luck with it.

 

:-|

[maggyd]

ROON - 2008-06-07 10:24 AM

 

Oh Michelle, what a bummer then! It is still worth doing what Graham said though and you might just get some help with the exemption form, but I'm not clever enough to know what :'(

 

Just for information in case it does help when looking round ... my dentist charges me a yearly fee which I pay on monthly direct debit..... this does not give me any treatment, and when I need treatment I have to pay in full .... it merely 'keeps me on his books', so it is money for nothing. My daughter, at college part time too, has just stopped paying because when she then went with a broken cap which needed replacing he asked for £1000. How can youngsters possibly afford that when only working part time (on top of the monthly d/d). She is in a quandry now too.

 

Hope you find something soon. Joy

 

Roon that sounds to me as if you are a private patient, I would tell him that you want treating on the National Health or find a Dentist that takes N.H patients! I see my Dentist every 6 months I pay for my treatment but a NHS rates.

 

Michelle I know where you'r coming from and it makes me angry too, its not right that someone that wont work and is on the Dole can get free everything. I only found out recently that my youngest Son had pulled one of his teeth out himself just after he was Married and he had 2 step-daughters and another one on the way He said he couldnt afford to go!

[malc d]

Michele/Roon

I have now come across a website where you can request an HC1 form online:

www.ppa.org.uk/ppa/HC1_form_intro.htm

 

They also give a phone number : 0845 850 1166 for requesting a form.

 

It says this form may also be available at your doctors, or at Social Security offices.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ROON]

Thanks Malc. Grateful for your trouble. I actually have one of those but the dentist doesn't seem to recognise it. He just states he is private now ... sort of like it or lump it. I think my situation is slightly different to Michele's daughter in that I am sort of stuck with him because he dealt with me through the chemotherapy period when it was affecting my gums and he knows my history, making me loathe to trust anyone new. I hope it helps Michele though.

 

Maggy, there are no vacancies with the one NHS dentist in the town that isn't known as The Torturer's Apprentice .. :-( ... that one had a few last time I phoned. And, apparently he is now thinking of retiring and the practice closing down (the good one that is). The situation is bad but I think it is a post code problem again, some areas worse than others.

[michele]

Ditto Malc ,

 

Gonna get me one of them and phone on Monday ;-)

[maggyd]

ROON - 2008-06-07 6:16 PM

 

Thanks Malc. Grateful for your trouble. I actually have one of those but the dentist doesn't seem to recognise it. He just states he is private now ... sort of like it or lump it. I think my situation is slightly different to Michele's daughter in that I am sort of stuck with him because he dealt with me through the chemotherapy period when it was affecting my gums and he knows my history, making me loathe to trust anyone new. I hope it helps Michele though.

 

Maggy, there are no vacancies with the one NHS dentist in the town that isn't known as The Torturer's Apprentice .. :-( ... that one had a few last time I phoned. And, apparently he is now thinking of retiring and the practice closing down (the good one that is). The situation is bad but I think it is a post code problem again, some areas worse than others.

 

Its scanderlous I know! in my area its not too bad but they have all got greedy and are going private I just feel sorry for people caught in the middle like Michelles daughter that are not well off but dont just qualify for free treatment! I seem to remember something about being able to get treatment at a hospital if you cant find a dentist..Another thought if there is a teaching Dental Hospital in the area you can get free treatment (I think), its worth enquireing anyway.

[BGD]

Just one other long-shot thought.

 

at 1st this might sound daft, but if you do the maths, it might save some people quite a bit of money.

 

Over her ein Spain there's no such thing as NHS funded dentistry.

It's always been a private industry, with self-employed dentists.

In the Costa Blanca region there are hundreds of dentists of all EU nationalities offering what i reckon is fantastic service, at very reasonable prices (competition is a wonderful thing!).

Our dentist is actually Spanish, but speaks perfect English and trained in all the latest techniques in both the UK and USA.

 

As an example of her prices, a basic filling, including x-rays, injections, and perfect colour matching of the white filling material, costs 50 euros. (approx 35 quid)

Making and fitting a crown for a rear tooth for Kathy cost, I think, 300 euros in total.

They all offer free checkups, and fixed price quotes for any work they recommnd you have done, and you can shop araound to get a better price too.

 

So, just an idea........if you have a fair bit of dental work that needs doing, you could hop on a plane, have a few days hols herabouts in a cheap hotel, and get all you teeth sorted, for probably a lot less money in total than just going along to a dentist in the UK.

 

 

 

[ROON]

Good idea.... Get the spare bedroom ready, Michele and I are on the way... :-D

 

Before any of the cheeky ones pop on, I mean for our dentistry work. *-)

[BGD]

ROON - 2008-06-08 12:53 PM

 

Good idea.... Get the spare bedroom ready, Michele and I are on the way... :-D

 

Before any of the cheeky ones pop on, I mean for our dentistry work. *-)

 

3 girlies and me in the same house......fantastic!!

 

And the weathger's really hot here, so no need to bring too many clothes........

 

B-)

 

[colin]

I only managed to get a NHS dentist last year, for over 10years back to time of last tory gov there has been a lack of NHS dentists in this area, of cause press only managed to pick up on it a few years ago. The NHS charges are listed here http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_083817

A lot cheaper than private but you must go for regular check ups or get taken off books, as my teeth are in good order when going private never went more than once a year